126 votes

Traitors are everywhere? Stop the witch hunt

Has the Bush doctrine taken over the Daily Paul? You are either with us or you are against us?

Rand Paul is now attempting to legalize hemp and OMG already people are saying we can't support a traitor.

Everyone here wants to be like Ron Paul. Let me ask this. Do we think Ron will not work with Rand anymore after this endorsement? If Rand attempts to for example stop the deployment of drones in the U.S. are we really going to stand against Rand on principle? You know, we will not support an endorser of Romney no matter what? Are there people really going to go there?

And if you say yes to that, consider this. Ron Paul worked with individuals like Ralph Nader, Dennis Kucinich to advance the cause of liberty. We are still going to need to work with those who will advance the cause of liberty. Ron always sticks to the issues. When is the last time you heard Ron say something like, "because of this comment you made, or the person you hang out with, I'm not going to support you in ending the wars"

On the subject of principles. How many delegates faked support for Romney so they could advance in the delegate process? If it is wrong on principle, then the person doing it and the significance doesn't matter. That is what principles are.

On the subject of playing politics. How many RP supporters are libertarians? Didn't they play politics to become a Republican? Aren't we all playing politics as Republican since we are against everything the modern party stands for? We are better fit as libertarians but we are all playing the game.

I'm sick of the witch hunt I'm observing going on. Now I see everyone being called a traitor because they aren't 100% like Paul. You know, Ron Paul is likely the Michael Jordan of the liberty movement. If this is the low bar for joining the movement, then we aren't going to have enough people to fill the seats in Congress to make a difference. This doesn't mean we should lower standards. All should strive to do as well as Ron Paul, but we aren't going to find many with his experience with such a young movement.

I've seen some comment that following the constitution to 100% perfection is not much to ask. Then what do we do when even Ron Paul and Judge Napolitano don't agree 100% on everything in the constitution. Would anyone here actually not vote for Ron Paul or the Judge?

TMOT is one of the very few I've seen with some actually sane comments. This is about us, not about Rand or any single individual. We got to carry on. This is such a very small thing in the big scale of the movement. I've already seen some people post they are going to quit and give up. OMG, really! Ron Paul has endured 30 years of ridicule, laughter, called crazy, and was mostly alone for most of this time. And some here of already come undone over this?

If this isn't strategy and Rand sold out it will be become clear. He won't be able to hide it. We got work to do for liberty and right now staying stuck on this distraction is only hurting.

UPDATE:
There have been a number stating below that Ron Paul only supports individual policy of those he is not in ideological agreement. He would never support such a person to political office.
He did vote for John Boehner
http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/112/house/1/2
This obsession with ideological purity is not healthy. We are starting to do to ourselves what the government does to us. What next? Liberty checkpoints? Searches to make sure you are pure? Have you watched Fox or listened to Hannity lately? Maybe you aren't a true supporter.

In no way am I asserting Rand gets a free pass, but this is expanding into something I don't see as helpful. Consider the other possible perceptions. Ron Paul supporters now consider politics more important than policy as they look to cleanse Rand Paul and others from the movement not on policy but on politics. Ron Paul supporters are working harder to now remove Rand than Obama.

If you are going to go on the attack against Rand. Consider you better have a game plan to replace him with someone better. The liberty movement will have to find and build support for a better candidate. Otherwise, you are hastily setting up a scenario where Rand Paul's senate seat becomes vulnerable and could be replaced with a full blooded neo-con.



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This is basically my opinion on the whole ordeal

Thanks VoteLiberty. You have made it into my favorite poster list for being a sane person in insane times. Keep your eyes on the ball. We are winning. This victory is not the for the president, but one of the mind. This is an intellectual revolution. Keep it in perspective.

May the LORD bless you and keep you
May the LORD make His face shed light upon you and be gracious unto you
May the LORD lift up His face unto you and give you peace
Follow me on Twitter @ http://twitter.com/Burning_Sirius

What?

I can't speak for the everyone else but that is not at all what I'm saying. I'll support Rand any time he stands by a libertarian principle, as I do for everybody else, but I will no longer support his political ambitions. His vote in favor of sanctions on Iran and his endorsement and campaigning for a man who is the antithesis of everything I believe in is unforgivable in my book. The reason I supported Ron Paul was because he was the greatest single force at inspiring people to study libertarianism and Austrian economics in my lifetime. Rand Paul does not fit that bill for me. There are much better causes than his political ambitions that I can get behind to advance liberty. So rather than spend my time, money, and energy promoting Rand, I'll spend it promoting LRC, mises.org, Tom Woods's Liberty Classroom, The Mises Academy, etc. They have earned my trust and they are much more effective at educating people about the ideas I believe in. I'm sorry if my supporting other causes instead Rand Paul upsets the people looking for a politician to save them but I have more important things to worry about. If you would rather focus your energy on Rand's political aspirations, well, nobody is stopping you.

Missed the Activists Whole Point

Rand Paul endorsed Romney while we, the Activists, are still campaigning. Contrary to Rand, don't believe "can't win the nomination." Free People never give up. Why, oh why, didn't Rand wait until after Tampa?
We had the momentum going into June and now we're confused and bewildered like sheeple.

I'm not

confused or a sheeple

I've long been supportive & inclusive Liberty/Freedom across

party lines and am glad to see you write: "Ron Paul worked with individuals like Ralph Nader, Dennis Kucinich to advance the cause of liberty. We are still going to need to work with those who will advance the cause of liberty."

This is why it has been difficult for me to see some people treat Governor Johnson so badly here.

On the other hand, I must apologize to everyone for saying that Rand's action was a "ridiculous sell-out." I apologize. It is that I clearly recall Rand saying "Only one Paul runs (in a Presidential race) at a time." And I interpreted this to mean that he would remain in support of the nomination until the "OFFICIAL" nominating convention was over.

I still feel stunned and I am working on remembering that Rand is free to make his own judgments and strategies. They may not be choices I would make, and I feel I do have a right to say so; but I do not have a right to judge him and call him a sell out. That was wrong.

In closing I will add that IMO we are all growing and maturing through our process here and as we learn tolerance and acceptance, perhaps our words will show more wisdom and largesse. Peace & Freedom

Gwen Kraft

"Personal Liberty & Personal Responsibility" -- Dr. Ron Paul

"A hero is someone who understands the responsibility that comes with his freedom." -- Bob Dylan

Broken Heart

I can only imagine that Ron Paul's silence on Rand/Romney is really the sound of his heart breaking. And I am not trying to be a bully when I say this: When Rand Endorses Romney, he is telling you that Romney is who he thinks you should vote for. You simply cannot explain it away. That is what an endorsement is...

Sorry folks. Rand has crossed over to the dark-side, whether he continues to play Senator or not. My hope is that he will get such a backlash that he will repent of this nonsense and renounce Romney...I can want a miracle, right? :)

Until the Election is Won!
Chaplain Steve
Ron Paul - Lion of the Constitution

Miracle Time

You can expect a miracle because God is on our side. Reason: Love and Freedom are the promise and the good News of the church. Have faith in Reason, Love and Freedom and you are blessed by the Creative Force that created and rules the Universe. Yee! Haw! Go Ron Paul.

Great point about the stealth

Great point about the stealth delegates. If its ok to endorse Romney to be a delegate, why then must Rand be a traitor?

This is a great article written by Murray Rothbard

on the cult of Ayn Rand. I believe the reason we're seeing so many attacks on Rand Paul and even on Ron Paul is that we've got a lot of Randian cultists around here who saw Ron Paul the same way Ayn Rand's followers saw her. Now that Ron Paul's son has "gone over to the dark side" and Ron has remained silent, many are destroyed because their demigod (Ron) is turning out to be human after all. Every libertarian should read this.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard23.html

Excellent read.

I remember reading this article as one of a number of sources of freeing myself from the hyper-dogmatic Objectivist ideology I used to adhere to, and is very appropriate in this context. There is a term for what is going on right now, and that is idolatry, where the man becomes an object of worship and the message and all the reality that goes with it starts to be lost.

Hopefully most of these wayward true-believers will start to grow in their minds and realize that the nuances and complexities of politics don't always necessitate a complete meltdown, though I will admit that there are times when a meltdown of this magnitude are called for, especially after hearing Marco Rubio's revolting foreign policy speech.

What Rand done was in poor political judgement.

If Rand was going to endorse the Republican nominee he should have done it in September. Never once would he have had to mention Romney's name. Only that he supported the Republican nominee. And what has really peeved me off... Rand announced it on of all places on the piece-of-neocon-spit Sean Hannity's Show. Talk about a slap in the face.

I don't know

If you are going to do a meaningless endorsement that you don't want the RP community to take seriously then maybe you do it on a show that the RP community doesn't take seriously. Could be that the message was not intended for the supporters.

If Rand did his endorsement from here or the campaign website it really would seem he is sending the message to us, vs. going on a show which we all ignore the content to begin with.

Hope you are right

I sure hope you are right - this is painful...

Until the Election is Won!
Chaplain Steve
Ron Paul - Lion of the Constitution

Divide and conquer

Rand is the wedge.

Keep it up people, their plan is working.

=======
RON PAUL 2012

No I think the real wheat from the tares is being sifted is more

how I would explain it!!

You're Doing Their Job For Them

Don't you know the Romney/Obama rats are laughing at how they have us all bickering amongst ourselves instead of focusing on spreading the message and getting delegates? This is just what they want us to do! STOP IT! MOVE ON! GET TO WORK AND QUIT WHINING! It's not about Rand and never really was. It's about changing the status quo! It's about changing policy!

skippy

But if they want us to do this

Shouldn't we put on a show then?

Who gives a damn what we in fight about for a couple of days so long as we all come back and work the cause.

If anything, the noise about all this should bother the Obamney candidates. Their supporters don't give a damn about what Obamney does or doesn't do because they are they to toe the party line.

Nice speech but I have a

Nice speech but I have a direct question for you: Will you vote for Romney in November and, if so, please justify this decision?

No

Nothing stated was intended to lead you to think otherwise.

Thanks for the direct answer.

Thanks for the direct answer.

I'm writing in Paul....period.

I'm writing in Paul....period.

I'll never vote for another criminal if I can help it

No one will

And no one is asking you to

RAND IS...

For the 4th time, stop repeating this nonsense. An endorsement IS a request for others to follow your lead and to vote for the person/referendum endorsed.

You know this now, so stop repeating your nonsense that Rand isn't asking us to vote Romney. THAT'S WHAT ENDORSEMENTS ARE!

"Truth is an absolute defense to the charge of paranoia."

Rand is asking us. That's

Rand is asking us. That's why he made a public endorsement!!!! Do yo intend to vote for Romney???? I have tried to sincerely answer your questions. Some reciprocity please.

Maybe he expected us to be

Maybe he expected us to be astute enough to realize it was a political maneuver and that we would just carry on with the original mission.

Maybe. But until that is a

Maybe. But until that is a known fact, Rand does not deserve the benefit of the doubt.

F.

what have you done to deserve the benefit of the doubt

I wager Rand has done more to deserve it than you have.

I probably shouldn't respond

I probably shouldn't respond to this since I have made my point in other posts and I don't want to go overboard with these posts.

However.... What are you talking about Thimbleberry? I don't deserve the benefit of the doubt from you or anyone else who doesn't know me personally, at least not more than you might give to any fellow human being who you have no specific reason to doubt.

But Rand clearly made a deal to benefit his future political career at the expense of his father's campaign. There is no other reason to make this endorsement prior to the Tampa convention, unless he was sincerely expecting people here at DP to go out stumping for Romney afterwards, or unless he sincerely believes in Romney's message over his dad's.

Or do you think he expected this to galvanize the liberty movement and tip the scales in his father's favor?

F.

Astute? An astute person

Astute? An astute person would surely take note of the fact that Rand did not campaign for delegates at a single state convention, many of which occurred on weekends when he was free from his congressional duties.

No

Again

I will not vote Romney and I expect none of us will

An endorsement after a candidate is The nominee, yes Ron lost, is not the same as an endorsement before. Rands endorsement was done for one reason, to give delegates cover at the convention. He is not asking you to vote Romney, nor will he ever. He is asking you to be an adult, and make up your own mind on what to do.

Now enough with the rand bashing