43 votes

Groupthink Disorder…and why we are a Republic and not a Democracy! PS: Ron Paul is WINNING.

The delegate process to a nomination for a party’s presidential candidate is complicated and many-faceted. Not to mention one has to deal with at least 50 different constructs and sets of rules and bylaws!

Having said that, there is a scientific reason that we don’t just go with the “tyranny of the majority” of a democracy…and rather use the method of a constitutional republic, instead.

In theory, a pure democracy protects the rights of the majority. This is often known as the "tyranny of the majority". That is all well and good, as long as you are in the majority. But woe betide those in the minority!

But…from a governmental model for “free” societies (as opposed to totalitarian societies)…"tyranny of the majority"…is as close to “groupthink disorder” as one can get.

In contrast, and in theory, a republic protects the rights of the minority…and more importantly…the individual.

The Founders insisted upon this for that very reason.

And so, the delegate selection process of a party’s nomination (as is currently going on in the Republican primary)…is (roughly)…to the actual primary “beauty contest” elections…as to what the Electoral College is…to the national election in November.

The delegate process, for the primary / convention nomination, just like the elector process in the final election, was meant to be a quality-control measure where, in a Darwinian sense, only the fittest survive.

So...in a REPUBLIC...if the groupthink masses would vote for some or the other candidate on the popular vote…their votes, if in conflict, would be overridden by (the more informed judgment of) the delegate and elector processes.

That is the beauty it.

Even when the popular vote is reflective of a bunch of uninformeds who have no sense in how to vote...the delegates and then the electors…decide the election in the end.

That is why Dr. Paul has focused on caucus states and the delegate process, and why...it is working.

Enter Rule 38 of the RNC which states “no delegate shall be bound by any attempt of a state or district to impose the “unit rule” (read: “groupthink rule”).

And then the RNC legal counsel confirmed this in the 2008 race that, essentially, delegates on the national level are considered to be “free agents.”

This is the rule that has the Mitt Romney regime...in a panic. And rightfully so...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grg1mPJ_DFQ

In other words (and this is the beauty of our system) that the delegates are free from groupthink pressure...free from being FORCED to vote or support for someone they don’t want to. Even if they are forced to do it at the state level...they then become unbound at the national level.

The delegates have EARNED their right at this point, as they have survived not only a mass county/city meeting, but have been elected at their congressional district, then the state, and then the national convention.

Quality control.

Wow. The founders of this country…were brrrrilliant.

~Chris

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

I just finished an article on

I just finished an article on this topic as well. Interesting, it's a totally different article but the same idea about being a republic and not a democracy. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

http://www.dailypaul.com/241334/the-united-states-a-democrac...

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
http://www.thethirdangelsmessage.com/wordpress/should-christ...

This is what a Ron Paul Supporter

Sounds Like!
Your Post is very well thought out , informative, and well written.
You have taken what most of us know and put into words.
Thank You.

No One But Ron Paul 2012!
MindyNYC

sharkhearted's picture

Thank you, Mindy. I LOVE this liberty community that we have.

Ron Paul 2012!

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

Wow

Great read, thanks Chris!

sharkhearted's picture

Thanks Mitch. Please share far and wide.

For Liberty!

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

There are some DPers putting together info to send

to the delegates. There was a thread here the other day putting a letter together (that may have turned into 2 letters), a checklist of questions, a comparision sheet, and a video.

http://www.dailypaul.com/239608/delegate-form-letter-needs-c...

Perhaps if more people see it and contribute more ideas, it could amount to something bigger.

Well done, Chris, well done!

Well done, Chris, well done!

If my need to be RIGHT is greater than my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle

It's stuff like this that we

It's stuff like this that we should be getting out there and to the other delegates.

You know, there are a lot of conventions we could have won stuff at, because there was a majority of delegates that felt this way - but we didn't educate them and they didn't know how to organize. Stood up to vote, and got railroaded anyway, and didn't know anything about making points, etc. Let's win the hearts and minds of the other delegates!

BUMP

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

sharkhearted's picture

Thanks for the bump!

We had a pretty good day in VA today.

Lot's of references to Dr. Paul...including from the RPV Chairman...and a set of resolutions condeming things like Agenda 21 and the NDAA.

Overall, a good day at the convention considering there was no money to compete with the Romney $$$.

It was a good day, and the rEVOLution is just beginning!

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

Thanks for this post

This is an extremely important discussion Americans need to have.

Individual think 2012!!

"OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

Rand Paul 2016

Auto Thumb-Up

Just for the Topic - great job.

I would add that this is the commercial democracy trying to tell the Republic (the Real government) what to do. The delegates are that real government.

YES

I waited in line at a store recently and the 4 people in front of me were all wearing sunglasses in the store; thus I put mine on as well and grinned. :)

They turned around and looked at me and I left them on until the one guy finally took his off, and the other guy and woman.

It was so funny to watch who would take theirs off first. lol

It was like one of those Milgram observations.

donvino

I am pleased someone has raised Groupthink

as it is vitally important to understand what is going on here. I started to raise Groupthink Syndrome as an issue in Europe because there it is multi-tiered, due to all the EU intervention. You can observe Groupthink at party, committee, sub-committee and topic level plus national and EU levels. If you understand the way it works, then you are better armed to help those constrained by it escape.

I have a copy of the list of symptoms but unfortunately did not keep a link:

"8 Main Symptoms of Groupthink Syndrome

Eight main symptoms run through the case studies of historic fiascoes. Each symptom can be identified by a variety of indicators, derived from historical records, observer's accounts of conversations, and participants' memoirs. The eight symptoms of groupthink are:

1. an illusion of invulnerability, shared by most or all the members, which creates excessive optimism and encourages taking extreme risks;

2. collective efforts to rationalize in order to discount warnings which might lead the members to reconsider their assumptions before they recommit themselves to their past policy decisions;

3. an unquestioned belief in the group's inherent morality, inclining the members to ignore the ethical or moral consequences of their decisions;

4. stereotyped views of enemy leaders as too evil to warrant genuine attempts to negotiate, or as too weak and stupid to counter whatever risky attempts are made to defeat their purposes;

5. direct pressure on any member who expresses strong arguments against any of the group's stereotypes, illusions, or commitments, making clear that this type of dissent is contrary to what is expected of all loyal members;

6. self-censorship of deviations from the apparent group consensus, reflecting each member's inclination to minimize to himself the importance of his doubts and counterarguments;

7. a shared illusion of unanimity concerning judgments conforming to the majority view (partly resulting from self-censorship of deviations, augmented by the false assumption that silence means consent);

8. the emergence of self-appointed mindguards - members who protect the group from adverse information that might shatter their shared complacency about the effectiveness and morality of their decisions."

Be alert for all the above symptoms. You are sure to recognize some or all.

The Republic's constitution, if followed, does much to minimize Groupthink from strangling freedom.

The secret is out. What Dr Paul will be doing in 2021 after his second term as president:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/92460104/Ex-President-Paul-Wins-20...

Great post.

Do you have a source for your 8 symptoms?

I think groupthink is a major problem permeating our culture :P

Thanks for writing all that so clear

Our local Homeowners association has the same 8 symptoms as you wrote above and its astonishing to read, and I learned what they were doing to us because it is the EXACT same as what the federal gvt is doing so I spotted it right off..
You can apply those "symptoms" to the smallest levels of American society.
Its authoritarianism that is at the bottom of it.
One man rule over the other, by any means necessary.
I personally love the fact that they get arrogant and many think about it when they are in prison, after being caught.
but
That's why I love Pauls message.
His entire philosophy of how life should be lived turns authoritarianism on its head.

"I dont want to run your lives, I wouldn't know how to!"
Ron Paul 2007

"OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

Rand Paul 2016

GroupThink...Thank You

...it would be wise for everyone to read this as a check and balance.

(There was one other time that groupthink was brought up here, but I doubt anyone caught it. I had a brief exchange with The Shazad where I was defending the unity here (LOL...it was several weeks ago when there was unity.) He said, " you know there IS some groupthink here don't you?

I have thought about that a lot recently although I never responded.

fonta

sharkhearted's picture

Wow.

Excellent. Thank you for this.

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

Taht is all fine and good

Taht is all fine and good except that Ron Paul is far smarter than you and has FAR more information that you and he iknows that AT BESAT, there will be just 500 people supporting him in Tampa.

So please...in your infinitely worthless ignorance, explain how there will magically be 644 MORe than Ron Paul himself expects?

ask karl rove

he knows.

"OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

Rand Paul 2016

Sorry, just had to drop in

to let you know you're not too bright..First, learn how to spell..Two, your infinitely worthless ignorance has seriously guided you in the wrong direction, so perhaps you should come back and try again tomorrow. If you really think there's only going to be 500 delegates representing Dr. Paul at the convention, YOU are a fool. The jokes on you and everyone like you. See you in Tampa Mitt, Rick and Newt (Assuming you three have the balls to show up that is).

De criminalize Liberty!

sharkhearted's picture

Member for 7 hours? Troll??

Thought so.

Ah...you gotta love a republic when every last poor bloke...has a pathetic voice.

Even the paid trolls like you.. So, who do you work for?? No mind, mate, i will defend your right to say whatever you want.

Its just that...whatever you have to say...is meaningless.

I don't give a rats ASS who wins the election in Nov 2012. The Liberty cat is out of the bag...and there is no going back.

For you: It is either, as the Founders said: "Join, or die."

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

EARNED Their Right

... :) They sure did! Thank you. These are the kind of posts I come to the DP for.

fonta

Pure logic

That'll have a few trolls upset.

sharkhearted's picture

Thanks. I am ready for them when they slime out from under

their bridges...

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

A few months

back I read "The Founding Fathers Guid To The Constitution" and it is a must read (and should be required reading not only in public schools but for each new congressmen/women.) Sadly, it seems that the republic is turinging into a pure democracy. With all the MSM propaganda of "Paul is stealing the conventions" and "Paul won all the delegates but lost the primary vote," they are probibly going to be changing the system after this election.

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” – Dresden James

Excellent!

bump!

sharkhearted's picture

Self bump. :-)

Chris
Norfolk, VA

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

reedr3v's picture

: )

.

Second

the bump