32 votes

The Libertarian Party is a Failed -"Liberty Advancing"-Strategy

by Treg D. Loyden

Why don't you Gary Johnson Libertarian Party people learn what we have learned?

That is, why don't you learn WHY WE CREATED the R3VOLUTION in the first place?

Please don't preach to us, read what we have to say. Then you will know why we DROPPED the LP as an effective STRATEGIC PATH to advance liberty.

Most of all, why don't you realize that WE in the r3VOLution are on to something?

Now get on your knees and confess these facts:

1) In just 5 short years WE in the r3VOLution have done more to advance Libertarian ideals than you in your 41 year old dusty LP.

2) We have OUT RAISED Money for our candidate than all 41 years of the LP has raised for ALL its candidates.

3) We have earned more VOTES for our candidate as well. Does that not say something to you? Not only did we do this, but we did this with one of your old 'throw-away' presidential candidates from 1988. We resurrected him from the bowels of the internet, resurrected his long forgotten speeches, resurrected him from your own obscurity. Think about that. And just imagine what we could do with Harry Browne if he was still alive today.

The ONLY reason why the Libertarian Party gets ANY national press today is because of what our decentralized networked r3VOLution has managed to do in 5 short years.

Please stop telling us to GO BACK to the LP and vote for GJ. This is a movement that the LP or DNC or GOP cannot co-opt. We are not couch potato Fox News simpletons, we are the real deal.

So please understand, its waste of time to spend our energies inside the libertarian party all for one man, Gary Johnson (who is not even a libertarian).

Here is the take away point from all of this: The LP is a STRATEGY. That is all it is. It is a strategy for advancing Liberty and Freedom.

And here is what you need to know, your strategy does not work. Like all the others before him, Gary Johnson will get .05% of the vote, that is it. It’s a failure by any measure.

So wake up, pay close attention to WHY WE STARTED THE r3VOLution in the first place.

Most of all, before asking us to vote for GJ, why don't you spend your time reading these essays first and then get back to us?

1) How Do We Know When the r3VOLution has Won?
http://www.dailypaul.com/236949/how-do-we-know-when-the-r3vo...

2) Its So Fun to Hijack the GOP
http://www.dailypaul.com/119891/its-so-fun-to-hijack-the-gop

3) What Do We Want? To Win! (And to be the Next DNC/GOP Party Bosses)
http://www.dailypaul.com/233240/what-do-we-want-to-win-and-t...

4) Why We Must Re-Brand Liberty Inside the 2-Party Duopoly
http://www.dailypaul.com/217383/go-libertarian-or-go-freedom...

5) Starting the LP Was a HUGE Strategic Mistake for Liberty
http://www.dailypaul.com/236042/starting-the-libertarian-par...

6) GJ & the LP is NOT the next battlefield for advancing Liberty. Here is the next Battlefield: http://www.dailypaul.com/238639/we-need-you-to-run-against-a...

7) Here is your call to arms by Israel Anderson! VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-KNWe-djXM&feature=share

8) Here is Ron Paul himself at the 23 min mark saying, infiltrate the 2-Party Duopoly system http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4n6gX...!

Treg

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Why don't YOU learn something?

This is NOT about personal glory, or even glory for Ron Paul, or even glory for the "r3voLution" - this is about CHANGING the system not ownership.

Nobody gets on their knees for ANYBODY. The Libertarians are working for the same thing as the "r3voLution".

If the Republicans give us a crap candidate (like Romney), we certainly can't vote for him. And it makes NO SENSE to write Ron Paul's name in when he isn't even a candidate and it will not be counted or recorded.

In THIS election Gary Johnson was the best choice.

Actually, your "hijack the Republican Party" strategy ...

... has been ongoing for more than 50 years. I'm sure that libertarian Republicans have raised far more money (ie, consumed more resources) and got far more votes than the Libertarian Party. They've even elected a couple of Republicans (in places where Barack Obama would be elected if he were the Republican candidate). But what liberties have you guys 'advanced' in that time? In what way is the country (or even the Republican Party) more libertarian than it was in 1962?

Just like your man Romney couldn't sell his product just by bashing Obama, the libertarian Republicans aren't going to sell their product just by bashing the LP.

-------------------
George Dance

Robbing Ron Paul
http://www.nolanchart.com/article9813-robbing-ron-paul.html

Ron Paul says INFILTRATE !

Here is Ron Paul himself at the 23 min mark saying, infiltrate the 2-Party Duopoly system http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4n6gX...!

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

Those with eyes let them see.

It's so blatantly obvious, you'd have to be a moron not to see that you're correct.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

This argument that the

This argument that the Libertarian party couldn't do anything to advance Liberty....

So did Ron Paul..little to nothing for 30 yrs...can anyone guess an XFACTOR.

the Fucking internet!

Yes once again innovation, technology, and production have given the human society the tools to evolve exponentially, the fact we all can discuss these issues real time,to make information accessible 24 hrs a day and visual audio tools is WHY LIBERTY HAS ADVANCED.

With out it most of us would not know Ron Paul or Austrian Economics without it.

The old paradigm and system is crumbling, its toward the future now, most people know something is wrong and corrupt it will only grow.

So if you bash the Libertarian party and GJ its has to be relevant to now and future tech.

Gary is not the best candidate but he listens and wants to learn. He knows Liberty is the way, we need to teach him how.It keeps a focal point for the Movement instead of fracturing and getting divided. Some will go GOP the rest will go Libertarian then years later we will combine under which one has the most potential. Democrats and progressives will never be GOP in masses, but they are open to Libertarian thats a fact.

POLITICS is a failed liberty-advancing strategy.

If your liberty depends on which way people vote, you have no liberty; at best, you may get a kindly master.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

Human Species is a POLITICAL species.

Politics rules the human race. Liberty can only be expressed THROUGH POLITICAL STRUCTURES.

Robinson Caruso, alone on the island, had no liberty. But add in his friend Friday, and suddenly "its political" on this two man island. Man is a social animal that lives inside POLITICAL STRUCTURES.

Either go find an island all to yourself, or join the human race.

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

Shall we dance?

Let me preface this by saying I've greatly enjoyed your posts over the years, Treg, and marked you down as a "friend" in my account, to keep track of them. I don't always agree with them, but they're worth reading.

Now let me get to THIS post, in which I intend to rip out your heart and eat it.

Ain't no human race, Treg. Just us human beans, each one of us an individual like and unlike all the others. Each one of us has his own brain and uses it to make his own choices about how he will deal with other people. To get the things he needs and wants from those other people, he can use three different methods: trade, emotional appeals, and force. Politics is not a fourth method; it's just force dressed up with flags and fancy uniforms.

It's entirely true that some people have always used force to get what they want from others. They have set themselves up as rulers and exercised different degrees of control over their fellows. It's also entirely true that other people have dealt with others peacefully as traders, or appealed to the generosity of others as beggars, without using force or fraud.

Now let's look at "politics rule the human race." It's true that some men have always tried to rule others, and likewise true that most people have submitted to being ruled. That, I suggest, has little to do with any hardwired "human nature," and everything to do with people being indoctrinated from an early age into the cult of authority-worship. Little kids learn that "right and wrong" are distinguished by "Mommy said so!" A little later, they learn that right and wrong depend on "God said so," in the Holy Book preferred by their parents. And then they go off to government school to learn that right and wrong are defined by teachers and "government." It's right to obey "the law," and it's wrong to "break the law" or to "take the law into your own hands." The law, of course is simply whatever politicians say it is. This cult of authority-worship is a purely superstitious belief that some men have a moral right give orders which others have a moral duty to obey. Those lowly others (the "common people") are not allowed to make their own moral judgments, like adults. Only the parents, priests and elite "lawmakers" can do that.

"Liberty can only be expressed THROUGH POLITICAL STRUCTURES." That has to be the most pathetic comment you've posted on the DP, ever. Liberty is the part of your life where you make your own choices, uncoerced by other people. Your liberty is the part of your life where no political restraints exist, and you are free to do as you will. "Politics" -- "government" -- is not about trade, or voluntary charity. It is institutionalized coercion. Contemplate Ludwig von Mises' distinction between "political economy" and "market economy." Your statement amounts to "We can only have liberty if we're not free." I would say it's just silly, but you're not a silly guy. So I figure you're very confused about your definitions here, both of "politics" and "liberty."

Man is free to choose the means by which he deals with other men. Trade and voluntary charity are the methods used by civilized people. Politics -- coercion -- is the method of barbarians, the deadly enemy of liberty and of civilization itself.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

Statement Defense

"Liberty can only be expressed THROUGH POLITICAL STRUCTURES."
I would like to defend this statement. I believe it is accurate in that humans are a social animal. Our very genetics dictate this behavior. A human being can survive completely alone, though most of us prefer at least the periphery of the herd, on a subconscious level. In our current society, it’s mandatory for any but the very basic survival level. Let’s face it, as humans, we prefer to be comfortable, as well as alive and free.
To a human surviving all alone, Liberty is meaningless. He has all the liberty he can stand.
In order to ease the issues that must happen in a herd, or society, if you prefer, people come together to decide what behavior is detrimental to the collection as a whole. This is, for lack of a better word, a "political structure". The decisions or tools of enforcement (law/education/etc.) aren’t dictated by being that structure (government/politics), but by the foundation of that structure. As a set of rules, it doesn’t have to be any more defined than "do no harm to others". However, what constitutes harm? I have been offended by some, is that harm? What am I allowed to do to those who harm my by offence? When does the "them's fightin' words" clause start? What recourse do I have if someone harms me physically? What if he beat me up because I offended him? What if I didn't realize I had offended him? Obviously, I'm not strong enough to physically defend myself against this person, or I would have. Can I get friends and track him down later if I live? What if I don't? I have some angry friends. ;)
Just some rhetorical thought questions and just my 2 cents. :)

Just open the box and see

Well thank you for reading what I write dabooda

I hope you feel better. My heart is very delicious, I know. How do I know? A few females in my past life where able to rip it out and they seemed to enjoy it very much.

May I give you or share with you my reading list? The work from these authors may help you better see what I am saying. But becareful, you may (yes may) have to alter your point of view, add to it, or heavens forbid change your point of view. If its reality based factual truth that you seek when discussing humans and human nature, you may find this very interesting.

1) "Sociobiology" and "Consilience" by Edward O Wilson
2) "The Blank Slate" and "How the Mind Works" by Steven Pinker
3) "Mother Nature" by Sarah Blaffer Hrdy
4) "The Selfish Gene" and "The Extended Phenotype" by Richard Dawkins
5) "Genetics and the Social Behavior of the Dog" by Scott & Fuller
6) "The Moral Animal: Why We Are the Way We Are, the New Science of Evolutionary Psychology" by Robert Wright
7) "The Mating Mind" by Geoffrey Miller
8) "The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolutiion of Human Nature" by Matt Ridley (He is a libertarian btw)
9) "Darwinian Politics: The Evolutionary Origin of Freedom" by Dr Paul H Rubin (He is also a libertarian economist btw)
10) The Sovereign Individual" and "The Great Reckoning" by James Dale Davidson
11) "No Two Alike: Human Nature and Human Individuality" by Judith Rich Harris
12) "The Lucifer Principle" and "The Global Brain" and "The Genius of the Beast: A Radical Re-Vision of Capitalism" all by Howard Bloom

and now my favorite,...favorite on so many levels the least of which is this world class writer from America's long past actually "woke up" after his 1930's FDR Progressive Marxist college education to realize a whole new way of looking at the human race ... "African Genesis" and "The Territorial Imperative" by Robert Ardrey

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

What? No Konrad Lorenz?

I was sure you'd be a fan of On Aggression. I guess Ardrey's close enough, though.

-------------------
George Dance

Robbing Ron Paul
http://www.nolanchart.com/article9813-robbing-ron-paul.html

Thanks, Treg, and no thanks.

Actually, I was just hoping for a good argument/discussion, not a homework assignment. I thank you for the trouble you took making the list, but genetics, psychology, sociology and suchlike do not interest me. Philosophy and economics -- the reasons why individuals make their individual choices -- do. I did study both the hard and soft behavioral sciences in college (some 40 years ago), but found them fatally infected with determinism. I refute determinism. I choose to believe, instead, in free will. Is that choice pre-determined by my genes, upbringing, socio-economic status, or some evolutionary process? If it is, then how can I argue with it? And how could anyone prove it OR disprove it, they likewise being the product of some deterministic process? On the other hand, maybe we really do have free will, and all the deterministic theories are just a steaming pile of crap. That's my story, and I'm sticking with it.

As regards the political ramifications of such matters, I reason thusly: I can get along with other people just fine without using coercion aggressively. If I can make that choice and hold to it -- then anyone can. It's just a matter of persuading them that certain choices work better than others for getting the things they want. Trading and other voluntary associations work better -- for everyone -- than using coercion. You want to hear a jaw-dropping cognitive leap, here it is: if I don't need "government," no one needs government. That's even more grandiose than Ron Paul saying, "Government should NEVER have a right to do anything that YOU can't do." But I think he and I are on the same page.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

"not a homework assignment."

Unfortunately Giuliani, Ron Paul has schooled you again. Read up.. it's just words.. they won't bite. :)

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

MY PERSONAL PLAN...

I will stay in the republican party.. to vote in primaries.. go to conventions.. promote liberty candidates.. work from the inside.. But when it comes to a presidential election I don't have to switch parties to vote for an independent or third party candidate.

I haven't decided who I'll vote for yet.. Mitt and Obama aren't on the list by the way.. but I would love to see and independent do well.. didn't Ross Perot get 19%. I do believe that a liberty minded candidate doing well will help in the next republican primary.

I know there are a lot of us in NC looking forward to meeting back at the state convention next year.. till then we are getting more friends and young people involved. Next year we select our party leaders at the state level.. :)

LP Old & Dusty... yes it is. So is the GOP.

So forget "party". A new generation of libertarians is coming of age and they are not found within one group.

"One resists the invasion of armies; one does not resist the invasion of ideas" Victor Hugo

The LP may be dusty; the GOP is not.

That's SLIME it's covered with, not dust.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

Yeah right......

Like youtube, internet, and economic down fall has nothing to do with the revolution? Ron Paul was just a messenger, Austrian free market economics and politics is what Liberty means, a long generational journey.

The fact you dont even contemplate Ron not being nominated is blind faith, and scary. If Ron Paul is not nominated who will you vote for?

GOP is a tainted corrupted head, of a fake Left vs Right paradigm the primaries and the process have proven this.They are changing the rules to shut us out in the future.

Libertarian party was conceived in 1970's so its relatively new, the system from both side, does all in its power to prevent the party from taking off and being viable.Once again, todays technology is what made the difference without it you probably would not even know of Liberty or Ron Paul

So you Libertarians don't own a computer either huh

Oh and I forgot.. youtube use is banned by the party.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Bump for relevance

Bump for relevance

That is must read for

That is must read for everyone, good find.

If There Were No LP

then the bashers at Fox and at MSNBC could not have accused Dr. Paul of being a "fake" Republican or of running in the "wrong" party.

___________________________________________________________________________
"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

I agree, Gary Johnson does not Inspire people like Doctor No

And that, is why, freedom is so important. We all need to go back to the constitution and have our representatives represent the individual will of the people. Government should be scared of us, and protect our liberties

Oath of Freedom
for the True north, strong & free!

Not worth debating

We will see results in just a couple of months.

We will see who gets more votes in the general election-- RP or GJ
We will also see if Romney, if he is the candidate, adopts some of RP's positions

.

gary did do what ron did. next election he might start off on the repub ticket again.

no one here convinced ron paul to do that, and "we" definitely aren't somehow responsible for that strategy. the rise of his popularity was probably (i dont remember him talking about it so i don't know for sure) actually an unintended consequence, not based off a strategy the first time. now that other people saw the effect, they'll copy what he did. it's pretty obvious

In The LP Debate He Promised To Stay In The Party For Life

It was a debate question with, let's face it, only one good answer.

You know the 2016 Republican debate moderators, and all other media for that matter, would throw that pledge right back in his face if he ever tried to run on the Republican ticket.

___________________________________________________________________________
"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

You're right, we should trust

You're right, we should trust the slimey scumbag gop or democrats. Right.

Tell ya what, nah.

Against my better judgement I changed my voters card back to gop from lp so we could take part in this slimey rotten election and what did it do? Got us a bunch of robo calls from the gop to which I did get a chance to have a head to head with the gop pres here and now we don't get calls no mo.

NEVER AGAIN you gop slimebags. Traitors for what you've done to Ron Paul, to the country. You all in the gop deserve the gallows.

The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good things is my religion. Thomas Paine, Godfather of the American Revolution

l feel your pain but don't follow your logic

Did you even read an essay link or two that I provided?

Treg

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

Attempting to achieve liberty via politics...

...is like attempting to achieve world peace through waging continual war.

That actually sometimes

That actually sometimes works.

Edit: I mean, war sometimes makes peace. Politics never creates liberty.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"