-152 votes

Paul's followers, not his son, will be the undoing of the Revolution

I am continually amazed at how shallow-minded and stubborn Paul's followers can be, while at the same time promoting such an intelligent philosophy. Without a better understanding of history and how politics work in the U.S., I fear this movement will soon be dead in the water.

Political movements have come and gone throughout this nation's history, some failed miserably, while others left an indelible mark on national politics, transforming political parties and the hearts and minds of America's citizens. The question for Paul supporters is: which would we like the Ron Paul Revolution to become?

To answer that question, we need to accept a few realities:

1) There will always be only TWO political parties that a majority of American's are willing to support. Their names may change over time, but there will always only be two.

2) Even if by some miracle a third party candidate is elected to the Presidency, without allies in the other branches of government, they will not get much done and be percieved as a failure, hurting thier parties influence.

Therefore we should keep in mind that were Paul to have become President at this point in time, it would likely be a disaster. It's odd that our movement claims to want small government, but seems to expect as President, Paul will somehow be able (and should be able) to single-handedly "save the country".

3) No political party has ever been replaced by one radically different. New major political parties were formed out of relatively minor differences with the one they eventually replaced.

This is the most important thing to realize. This is why - since our movement is ideologically closer to the Republican Party - our charge is to reshape that Party. Not to overthrow it, or campaign for the Libertarian Party, which is currently too ideologically different from the two major parties to replace either at this time.

4) If we continue to work against the "establishment" of the Republican party, expect our influence to wane, not grow. Ron Paul is not owed very much on account of his delegates and being the last man standing - Romney has already secured the nomination. And the Republican party does not need Paul's supporters as much as we would like to believe.

I hope everyone in the movement begins to realize that we can't go on believing that if we make enough noise we will eventually be heard. Of course we have to keep trying to influence others and maintain our principles, but we also need to realize that most of the things we want must be gained through traditional political means. Therefore, we must make concessions in order to expect any in return.

If we work with the Republican Party, they will work with us.

Rand Paul knew there would be immense backlash by his father's supporters for endorsing Romney, he did it anyway because it's what needed to be done for the movement. And don't fool yourselves into believing it was without Ron's blessing. Ron can't endorse Romney because doing so would severly threaten the movement's credibility, and likely cause it to fall apart.

As a result of endorsing Romney, Rand will recieve concessions - the Revolution will recieve concessions from the Republican Party. Rand's endorsement will gain the movement legitimacy as part of the Republican base.

Remember that movements like the Christian Right, the Liberal left, etc did not gain recognition by (and at times control of) their respective parties by distancing themselves from the establishment - they did it by slowly influencing and working with them.

I understand the "Nobody but Paul" sentiment, but it's self-defeating. Ron Paul will not be President of the United States. Even if he gains 20% as a write-in candidate, he will end up little more than a minor curiosity in news-cycle the day after the election.

For those who believe we don't have enough time to transform the Republican Party through traditional means, you may be right. But there's no other way.

To summarize, here are four possible outcomes for the movement depending on whether or not we choose to join Rand in supporting Mitt Romney:

1) We support Romney, he wins, the Republican establishment grants the movement concessions for our support. The movement continues to grow.

2) We don't support Romney, he wins. The Republican party continues to ignore us, as our support had no bearing on his victory. The movement flounders.

3) We support Romney, he loses. The Republican establishment grants the movement concessions for our support. The movement continues to grow.

4) We don't support Romney, he loses. The Republican Party views his loss in part as a result of our lack of support, they continue to ignore us and our reputation is stained. We lose the chance at regaining influence in 2016, the movement flounders.

Clearly, win or lose, supporting Romney helps the Revolution.

I understand many of you believe there is not good in supporting him, in trying to influence the Republican Party, that the lesser of two evils is still evil, on and on. But I hope the majority of us see the value and promise of playing the long game.

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I get it! this is a joke post

right?

Are you kidding me: we make concessions and then they support us?

I don't see this working on a local level. We have Ron Paul people who have played this crumby game of "getting involved with the GOP" running for office right now and our state GOP isn't endorsing, supporting, or doing anything other than promoting established losers and planning fundraisers like clambakes and pigroasts. Its all about the money for them and THAT is what attracted our local GOP to the Ron Paul contingency in the first place - they saw us raising money and wanted a piece of that action. In the end though they really don't like, or want us there.

I can't see it being any different on a national scale. Point being: why compromise at this point? Seriously.

hahahaha

"Without a better understanding of history and how politics work in the U.S., I fear this movement will soon be dead in the water."

That is hilarious. Liberty supporters need a better understanding of history and politics?!?! Funny stuff.

"Villains wear many masks, but none as dangerous as the mask of virtue." - Washington Irvin

How about we just make it

How about we just make it clear. If anyone supports Romney, they have abandoned ship. However, we don't need to be unmerciful. Despite conforming to the Romney side, we can accept them back to the REAL revolution, we just need to be extra careful with them.

Listen, just because Rand jumped off the plank, doesn't mean you must go with him. I can't understand the logic behind your post. I think most are seeing past it.

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
http://www.thethirdangelsmessage.com/wordpress/should-christ...

Supporting Romney may help YOUR Revolution

but not the one I am part of. Oh, and I am playing the long game -- as long as it takes to keep the likes of Romney & Obama & Biden & McCain & Cheney & Clinton & others like them out of power. And if I don't live long enough to see it happen, my children will.

Magna est veritas, et prevalebit. Truth is most powerful, and will ultimately prevail.

The Conformist

is full of sh$t and he has the down votes to back it up....No Brains.... No balls! That makes him a waste of space and part of the problem....screw your head on strait or shut up and get out of the way....

"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."
Samuel Adams

Rand is not part of the Liberty Movement anymore.

He now carries Romney's water and soon he will start campaigning for him. You're correct, he will not bring down the liberty movement because he isn't part of it.

I'm honestly dumbfounded on

I'm honestly dumbfounded on the amount of time you spend exaggerating the narrow mindedness of some Paul supporters, yet at the very same time you continue to belittle anyone who's opinion doesn't reflect your own views. You say you don't want Paul supporters to be hostile towards people with different opinions. Then I ask you, why in every reply I've glanced through do you either call someone a fool, label them an idealist or try and degrade their opinion? Isn't that a paradox coming from someone who complains about other people not being open minded?

I agree with some of your post, and in terms of historical context a lot of your points are valid. However on that same notion, the movements you've referenced had a very different political climate surrounding them at their peak. We're now living in a time where Conservative democrats are labeled traitors, and liberal republicans are considered R.I.N.O's. There's very little room for a movement to penetrate either party, considering the polarization that has taken place over the past two decades, especially in the Bush and Obama administrations.

Also I remember you completely marginalized someone's post as "Doom and Gloom", when they brought up a completely valid point, that the country doesn't have time for a movement to penetrate one of the major political parties, a point which actually has a lot of merit to it. We're on the brink of having billions of dollars sent to Syria, we're teetering towards war in Iran, our markets are waiting for the inevitable collapse of the Euro and our debt could very well be approaching 20 trillion under a Romney/Obama administration, not to even mention the impending Government shutdown fiasco.

It may sound "Doom and Gloom", but when put into context these are the realities we face at this crossroad. You, who advocated so strongly for Paul supporters being accepting of other peoples opinions, should theoretically be able to understand why gradual infiltration won't appeal to a majority of the supporters. It's not because they're hopeless idealist or don't have an understanding of history but rather they're much more pessimistic, on whether this country can survive 10 more years of gradual infiltration when we already have one foot of the cliff.

Paul supports can be a bit melodramatic, but it's in their nature. However I do wonder where the leadership of the movement will come from, considering Paul's inevitable retirement. There's two answers I've always validated, Rand or Johnson. The problem with Rand is people view him as a traitor to the movement whiles people distrust Johnson for reasons I don't really understand.

Wow, look at me I've went off on a tangent. So let me end this by saying, the thread maker needs to be opened to disagreements others have with his views, whiles a lot of Paul supporters need to be more accepting to people who carry similar views but different plans of actions. And also Paul supporters need to be supportive of either Rand or Johnson, because like it or not this movement will be at an impasse once Paul retires and it'll be up to us to choose a leader, and a senator or a governor who carry 90% of Paul's views isn't a bad a starting point.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

-Dwight D.

THIS IS WHAT RAND PAUL VOTED FOR

MONSANTO's FOOD MONOPOLY!

I do not want to eat GMO's and I do not want a company like Monsanto to get a monopoly on the food supply. For years now Monsanto and a few other companies have taken seeds that came from Nature in to the laboratory and genetically altered them. They then get a patent on these seeds. They own them and nobody else can own their seeds. Then they go out and buy up heirloom seed companies. They burn and destroy these seeds. SEEDS ARE GONE FOREVER! So gradually they are getting a stranglehold on the food supply. They are getting laws passed that limit organic farmers from staying in business as well as family farms. Even growing your own vegetables or fruits then sharing with your neighbor is being restricted. More and more laws are being passed prohibiting growers from saving their seeds for next years planting. Why? Because they want it all. YES THEY WANT TO OWN EVERY SEED, EVERY PLANT AND EVERY TREE. The end result is they can then charge what they want and if we don't pay? WE DON'T EAT!
They are now mowing to eliminate all organic farming. If you don't know the difference then you should learn what you can about it.

Did anyone see the movie "Total Recall" with Arnold Schwarsneger. Where he went to Mars and the dictator on Mars cut off the air supply to control the population.

Do you see the correlation? Do you want them to be able to cut off the food supply if we don't pay whatever they want or behave the way they want or they cut off the food supply?

There is already monopolization of the water supply. Soon there will be wars fought over water.

Last but not least is that GMO's are of questionable quality. There used to be thousand of varieties of potatoes now we are down to a few dozen. Sort of like the news media that used to be owned by hundreds are now down to abut a half a dozen corporations.

IS THIS WHAT WE WANT?

Well this is what Rand Paul voted for. HE IS A CORPORATIST PLAIN AND SIMPLE! IT LOOKS LIKE BIG AGRA HAS HIM IN THEIR POCKET. RAND PAUL is not fighting for our right to know what is in our food.

Have you ever heard of full disclosure? GMO's producers simply do not want to disclose what is in their product. WHY?
BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE DO NOT WANT IT!

This is the bigger picture.

AS YOU CAN SEE, RAND PAUL IS AGAINST THE REVOLUTION.

We were fooled by Rand Paul. He was never one of us!

Rand Paul is NO Ron Paul!

First of all..

I have no part In any "political movement"

NY I just down voted this hunk of bull s----

I'm getting sick of the freakin apologies for what Rand did. Hey conformist. If it wasn't for all the people your putting down.. Ron Paul wouldn't have the following he has. These people your crying about have built the liberty movement. Not your whining. So take your thirty weeks of apologies and cry in your bathroom and not on here. These people are the best followers of Dr. Paul you will find. I am honored to be associated with them.. If you can't take it go to Romney's site. They will welcome you there.. They full of people that cant take the heat! We work on Ideas. And do not let the freakin establishment push us around. Rand or whomever else have to prove themselves to us... get it? to us! Not us proving ourselves to them... We are not conformists here ... can't you tell that? This is a site of individuals who are NON_CONFORMISTS!!!!

It's time! Rand Paul 2016!

"Truth, Justice, and the American Way!"

LOL did i down vote this already?

because nothing happens when i mouse-over and i don't remember this post...um..er "topic"

then again, i usually down vote this guy on sight.

nonsense

We did not support McCain. McCain lost. The movement continued to grow. Duh.

We weren't then in the

We weren't then in the position we are now. This movement needs to seriously think about where it's going because if we don't come up with a plan of action it could easily fall apart and disappear after this election. The only thing giving us any legitimacy at this point is Ron Paul, and he's lost the nomination and will be retiring. I am merely expressing my opinion that the wisest thing to do is become more mainstream, not hope the mainstream will come to us.

Sellout !

..................

"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."
Samuel Adams

I will say

that all the infighting and divisiveness over the last couple of weeks does indicate that Ron's supporters will be the death of this movement.
So much hatred and anger directed at almost anyone that has a point of view. Lots of new members here that seem to be very intent on causing problems. I use to open the DP first thing in the morning, now I find myself dreading it because of the mean spirited posts by "new" people. I love when new folks post that such and such should be removed or banned. That sure doesn't sound like freedom or liberty to me.

Formerly rprevolutionist

This is definitely "Off Topic"...

..and with 110 down votes, I would hope we can eventually send it where it belongs.

"Truth is an absolute defense to the charge of paranoia."

No.

Romney will lose the Election if he is GOP Nominee. And he is NO friend to liberty. Fact.

Getting to the real point

I couldn`t agree more once again we are given the choice that is no choice and all I have to say to the establishment on both sides(LOL) is stick it where the sun don`t shine! NO WAY WILL I EVER VOTE FOR ROMNEY EVERRRRRRRRRRRRR !!!!!!!!! And this movement is only growing not going away,we have a lot to do and we have just started to crush these statist scum,so lets come together and fight together and win this war to gain our LIBERTY!!!!!!!!!!!

In Liberty Dan
Only Ron Paul 2012

This is a horrible post.

Horrible logic. The main problem with this movement is people like you.

Oh please elaborate, I need a

Oh please elaborate, I need a good laugh.

Compromise much???

Compromise much???

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".
--Voltaire

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown

Hey Conformist, Newsflash:WE are the influence!

This influence you say we need so much, WE are the influence. We didnt get this far by bending over for the man, we got this far by showing up, educating, outnumbering, out voting, and by being organized and informed. We are the machine that turns lazy, hypnotized, apathetic, confused Americans into awake patriots ready to take their country back. Pandering to evil does nothing but give evil more power. We are here to take evil down, not pour it cocktail and hope it plays nice.

~Ron Paul 2012~

Liberty and Justice for All!

Screw the GOP

I am not interested in being buddies with the fascist war mongering cons. I want to destroy the GOP and rebuild it in Dr. Paul's image. I will NEVER vote for MittWitt rmoney. NEVER! Count me as a NO vote.

It's great that you feel that

It's great that you feel that way, have fun affecting NO change whatsoever.

-99?

.

5 yrs of DP......

and this one takes the cake for the all time dumbest post. Not even close.

The r3volution will continue to open minds and inspire action

If you are claiming to be one

If you are claiming to be one of those 'open minds', while at the same time claiming this is a dumb article, I think you're a bit confused.

SteveMT's picture

This post will be at -1,000 in no time.

Make a Daily Romney or a Daily Rand site and see how many visits there are in a week. You would be able to count them on both hands. This kind of thinking is retrograde, inverse logic, like borrowing money to get out of debt. If logical arguments don't convince people, then should we start making illogical ones? No, 1,000 times no.

Go back to the establishment

Go back to the establishment and tell them you were unsuccessful and, unfortunately, they're going to need to sign your unemployment papers.