The Libertarian Party is a Failed -"Liberty Advancing"-Strategy
Submitted by Treg on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 13:48by Treg D. Loyden
Why don't you Gary Johnson Libertarian Party people learn what we have learned?
That is, why don't you learn WHY WE CREATED the R3VOLUTION in the first place?
Please don't preach to us, read what we have to say. Then you will know why we DROPPED the LP as an effective STRATEGIC PATH to advance liberty.
Most of all, why don't you realize that WE in the r3VOLution are on to something?
Now get on your knees and confess these facts:
1) In just 5 short years WE in the r3VOLution have done more to advance Libertarian ideals than you in your 41 year old dusty LP.
2) We have OUT RAISED Money for our candidate than all 41 years of the LP has raised for ALL its candidates.
3) We have earned more VOTES for our candidate as well. Does that not say something to you? Not only did we do this, but we did this with one of your old 'throw-away' presidential candidates from 1988. We resurrected him from the bowels of the internet, resurrected his long forgotten speeches, resurrected him from your own obscurity. Think about that. And just imagine what we could do with Harry Browne if he was still alive today.
The ONLY reason why the Libertarian Party gets ANY national press today is because of what our decentralized networked r3VOLution has managed to do in 5 short years.
Please stop telling us to GO BACK to the LP and vote for GJ. This is a movement that the LP or DNC or GOP cannot co-opt. We are not couch potato Fox News simpletons, we are the real deal.
So please understand, its waste of time to spend our energies inside the libertarian party all for one man, Gary Johnson (who is not even a libertarian).
Here is the take away point from all of this: The LP is a STRATEGY. That is all it is. It is a strategy for advancing Liberty and Freedom.
And here is what you need to know, your strategy does not work. Like all the others before him, Gary Johnson will get .05% of the vote, that is it. It’s a failure by any measure.
So wake up, pay close attention to WHY WE STARTED THE r3VOLution in the first place.
Most of all, before asking us to vote for GJ, why don't you spend your time reading these essays first and then get back to us?
1) How Do We Know When the r3VOLution has Won?
http://www.dailypaul.com/236949/how-do-we-know-when-the-r3vo...
2) Its So Fun to Hijack the GOP
http://www.dailypaul.com/119891/its-so-fun-to-hijack-the-gop
3) What Do We Want? To Win! (And to be the Next DNC/GOP Party Bosses)
http://www.dailypaul.com/233240/what-do-we-want-to-win-and-t...
4) Why We Must Re-Brand Liberty Inside the 2-Party Duopoly
http://www.dailypaul.com/217383/go-libertarian-or-go-freedom...
5) Starting the LP Was a HUGE Strategic Mistake for Liberty
http://www.dailypaul.com/236042/starting-the-libertarian-par...
6) GJ & the LP is NOT the next battlefield for advancing Liberty. Here is the next Battlefield: http://www.dailypaul.com/238639/we-need-you-to-run-against-a...
7) Here is your call to arms by Israel Anderson! VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-KNWe-djXM&feature=share
8) Here is Ron Paul himself at the 23 min mark saying, infiltrate the 2-Party Duopoly system http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4n6gX...!
Treg
If the Libertarian Party is a Trap What Do You Call Tampa
If the Libertarian Party activity is a trap what do you call paying your own way to the Republican Party convention in Tampa and being coerced and intimidated into being quiet and acquiesing to the coronation of Mitt Romney?
Looking forward to Tampa!
I can't wait to see what happens at Tampa! Godspeed Dr. Ron Paul!
Who cares?
This article reads more like a rabid territorial claim than a liberty movement. I have no idea who started the liberty movement, and I don’t care. I just turned 18 and registered Libertarian and will be voting for the first time this year. To me, the liberty movement is placing and voting for liberty candidates throughout all parties AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. As far as I know Gary Johnson is the only liberty candidate on the ballot, therefore Im voting for him because Obama and Romney are not liberty candidates. Duh….Seems like you have to much free time on your hands to bash candidates instead of advancing a movement.
Romney is not on the ballot
Romney is not on the ballot yet! Godspeed Dr. Ron Paul!
Liberty Woes are you 18? Wow! How wonderful!
Congratulations! You've made it and you are going to cast your very first vote for Libertarian --- Hey Me TOO! I mean, I DID that too when I was 18. Wow we have SOOoooo much in common.
Well, I hope not too much. You see, I did MORE than just vote for Ed Clark in 1980, I got involved with the LP, worked hard to push it, grow it, all because I foolishly thought that growing the LP would ADVANCE LIBERTY!!! Hey, but I was wrong. I and many other AZ libertarians broke free, help start the r3VOlution, that is a liberty Movement outside of the LP. Two years later, we found our candidate in Ron Paul. The rest is 'history' as the say.
So, what have I learned? Well just read the links. I hope you do.
Treg
"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by George Smith --
BUY IT HERE: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0521182093/ref=tsm_1_fb_lk
Invest in Liberty, one Apartment deal at a time with me, just ask me how & get rich with me.
Liberty Woes
Doesn't Care:
Doesn't Know:
WHO started the Liberty Movement.
Yet professes to be a registered Libertarian.
That's like claiming to be a Catholic, but not going to church on Sunday.
Hang in there kid.
"Beyond the blackened skyline, beyond the smoky rain, dreams never turned to ashes up until.........
...Everything CHANGED !!
I don’t profess, I am a registered Libertarian
-Professing is not the same as doing, and I'm registered libertarian because I'm not giving any other party the pleasure of announcing me as part of their team. Im voting principles over party, and Ill always vote for a liberty candidate no matter if they are libertarian, republican or democrat. That’s why I think bashing Gary does nothing for the movement. The more people involved the merrier and the more you bash, the more you divide.
RP didn’t win because all those sick of the republicans have abandoned the party, the only ones left are the neo-cons who are fighting you nail and tooth to keep their party the way it is. Otherwise he would have won.
It is there to help divide us.
Ron Paul would win if all these parties would stand behind just one man. Instead they are splintering up. Ron Paul would bring all those other parties closer to achieving their goals then any of the candidates from their own parties.
But their ego's won't allow it.
Independts outnumber Dems and Republicans. All they got to do is get behind the one man that can win, RON PAUL.
I don't agree with Ron Paul on some things but he will bring us all closer to each other in freedom!
Listen to your self.
So what you're saying is Ron Paul would win if all these people would stop voting their conscience??? LOL... nice, very Libertarian of you. All you need now is a rubber Scooby Doo mask to rip off so you can complain about how you "would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for those meddling kids". hahahahaha
You know I remember hearing that same line of thought from the democrats when al gore lost and they blamed it on Ralph Nader and the Green Party. It seems to always be regurgitated in such a way as to sound as if your candidate has a right to those votes rather than a responsibility to earn them. If they don't vote for you or your candidate it's not a failure on their part but rather a failure on yours. I hope you remember that when the republicans spout this same nonsense at Ron Paul supporters after romney loses to President Obama.
"we have met the enemy and he is us"
“Politicians are like diapers; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.” ― Mark Twain
"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world."
Agree
The LP split and became its own party in 72. Since then there has been no restrictions on government spending etc. I believe this is because the former party libertarians split off Into irelevency
I'd say trying to take over
I'd say trying to take over the Neo-Con Party is a failed strategy, because folks like Rand Paul and Jack Hunter have compromised with the establishment to some degree. Both major parties are totally crooked and beyond repair.
Think about it - only half of Americans are registered to vote and less than 70 percent of them normally vote for president. The majority has already rejected the system and many of the rest feel as though there is no hope. It's time for a new way. I don't know if that's through the libertarians or an independence movement started from scratch, but we have to start our own organization.
jeffersonfranklin -- think about those Neocons again
Their numbers are fewer than us libertarians, yet by your own statement, its now a Neo-Con Party. How did they do that? I suggest you read the first five links i provided.
Treg
"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by George Smith --
BUY IT HERE: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0521182093/ref=tsm_1_fb_lk
Invest in Liberty, one Apartment deal at a time with me, just ask me how & get rich with me.
you need to equally "take over" 3rd parties by the same effort
it's just that much more like herding cats.. a bunch of dumb cats, at that. you think third party private funding won't carry their special monetary, financial incentives? just even that much more dispersed than establishment party money and much more effort to court. think the koch brothers.. cato is having a handful just sucking their d-ck the whole time to make them happy. you think 3rd party is all easy and people just pile big money into it for no reason? what about third party grassroots? instead of dealing with establishment hacks we would be dealing with self righteous, anti social freaks who didn't so far as leave establishment parties willingly, but more like they were rejects, kicked out. problem is with general american sentiment, whether we have their full support to the degree that they are willing to drop their nail polish for once and stop watching some hot guy on a reality tv show, not so far as to which political strategy we use. if you really want to say 'wrong strategy', to find a bogeyman, you make more sense to just say 'let's get out of politics'.
.
bump
De criminalize Liberty!
and the whole theory was that ron paul didn't get enough women
votes because he wasn't intent enough on socializing the cost of child bearing via abortion or otherwise.. well, johnson seems much more sympathetic to that and even according to johnson, that seems to be one of the only places that differentiate him from paul. well, look where it's getting him. feminists fail.
Gary Johnson supporters
Have failed to get this... After you've helped the LP and GJ, what are you going to do AFTER the national election?
That's right, there is no future in the LP. Hence, WASTED energy, time and money.
The game now is to go inside the DNC & GOP.
A win looks like this; 2 liberty candidates, one democrat and one republican, are the two "choices" before the voters.
Liberty wins!
Get on board with that strategy, it pays peaceful dividends.
Treg
"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by George Smith --
BUY IT HERE: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0521182093/ref=tsm_1_fb_lk
Invest in Liberty, one Apartment deal at a time with me, just ask me how & get rich with me.
Ridiculous
How does supporting and voting for Gary Johnson prevent me from reforming the Republican party in the future?
Baloney!
Ron Paul was doing the same thing for 30 years and not getting any traction before he finally took off, mostly because of a few statements he made in a one or two debates in 1988.
The same kind of spark can help any other LP candidate, and the LP itself, take off.
Stop being devisive, Treg. We're on the same team. Ron Paul. The LP. Rand Paul. Gary Johnson.
It's just that everyone is a little different, for various reasons. It's all good.
We're all Team Liberty, and for the presidential election in November, we NEED TO UNITE BEHIND GARY JOHNSON!!!
"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."
Minarchism
track
never liked when the only defense is 'don't be divisive'
not even when people did the same to deflect criticism against paul. almost like 'shh, just turn a blind eye to our faults, and all will be ok'
if you don't expand, then you contract, maybe you have to worry about shrinking size indeed, but it's not from 'division'. if you had any success in pulling in those so called 'independently-minded' democrats especially feminists who attacked paul for his abortion stance and made even a fraction of them good on their promise to vote 3rd party, maybe you would have something to show for. but no. you got cheated and lied to yet again--you go with the democrats on couple policies, then they immediately drop you like hot water as soon as they have their way
"Baloney" is the sum total of your arguement?
And I think you mean to say 2008, not 1988.
Your claim that it was a spark in the debates in 2008 that made the Paul campaign take off, well, proves my point, doesn't it? Read essay number 4
Come on Minarchist, I know I wrote 5 essays but surely they are not too long for a good MIND like yours?
And I am not being devisive, I am keeping the r3VOLution on track to what ADVANCES LIBERTY vs what would be a waste of time, energy and money.
Sure, vote GJ come election day, get that "feel-good-about-my-vote" feeling. But please do not put time and energy and most of all, money in the LP.
Quick history - I was an Libertarian Party member/voter from 1980-2004. Then one day it occurred to dozens and dozens of us Arizona libertarians that the LP is "JUST A LIBERTY ADVANCING VEHICLE" -- and a poor one at that. Indeed, like a 30 old car that keeps sucking your money, time, and gas and getting you NO WHERE you want to go, it is a FAILED liberty advancing vehicle.
What we decided was that we needed to take libertarian message OUTSIDE of the LP, dust it off and let it get dusty too. Let it spread and become a MOVEMENT. Let it CHOOSE its own candidate. When Ron Paul listen to us, and said YES, I'LL DO IT" and ran for President starting in 2007 we got busy. Thanks to Ernie Hancock and his activism as well as FreedomsPhoenix online newspaper and activist TV and Radio Studio, we re-branded libertarianism under a much wider banner: the r3VOLution. And we all got incredibly busy promoting the Ron Paul. The Az LP and the National LP DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It told its members, these guys are not us, stay away from those activists. These LP types where EMBARRASSED and said "Please don't use the libertarian name with what you are doing" when we did stuff like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB-0EPtoKzA Well we carried on without the stuff shirts over at the LP who could not swing a spray paint can. I got busy and posted up my RON PAUL YOU TUBE VIDEO Contest with $2000 in prize money. The videos pored in, just type into youtube search "Ron Paul treg" and you'll see. The winner was this one: Ron Paul New Hope http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG2PUZoukfA The r3VOLution took off and it was OUT SIDE of the Ron Paul Campaign.
Ron's big moment came with the Rudy exchange as you may have thought as a "Spark" that started it all... but we were there, FEEDING it. We breathed LIFE into it or it would soon be yesterday's news.
Now Minarchist, the platform of the r3VOLution is a BIGGER wider platform and can continue only as a movement if it knows what it is doing and why and most of all, What Works and What Does Not. To this, I ask you to read the 7 essays above.
YES! If you still disagree, then trust me, I am all ears. I have always respected your comments very much. You and BigT and Bob45 and many others. But I deserve more than just "Baloney"
Treg
PS.... I am sure the Obama Campaign & the DNC want to co-opt the OWS movement....and if it already has then its a DEAD MOVEMENT.
You even saw the Dick Army People and then Fox News people all join to eventually co-opt the Tea Party Movement into the GOP....it is now a DEAD MOVEMENT.
Do you want to hand the Libertarian Party, our liberty movement, the r3VOLution? I submit you'll kill it.
"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by George Smith --
BUY IT HERE: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0521182093/ref=tsm_1_fb_lk
Invest in Liberty, one Apartment deal at a time with me, just ask me how & get rich with me.
I read your 5 essays and while I agree
with some aspects I find your main point, that all our energies and funds should be devoted directly to the rEVOLution, to be logically inconsistent.
Just getting ONE party to be Peace/Liberty would be monumental and I can't imagine it happening any time soon. Getting TWO parties to move that way is a very low probability.
Anyway, you can do your thing and others can do theirs. Hopefully, in the end, we win. For my part I will continue to support good candidates from any party. And, I will cast my vote for Johnson come November.
h-daddy
Thank you for reading them and responding!
And I agree with you, cast a vote for GJ in November (or hold your nose and vote Obama if its a close race cause he's out in 4 vs Romney puts us in 2020) .....and I agree I can do my thing while others can do theirs ... this we are on the same page H-daddy.
Your comment seems to imply that we must win over the WHOLE GOP and then win over the WHOLE DNC to which you ascribe its a "very low probability" --- again we agree 100% its not going to happen, but my friend, we do not have to win over even half the GOP or DNC to win.
That is right, fortunately for you and me and other RP Patriots, we do not have to win over the whole, not even half! We don not even have to win over over 1/3 although I sincerely believe 1/3rd is possible.
First lets ask, what is a "Win" for liberty? Answer: When two liberty candidates are the ONLY CHOICE come election time. That is a "win" because the outcome is always More Liberty.
Now that CHOICE can be inside the GOP races -- as in 5 people are running for State Governor inside the GOP and the winner will go against the winner DNC candidate. Only 1 of the 5 in the GOP race is a OUR R3VOLution Candidate. Are you with me?
Ok, imagine this. In the State of _____ the GOP has 5 candidates (the more the better for us). SINCE THE R3VOLUTION IS A NATIONWIDE FREEDOM MOVEMENT FOR LIBERTY, we all direct our attention and resources to THIS RACE. Activism, blogging, you-tubing, money bombs, signing, and most importantly door to door PC work that targets and identifies "OUR liberty leaning voters", "single or double or triple issue voters", "the personality voters", and importantly "Statist authoritarian voters" etc. Come election day, we DO NOT help get the Statist authoritarian voter to the voting booth that day. We get our people to the voting booth. The bottom line is we make sure that our "unknown" GOP freedom candidate for the State Governors race BEATS the other 4 candidates. We bring our NATIONWIDE movement to bare on that local race. That is "flexing our muscle" and that is powerful.
Now the same is true for the 5 man DNC race. Same situation. Same action from us. Bring our nationwide liberty movement to bare on that local race.
And here is the "Win" H-Daddy. When our liberty candidate from the GOP goes up against the liberty DNC candidate come election night. That is a BIG WIN for liberty, it matters little which wins.
Notice that this is EXACTLY how the very small minority ideologues called liberal warhawks or conservative neocons always "Wins".
Notice further that we CAN DO THIS in congressional races and Senate Races. This is why showing our love right now to KarenforCongress.com in her Congressional Race is so very important.--- it is 1000% times MORE IMPORTANT than casting our "feel-good-about-myself" vote for GJ come November.
This is how we FLEX OUR MUSCLE in the r3VOLution. We make Winners out of Congressional races, Senate races and State Governor Races. As I told GJ to his face, if he rand for New Mexico Senate race, the r3VOLution would be behind him all the way. But he cut some sort of deal with a neocon-israel firster wanting to be the Senator and promised (her?) that he would not run for the US Senate!!! We COULD have had Rand Paul joined by Senator Gary Johnson, think about that. 6 years of Senator Gary Johnson. And he is still widely popular in New Mexico. It could have been a big win for the r3VOLution. GJ chose to allow a neocon senator enter the US Senate for 6 years, for reasons that he could not explain straight to my face. Some silly "deal" and he must keep his "word" now. Why make such a "deal" in the first place is completely unexplained and unclear.
So, we do not have to win over the whole GOP or DNC, instead we need to stay a MOVEMENT. that does not get sucked back inside the LP.
You have seen the Tea Party movement get sucked into the GOP - and it died.
You are seeing the OWS movement get sucked into the DNC - and its dying fast.
Question: Are you going to allow the r3VOLution movement for liberty get sucked back into the LP?
FYI, I spent from 1980 thru 2004, my young and middle years, inside the LP and I have ZERO to show for it. Success for the libertarian message came when we took it outside of the LP. Inside, its just one big echo-chamber. It sounds all loud and important, but really you are just in a cave of your own digging.
In 2004 we Arizona libertarians and a big thanks to Ernie Hancock, took the freedom message OUTSIDE the Libertarian Party. Why? Its a "freedom car that won't start". But now, now that the r3VOLution is OUTSIDE the LP, and alive and well and full of energy, who needs who?
I submit to you to understand that our decentralize amorphous liberty MOVEMENT --outside of LP control --- is WHY we are thriving.
I submit to you and your brilliant sharp mind H-daddy that the STRATEGY to infiltrate the 2-party duopoly is working for two really big reasons:
Access to their Database and Access to their "legitimate" debate Stage which is media controlled.
I submit to you H-Daddy that going BACK inside the LP, that is putting our energies, time and money there, means we loose precious time in the race to "go deep" inside the 2-party matrix.
Do you want the r3VOLution movement for liberty get sucked back into the LP? A simple yes or no can rest my fears.
Treg
"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by George Smith --
BUY IT HERE: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0521182093/ref=tsm_1_fb_lk
Invest in Liberty, one Apartment deal at a time with me, just ask me how & get rich with me.
No.
I like to think of the rEVOLution as an angry octopus. The LP is but one arm.
Dr. Paul won over a pretty good chunk of the GOP but I am not sure, Tampa will tell us more, that any sort of victory has been won. Dr. Paul, evidently, is now working on Plan B and has some goals in mind for Tampa.
Good luck with your work. I'll be in NH doing similar stuff!
h-daddy
Far worse failure is the Rand Paul and ron (w/ romney endorsemen
Any word of praise of Romney personally is a failure. Rand, who has the same staff as Ron Paul, ended up falling in love with Romney - htat is a bigger failure than Gary Johnson / libertarian party ever could be or would want to be.
People are fearful of thinking something other than what media-romney-obama tells them. Media says you can't do it and you're not good enough and that you need to stay firmly with them, and hence people support establishment by dissing on forming something new other than the rigid one party system with two branches.
This also allows them to secretly be under Romney, while not admitting that they are no better than establishment and romney supporters. This def'n of a Romney-paul supporter.
jj
No one "fell in love" with Romney...
...the recent actions of the campaign have nothing to do with Romney per se, they are are about winning legitimacy for our movement in the eyes of Republican voters.
The LP serves no real political purpose. I'm not against the LP, I just don't see any point in supporting them when there is another libertarian movement with much better prospects for success: i.e. the Paul-led faction of which we are all (most of us anyway) happy to be part.
I'd like to find a way into the Democratic Party...
Wouldn't that be a hoot... The Revolution in the GOP. And something similar in the Democrats.
That is how the statists took control of the parties back in the day. As you suggest, instead of centering around a party, they infiltrated all parties until all parties fought for the same thing.
As soon as I can come up with a good hook for them, I will be on it... :) The problem is that the Democrats are too touchy feely and emotional to follow a logical argument for more than 10 seconds.
So, I am not sure the best way to reach them. But having a libertarian faction in both major parties would be a clear way to start down a corrective path...
The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.jonathangullible.com/mmedia/PoL.English.The.Philo...
All the Democrats...
...that support Ron Paul should carry the message into the party. That would be awesome. It needs to be done.
You should --- Jefferson Democrats or Peace Democrats is
a good start.
Just remember that wearing the "D" on your chest will get you lots of acceptance. There is power in wearing the label... (Just look at GJ wearing an "L") And when there are detractors, use the replies of John Ashman deflect and then obviate the issue.
I suggest you look at the historically current hot buttons issues to "be" a democrat. If their is one or two that you can agree with, do it.
For example: Take their love of unions. You can say this ... "I strongly, very very strongly believe in the right of all Americans, every American, to organize into a union of workers and most of all, list all their grievances. Companies can be little tyrannies, with little Napoleon dictators up at the top CEO positions. If they don't hear from their workers, if they don't learn how they may be harming their workers, then the right of the worker to organize and form a union is one way to go about solving those problems."
Now many if not most democrats would hear all that and think you are PRO-UNION... and you are not, you are pro-workers right to organize. Unions CAN be a force for good, listing worker safety hazards and listing grievances and complaints. But as you know they can be an impediment to organizational changes that need to be made for the company, to better the product. I can think of no more distributive union today than the teachers union. It stops organizational changes to make education better and it stops product improvement.
But going inside the DNC, I would not make Unions or the Free Market your focus. I would make Foreign Policy and Civil Rights your focus.
Treg
"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by George Smith --
BUY IT HERE: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0521182093/ref=tsm_1_fb_lk
Invest in Liberty, one Apartment deal at a time with me, just ask me how & get rich with me.
Two problems.
Democrats hate freedom. And they hate small government.
You wouldn't last long!
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"
Is this your website here?
http://dailygary.com/
"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by George Smith --
BUY IT HERE: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0521182093/ref=tsm_1_fb_lk
Invest in Liberty, one Apartment deal at a time with me, just ask me how & get rich with me.