32 votes

The Libertarian Party is a Failed -"Liberty Advancing"-Strategy

by Treg D. Loyden

Why don't you Gary Johnson Libertarian Party people learn what we have learned?

That is, why don't you learn WHY WE CREATED the R3VOLUTION in the first place?

Please don't preach to us, read what we have to say. Then you will know why we DROPPED the LP as an effective STRATEGIC PATH to advance liberty.

Most of all, why don't you realize that WE in the r3VOLution are on to something?

Now get on your knees and confess these facts:

1) In just 5 short years WE in the r3VOLution have done more to advance Libertarian ideals than you in your 41 year old dusty LP.

2) We have OUT RAISED Money for our candidate than all 41 years of the LP has raised for ALL its candidates.

3) We have earned more VOTES for our candidate as well. Does that not say something to you? Not only did we do this, but we did this with one of your old 'throw-away' presidential candidates from 1988. We resurrected him from the bowels of the internet, resurrected his long forgotten speeches, resurrected him from your own obscurity. Think about that. And just imagine what we could do with Harry Browne if he was still alive today.

The ONLY reason why the Libertarian Party gets ANY national press today is because of what our decentralized networked r3VOLution has managed to do in 5 short years.

Please stop telling us to GO BACK to the LP and vote for GJ. This is a movement that the LP or DNC or GOP cannot co-opt. We are not couch potato Fox News simpletons, we are the real deal.

So please understand, its waste of time to spend our energies inside the libertarian party all for one man, Gary Johnson (who is not even a libertarian).

Here is the take away point from all of this: The LP is a STRATEGY. That is all it is. It is a strategy for advancing Liberty and Freedom.

And here is what you need to know, your strategy does not work. Like all the others before him, Gary Johnson will get .05% of the vote, that is it. It’s a failure by any measure.

So wake up, pay close attention to WHY WE STARTED THE r3VOLution in the first place.

Most of all, before asking us to vote for GJ, why don't you spend your time reading these essays first and then get back to us?

1) How Do We Know When the r3VOLution has Won?
http://www.dailypaul.com/236949/how-do-we-know-when-the-r3vo...

2) Its So Fun to Hijack the GOP
http://www.dailypaul.com/119891/its-so-fun-to-hijack-the-gop

3) What Do We Want? To Win! (And to be the Next DNC/GOP Party Bosses)
http://www.dailypaul.com/233240/what-do-we-want-to-win-and-t...

4) Why We Must Re-Brand Liberty Inside the 2-Party Duopoly
http://www.dailypaul.com/217383/go-libertarian-or-go-freedom...

5) Starting the LP Was a HUGE Strategic Mistake for Liberty
http://www.dailypaul.com/236042/starting-the-libertarian-par...

6) GJ & the LP is NOT the next battlefield for advancing Liberty. Here is the next Battlefield: http://www.dailypaul.com/238639/we-need-you-to-run-against-a...

7) Here is your call to arms by Israel Anderson! VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-KNWe-djXM&feature=share

8) Here is Ron Paul himself at the 23 min mark saying, infiltrate the 2-Party Duopoly system http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4n6gX...!

Treg

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Has the r3VOLution succeeded where the Libertarians failed?

I don't think so. We may have elected a few people to office and raised a little bit of consciousness -- about problems that were growing too large to overlook anyway. But where are the real accomplishments? Are we freer today than we were in 2007, when the r3VOLution began -- or less free? Is the economy or the monetary system any sounder today than it was then -- or less sound? Are the evil wars of aggression ending -- or expanding?

"Show me the money!"

The strategy of "becoming the GOP" is still in its infancy, and the effectiveness of the strategy remains to be proven. Some things that ought to give us pause:

1. Our "victory" in Nevada: we succeeded in ousting the old guard GOP -- and they packed up all the money, walked away and started a new ad-hoc organization which the GOP establishment clearly prefers to the newly elected "dysfunctional" Paulites. I see this as a foretaste of things to come: Big money donors are likely to shun the Liberty Republican brand which offers them no special political favors, just as they shun Ron Paul, who they cannot buy. We tend to think that if we can just "take over" the GOP, all the money and power that the Party presently receives will pass to us automatically, and we will be able to afford huge national campaigns like Romney and Obama. That will NOT happen. Corporations make campaign donations to BUY INFLUENCE. If we're not for sale, the "buyers" will take their money elsewhere.

2. Don't expect gangsters, thieves and murderers to "play nice." If Ron Paul were elected President, do you truly believe he would live long enough to take the oath of office? Paul is the nemesis of the most evil human beings on the planet: the ones who start wars for profit, the ones who enslave whole nations with their fiat money. Paul has lived as long as he has because they don't really believe he threatens them. If they decide they were wrong about that -- just how long would he live, do you think, hunted by the CIA, Mossad, Mafia, drug lords and all the assassins the world's banksters can hire?

3. Programmable voting machines: there is lots of evidence of vote-flipping, but the authorities in charge of elections are part of the gang doing the flipping. Catch 22: You can't stop the flipping unless you're in charge of the elections, but you can't be in charge of the elections if the flipping prevents you from getting elected! And the use of those programmable voting machines will never be outlawed by the people who have used them to get elected.

I sincerely hope to be proven wrong about all of this. If I believed in prayer, that would be mine. I will continue to work -- to prove myself wrong. Surely the game is rigged -- but if you don't bet, you can't win.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

My reply to dabooda

1) Don't see Nevada as a "taste of things to come", take it as "lesson learned". When taking over the GOP, always get your hands on the money. It is a strategy play. The first RP patriot in top position should be a CPA who gets elected and put in charge of accounts. One that position is taken, then the charge up the hill can begin. Campaign donor lists are key as well.

1a) The 'Buyers of Influence' as you say will forced out of using the GOP, that is a start. That is a win. Sure, they will turn to going around, but around what? If the RP/GOP puts patriots into congressional and senate offices, then the lobbyists are going to have a tougher time of it. Not a perfect win, but its a start. The hiccup will come when they fund their own republican candidate and try and end around. Well hiccups happen, and sometimes they don't. Nothing is perfect.

2) That is a fair question. The tougher one is the one I asked here, about THE SPECIAL FOUR. It seems to be the real Catch 22. http://www.dailypaul.com/239068/the-special-four

3) I do not see this as a Catch 22. As we take the party boss positions, we change the rules and procedures and machines on ballot counting.

We have done more for liberty in just 5 short years than all 41 years of the Libertarian Party. Its just a fact. More money, more votes, we have proved that going inside the 2 party duopoly gets us
1) MSM coverage on the National Debate Stage
2) Access to their voter database whereby we can
a) find like minded freedom voters,
b) find "personality voters",
c) find the voters that are on the margin for liberty,
d) find "single issue or double issue' voters.

Together, these voters can give us a win for our liberty candidate. The beauty is that not one of the above kinds of voters need accept the whole liberty pill. Our skill in knowing our voter, comes from knowing via our PCs. We need to start compiling our own targeted voter list, identifying if they are a, b, c, or d and then directing our message to them directly. Case in point, we now have Karen Kwiatkoswki running for Congress. Such identification system would help and assist her greatly. She could win if we did this right.

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

Minor disagreements

1)You seem to think we can, if we play things right, take over the GOP and get our hands on their money. Nope. It's not like the GOP has a secret stash of billions that we could appropriate. I figure they live pretty much election-to-election with current expenses being paid by recent contributions. If and when Liberty candidates put the GOP out of the influence-peddling business, ALL the large corporate donations (which are about 90% of all donations) will head for greener pastures. Campaign donor lists will do us little good with "donors" who want to buy what we're not selling.

2. You've added a few names to my list of people who would be likely to assassinate President Paul. Thanks a bunch. Actually, I didn't intend to make it an exhaustive list. The government spends trillions of dollars every year. I'm afraid we'd have to make space on our list for everyone who receives a large chunk of that spending: "defense" contractors, recipients of "foreign aid," and so forth. And more space for all the corporations and unions that rely on our government for bailouts or repressive laws to protect them from competition . . . it's gonna be a long list.

"We have done more for liberty in just 5 short years than all 41 years of the Libertarian Party."

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. We have made a some noise, gotten a few more people to understand certain problems and their solutions, even elected a few pro-liberty folk like Rand Paul. But what we have done for liberty is pretty much the same as what the libertarians accomplished: zero. Tyranny continues to grow, and liberty continues to wither. Collecting votes does not constitute a victory for liberty. Electing pro-Liberty politicians does not constitute a victory for liberty. Repealing tyrannical laws and restoring respect for the Bill of Rights in the courts -- now THAT would be a victory worth counting. But THAT has not happened.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

Big +

..and as they say:
There's more than one way to skin a cat...
These novice "cat skinners" are pretty darn good for beginners!

"Beyond the blackened skyline, beyond the smoky rain, dreams never turned to ashes up until.........
...Everything CHANGED !!

Contrast This Ad with Rand Paul's Endorsement Interview

and see which one resonates with you and describes the real issues America now faces. Here is the Gary Johnson video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2X3QR...

Here is Senator Rand Paul's endorsement of Mitt Romney for President:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c5odNzKVbk

I am supporting Gary Johnson, the Libertarian Party candidate. Rand Paul's plan is a failing strategy and embarrassing, disheartening and wrong.

A lot of Ron Paul supporters will be voting for Gary Johnson

just like a lot of Ron Paul supporters will be voting for Virgil Goode. Just because you choose not to vote for the Republican candidate and throw a protest vote over Gary Johnson's way doesn't mean you can't help us take over the GOP. We're not going to take over the Republican Party in six months, a year, or even four years. My guess is it will take a good eight years before we can have the same amount of influence on the GOP that the Neoconservatives have. Remember, it took them over fifteen years to take over the Republican Party. Ron Paul's strategy isn't failing, it's succeeding. Nobody expected us to be able to convert 50 million Republicans to our cause in just four years. But, like I said, just because you're voting for Gary Johnson doesn't mean you can't and shouldn't help us get like-minded Republican candidates elected to Congress and the Senate.

I could never vote

for a pro-abortion candidate from any party.
An I suggest that most RP supporters are the same way.

Well, I wouldn't either.

But, I was just pointing out that some will vote for Johnson just as some will vote for other third party candidates. If RP supporters want to vote for Obama in order to try to throw the election, I don't believe we should argue over it. At this point, the best thing we can do is all unite to get Ron Paul Republicans elected to Congress and Senate.

wrong contrast

Contrast with Dr Ron Paul's speech at the Texas convention.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BS7AFqukV0&feature=youtu.be

Ok Mr. one week and a day TrevorDarden -- Naughty Naughty!

You did not do what I asked, did you? You did NOT read the 5 essays.

Ok, Trevor, you did your thing and joined one week. Woopidy doo!

You posted some video propaganda for GJ.

But do you really expect US to listen to YOU when YOU cannot and will not LISTEN to us in the rEVOLution?

You want to sell us on GJ, fine, we get that. Now GO READ the 5 essays that we took the trouble with to TEACH YOU why the REVOLution works and NOT the LP.

Treg

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

I voted for Ron Paul in 1988

and donated the max to his campaign in 2008 and again this year. I have been a member of the Daily Paul for over 5 years until I was banned for predicting what was going to happen. And sadly it has. So I don't feel intimidated and I am backing the candidate who will be on the ballot for liberty in 2012 in November.

Well that makes two of us TrevorDarden

Now, those 5 essays are for you (and other GJ LP lovers).

So, you'll need to address those arguments to get the r3VOLution to turn BACK to the LP. After all, the r3VOLution is bigger than the LP... and has reasons for breaking away from the LP.

Treg

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

This post should be required reading

For every person that visits this website.

OP speaks the truth. Most Daily Paulers want to be "Cool" and "Outsiders". That's not how to advance the liberty movement.

Making friends and changing minds has been how Ron Paul has done it since the 90s.

Be Ron Paul - NOT BOB BARR.

reedr3v's picture

The LP degenerated in recent years after

a promising start when its nominees were Ron Paul, Russell Means, Harry Browne, Mary Ruwart Bert Blumert and other great libertian spokespeople. Like so many organizations it attracted a crowd that did not understand Liberty and watered down the message until statists like Barr and Conservative Johnson were the chosen candidates.

But it may serve some purpose; in my local area the LP is very busy, very active. It has great ads, good slogans and such. I think it might provide an easy entryway into libertarianism without being threatening to those for whom even Gary seems a bit radical, LOL. It's a starting point, after all Gary himself is a newbie Libertarian. Freshly awakening people can grow. He's young enough to do so if he's serious.

???

Ron Paul and Harry Browne were both Libertarian nominees. None of the others you mention were. Their names were advanced as candidates, but they didn't make it to the Libertarian nomination.

Check out the Wikipedia history of the LP -- scroll down to the section "Presidential tickets and results." You'll see the Presidential nominees for every election -- and the percentage of the popular vote they received. The only time they received more than 1% of the vote was Ed Clark in 1980 -- he got 1.1%. The Libertarian Party has had plenty of worthwhile ideas and some good candidates -- but no money and no success at the ballot box. I'm glad they're around, spreading their ideas, but don't mistake them for a viable political movement.

Government is the deadly enemy of freedom. Politics will not set us free, any more than you can reform the Mafia by joining it.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

Thanks, please tell this to the moderators to put it front page

Thanks.

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

and the RNC is for liberty?

and the RNC is for liberty? /facepalm

Take Ron out of the RNC and its a sad, sad picture of statist policing the world and outspending anyone in their way.

In 1988 Ron was light years ahead of many people when he saw the LP as a great choice for promoting individual liberty with their great party platform.

Ron's R3volution does not mean RNC. In fact the RNC will most likely be the last ones to give up on the state IMO with all their welfare and warfare. As Ron said it will be seen in all parties as its a reflection by all the people.

Facepalm, you have not read my essay entitled

"Why We Must Re-brand Liberty Inside the 2-Party Duopoly"

http://www.dailypaul.com/217383/go-libertarian-or-go-freedom...

Treg

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

The LP goes nowhere because of its own compromise.

It compromises and tries to soften it message, attempting to sound less radical and more like mainstream Republicans/Democrats.

For example: advocating a "Fair Tax", what a joke, there is no such thing as a fair tax. Also, picking candidates like Bob Barr(who voted for the patriot act) and Gary Johnson (who believes in "Humanitarian War").

If the LP has picked Lee Wrights as their nominee this year, they would have taken a step in the right direction, instead they went with the same broken strategy that has never worked.

Why is it Ron Paul is able to promote libertarianism more effectively than the LP?

Because he doesn't compromise, and he doesn't water down the message.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

The LP simply lost focus

Libertarianism is at the heart of individual liberty and without it we do not have a free society. To call libertarianism suicide shows a deep misunderstanding of the concept. It is what gives meaning to "Constitutionally Limited Governance" and "Defense of Individual Rights is the Role Of Government.

The progressive path is the suicide path and this is demonstrated by how many have failed on that path.

As to the LP. When they nominated (Near Neocon) Bob Barr you could see that they had been taken over by the soft Republicans who were really good at talking the talk but had no interest in the walk.

Before the influx of the soft repubs the LP was growing every year and had nearly 600 elected officials at many levels of government. It was beginning to look like they were going to see serious grown at the state level and many thought that the first national candidate would win to congress. Then the leadership changed and the party lost focus.

I suspect that the new leadership was more interested in using the membership to maintain a rich lifestyle they were not willing to earn. They didn't continue to advance the LP because they really didn't understand it themselves and did not care. They talked about "Softening the Message" and "Having a Less Radical Image".

We can see with Ron Paul that the libertarian message is best if it is not watered down.

Ron Paul

attracted people when he stopped talking about libertarian insanities and started talking about constitution and ending the wars.

he attracted people when he talked about Sound money, inflation, federal reserve.

People can follow concrete stuff and clear goals not lullabies like libertarianism.

BestRonPaulVideo, Totalitarianism http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIdBuK7_g3M#t=28m28s
BestVideo, Political Correctness http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz8pzG02oxU#t=19s
Bestbook, Totalitarianism, http://www.amazon.com/dp/0759672229

Agreed.

The LP needs some new strategies if they ever want to be taken seriously as contenders. We have to work with what we've got, and what we've got is a 2 party system. I'm surprised the RP loving Libertarians don't heed to exactly what RP has done himself. He joined the Republican party so that he had a real chance of changing anything.

As far as Gary Johnson goes, he may be better than Romney/Obama but I don't want him. I only want President Paul.

The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
-Thomas Paine

Libertarianism = Insanity

Just like Socialism. Not even 1% Americans vote Libertarian.

There has never been such an atomized libertarian society.

These libertarian and socialist ideologies were extremes produced by Ayn Rand and her demon child Greenspan who wrote for her Objectvisit newsletter to brainwash and delude White people and make them insane.

Mises was a fraud. His whole career was funded by Rockefeller foundation. Total fraud.

Ron Paul is a traditionalist, Christian, family oriented Republican.

He was libertarian only in 1988.

What we need is Constitutional govt, states rights, hard money, not federal reserve and wars which benefit Jews but bleed America.

BestRonPaulVideo, Totalitarianism http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIdBuK7_g3M#t=28m28s
BestVideo, Political Correctness http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz8pzG02oxU#t=19s
Bestbook, Totalitarianism, http://www.amazon.com/dp/0759672229

Get the H3LL off my Internet!

It must literally Hurt to have such a conflict going on inside your tiny brain.

Hope you have access to loads of ibuphrophen...

HONEST RON 2012!
LEGALIZE LIBERTY!

Libertarianism and Socialism

Socialism is cannibalism.

Libertarianism is suicide.

We reject all these ideologies. We should fight for constitution.

BestRonPaulVideo, Totalitarianism http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIdBuK7_g3M#t=28m28s
BestVideo, Political Correctness http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz8pzG02oxU#t=19s
Bestbook, Totalitarianism, http://www.amazon.com/dp/0759672229

And this Revolution would be

And this Revolution would be nowhere if the LP didn't pave the way in front of it. How can you tell who the pioneers are? They are the ones with the arrows in their backs. The LP has always been the ones with those arrows in their backs. But as for this movement, now that it all about Romney, why don't you spend time talking up him instead of talking down Johnson.

The LP did NOT "pave the way" --- it fumbled the ball

by creating a political party for a freedom liberation movements that came out of the 1960's.

And then by starting the LP in the 1970's (and for 41 years), it held us freedom fighters back as we were wedded to a failed "liberty advancing" strategy.

Read essay number 5

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

Bump

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