What is Really Causing Division in our Movement and on Daily Paul and how to have Unity?
Submitted by David144 on Tue, 06/19/2012 - 12:31I think what has divided us so much is Rand Paul coming out and saying that "the nomination process is over". The people still backing Rand are so confused that they are still behind him in this, but yet they hate and call anyone a "troll" who would ever say "the nomination process is over" except Rand or Jack Hunter, and maybe a few others. It's doublespeak and they are divided within themselves and confused. And are hitting the defense button, but yet lying to themselves, and using deception to win arguments, and prove what they believe. I think it's denial and refusing to accept the truth.
Further, on top of Rand saying "the nomination process is over", he said he's going to "endorse" Romney. But not to stop there he said he would also "campaign" for Mitt Romney.
Now herein lies the issue of why there is such a denial regarding what Rand has done:
Everyone in the liberty movement so badly wanted Rand to be the next Ron. Now they are refusing to accept in their mind that Rand is a sellout. And they are refusing it so badly that they begin name calling "trolls" etc. But if anyone else other than Rand did it, in their minds these people would be "sellouts", "trolls", "flip-floppers", "traitors" etc. Again, they don't see that they are divided in themselves. And if divided in themselves, how can they become united in a movement. In order to be united they have to let go of Rand Paul and stand for integrity and be honest with themselves.
You can see here where many people are confused. And after all their confusion, some will get upset with anyone who disagree's with Rand. They feel that people are not allowed to speak negatively about what Rand did. That's not how things work when people are vying for liberty and the constitution. Everyone has the right to speak.
I believe that their may be some in the establishment who have infiltrated the Daily Paul boards and are seeking to confuse the people into believing "It's alright if Rand says "the nomination process is over, and I'm endorsing and campaigning for Romney", but if anyone else we will call them traitors, trolls etc..." This is two opinions conflicting in the very same sentence, and thus division in their own minds.
Think about this long and hard for a while. Ron Paul never said the nomination process is over, neither am I. I think we should do all we can for the good doctor. But we need to recognize what's really causing the division here. There are also unanswered questions regarding some of the campaign staff regarding Trigve Olson and Jesse Benton and their backgrounds.
Also, one other issue is regarding Alex Jones and Adam Kokesh as well as a few others. I disagree with alot of things they say. And I've even at certain times found some things they say to be revolting, however: Everything I've seen from them tells me they would never endorse or campaign for Mitt Romney and they are on our side. If they did, then immediately I would say "HEY, wth? Now you've gone to far." Come on guys let's think about these things a little more and consider first whether we are so defensive of people that we will even lie to ourselves in order to believe everything that comes out of their mouth, and will support everything that they say.
Division came when people started realizing that their was vote fraud. We had some who couldn't accept the truth and then they started getting mad at those who said there was a conspiracy calling them "conspiracy theorists", "trolls" etc. And the posts saying something was going on were voted down and division came into the ranks, people wanted others to stop talking about it.
Let's be real and honest with ourselves first, then with one another. God bless.
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Strength through unity, and
Strength through unity, and unity through faith.
there is no division...
Its Ron Paul or NOBODY!
next question...
its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
Defeat CORKER! Bailed out the banks. In training to steal more.
Defeat ALEXANDER! Career traitor! Handsomely rich in a poor Nation.
What is Causing Division?
Division can sometimes be caused by too much or too rapid multiplication.
With each addition in a conversation comes the possibility of losing your mental sub-traction, causing derailment of your train of thought, and,
Causing everyone's brains to eventually become equal to the lowest common denominator in the conversation.
The Under-Lying Truth
Anti-Panda Propaganda Systems
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Ron Paul: "If you ever can bring about revolutionary changes two things would be required: young people... and music."
Liberty lives
in the heart. IMHO, it doesn't matter what "Rand" or "Ron" or "The Doctor" does because it is known now, by millions and millions. Carry something for a neighbor...Liberty never sleeps and will always be born in the heart and shot from the belly, I thinks.
Still working in the Automobile industry. Midnights no less :) Knock on wood.
This is very simple...
Lack of leadership from the VERY TOP and a divide on what the GOAL actually is.
The people at the top want a speaking slot. The rest of us want Paul to be POTUS. The leadership at the top is shaky at best. Benton is a slime ball fuk head and unfortunately Dr. Paul while being an inspiration and clearly the smartest man in politics SUCKS at reading people's character.
I love Ron Paul. I have donated to both campaigns in 2008 and 2012. My only hope is that whoever assumes the role of "new leader" of the "Revolution" is someone who is significantly more assertive and actually WANTS to be POTUS. No disrespect to Dr. Paul but they supporters are divided and confused because we were told there was a strategy to WIN the nomination... not to "speak" for 15 minutes during a snack break at the RNC.
and now I wait to be called a "romney supporter" and get voted down. lmfao
History repeats itself
Just the like the fiery passion of the Tea party movement was assimilated, placated, and fluffed into the "Tea-O-Con" ideology, so too will a large portion of the liberty movement. This "Liberty Lite" ideology is attempting to argue (with much emotionalism I might add) that a deal with the devil is acceptable (Rand's endorsement of Romney) and that someone who is 90% of the way a liberty-minded individual deserves our full support and all who oppose it must be some "anarchist libertarian".
There is a huge number of people here who are just like you hublife, myself included.
I NEVER INTENDED TO MAKE INROADS WITH CORRUPT PEOPLE OR PARTIES!
I expected the liberty movement to remain focused on winning hearts and minds at the local/state level and stay HIGHLY decentralized. Will it cave to the pageantry of Campaign for Liberty and nicely worded emails with fun soundbites? For the love of God, will the advocacy groups for the liberty movement like Tom Woods Liberty Classroom or the 10th Amendment Center truly fall into disfavor in place of long-winded emails for Campaign for Liberty just BEGGING to get a crack at your wallet? Will we exchange our fiery passion for a causal donation button? This makes us no better than the NRA for crying out loud!
What bothers me the most is that people who just months ago said NOBODY BUT PAUL will now not only entertain the idea of compromise, but seem to be blasting those who refuse to do the same. I'll be more than happy once the split has occurred within this revolution. Just as the Union and the Confederacy could no longer see eye to eye, neither can many here. It is the most logical and healthy result if each wing of this movement continue to pursue the end goal for individual liberty as they best see fit. I simply refuse to be in the half that kowtows to Tea-O-Con's like DeMint and Rand and will never again donate one red cent to a top-down solution.
Note: I upvoted you. What you said was true and you are no Romney supporter or troll, though I'm sure many will downvote you to validate themselves.
“Facts don’t cease to exist because they are ignored.” – Aldous Huxley
Think unstructured
and there is no need to worry or stop pursuing freedom.
Still working in the Automobile industry. Midnights no less :) Knock on wood.
people should read this article
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamespoulos/2012/06/19/from-ron-...
There's a thread already:
http://www.dailypaul.com/241054/forbes-the-gops-paul-problem...
We can be confused, deflated, become apathetic, and it is exactly what is not needed or we can both (people defending Rand and people criticizing him) work to achieve our, more or less common, goal (liberty). Read the article, this move by Rand is probably the best way to go about it: some people will follow him, some people won't and it is ok...
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom — go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, an
I think the main thing
I think the main thing contributing to the disunity is the fact that Ron Paul isn't winning.
Winning would smooth over all these issues. It is when you are losing and want to get distracted, that you turn to other issues.
Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:
Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...
Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a
Political Decapitation
Apparently this method works just as well for a domestic political movement as it does for destroying "uncooperative foreign regimes". The GOP has successfully executed a coup of the Liberty movement and left it without a Leader. Now there is no National-scale common rallying point.
Through whatever means, it would appear that Ron has been told to hush-up or else. Threats, 'save Rand's career', who knows what they used as a carrot or stick? But, I've never seen anyone get "so quiet- so quick" (with the possible exception of Perot in '92) as Ron did after the Bernanke breakfast meeting. Anything beyond a symbolic challenge died at that moment.
Then Rand, from all appearances with a gun to his head, endorses Romney which predictably ripped the movement in half. I can scarcely imagine any single act Rand could have done that would have been more divisive. Rand's not stupid- and this ain't "clever political maneuvering". I just don't believe that a man like Rand would betray his Father and his principles like this without incredible force having been brought to bear.
So what are we left with; Ron silenced and the "heir apparent" tainted and effectively neutered. The Liberty movement confused, divided, angry, disorganized and leaderless. Mission Accomplished.
I think we've been "Coup'd"
Exactly.....
It's not hard to figure out what has divided the movement. It's right in front of us. It's just up to us to quit lying to ourselves, be honest with ourselves, and then we can be honest with and be united with each other to defeat these globalists. It's not about destroying Rand, but we do have to all admit, what he did has caused us to be confused, divided, angry, and somewhat disorganized because we are condoning a guy who said "The nomination process is over". We should be all saying "Sorry Rand, get out of the way" and "Ron, get back on the horse, we're with you still."
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
http://www.thethirdangelsmessage.com/wordpress/should-christ...
Gary is right on.
Stop defending Rand and re-group. The Paul's are human and no one person can bear the stress placed on them by this corrupt system. WE must move forward and reject any of our leaders that appear to be compromised. Their leadership ends because WE are growing up and WE don't need a "leader". We need people that understand Liberty and can articulate how important it is. WE need teachers. Good-bye Rand.
Look, even Jack Hunter is confused
Jack said "If Mitt Romney becomes the Republican's presidential nominee in 2012, then conservatives will need to find a new party."
Ok Jack, so...Now you are saying that Rand was right to endorse him?
Does anyone see how confused people can get. They get behind someone so much, that they can actually brainwash themselves and flip flop. If Romney becomes president Jack, then will Rand have to find a new party?
And then the video by Jack is on the front page of the Daily Paul confusing the minds of millions of Ron Paul supporters. It's like Jack Hunter of 2012 vs Jack Hunter of 2011. Yes, this move of Rand Paul has even divided Jack Hunter against Jack Hunter. Think about it.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
http://www.thethirdangelsmessage.com/wordpress/should-christ...
Sorry, but you are putting people
in two different groups, for Rand and against, and conclude that each group has has the same reasoning as a whole either for or against. You couldn't be any more collectivist. The reason why I still support Rand isn't because of me wanting to see him pick up what his father started, it is because he is the best senator this country has got. Yes, the endorsement hurt and didn't make sense. I hold 1 strike against Rand. If it changes his future voting record than I won't support him, but until then I would be foolish to throw out my support for someone who votes the right way 90% of the time (sanctions being the outlier.) What is creating a divide is people such as yourself putting people in groups while making assumptions about them.
“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” – Dresden James
Sorry, but I think your in denial of the real problem
I think Rand is the best senator the country has got as well. That doesn't say alot though. And I didn't say don't support him. Get behind him when he votes for what is right, but be honest with yourself and admit that he's not pure and he doesn't always stand for the liberty movement, and the constitution, and he will never fill the shoes of Ron Paul because of what he did.
See this is where it's at. You blame someone like me for the division, but yet if Rand didn't say "the nomination process is over" and start campaigning for Mitt Romney would there be a big division between us right now? No. Nothing like there is. And that endorsement of Mitt Romney by Rand Paul is the cause. You can even admit yourself that it is a strike against Rand. But yet, it is almost as though you are lying to yourself by not admitting that it is the cause of the division on these boards.
People like myself will never EVER endorse Mitt Romney for president. Don't blame me.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
http://www.thethirdangelsmessage.com/wordpress/should-christ...
I have no clue as to
what you are insinuating. If you think I 'endorse Willard for POTUS' because I am not ready to throw Rand under the bus, I got to say you are sadly mistaken. As far as me being in denial, I never said Rand is pure. He is far from it. What is funny about this whole situation though is people are more infuriated over a meaningless endorsement than they are for his yay vote for sanctions. I don't know about you, but that pi.ssed me off more than his damaging endorsement. He has said from the beginning that he will support the nominee (yes it pissed me off that he lied and said the nomination is over. That was disgusting and a strike against him. With his sanctions and his endorsement, he is one strike away from the bench.) Also, pitting the pro/anti Rand's against each other, while assuming that the pro-Rand's have the same reasoning for being pro-Rand (putting them in the same collective) while doing the same with the Anti-Rand's is what's causing the division. There won't be another Ron Paul for 100 years, and I never assumed Rand had the same ideals; I even remember when he said his dad was more libertarian than he so they have a lot of difference philosophy wise (that was over 2 years ago.) Also, his yay vote regarding sanctions was a dead giveaway that he is on the opposite path of his father. No, I am not in denial, no I don't think Rand is pure, and yes Rand's endorsement is partly to blame for the divide, but so are individuals who put their emotions and trust in politicians, and also the collectivists who pit the pro/con Rand's against each other like each side has the same reasoning.
People like me will never EVER endorse Willard Mitt Romney for president. I don't blame you for the initial divide, I blame you for putting people into a collective on the basis that they are unwilling to throw Rand under the bus as of yet. Is it Rand’s fault for putting people into collectives? No those are individual people who are doing that, and a Rand endorsement doesn’t force others to put individuals into collectives. LOL and Rand is a freshman senator, he doesn't even have political chest hair yet. People who supported him as though he was as good as gold are no better than Obama supporters imo. Those who have lied to themselves are the ones who assumed Rand = Ron, and this is partly why there is so much emotional rants and a let down. Those who thought Rand = Ron were the one's in denial, and it seems like those individuals are coming out of it. 1st comes SHOCK & DENIAL (towards Rand's endorsement,) 2nd PAIN & GUILT (that Rand has caused you) 3rd ANGER & BARGAINING (like a lot have been doing as of late) 4th REFLECTION, 5th THE UPWARD TURN 6th RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH-, 7th ACCEPTANCE & HOPE. I would say you are on the third step.
“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” – Dresden James
I didn't say you endorse
I didn't say you endorse Romney. Are we in the same conversation here? Anyway, I agree with most of what you said, however some things I don't agree with including your misjudgments of me. I'm glad to hear that you saying "Rand's endorsement is partly to blame for the divide". It has much to do with the divide. Ron was pretty clear when snickering about a possible Romney endorsement and saying "no way" on CNN tonight and that's got to instill some motivation back into the people and we all need to stand up and say "NO WAY" and Rand Paul should take notes.
As far as throwing Rand under the bus, Rand did that to himself. He has to crawl back out before it's too late.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
http://www.thethirdangelsmessage.com/wordpress/should-christ...