32 votes

The Libertarian Party is a Failed -"Liberty Advancing"-Strategy

by Treg D. Loyden

Why don't you Gary Johnson Libertarian Party people learn what we have learned?

That is, why don't you learn WHY WE CREATED the R3VOLUTION in the first place?

Please don't preach to us, read what we have to say. Then you will know why we DROPPED the LP as an effective STRATEGIC PATH to advance liberty.

Most of all, why don't you realize that WE in the r3VOLution are on to something?

Now get on your knees and confess these facts:

1) In just 5 short years WE in the r3VOLution have done more to advance Libertarian ideals than you in your 41 year old dusty LP.

2) We have OUT RAISED Money for our candidate than all 41 years of the LP has raised for ALL its candidates.

3) We have earned more VOTES for our candidate as well. Does that not say something to you? Not only did we do this, but we did this with one of your old 'throw-away' presidential candidates from 1988. We resurrected him from the bowels of the internet, resurrected his long forgotten speeches, resurrected him from your own obscurity. Think about that. And just imagine what we could do with Harry Browne if he was still alive today.

The ONLY reason why the Libertarian Party gets ANY national press today is because of what our decentralized networked r3VOLution has managed to do in 5 short years.

Please stop telling us to GO BACK to the LP and vote for GJ. This is a movement that the LP or DNC or GOP cannot co-opt. We are not couch potato Fox News simpletons, we are the real deal.

So please understand, its waste of time to spend our energies inside the libertarian party all for one man, Gary Johnson (who is not even a libertarian).

Here is the take away point from all of this: The LP is a STRATEGY. That is all it is. It is a strategy for advancing Liberty and Freedom.

And here is what you need to know, your strategy does not work. Like all the others before him, Gary Johnson will get .05% of the vote, that is it. It’s a failure by any measure.

So wake up, pay close attention to WHY WE STARTED THE r3VOLution in the first place.

Most of all, before asking us to vote for GJ, why don't you spend your time reading these essays first and then get back to us?

1) How Do We Know When the r3VOLution has Won?

2) Its So Fun to Hijack the GOP

3) What Do We Want? To Win! (And to be the Next DNC/GOP Party Bosses)

4) Why We Must Re-Brand Liberty Inside the 2-Party Duopoly

5) Starting the LP Was a HUGE Strategic Mistake for Liberty

6) GJ & the LP is NOT the next battlefield for advancing Liberty. Here is the next Battlefield: http://www.dailypaul.com/238639/we-need-you-to-run-against-a...

7) Here is your call to arms by Israel Anderson! VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-KNWe-djXM&feature=share

8) Here is Ron Paul himself at the 23 min mark saying, infiltrate the 2-Party Duopoly system http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4n6gX...!


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reedr3v's picture

You would do well to read Ron Paul's

A Foreign Policy of Freedom. Aggressive wars never make peace. Defensive wars are rare, terrible necessities; for this country, only the original revolution.



"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

reedr3v's picture

U.S. intervention in Bosnia, as in all other

foreign wars, promotes the idea that it is the duty of the U.S. to police the world. In the scheme of all things, that is the MOST destructive and war-promoting concept of all. Horrendous regimes and policies happen all over the globe constantly. The U.S. is a causal factor in some; in others it should focus on being a superlative example of peace and good will, and leave the fighting to those involved directly.

And it also proves you wrong.

And it also proves you wrong.

Sometimes there are things worth fighting for.

The lives of 100,000 people are examples. We should have helped early.

"Freedom for us, death for you"???? Come on now.

If I saw someone beating you up, i would come to your aid. I guess you would walk on by and pat yourself on the back for being so "peaceful".

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

reedr3v's picture

You are contrasting personal responsibility

in a conflict where one directly KNOWS the circumstances to delegation of authority to the U.S. military for all neighborhoods in the world.

By your standards the Marines/tactical units should have been deployed to every democide around the world: China, Russia, Rwanda, Congo, North Korea, Egypt, etc etc etc etc etc etc.

Here is the huge difference between you GJ supporters and Paul supporters. Like Liberals and NeoCons, you believe in delegating authoritarian intervention whenever you personally want it.

Libertarians who accept the NAP know that we as individuals we are free to intervene in unjust situations, indeed ethically encouraged to do so. But it is far far different to imagine one can outsource justice to organizations with no moral standards and expect justice to happen magically due to good wishes or intentions.

Mebbe, but all Johnson is

Mebbe, but all Johnson is saying is that he will not close the door on doing the right thing UNTIL he knows all of the facts. Which is to say "is it the right thing for US to do". Will it help the US on the international stage or hurt us? Will we be heroes or villains? Will we save lives or take them? Are we protecting the innocent or scaring the dickens out of them?

Ron Paul says "screw them, I'm not going to even think about it and I don't even know what's going on yet".

Gary Johnson says "Let me understand it fully and think about it first".

Who is an ideologue and who is a leader?

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

Ron Paul merely suggested

Ron Paul merely suggested that we do not have the right to interfere in other people's matters or attack innocent people when we are in no way threatened.

Our intervention in many nations have prevented the people from properly voicing their desires because we imposed our desires on them. Such as the case in Libya. Instead of letting the actual people decide what is best for them we crippled then through sanctions which burdened the people, not the leaders and forced them to accept the fate we choose instead of them.

What if during the American Revolution another country came in drove out the British and told us what kind of country we can have. It would certainly not be the country our Founders created. We would be puppets of another county's will.

Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto. - T. Jefferson rЭVO˩ution

"Everyone wants to live at the expense of the state. They forget that the state wants to live at the expense of everyone.” - BASTIAT

movement has long been co-opted and noone notices

any movement you think you have.

what people are getting are true libertarian values embedded in libertarian party. unfortunately, people like rand and yourself run from your roots in fear and shame of who you are bec you think estab and islam is better and it feels good to serve the crony campaign officials.


Flawed Assumptions

You make a fundamentally flawed assumption: you assume the Revolution began with the Ron Paul campaign of 2008. This is a marathon, not a sprint. The winners and losers have not yet been decided.

Instead, it was Ron Paul's appearances at Libertarian Party conventions, across the country for decades, that funded his many Congressional campaigns and built his e-mail list. We would not be where we are without the LP.

Additionally, the LP is the very first political party to have a website and to use it. They were the first to throw tea parties every April 15th (income tax filing deadline).

They were the best refuge for refugees from the dominant parties, allowing them to stay in the game.

Without the LP, what Ron Paul calls "the remnant," laying the ground work and keeping the flame alive, we in the Revolution (which includes a substantial number of LP members like me) would not be so successful.

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

Just make sure your "refuge"

is really not an echo chamber.

Did you even bother to read any of the links I provided?

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

Contradictions are doomed to failure

Liberty through politics is impossible. The only thing secured through politics is permissions allowed by a tiny majority that are sanctioned by the majority.

Excellent response

Excellent response

The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good things is my religion. Thomas Paine, Godfather of the American Revolution

Oh, and I assume you meant..

..."tiny MINORITY" right?

Nope, I meant tiny minorty.

All the volumes of code being thrust upon the populace is done so by the majority of politicians running the system. Overall, the politicians running the system are by far a tiny minority of the populace. The real problem, however, lies not in the fact that some people believe they have the right to do to everyone else as they wish, but in the fact the the majority of people believe that this minority has that right.

Thank you.

I was going to say VOTING in this system is a failed liberty-advancing strategy. You summed it up nicely.

I'm voting for liberty candidates

I hope RP gets the republican nomination, but I'm not counting on it. Great job with the movement everybody, you're doing well stealing the republican party back, but I'm not losing faith in third parties just yet. The republican party is still full of asshole neocons, and though there are a few liberty candidates I will vote for, I'm still working hard for the LP. I have no republican party to go back to. I'll work on electing local LP candidates, because I don't have any republican liberty candidates to vote for in my state, despite the movements hard work. And, unless RP gets the republican nod, that includes candidates for president. In closing; Screw Romney, I'm not voting for him. I'm voting third party. Quit trying to change my mind. The republican party is not going to bend to your will even though I wish it would. I will use every resource available to me to advance candidates of liberty, and I will vote my conscience; And that means voting for GJ in the general election.

"...And that means voting for

"...And that means voting for GJ in the general election."

Even if by Godspeed Ron Paul gets the Republican Nomination?

Obviously I'd still vote for RP

But even he has admitted he wont get the republican nomination, and I'd like to have a third voice in the debates in the fall, one that talks about the ideas of liberty. In that respect, GJ IS MY ONLY OPTION. So I will continue campaigning for him. My time with the republican party is over. I'll see you all at the RP rally before the convention, and that will probably be the last rally the good doctor will ever run. Its the end of his career, and I have to move on(tear). And I'm moving to the LP.

Liberty's Sake

"and that will probably be the last rally the good doctor will ever run"

...yes, perhaps but maybe not, at any rate it is a relay and the torch will be passed and we will run for Liberty's sake!

You are right we must find the best Liberty Candidates and vote them into office. But, I am also happy though that Ron Paul has lead a R3VOLution in the GOP and many state parties are being toppled from the inside and Liberty is Rising on that crumbling heap. People have had bones broken and have been arrested while climbing to the top of that heap! Ron Paul Delegates will be voting on the new GOP platform rules in Tamp

Do what you have to do for the Libertarian Party, but please remember, there is a R3VOLution going on in the GOP, and all the help that can be mustered is needed! Perhaps we are winning and the GOP will be a party of Liberty. That is my hope. . .I can't wait to see who is King of the Mountain! May it be Ron Paul for Liberty's Sake! Thank you for giving him your vote if he is the nominee.

Come and Join Us!

Now that I have seen that Bright Light of Liberty reflected by Dr. Ron Paul, I have often wondered if the Voices of Liberty were not in fact isolated in that Libertarian Party and now that there is a viable voice of Liberty, Dr. Ron Paul who has spent 40 years in his effort to regain Liberty for those who would give their consent to be governed, if that voice is not now marginalized by those in the Libertarian Party because they cannot see clear of Party Lines to whole-heartedly support one whose goals are the same as theirs. Unless of course the goals of the Libertarian Party have been hijacked in order to divide and conquer that Bright Light of Liberty.

Please, by all means, come on over and join us as We the Voices of Liberty are taking BACK the Political Power Resident in the Republican Party so that once again the consent of the governed might be the Law from sea to shining sea!


July 10, 2012, Santa Fe, NM — The Libertarian Party presidential ticket will be in Las Vegas July 12-14 for FreedomFest. Presidential nominee and former New Mexico Governor Gary Johnson, along with his running mate, former Superior Court Judge Jim Gray, are slated to speak at the annual festival.

Please see event details below.

Thursday, July 12 – 5:30-6:30 p.m. PT, Gov. Johnson Book Signing, “Seven Principles of Good Government,” Bally’s, 3645 Las Vegas Boulevard South. Exact location: TBD.

Friday, July 13 – 11 a.m.-1 p.m. PT, Gov. Johnson Book Signing, Bally’s.

Saturday, July 14 – 10:30-11 a.m. PT, Gov. Johnson and Judge Gray speak at Freedom Fest, Bally’s.

Saturday, July 14 – 12-1 p.m. PT, Gov. Johnson Book Signing, Bally’s.

Media availability – In addition to these public events, Gov. Johnson and Judge Gray are available for interviews throughout their Las Vegas visit. To schedule please contact Natalie Dicou, phone: (801) 994-0321, email: nataliedicou@garyjohnson2012.com

I agree that the Libertarian Party is a failed strategy

But I may vote for the LP candidate as a way of expressing my dissatisfaction with Robama. Either that or abstain.

The LP cannot win. Our system will never allow a third party to have a fair shot because the Republocrats control the access. The only strategy that has proven to work is become a strong influence in one of the two controling parties. That's where the power is, and that's where we can make a change.

I was active in the LP for a number of years, but I dropped out when I saw how we were like protesters in a 'free speech zone.' The rules and the media put us in a little box where we could pretend we were being heard, but in fact we were just talking to ourselves. That might have been important at one time to keep the 'remnant' in touch with each other, but libertarians have broken out of that box and we are now a loud force in the real world. I'm not going back to the box.

Sure a "feel good vote" sure, but do NOT

waste your money and especially your TIME trying to grow the LP. Why? Just read those links that I provided.

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820


It would be a protest vote only. The LP cannot be made into a mainstream party...at least not under the current system.


Well said!

And Gary Howard just got hired by the RNC, that would not of happened had he been a LP candidates press secretary!

We are the GOP of the very near future!

I am!


Yeah but if he had been a LP candidates press secretary he might have been hired by The Libertarian Party instead. You know who else missed out on an opportunity to be hired by the RNC?, all those democratic candidates press secretaries out there.

“Politicians are like diapers; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.” ― Mark Twain

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world."



Here's Some More Fuel To Add

To the fire:

Words are cheap...Actions speak for themselves.

"Beyond the blackened skyline, beyond the smoky rain, dreams never turned to ashes up until.........
...Everything CHANGED !!


Thank You!
Look at the chart in this link.


Ron Holland is right, its a trap

"Third Party Political Action Is An Establishment Trap" Thanks for the link and the facts GBAmerica

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820