2 votes

3 Freedom Events in Tampa? Is This Good or Bad Thing for Liberty?

Well, it looks as if we will find out soon enough.

Aug 24-26 http://paulfestival.org/ (without Ron Paul but with Adam Kokesh)

Aug 24-26 http://www.freedomfestival2012.com/ (with Gary Johnson)

Aug 26th ... And now SOMEWHERE Ron Paul will speak just before the GOP convention, so says the LA TIMES

"Despite all of the fanfare around Paul in the buildup to the GOP convention, the congressman doesn't plan to attend any event beyond his campaign's, according to national chairman Jesse Benton"

see here: http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-ron-paul-holding-...

Is all of this good for liberty?

Or are we diluting our money and time and energies?

Treg

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SuperPACs and the money machine.

I first read Ayn Rand when I was in high school (decades ago, if you were wondering), and I've always bought into her philosophy that to EARN money is a good thing.

OK. Recently, I discovered that Dr. Paul will not attend either of the "festivals" for liberty (PaulFest/FreedomFest) because they are supported by PAC funds. In fact, I've read comments that to attend/speak at such an event would be ILLEGAL for Dr. Paul.

This news was a revelation to me. I suddenly realize that there are dozens (hundreds?) of groups of so-called liberty advocates out there who are hawking all KINDS of RP paraphernalia.

Suddenly, I am wondering about these "SuperPACs." Would it be possible for a SuperPAC to undermine Dr. Paul by sponsoring competing events? What if they bought billboards or printed pamphlets and posted messages that SEEM to support Dr. Paul, but actually undermine him? (I don't know, how about "Delegates, REVOLT!" or "Down with social security!")

I love Dr. Paul. I love his principles, his voting record, his clarity of purpose, his funky eyebrow, his stuttering, his sniffling. To me, he exemplifies all that is GREAT in America. For such a man to achieve so much... this is our destiny; this is our raison d'etre.

We live in complex, soul-sapping times. I want to believe that every group that carries a Ron Paul banner is really on our team. But I read the divisive posts here on DP and I am disheartened.

What do you all think? Please give me your honest, heartfelt opinions.

Yes, definitely possible.

I can't say for sure if we're seeing anything like that right now, but I have had my eyebrows raised at a few things I've seen recently from groups outside the campaign, so I don't rule out the possibility.

Thanks BigT.

I appreciate your response. I guess none of us know for sure what motivation impels groups outside of the campaign, and we are left to figure that out on our own. I hope I don't make significant mistakes; you probably hope the same.

I don't know about your suspicion of Adam Kokesh. I have seen many youtube videos of Adam, and I have to say that he is entirely genuine to me. Yes, he goes off on a tangent now and then, but so do I... that seems human, and REAL.

Time will tell; I wish we had more time to judge.

Sometimes

innocent people or good-intentioned people get manipulated without their knowledge or understanding about it.

I have been in positions where I had to recognize infiltrators, in a life or death situation. I got good at it, which is evidenced by the fact that I'm still alive.
I may not be right 100% of the time, but I have a very high percentage of being correct.
I may be wrong about Kokesh, but I guarantee you that his entry into the scene and his rise to visibility has the profile of somebody to watch out for. And his activity since then has been very suspect, and not helpful to the movement in general.

It will be interesting

To see which one the freshly trained riot pols will hang around at.

I suppose it's relative.

I would go to the official campaign event with Ron Paul.

Nobody could pay me enough to even be in the same county with that rotten apple Adam Kokesh. I have utter contempt for any event which would even have him there.

I wouldn't consider attending any event that had Gary Johnson at it.

So, I suppose that narrows it down for me.

Wow, BigT.... this is news to me...

I have read your comments on GJ and very much agree with them, but show me some links to comments of yours about Adam Kokesh... I am totally clueless as to why you would have "utter contempt" for Adam.

Treg

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Treg,

after some tracking over the past few weeks, it seems that the source of emanation of the innuendo against Benton and the campaign staff started with Kokesh.
After Kokesh's run-in with the campaign when Adam got fired from RT, he had quite an axe-to-grind against Ron's campaign staff, and he made no secret of that. As the innuendo and attacks against Benton and RP's campaign got mentioned by Adam(which were prolific) his groupies dutifully distributed them over here and the other RP-related sites, for the purposes of slow poisoning of the Ron Paul supporters to mistrust and hate the people around Ron Paul, including his son, and grandson-in-law, as well as his hand-picked staff members. And it even went as far as mistrusting Ron Paul for the fact that he had these "traitors" in his campaign.

As the campaign progressed, and people became aware that it didn't look like everything was going our way, it became easy to blame it on the campaign staff, especially after they had been subtly(and not so subtly) demonized over the previous few months. This seed of sentiment grew among people who really had no idea they were being manipulated, but were very emotional, and easy to manipulate due to rising desperation. It got a life of its own.

The "trigger event" was the Rand announcement, which was hawked as "proof" that we had all been "sold out" by Ron Paul and his band of traitors(a.k.a "the campaign"), who obviously were tossing the election for the purposes of "keeping our money" and "he's sold out to Romney and made a deal for Rand", etc.
It became totally ludicrous, but desperate people believe strange things. The Pauls became the enemy.

But, since it was dangerous to demonize Ron Paul directly because of his followers' loyalty, the strategy was to attack everyone and everything around Ron Paul, as if the attackers and "their principles" needed to "purify" everything that was infecting Ron Paul. This also meant promoting stopping donations to the campaign fund, because the "evil staff" was "misappropriating" it with all that "big salary" being paid to Benton, taking down yard signs, delegates saying they no longer wanted to go to the convention, general defeatism, etc, etc.

If you follow it right down the trail, this is basically what happened, and the people who tried to stand up for the Pauls and their family and staff were considered "traitors" but the ones demonizing the Pauls and their family and staff considered themselves "principled".
And who runs around making an issue of being "principled" all the time, all high-and-mighty?
Well, it's the anarchists and LP and Indy and "3rd Party" contingent who do NOT want anything to do with infiltrating the Republican Party, and have made no secret of that either. So, they were easy marks to hop right on board when Rand and Jesse were "needing to be demonized". Notice who was all over this issue, and their predilections for not being in the Republican Party. There was even a comment on the "volutaryism" thread where the anarchists talked about "harvesting" us over to their movement while we were in disarray! I kid you not. They used the word "harvesting"!
And who just happens to be the "new anarchist on the block", who has the ears of these people?
Adam Kokesh.

Of course, once the Rand announcement happened, Alex Jones was right there to stomp not only on Rand, but right onto Ron too, with vicious attacks lasting for days. It was meant to be the coup de grace. But it didn't quite finish him, even though it split the supporters, and did huge damage which the attackers blamed on Rand, but was clearly caused by the hyper-emotional public tirade of the people who had been psy-opped.

Coincientally, right at this time, the "lawyers" appeared, with the by-line "righteous mutiny" and "taking over the Ron Paul campaign", and "setting up a new executive commmittee", essentially hijacking Ron Paul's campain and his supporters, AND his delegates, just before the convention.
Coincidence?
I think not.

Now, if you do a search, you may find a thread where another member(not me) posted a thread about Webster Tarpley being behind this whole thing, and manipulating Adam Kokesh and Alex Jones into working this plan, because of the superficial arrogance and ambitious personalities of both those individuals being prime candidates for wanting Rand out of the way so they could move upward in importance in the "liberty movement".
He had some very interesting postulates.
I don't know if that is where the initial impetus came from, but it is possible, and both Kokesh and Jones are influenced by Tarpley.

The way I see this, the "conspiracy" was NOTHING like what has been supposed on this forum, but there WAS a "conspiracy" of a different nature being worked, by people who pointed the finger at their intended targets of destruction which was the Ron Paul campaign.

There is WAY more to what went on here over the last month or two than anybody is seeing. The whole thing is not as it seems.
The only clear path to seeing it is to see who is harming the Ron Paul effort, and who is not. And who has motive, and who doesn't. Then it becomes clear.

I see... thanks!

Now Rand's smirky remark about "internet anarchists who think they rule the internet" makes a bit of sense.

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
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selfish bump

bump

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820