There are 2 types of people on the DailyPaul; those that think Rand is a traitor and those that think Rand is a strategist
Submitted by sovereignjanice on Tue, 06/12/2012 - 21:02There are 2 types of people on the DailyPaul; those that think Rand is a traitor and those that think Rand is a strategist. And to me, I really don't care.
If you think Rand has gone to the dark side because his endorsement hurts our chances of winning the nomination, then you can't let that change YOU. It was me, you and everyone else that has changed this party for the better. We now have controlling chairs (I'm pretty sure) in Iowa, Maine and Nevada because of our efforts. To get Ron the nomination, we must do everything we can to get delegates to Tampa. We must work to have our people named as delegates and those who already are named, we must work to ensure that they physically get there to ensure the nomination. That was always on our shoulders. No reason it should change now.
If you think Rand is a strategist and his endorsement will help change the party platform in Tampa then your job is EXACTLY THE SAME as it is for those who feel disenfranchised. You need to get as many people named as delegates and those who already are named, you must work to ensure that they physically get there in order for us to have the most influence on the platform.
Whether you hang Rand's picture on your wall on a frame, or hang it on the wall to throw darts at it, it really doesn't matter. We both have the same mission AND THAT'S GETTING DELEGATES AND MAKING SURE THEY GO TO TAMPA.
So next time anyone complains on either side of the issue, please include whether you were a delegate or alternate for your convention, how many other people you personally got to sign up as delegates in addition to yourself or how much you have contributed to getting those people to Tampa. Otherwise I'm not going to take you seriously.
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Rand watched his Father challenge the system all those years
I would be willing to bet he feels there is a better way, just as most sons do when they watch their fathers long enough. I'm sure Rand wants to expedite his efforts to attain his goals faster. The problem is that he must compromise in order to do so. If he is not careful he could end up emulating Romney and not Ron.
Romney has always danced the political two step to further his political grasp. Remember Newt? His focus was always on the money and he made choices to enhance his own personal wealth. Both Newt and Romney are motivated by some gain. Rand probably thinks his motives are pure and that he is impervious to corruption but he's taking the path of temptation and I for one will not follow him.
So no I do not think he is a traitor or strategist. I think he thinks he is strategizing, unfortunately it is inside a political blender.
Then there are those who believe you should
keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer.
www.gunowners.org
I am done fighting and argueing over this
Everyone has a right to vote or endorse whoever they choose.
Everyone has a right to play this politics game anyway they feel works best for them.
If you don't like how someone vote or endorses then find another candidate you can agree with, or none at all OR compromise yourself.
Its hard to say it but if you want 100% liberty, we really can't be running around pissed off because someone decided what is best for THEM.
Now will some sheep vote for a mitt romney due to this endorsement? Not sure BUT I need to realize just like many others, these people are making up THEIR MIND and voting THEIR VOTE even if YOU THINK it is couterproductive to our movement.
It is what it is and while it hurts to see someone as amazing as rand endorse a p.o.s. like mittens in all honesty it really is none of my damn business.
What is my business is who I support, who I vote for, who I endorse. We can't go around FORCING LIBERTY no matter how much we think it can work.
I wanted ron to win in 08, I teared up numerous times while Dr. Paul spoke in 07/08. He is the only person in my entire life who made me really think about what we as humans need to strive for and to be honest the way I over reacted to someone using THEIR voice to make their own endorsement makes me embarrassed of myself.
Am I in agreement with rand? hell no BUT I need to stick to my own vote, voice and opinion and leave others to do the same.
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There's more than 2. I think Rand is a strategist
But I think he made a mistake in misunderstanding the liberty movement. It's not just 'conservatives,' but 'liberals' too and is largely independent.
And an endorsement for Mitt Romney is a slap in the face to many of these people.
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
You forgot
Those of us who don't really care which it is. Ron Paul is our candidate Rand is his son and a senator not our candidate. Rand speaks for Rand. Ron Paul spoke at the Texas convention the same day, and he is not behind any uniting of the party behind mittens or anything else except for the Constitution and liberty.
http://www.dailypaul.com/238185/live-stream-ron-paul-speech-...
yea, but I really didn't care
yea, but I really didn't care to include those that really don't care. LOL, jk ;)
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I love Ron Paul, but
There's a lot of evidence that he sold us out
Unless he runs independent or The delegates prevail and he goes a different course from which him and Rand are on
Rand endorsing Romney is Ron endorsing Romney
Please respond because I hope I'm wrong
btw, what's the evidence you
btw, what's the evidence you have?
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don't worry
There is no evidence.
Ron Paul is NOT a liar.
Alex Jones has been swaying people with his "Ron IS Rand"
...that they are one person. And they are both with Romney.
AJ's listeners just haven't found out what AJ does to anyone in the liberty movement that steals some of his spotlight.
They need to know exactly what AJ did to liberty candidate Debra Medina.
Alex went completely nuts, days before a Medina WIN in TX.
Calling her "scum" and torching her campaign like a political arsonist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LSPB14tfKo
I don't see Ron endorsing
I don't see Ron endorsing Romney. Rand said months ago that he would endorse whoever the nominee was and that included Romney so we saw this coming.
I don't think Rand's endorsement would effect Ron's. I can't speak for your family, but I could never tell my father what to do, lol.
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There are more than 2 types here.
I have maintained a consistent view of Rand for many months now.
I never thought him to be the new liberty movement leader due to a very short voting record. He is one of the best Senators we have, if not the best and I hope he stays there for many years fighting the establishment. Give him another 8 to 12 years of a great voting and leadership record in the US Senate and I could vote for him as President. Before the endorsement, I was disappointed to see so many calling for Rand to be the legitimate successor of Ron Paul, ascending to the leader position through bloodline.
After the endorsement, I am equally disappointed to see so many label him as a traitor or as a brilliant strategist. He is neither. He is not a traitor until he votes to take away our freedoms. His endorsement of Mitt did not surprise me as he was only taking the easy path. He could have taken the difficult path, bucked the establishment like Ron Paul has for many years and faced the same primary competition chosen and sponsored by the GOP in an attempt to remove him from office.
I have said it before
I have no opinion on Rand, but I like some of the bills he comes up with.
a nod's as good as a wink to a blind bat
Different View
The two types are the ones who lost hope thinking they were betrayed and the ones who still hope Rand and Ron will pull a miracle at Tampa.
The fires of liberty have been lit, the wind is blowing. It cannot be extinguished
I'm with you,
I still hope. Those who claim to know should check the status of their intellectual honesty as well as their history of betting on winners and losers. If they were all that able to spot the truth they could be handsomely rewarded at the race track (or Wall Street, take your pick).
New Hampshire and Ecuador.
Rand is gone. forget him.
Rand is campaigning for ORomney
Rand stated clearly he didn't agree with he father on
certain things and that he isn't libertarian
Rand Paul plainly said "They thought all along that they could call me a libertarian and hang that label around my neck like an albatross, but I'm not a libertarian,"...
From the March 17th Time magazine:
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1972721,00....
down the road, maybe, this site should have the name
the Daily RON Paul (That's merely a humble suggestion for the future)
Harding went in with 6% and won the nomination.
keep working for RON Paul, and on to Tampa!
Time will tell.
Time is also running out.
Janice, I have sent you an email.
There is still work to be done.
And yes, even after Tampa there is still work to be done :-)
"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul
I understand why Rand did the
I understand why Rand did the endorsement and I don't have a big issue with it. However, I don't think any of us really agree that the nomination is over until after Tampa. As long as we do that honestly and peacefully, we should work as hard as we can to the absolute end to get Ron nominated POTUS. I can see no distiction between that at Tampa and working just for muscle with the platform. It's all the same thing.
If Rand wants to negotiate with the Pirates who've long held control of the party I understand the reasoning, but that should not stop us from doing eveything possible to try and throw as many of them as possible overboard off the Party Ship politically speaking in the meantime.
Sorry in advance
but this post got it stuck in my head...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVhJ_A8XUgc&t=31s
"We don't need a Department of Energy; we need a Department of Freedom" - RP
"We need to defend liberty.. and liberty!" - RP
So what happens if I dont fall neatly into your collectives?
What if I disagree with what Rand did and with his strategy for effecting change and believe other avenues more effective?
What if furthermore I dont condemn him and will support him on everything I do agree with him on?
Everyone makes compromises in this game, everyone of us, even Ron Paul. He's had to endorse some real losers as well to play the game. The very fact of us joining the republican party and giving it any credibility at all is a compromise in and of itself. I think Rand's endorsement personally was going over the line but regardless we can still get some good out of him while we prepare others we find more "true" to join the fight in congress, in the party, in all the seats of power. Rand does not make or break this movement. He is an overwhelming net positive and has shown great courage to march right into the viper pit of DC, despite his flaws and more cautious measured nuanced approach. Id prefer he be the uncompromising Lion that his father was in defense of liberty rather than the tamer of establishment lions and snakes, but there may be some merit in his approach that will bear fruit after all. Perhaps more, perhaps less.
In the meantime focus your energy on what YOU can do. Avoid every temptation to divide and turn on each other. Stick hard to YOUR own principles that you say you uphold. Don't begrudge others if they don't meet your expectations or choose a different path. You can not control them. Only encourage them to do better, persuade them patiently, admonish them when they falter, and find those who you do find do meet your standards and expectations. I'm afraid the only one you will be able to find is the one staring you in the mirror, and I have doubts even that person is up to muster for many people.
Bottom line Let Rand do his thing. You do yours. We'll do ours. If you agree with his approach back him up. If you don't, say your piece and move on, find someone or something else to push forward in the cause of liberty. There are many fronts to this battle, fortunately we are a multi-pronged threat. We have so many diverse yet allied forces attacking the establishment from every angle right now its a sight to behold! Don't lose hope. Don't give in. Don't get caught up in the inner warfare. We are winning the real battle. Never forget that and never stop moving forward even if it's just you against the world where you live. It was all up to YOU from the beginning anyway, not anyone else, and will be forever more. Do your best and may God bless!
Best post I have read all week!
Thank you poq, I admire your FOCUS.
If you don't fall into either
If you don't fall into either category then you are just weird. You are a freak of nature that should be studied and never let out into society where you would have the chance to breed. lmao!! I'm sooo just kidding.
At least we agree on the fact that it's all up to us, not our figureheads.
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haha Indubitably
It's just nice when they do what we think they should do ;)
my job
There are 21 seats on my republican central committee, 8 are occupied, and only the chair and me show up to every meeting.
my job is to get those seats filled with Ron paul Republicans.
This is how hard it is: There are over 1700 registered Republicans in my county district, 48 showed up to vote
(60% are forced to vote absentee,, so that on adverage meant about 120 Republicans voted.. 15 for Ron Paul. I don't know anyone in my county who would show up to a republican central committee meeting.. they all have excuses.
Ron paul campaign named me a delegate, Romney won the state 79%, Romney delegates are going to Tampa, all 172 of them.
YES THE ELECTION WAS RIGGED, but since the govt count the votes.. Stalin rules.
STAND WITH RAND 2016
I understand. IL is
I understand. IL is controlled by Flip Romney zombies. something we can do is create a database of contact info of RP supporters and inform them of who their liberty candidates are, when to vote for them and where to vote for them. Spoon feeding, I know, but it's what we have to do.
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What if I think treason was his strategy? :P
What if I think treason was his strategy? :P
“Politicians are like diapers; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.” ― Mark Twain
"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world."
lol, well you're more than
lol, well you're more than likely to have that opinion, but as stated at the end, you must list your personal contributions to obtaining delegates for me to listen to your argument. ;)
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Actually, make that three.
Actually, make that three. There are those of us who don't care either way. We have our eye on the prize of liberty.
Blessings )o(
Two views
There are times to compromise in life and there are times when one should refuse to compromise.
There are some who consider the situation to be an ethical or moral decision (non-compromising situation)
Others view the actions as a strategic situation to give now in order to gain later (compromise is acceptable).
It seems to me that the basic disagreement and debate is over which category people feel Rand's action belongs.
good point
good point
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In other words
There are two types of posts on the Daily Paul:
1) Those that talk about Rand Paul
2) Those that talk about something useful or even fleetingly interesting