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Jack Hunter: "Why Rand Was Right to Endorse Romney"

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I agree elviejo

Thank you Jack Hunter, it was a very brilliant assessment you have made. Rand still has my support, no matter how many down votes I get.


I can understand Jack thinking this way, he has always had that tone in his voice that tells me he follows the flow. I am considering starting up my own show on the internet, but I will not compromise the sake of liberty for any progressive candidate. I will NOT vote for Mitt Romney, I will NOT give in to the establishment over my principles.

"It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace-- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
- Patrick Henry

Fight on getting delegates, at the convention, wage war. Stop every platform the establishment wants, if given the chance, vote Paul.

WOW part 2

I wanted to add a couple more quotes from Henry's famous speech:

"No man thinks more highly than I do of the patriotism, as well as abilities, of the very worthy gentlemen who have just addressed the House. But different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely and without reserve. This is no time for ceremony. The questing before the House is one of awful moment to this country. For my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery; and in proportion to the magnitude of the subject ought to be the freedom of the debate. It is only in this way that we can hope to arrive at truth, and fulfill the great responsibility which we hold to God and our country. Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings.
Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it...."

"...They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable--and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come...."
- Patrick Henry

He was a very wise man for the sake of liberty.

I choose to believe Hunter's argument.

The alternative is just too unpalatable to consider.

Quinquagenarians for Ron Paul! Who says that you can't teach old dogs new tricks?

Living in denial has it's perks?

What is the difference from the people who voted for Obama and still support him because they could not accept they've been duped?

I'm just not ready to condemn Rand based on this one action.

I don't believe he would betray his father or the Liberty movement. It will take a lot more than this to convince me. If this means I am in denial, so be it. I think everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt. As we judge so shall we be judged.

Quinquagenarians for Ron Paul! Who says that you can't teach old dogs new tricks?

I can only speak for myself

but I and I think most others who have worked hard have been led to believe that the Dr was going for the title. "No compromise" and consistency was what attracted many of us to him. We're tired of "a little torture and unconstitutional wars in order to stop terrorism". I mean the April moneybomb was named "In it to win" and when supporters have said "No one but Paul" all throughout the campaign I don't think they were referring to Rand :)

If Ron has a hand in this (I have a hard time thinking he doesn't know), the only way I'm ok with this move is if he addresses his followers right now and says he himself will not endorse Romney, not before the general election anyhow.

Everyone have their personal threshold I guess, but imagine hanging upside-down in some dungeon, your family is on DHS's assassination list by mistake and the IRS have taken all your property. Will you be thinking "Well... at least we audited the Fed?" :)

SANTORUM comment today----what a schmuck!


He insults you & me in this article. What a collosal jerk.

WE are the GOP now. doesn't

WE are the GOP now.

doesn't it make sense to endorse the candidate?

If we were the GOP...

then Ron Paul would be GOP nominee.

If my need to be RIGHT is greater than my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle

okay, we WILL be the GOP, as

okay, we WILL be the GOP, as in, the GOP will be a liberty-constitutional party in the near future.

Alex Jones Is Wrong As I Was..... This Is Great Strategy!

What Rand Paul said was just words, he has no freaking love for Romualan. This was strictly political... NOTHING MORE!

Can't you guys see it? Romulan got what he wanted, an endorsement..We got a future presidential candidate in 2016.

It's just a freaking game. Rand will never betray the rEVOLution nor his dad..

In it to win!

Get on board!...We are winning and our movement is growing in leaps and bounds...

Stay engaged... PLEASE!!

The nominee has not been announced... The delegates will decide that in Tampa..Let the world think Romulan is the nominee, we know better..Keep fighting for all the delegates we can get..I'm still betting on a brokered convention...Romulan is not in yet...

Jack Hunter has brilliantly laid it out..I love you jack.. This is perfect!

"The Southern Avenger" strikes again!


Time after time

Time after time Ron Paul said to wait until all of the delegates are selected prior to conceding and then, while conventions are still taking place, concedes. That is just not right.

So Rand said all along that he would endorse the GOP nominee, however there will be no nominee until the Tampa convention so his endorsement of Obama… er I mean Romney is just not right. Why didn’t he wait until after the Tampa convention was over to make his endorsement?

If I were a Ron Paul delegate to Tampa, would I invest $3000 + to go there and participate now that Ron has conceded? To what end? To try to influence a party platform that nobody reads or gives a damn about? To act-out and be disruptive and make a bad name for the liberty movement? I don’t think so. No, I would simply not attend.

I first voted for Ron Paul in 1988. Few in the r3volution can make that claim. I like what Ron Paul says however I do doubt his management skills. He allowed someone publishing his newsletter to publish racist crap and in the 2012 election cycle has loaded his campaign staff with members of his family who are incompetent and made many errors. I think that his judgment in who he has working for him is poor.

Many here say that the movement will go on, however most third party movements (yes, since RP’s philosophy is so far away from the mainstream GOP it is in essence a third party run) are built around an individual such as George Wallace or Ross Perot. Once the individual is out of the picture, the movement dies. I saw plenty of “RON PAUL” sings in the past 8 months but absolutely zero “LIBERTY” signs. If the movement is going to continue, we have to find a way to divorce ourselves from the cult of Ron Paul love and switch to a mode that is NOT based on a particular individual. That is our biggest challenge.

Your entire assessment is

Your entire assessment is based on the "fact" that Romney is the nominee. The nomination is not until Tampa. A lot can happen between now and August, both in terms of delegates and in terms of world events.

My opinion is that Ron Paul (or another liberty candidate) will not and should not be elected as president until the people demand it. Right now the majority of Americans do not understand the current threat to liberty and thus are not ready.

Most of the people on the DailyPaul are probably frustrated because they can't imagine waiting another 4 years. Given what has transpired over the past few years (NDAA, ObamaCare, Afghanistan, Syria, etc), the prospect for the future is not good. I am holding out hope that through the aggressive use of social media and other means to spread Ron's message, the public might somehow be ready for liberty by August. I look at Kony 2012 as an example of something that took over the internet. Perhaps this upcoming video could have similar success: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aylR2PLlziI&feature=plcp

If we have a concentrated effort to get out the message and show the need for Ron's philosophy of government, there is hope.

Ron Paul didnt betray

Ron Paul didnt betray anything. You fell for the Alex Jones disinfo campaign of using Rand Paul's treason to attack Ron Paul for doing....what? Admitting he didnt have enough delegates? LOL. Since when is truth treason? Alex jones is an attention wh0re and always has been.

Ventura 2012


Once the rest of the GOP field had been cleared out, and right at the high-water mark of his Campaign -- when he was drawing 7000+ size crowds and winning key States -- Ron Paul suddenly stopped and refused to challenge Mitt Romney-- HE DIDN'T EVEN TRY, and just folded-up his Campaign ..... with a bunch of weird and wimpy Email messages.

Ask yourself: Is this what Andrew Jackson would have done?

Then he even put out a message that totally sabatoged his own Delegate takeover strategy, by telling everyone at the convention to just be "respectful" to Mitt Romney.

The truth is Ron Paul was not trying to win. It was clear now, that He just likes giving speeches to College kids, and selling books, and that really isn't fighting.

We needed a fighter down the stretch, not a quitter.

Right at the time when he was winning States, and the Media even started reporting that he was winning States, and the rest of the GOP field had been cleared, and he was peeking with 7000+ sized rallies and big momemntum -- He said: whoops...never mind.... and just retreated.. He just clucked like a Chicken at the most critical point.

This was obviously a huge betrayal of his own Campaign, and the movement that he created.

He refused to go after Romney, and refused to capitalize on his own success, right at the most critical moment.

Simply put, none of this is

Simply put, none of this is remotely true.

Ventura 2012

Libertarians: Become Productive!

One of my criticisms of libertarians is that they don't take enough action, most importantly in their own lives. Most libertarians are poor as church mice. Not desiring to be a party to the state they disassociate from ANYTHING to do with the state. This leaves them with few options as the state practically controls everything. They become unproductive and unempowered. This only helps the state. Read further and I'll show that there's a way to deal with the state while becoming productive without compromising your libertarian principles.

At the moment, you can't become a medical doctor without dealing with the state. Becoming a physician, Rand has an intimate understanding of this.

Coercion does not equal consent. We're all coerced to do the bidding of the state constantly in our daily lives. The educational system, tax system, most regulations and licensure are all forced up on us with the threat of violence.

The key is to recognize that coercion is not consent and become a productive individual despite the coercion. The only way to keep sane through it all is to recognize the hoops for what they are: hoops.

For instance, do not confuse schooling with education, but jump through the schooling hurdles necessary in order to meet YOUR individual goals and to become productive. Do not refuse government programs (such as financial aid) that help you get ahead in your personal life - remember that they've robbed you and others of your wealth and inheritance, squandered the productivity of society, and left you with scraps (and anything you can get back for the extremely high price extorted from you is a good thing).

The liberty movement needs productive, skilled and educated individuals! Become productive for liberty! Condemn the state in your heart and mind! Do not use violence yourself; but if you're forced to use financial aid or social security, remember the high cost of it and that you're really being cheated!

Why's this topic relevant to this thread? Well, here's my analysis:

1. Ron Paul is truly uncompromising. He uses "politics" to educate, that's it. He's built an incredible movement possibly unparalleled in history.

2. Rand Paul has compromised. Calling a spade a spade. I think it's WONDERFUL that the liberty movement has called him out on this. This evidences ideologically purity and a principled base. The movement cannot and should not compromise, even if some of our leaders do.

3. Jack Hunter's argument, however, is that Rand Paul is coerced into this. Jack also calls us to get some perspective: it's not like Rand Paul is advocating for the Great Society or anything.

4. I am tentatively giving Rand the benefit of the doubt. I want to believe that although he can't say it, in his heart Rand condemns the state for coercing him into this. I believe that he believes this for liberty and the greater good. I suspect that he'll one day come out and vindicate Jack's analysis.

4. I will vote for Rand Paul when he's running for President. I don't know if I'll vote for Mittens, even if Rand is on the ticket... but I might if Rand is on the ticket. I have to think about this some more.

Mr. 1 hour and 46 mins:

What really annoys me is a brand new poster coming in and lecturing me about how I should just be a good Toby, and realize my slavery is inevitable so embrace it.

What you do not understand is that I have (any many others here)have the courage to OPENLY FIGHT the statism you profess is required to exist. Go along to get along. I rather be poor and free. If you do not openly fight evil and point at the hole where it exists, others will unwittingly fall in the hole. NO! I am not willing to bear the responsibiity for that.I prefer to loudly point out the hole and work hard to fill it until it no longer exists..

I refuse to lick the boots of the slave masters,and beg with my vote for the crumbs of prosperity and freedom from under the table of those who seem to have decided they are my betters. It past time to turn the tables and take it back.

If my need to be RIGHT is greater than my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle

Read the post before you comment.

Did you even read my post? If you did then you'd find out I'm friendly and I don't bite.

When did I insinuate that you shouldn't openly fight against statism? Where have I state that you should be a patsy or slave to the state?

The only substance of your post seems to center around the fact that I'm a new poster.

FYI, I've been reading dailypaul for a long time. This was just my first post. Should I be thanking you for your enlightening and generous welcome?

Sorry I lost it at you, here's why...

I read your post Sir. I really think you need to realize just how bad it is for small business in this country. I understand about being productive so as to be financially able to promote Liberty. Completely. I have been working at this my whole life, this productivity to which you refer. And the government find more and more ways to thwart me everyday.

I am the CEO of Corporation I founded and built from the ground up and know first hand about having to "jump thru hoops" and the licensing and myriad regulations required by the government, for us slaves, to do business. What I am hearing is that you suggest I continue to struggle to work within this opression, and try to navigate through the flotsam and jetsam of government regulations which are directly calculated to prevent me from being productive. After 30 years of that struggle it not only has lost it's appeal to me I have become righteous enraged businesswoman.

And I vented that rage on you!

The Bootlicking to which I am refering, is to continue to throw away my precious talents and time to work within a failed system,just to get along,to be productive. It won't work anymore, it is too late to work hard today so we can fight tomorrow. We are truly shackled like slave now when it comes to doing business in America.

Ever growing bureaucracy has made it virturally impossible to start a new bisiness, for a doctor to practice on his(or her) own, Architects and Engineers or builders to ply their trade without licking the boots of the state for a license, meet outrageous regulations, espensive fees and permits the list goes on and on and continues to grow every day...this is the opression to which I am refering.

Every license, every regulation the State creates ostentensibly to protect us, does not do that at all, they are obstacles that hurt the average small business and only benefit those who benefit from bloated bureaucracy. Some have a government job and they know if they can cause problems for me it justifies their existance, so they are assured job security by stirring up trouble that is unnecessary. Or multi-national corps that have the money and power to lobby for regulations and licensing to prevent competation from small business like me, because we just can't afford to fight them or meet rediculous regulations.

I apologize for corking off at you, and for that I take full responsibility. YOu, put your finger in a wound for me and I reacted in a manner to which I regret. I will be more civil in the future.


If my need to be RIGHT is greater than my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle

Licking the Boots

No one is asking you to lick anything.

All you have to do is be productive. Like a doctor, lawyer, Professor, Banker, Director.

Then you can use your power and influence to spread the message.

If you keep talking nonsense and scream 'Statism, Statism.., no one will listen.

BestRonPaulVideo, Totalitarianism http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIdBuK7_g3M#t=28m28s
BestVideo, Political Correctness http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz8pzG02oxU#t=19s
Bestbook, Totalitarianism, http://www.amazon.com/dp/0759672229

Thank You

Holy cow! Thank you Kumar, your synopsis of my post is spot on. I'm glad someone actually read my post before marking it negatively!

We're at a stage in this race where the men are separated from

the boys.

Practical politics

If you want to know about real practical politics, read this:


Jack is just stating the obvious

A lot of people seem to be taking this stuff way too personally. If more people started thinking of this movement as a business instead of a religious type movement then these strategic maneuvers would not be so shocking and appalling. They could be seen as necessary actions to get the movement to where it needs to go to succeed.

Rand's principles can still be intact while endorsing Romney. He couldn't even come up with a list of political policies they agreed upon.

Ron Paul supporters need to learn from the past and grow. Ron Paul has spent 30+ years trying to get his ideals accomplished all alone and he didn't get very far. He has been called crazy more often than not. Rand has seen the way his father was treated and how it didn't work in the end, so he has changed his strategy. Instead of being an outcast he is going to infiltrate the party from within.

This is exactly what the delegate strategy has been. Get into the GOP as a delegate and then use that position to elect Ron Paul. Rand is falling in line with the GOP to gain trust to change policies.

That is the business/political thing to do. His only mistake may have been doing it before Tampa, but he knows more about the political environment in DC then we do so I trust his judgement.

SteveMT's picture

This movement is far more than "a business" for me.

It IS more like a religion than it is a business. Business decisions are made swiftly, objectively, and many times cruelly and heartlessly. This movement has a heart, and it has a soul. How do you explain people working extra hours and going deeper into debt to make ANOTHER donation to Ron Paul? Do you think Rand Paul will garner this same kind of deeply felt, grassroots support as Ron Paul? Is Rand Paul going to have money bombs if he ever runs for president? Without emotional connections to the people, like Ron Paul has established, any Rand Paul campaign is going to go nowhere.

I can tell from the mass exodus

that a lot of Ron Paul supporters treat the liberty movement more like a religion, which is weird to me. I have a religion and I don't need another one. Maybe that is why I can view it with a clear head instead of with my heart on my sleeve.

This movement should not be about one person. The fact that many of you guys want it to be will only lead to failure. Liberty was brought to this country by a group of men and it won't get back to liberty without a group. One man can not do anything in this day and age. Ron Paul proved that. He was an outcast and he didn't accomplish liberty goals.

What he has done is stirred up a group of people and as a group we can accomplish the liberty goals. But if you all abandon the movement every time a strategic move is done that you don't agree with, then liberty is going to continue to fail.

We don't need to be emotionally invested in one person to still move liberty into a reality. We just need to be emotionally invested in the movement and do what needs to be done to make it a reality.

Get this crap off the front

Get this crap off the front page.

Jack you are so wrong!

Wow! Where to start? I've been in the Liberty Movement since before you were even born. Your smug analysis gives new vigor to the term condescending, as though us yokels out here just can't quite fathom your superior reasoning skills. Rand has gained nothing in the way of political capital, zero. The establishment GOP just neutered him. What Rand DID do is cut the movement off at the knees. He absolutely did NOT need to placate the liberal GOP leadership! In fact they are more likely hi-fiving and slapping each other on the back over how gullible he is. If, and for me it's a very big if, there was to be an endorsement by Rand, it should come after the nomination (presuming Mitt receives the nomination) having exhausted all means of securing the same for RON PAUL. I doubt you will find that the majority of Ron Paul supporters will be there for RAND in 2016 or even in his Senatorial campaign for that matter. As to compromise, only the person with the weaker position compromises, and always looses ground in so doing. Over the past 30 years we backed a man who NEVER compromised! He was the epitome of principle before politics. Now you want to forget those who brought you to the dance. History will not look kindly on this sell out! One more thought on Rand's newly acquired political capital; it's about as valuable as the Federal Reserve Notes in your wallet, and like those notes will be substantially devalued over time!

for me

RON PAUL is the GOLD STANDARD of politics, his value never changes; it's tied to the CONSTITUTION!