44 votes

Growing Secessionist Movement in Europe, starting w/Scotland; could America's 50 Republics be next?

Here's Why You Need To Be Watching Europe's Secessionist Movements
Of course, if Scotland gets out, there's a very real possibility other nations could start pushing. Few want a UK dominated by the English.

Adam Taylor and Sanya Khetani | Jan. 17, 2012, 11:00 PM | 20,004 | 14

Scotland's bid for independence looks likely to change the way that the UK works (to some degree at least), but do secessionist movements have a wider impact?

We've taken a look at Europe's various secessionist movements to show you exactly why you need to watch the situation in Scotland, and why it may have a big impact on the EU.

Or, as Lew Rockwell characterizes as:

"Decentralization and freedom vs. imperial-bankster centralism."

European Secessionist Movements
Posted by Lew Rockwell on June 19, 2012 06:13 AM

Note: the article is anti-liberty. (Thanks to Tyler Smith)

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There is also a huge

There is also a huge secessionist movement for the UK to leave the European Union federation, spearheaded by euro-sceptic conservatives, libertarians and nationalists, but not without heavy support from Greens and socialists too. Nigel Farage's secessionist UKIP party is expected to win the popular vote in the next EU federal elections in the UK. Some prominent officials within the two major mainstream parties, the Conservative Party and the Labour Party, have also pledged support for a secession referendum.

The polls are evidently in their favor: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/nov/17/eu-referendum...

Support Rand, Amash & other liberty candidates? Check out: http://www.LibertyConservatives.com/

Gerald Celente has been predicting this for a while

http://geraldcelente-blog.blogspot.com.au/2011/05/state-sece...

Lord Acton, Lord Chief Justice of England, 1875 - "The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the People v. The Banks."

Wow! In two years, there will be a referendum in Scotland for...

Independence. Can't wait, 2014.

With things going haywire in EU currently (two years prior to 2014). If it wins independence...it's going to be a boon for independence movements elsewhere, at least for the Western Hemisphere (and these 50 "United" States).

"...could America's 50 Republics be next?"

Sounds good to me. Great, actually.

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YES! True Republics are limited in territorial size

I would recommend reading the Anti-Federalist arguments against ratifying the Constitution. Here is some truth from the Not-So-Funky-Parlimentarian George Clinton of New York:

"But whoever seriously considers the immense extent of territory comprehended within the limits of the United States, together with the variety of its climates, productions, and commerce, the difference of extent, and number of inhabitants in all; the dissimilitude of interest, morals, and politics in almost every one, will receive it as an intuitive truth, that a consolidated republican form of government therein, can never form a perfect union..."

"It is natural, says Montesquieu to a republic to have only a small territory, otherwise it cannot long subsist; in a large one there are men of large fortunes and consequently of less moderation; there are too great deposits to trust in the hands of a single subject, an ambitious person soon becomes sensible that he may be happy, great, and glorious by oppressing his fellow citizens, and that he might raise himself to grandeur, on the ruins of his country. In large republics, the public good is sacrificed to a thousand views, in a small one, the interest of the public is easily perceived, better understood and more within the reach of every citizen; abuses have a less extent and of course are less protected."

It would benefit GB to let Scottland be Free based on how

Power is divided among EU participating countries.

What would William Wallace Do?

He'd Invade Lower England then France!!!!

*Kilts Up*

The Auld Alliance, 1295 until the 1560

Why would Wallace invade France? France has been historically Scotlands oldest and closest alliance against the English and that alliance well pre-dates Wallace so it's not like he wouldn't have been aware of it. :/ Braveheart was terribly inaccurate (historically speaking), Rob Roy was much better.

“Politicians are like diapers; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.” ― Mark Twain

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world."

Corbett: I was being silly

In the movie Braveheart he argued to invade lower-England. I just extended that reasoning to include France.

Of course you are right and yes I know Braveheart was inaccurate, but it had great bagpipe music.

Rob Roy was a great movie.

Sorry

Sorry :) I'm a member of a few Scottish forums and always run into other Americans who think that movie is historically accurate and swear by it.

“Politicians are like diapers; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.” ― Mark Twain

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world."

How are Scottish - Irish relations (now and historically)?

I'm actually 1/2 Irish (my dad was from Ireland -- Mom from Cuba).

I do not look Irish at all -- in fact I look like an Afghani-Jew (if you can imagine that), hahahahaha.

That being said I know that in Ireland (according to my Irish friends) that they don't hold American-Irish as being one of them; to be Irish is to be part of the culture, to speak Gaelic, and to live in Ireland right? Is it that way for Scottish or are the Scottish just happen to find "cousins" living anywhere in the world to be part of the bigger family or are they as tight-knit?

These are generalizations of course but I'm curious.

My observations

As is the case with many other cultures the world over, the Scots view us as Americans only, they acknowledge a common ancestral link but don't view us as Scottish (Similar in nature to how Africans view African Americans). The Scots also seem to hold similar views of Canadians and Australians of Scottish decent but they hold a closer bond with them as they share the connection of being apart of the commonwealth realm. Furthermore many Scots are perplexed by Americans who wear Scottish kilts and attire, while our interest in their clothing, history, customs and country has been good for their economy some still hold a sneaking suspicion that we are merely play acting (in some cases I would have to agree with that assessment) and worse still some have expressed concern that we're watering down their culture. That's not to say all Scots view it that way but I've come across it enough to take note of it. Some could care less of course as many in Scotland themselves don't own or wear a kilt or participate in burns night suppers or highland games, or anything else stereotypically Scottish.

Lastly I would ask American descendants of the Scottish diaspora to ponder why their ancestors might have left Scotland?, chances are pretty good for those of us who have been here in The States for several generations that it was the clearances which is something Scots did to fellow Scots. This of course gives rise to the question of if your ancestors were driven from their homes and country by Land Barons with torches to make room for sheep why would your ancestors or you for that matter ever want go back? Each of us has to come up with an answer to that on our own.

But as Bill Murray pointed out in Stripes "We're all very different people. We're not Watusi. We're not Spartans. We're Americans, with a capital 'A', You know what that means? Do ya? That means that our forefathers were kicked out of every decent country in the world. We are the wretched refuse. We're the underdog." There is no going back, no country wants us and most countries hate us. All we have is each other.

Forgive my rambling.

“Politicians are like diapers; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.” ― Mark Twain

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world."

Yes

You have to have a certain level of education to understand that the middle class and a constitutional republic go hand in hand. Otherwise, you get a two class society, which is where we are headed since the current generation is not being taught anything in school.

As I said below. Scotland is

As I said below. Scotland is entitled to their independence. The UK tax payers as a whole however were forced into paying for the Royal Bank Of Scotland's billions of pounds debt. So I hope Scotland if it becomes independent will then take on that debt itself.

Scotland would not gain independence anyway...

One reason why the EU favours regionalization is because this undermines the nation state.

Scotland would still be part of the EU, and if it enters the eurozone it would have entered the 'federal' (centralized) EU core, for that's what's to become of the eurozone after the collapse of member states' economies, forced by no small measure by the EU bailout funds themselves, which force indebted countries to further borrow in order to add it to the debt load of the most indebted members. Eventually, very soon, when most countries are bankrupted, the EU and ECB will save the day by grabbing total fiscal, monetary and budgetary powers and granting EU citizens perpetual poverty and supranational dependence.

You might have seen Nigel Farage's most recent rant in the European Parliament: http://youtu.be/TN_1mF-3JTI

And here's a good article on the latest: http://reason.com/blog/2012/06/26/herman-von-rompuy-releases...

Plan B

Ron Paul for First President of the New Republic of Texas!!!

Charles Jackson
http://MathIsChristian.wordpress.com Also, read Ron Paul's original staff economist Gary North at http://teapartyeconomist.com/

Could you imagine

Texas full of incoming liberty people, all others move to other states. YES!!! That is plan B of course.

-Jacky
TX

My wife has a book about

the writer's travels through Europe. It goes into detail about the laid back lifestyle of Europeans, especially in Greece. They take their time. They enjoy life. They don't work a 40 hour week. They relax and drink wine and contemplate. Ahh. The old country.
The writer compares that lifestyle to the hustle and bustle of the US lifestyle. I do believe we spend too much time working for nice cars, big houses, fancy clothes and gadgets
BUT after reading about why Greece is in so much trouble it seem nobody wants to do the work required to earn a living. They are so used to living off others it is making it difficult to get off their butts and get back to work.
Why is Germany's economy so strong? Germany seems to have a good work ethic. They are the ones needing to secede.
Sarah Palin was ridiculed for bringing up the Bible verse in Psalms that states "a man that doesn't work doesn't eat" (By the "Reverand" Al Sharpton who did not realize it was a quote from the bible)
When the bailouts stop they will do something about it. They are now just following the path of least resistance. Get another credit card to pay off the others.

I hope this is a wake up call for the US. We are heading that way.

Are you kidding? The elite

Are you kidding?

The elite want everybody to be working their asses of all the time- The Greeks were living the way the whole world should be (and it wasn't that great a quality of living actually). Why is it we have mass unemployment in this country, and everybody is working as much as they possibly can? Inflation and rising prices eating away at anything saved.. Did you ever pause and think- hey, maybe it's this way because we're getting screwed.

You have NO IDEA what life was like in Greece. The Greek people worked just as hard as anybody else in Europe.

This is not accurate in my estimation

I believe our culture should in fact be striving to work less, and expect that with less productivity we will own less. It would likely make us happier overall. That said, I spent a fair amount of time in Greece over the last few years (I was in Syntagma square a few days before the austerity protests really heated up. The Syrians were protesting that particular day) And they really do take a TON of time off. I'm not saying it is a bad thing, but it is a true thing. The Germans (in my estimation) work much harder, and are generally much more productive.

The southern Europeans suffer from the 'cafe' lifestyle, which I very much enjoy, and admire, but I'm not sure it's compatible with western corporate oligharchic economics.

Salmond humbug

This is not a bid for independance, but a bid for Salmond's ego, who would rather be a big fish in a small pond. Interestingly, despite this 'bid', Salmond thinks Scotland can continue to use the British pound, while also exempting itself from the colossal debts incurred by a Scottish bank.

Just a reminder, when Elizabeth 1 died, it was a Scottish king who replaced her, James the first; the Act of Union - note that, Union, not takeover - came in 1701. per capita, Scotland receives more funding from the Westminster it derides (Westminster being the home of the British government - there IS NO English government) Wales, Scotland, N. Ireland all have their own devolved powers.

Out last Prime Minister was Scottish, and many MPs are Scottish. Scots can vote on 'English' issues, without reciprocation. it is the 'English' who are losing out.

Remember, 'Braveheart' is as much Hollywood tripe as 'Revolution'. Please don't be ruled by media images. Scotland has its own judiciary, its own education system, its own banknotes, etc. And all Salmond will do is take Scotland into the Euro, just so as to get his hands on all that cash, because Scotland can't finance itself.

This space available

While some of your statements

While some of your statements are true, I think you're forgetting which site you're on. This is a freedom site, and one of the most unalieanable rights is that of a people to be free to vote with their feet. If they wish to leave and do things their way, fine.

It's true that Scotland relies far too much on money from London. So, why not cut them off? Especially when some take the money and then complain about the lack of independence. Independence would be great for Scotland: it would be a wake up call as to how much they need to retool their systems to actually be self-reliant. They'll never learn this lesson, if you don't cut the chord.

Yes, 1701 was more or less voluntary....just as the Constitution was. But the Constitutional union has been unsaveable for many decades, let it die. And let all the money grubbing states learn to fend for themselves. Tis well past time they did so.

Growing seseccionist

Growing seseccionist movement. I don't think so. Growing indirectly by european union taxmoney subsidized longing for autonomous regionality under the european bureaucracy to further weaken nation states, you bet!
Scotland is being husseled into european servitude as they are now under the british crown. Btw the first sign that something is wrong: the independence is promoted by politicians without spontaneous huge popular demand. It is a political issue, not a sovereignty issue and people will vote accordingly. That means there will be polls and voxpops and jolly funny items on how good the european union is for scotland.

Same goes for the other movements. The basques have blown themselves out of public opinion. The belgians may be a fragile nation, but that is only because, that is my personal opinion, the european union is seeking to create a european union dominion out of the brussels area, after the washington dc model. France is not really 'plagued' by these secessionists. They are only striving for recognition in many cases, which is of course far from secession. Alsace is increasingly french. The german speech is on a fast retreat there, maybe due to the history of the two countries.
One region in france that is not mentioned, but that has had succes is the most northwestern region where the dutch dialect is now again thaught in an increasing number of schools, after more than 100 years of blackout.

Anyway, thats my take on it. Long story short. Sovereignty is not reached through a ballot box. Sovereignty must be seized and kept alive as history has shown too many times

Dutch Ron Paul blog: http://www.paulitiek.nl | Paul Campaign Google Maps: share the victories with your Friends! http://g.co/maps/rcw2y

You are correct.

Just came back from Europe and had a light discussion about this with family. You, obviously, have a much better perspective than most here (in the states) coming from Netherlands.

Question

Here's something I've always wondered about state sovereignty. I can see how the original 13 colonies are sovereign, because they came together and formed a federal government of limited powers. But all the other states were born out of lands in federal control. Does that have any impact on the sovereignty of those other states?

This is an honest question-- not trying to be provocative or anything.

EVERY

state has to have a costitution that declares it is a Republic with the power reserved to the people and in the people or wording to that effect, declaring its Soverienty. Nowhere in any of the Republics costitutions is the word Democracy and Citizen is nowhere in the united states Costitution. Do you know the Dfference between a democracy v. Republic?
Do you know the difference between as defined by the preamble, people v. Citizen?

Scotlands been talkin bout it for a while

I remember that scene in Braveheart where Gibson's intestines are spilled out.

check out... time for one free state

If at First You Don't Secede

You know the old saying:

If at first you don't secede, ...

Let it not be said that we did nothing.-Ron Paul
Stand up for what you believe in, even if you stand alone.-Sophia Magdalena Scholl

Very good

Joe:D

Scotland

Is doing disservice to itself imo.

They so desperately want out of the yoke of the dreaded, evil, and wicked English, yet are happy to substitute it for the yoke of the EU by the looks of it.

donvino

All true patriots need to learn what RP already knows but is

measuring his time for the right moment. If you believe in free speech and you are not to chicken to open your eyes, take a deep breath and see what the real patriots are doing:

http://dev.republicoftheunitedstates.org/