-29 votes

Downvoting

I think the downvoting feature on the Daily Paul has had a net negative effect on the atmosphere here. In the past, if you wanted to be critical and felt it was necessary to counter someone's argument, you had to actually reply, which takes thought and effort. Now, people just anonymously and reflexively downvote. I feel like it has injected a bit of a mob-mentality here.

The "Farewell Daily Paul" posts are increasing, some from brand new members. Many of them mention a feeling of hostility here.

Has anyone else noticed this?

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I've been back and forth on it

I remember the pre voting days. It was all about ideas. You had to defend your ideas and people formed their own opinion on who was right or sythesized their own opinion and joined the debate. No one was right or wrong based on the predominant feeling, upvote/downvote, of the masses. They were right or wrong based on their ideas and whether others supported or didnt support those ideas with their own comments.

Now people see that a comment or post has been downvoted and either dog pile on or simply skip over it feeling not worth their time. Or the opposite effect with upvotes. This has been useful in quickly identifying troll posts and trouble makers or identifying good comments and posts, but has had the unfortunate effect of quelling debate and creating a hive mind. Unpopular posts and comments are not being debated like they used to, they are being squelched. Personally I didnt care for those unpopular comments and posts but I did appreciate the debate they stirred and the counter comments that came of them. The voting system has unfortunately, and perhaps predictably, discouraged debate here. Passionate informed debate has been one of the shining jewels of this site. Now I fear people not piping up because they fear or don't want to be bothered with the onslaught of downvotes and troll accusations they will receive.

The voting system here, though well intended and somewhat useful, seems to have become a lazy way for people to disagree without having to put their reasons. I really like the voting system but I feel it would be best for discussion if it were removed or modified somehow.

Perhaps only an upvote mechanism, only the creme will rise to the top. And for trolls and egregious rule breakers, strictly not for unpopular comments and threads, a "flag if offensive" button. Unpopular comments or threads will just remain at 0 until they receive support and traction from people who agree. They will appear no different than any other recently made comment or thread ensuring no predjudice.

Could a system like that work? What do you think?

Yes

Perhaps only an upvote mechanism, only the creme will rise to the top. And for trolls and egregious rule breakers, strictly not for unpopular comments and threads, a "flag if offensive" button. Unpopular comments or threads will just remain at 0 until they receive support and traction from people who agree. They will appear no different than any other recently made comment or thread ensuring no predjudice.

Could a system like that work? What do you think?

As I said before, I think downvoting invites immature behavior. I also think this is why Facebook resists a "unlike" button.

Besides, keeping it positive (only upvoting allowed) is arguably The Way of Ron Paul.


"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."

Minarchism
track

If you are critical

and use reason and logic when providing a counter-argument, I think most RP supporters are level-headed enough to acknowledge it without downvoting. Also:

- Some "new members" (as of late) have been trolls who deserve the hostility coming their way

- "Farewell Daily Paul" posts are from whiners who are desperate for attention and would serve the DP better if they actually did leave the site

The ones that are now leaving are the ones with the knowledge

So your theory is wrong and will hurt the progress of the movement. As I said when the Generals quit something is wrong.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Hey ATrue -

I'm back. I was unable to post for a few days - I got a "service unavailable" message whenever I tried to reply or post. I'm touched that you picked up on my absence - you are aware of my wavelength :) Oh well - it seems to be fixed now.

Like you, there are a lot of wise people I miss around here. There's no denying it's a different crowd.

Prove it.

Who, that you know of to be a major contributor to the Daily Paul, has stopped posting (i.e. "left the site") here without posting a silly "farewell" thread?

The Daily Paul is still going strong!

northstar's picture

You have no idea User 49035

That's a pretty high number.

That's a question the membership, mods or otherwise don't have to answer.

Some publicly said they quit, some just left quietly. But the fact does remain, we lost some very nice people.

Real eyes realize real lies

We want our country back

Every year is a year for Ron Paul!

I get it. I'm relatively new here.

I had been lurking since November 2011 when I first started taking RP seriously, finally registered soon after the Florida primary (5100 is considerably lower than 49035).

I promise I'm not trying to troll or stir up trouble here. I just think it may be difficult to even tell who quit for what reasons. And wouldn't you suppose that newer, knowledgeable people are always joining here, effectively taking their place?

northstar's picture

Absolutely

But we should have not lost any members period. It means one thing, something is wrong and we have to fix it. Some people hung in there and slogged through the muck and sometimes they don't make it out. That does not mean they didn't try. Sometimes stuff people post around here pushes people away, maybe without intention but the end result is the same.

I guess everyone has their own interpretation of common sense.

Real eyes realize real lies

We want our country back

Every year is a year for Ron Paul!

Now that was very well said my friend.

.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

northstar's picture

I've been through it too

Bought the T-shirt and video and went home. Sometimes people need a break and come back as I did. It doesn't mean anything got fixed, it just meant I had time to think about stuff in my quiet little corner of the internet.

DP is so dynamic and moving all the time. Sometimes it gets in a rut on some stuff and it just stays there for a while and to some, it is very distracting and upsetting.

When I post, I have to ask myself first...will the members accept this? If they do, great. If not, I let it go. I'm not going to argue or pester people by shoving my post in their face.

Real eyes realize real lies

We want our country back

Every year is a year for Ron Paul!

Star,It used to be this way all the time here.

By the way,Linda showed up from the past and is now inviting her sister to come into traveler.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

A roll call request to DP users that have "Taken a break"

Please find the time to log in just one time and roll call below this post. If you could find the time please jot a few words why you did leave? Thank you very much for your time to share with us!

ATruepatriot.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Instead of " no child left behind"

no thread left behind

LOL

http://shelfsufficient.com - My site on getting my little family prepped for whatever might come our way.

http://growing-elite-marijuana.com - My site on growing marijuana

Downvotin' Upvotin'

Downvoting, Upvoting.. just a game, gets in the way.

At first I thought that it would be good, now.. whatever.

With an attitude
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RiLM4Id1SY

The vote down is useful, imo.

I understand about not voting down someone without a comment as to what you believe is not correct about one's post. But it is best to not comment or reply to a troll. That's when the down vote comes in very handy. I, for one, would not want to see it go.

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox

If a reply gets no votes at all

Then it will also show lack of interest and expose the trolls. It will hurt them more if they get nothing for their troll reply. If they see downvotes you are playing into their hands and they know this. It will give them self gratification that they have succeeded in "Getting your goat". Why do this? They are here to get as many downvotes as possible!

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Bump for more discussion

I am not the OP, so I am not self bumping this post. So in no way am I violating house by laws. I am hoping I am not the only one to see this trend.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

northstar's picture

It could be fixed I think

The voting system should include a 'weighting' formula.

If a post is voted down, the weighting increases and the post just can't get bumped up to the top, it's too heavy.

If a post is voted up, it gets less weighting and tends to hover higher up in the article lists.

One could argue the voting system is already weighted in a sense, but it doesn't seem that way to me. Tie the popularity of a post to a formula so it is positioned according to the degree of the vote count.

Real eyes realize real lies

We want our country back

Every year is a year for Ron Paul!

Lol, I have commited myself man

Don't try to save me my friend,Lol. This really deserves discussion! It is a very negative and devisive feature. Why is it needed or even necessary? Upvotes only would be a much less cruel way to handle the environment and mentality of the movement. Why do we insist we have to allow cruelty to one another? We are losing so many old timers over this feature that it will destroy the place in the end. Who will we have left to share the knowledge and wisdom? It will be lost.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

northstar's picture

I was trying to address both sides

DP thrives on many things here. Be it opinion peices, videos, news stories, etc....it has to cater somehow to serve supporting and opposing views. In this case, people like to vote on posts. Like I said, I'm not a big fan of it, but it's there. Comments would have no bearing on the posts score. It's the post I am focusing on only. So if a post has a bad score and people comment on it, the post just won't get boosted to the top as they do now.

I'm not going to name any topics here, but lets say someone posts and it's getting a bad score. Some people like to agitate others by bumping these posts up. If the score is bad, it just won't make it to the top of the lists because the bad scores weighting is too 'heavy'.

I know we all have differences and views here and I get upset about some posts too and downvote. I don't want the post to go away per say, I just want it placed according to it's weight in relation to all the other posts in the list. People won't be able to bump up rotten posts to the top when they comment. That's what I would like to see if voting remains here.

Basicly, I was just trying to cope with what we have right now and look for a idea that would allow the voting to be used ... fairly.

Real eyes realize real lies

We want our country back

Every year is a year for Ron Paul!

I know you see it man,And I understand.

But do you have any idea how many times folks have been downvoted right after they got here just because their post was MISUNDERSTOOD?

Instead of someone asking if that is what they meant to say, they are downvoted out of the DP. Not a nice way to welcome someone.

After that I wouldn't come back and I wouldn't recommend it as a site to visit.

See I observe this kind of stuff because I unlike most, Think of others first and not myself as a priority. So did Quiltingsando and Lao Tzua.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

northstar's picture

Very true

I didn't think about the whole voting spectrum regarding new users too. That is a great point.

If something can't be fixed with the voting, then I don't want it either.

Real eyes realize real lies

We want our country back

Every year is a year for Ron Paul!

The fix would be upvoting only

This would eliminate the saddist effect of the voting process. Because seriously, it is a saddist avenue of expression. Those that use it are using it to harm someone elses feelings. Really do we as a peaceful movement approve of Saddism? Then we may as well be looking for another war to start because we feel we need to express ourselves in this manor. Sorry, Wrong way to think.

I love you man! Lol.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

northstar's picture

Upvoting might work

My only question left is what happens when rotten posts get upvoted too? Grabbing my laptop and heading to the coffeeshop, it's hot in my place lol

Real eyes realize real lies

We want our country back

Every year is a year for Ron Paul!

Catch you in traveler

It is pretty simple. Rotten posts will not recieve any if at all upvotes. This is a fact from observing the sadistic mentality around here.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Absolutely disgraceful !

Now it appears that two of the most lovely,Friendly,Peaceful and Wisest ladies have now left the DP. I am now ashamed to be part of the "program" and " agenda" here. What an absolute disgrace. First Quiltingsando and now Lao Tzua. We should all hang our heads in absolute disgust.

You Jon, should be the very first to not see that your selfish interests would eventually destroy this site. If it was your intent to do so, then you have achieved your goal. This used to be the pinnacle of the Liberty movement and now it is a cancer that cannot be cured. I hang my head in sadness of recent events and attribute them to outright greed and monetary gain.

When the Generals leave, there is a problem.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Huh? When did our friend, Lao Tzua leave us?

One of us needs to re-read the thread. I didn't see anything that said she was gone.

Jon has selfish interests? I hadn't noticed that. How are you coming to your conclusions? Outright greed and monetary gain? Who's getting paid to be a Mod?

Are you feeling alright, ATruepatriot?

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox

I was saddened when I checked on her as a friend

Click on her user name and see when her last post and reply was. Some of us folks care about one another,Too bad more do not.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

3 days?

Last post on Friday... warm Fathers Day weekend... today is Monday. I don't think she's gone from DP. Just doing other things right now.

One of the best things about the Daily Paul members is that we are just like family and really do care about each other. Not to say we always agree but, have you read any posts where someone asked for help or advice with something personal (other than money) and didn't get any?

My question to you was not at all meant as sarcasm. It was out of concern, since I don't understand why you are being so down about things.

P.S. I have to sign off now, so don't be offended if you reply to this and I don't answer right away.

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox