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Lew Rockwell on Rand - "The Apple Fell Far From The Tree"

http://www.lewrockwell.com/lewrockwell-show/2012/06/19/284-r...

Brian Wilson (5m s54 mark): "There's an awful lot of presumption that the apple wouldn't fall far from the tree".

Lew Rockwell (5m s59 mark): "No, no. The apple fell far from the tree. This was not coordinated. This was Rand entirely acting on his own."

EDIT:

The part below is Lew commenting on Ron, by the way. I'm definitely excited to hear Ron has "great announcements" going forward.

Lew Rockwell (5m 37s mark): "I think many many great announcements by the way about what he's done, what he's going to do after he's out from the yoke of Washington DC in January."



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Amazing to me

Amazing that this bullshiz conversation persists even after Doug W. interview last night. Patience and Unity people....get over it already.

Discussion is good...

I think it's important for us in the liberty movement to point out the possible flaws in important players' thinking and acting, like Rand and Lew, just as it is important to point out the same flaws in someone like Jefferson or Madison.

Rand Paul is not Ron Paul. No one in history has ever been or ever will be Ron Paul. NO ONE. I would argue that Ron Paul will go down in history as the most consistent American patriot that has ever lived. While it is important to keep an eye on Rand to see where his actions take him in the future, we have to remember where he came from. Maybe he's not a libertarian at all, maybe he's just playing their game. I can't say.

Lew Rockwell is a hardcore libertarian anarcho-capitalist. I agree with him on just about everything I've ever read or heard from him, and his advances for liberty aren't matched by many. And he agrees with Ron Paul about many, many things. But there is a pretty fundamental difference between the two: anarcho-capitalist vs. Ron Paul. Ron is not an anarcho-capitalist (or if he is, he's never alluded to it). But that doesn't mean that they don't agree on most libertarian/political/historical arguments/facts/policies, etc.

At some point, I think you start to split hairs. (Although I'm not necessarily saying that's what's happening here. I'm just saying that it's common among liberty-lovers. Like the intellectual property issue. It's a moot point, like many others.) Ron Paul has sided with many democrats and many republicans on various issues when they are in agreement and their unity helps to advance the cause of liberty, even if he disagrees with those people on most other issues.

Tu ne cede malis, anywhere and everywhere at every time.

Totally agree.

I think if one were to side with Ron Paul over Lew Rockwell or vice versa, it would be splitting heirs. Tom Woods is also an anarcho-capitalist and he loves Ron Paul. RP gets along pretty famously with these types. He is possibly a bit of an anarcho-capitalist at heart.

However, to me, there is a big difference in these guys and Rand. Just totally different ways of viewing the world. Fundamentally different philosophical approaches, and I think, fundamentally different hearts. Ron Paul could no more do what Rand is doing than the other way around. Are they trying to accomplish the same thing? No. They can't be. The means of accomplishing a goal is everything. The ends justifying the means is the same approach Lenin and the Bolsheviks took. The means are the ends. Am I a purist? Absolutely.

John F

How is liberty won?

By dropping out and not participating? Or, by stepping up and taking charge?

This is actually a huge difference between Ron Paul and Lew Rockwell, the difference between plain knowledge and results, between vanity and success.

Knowledge without action is futile.

Anarchy is not a solution either, because anarchy is 'Might makes Right', whomever has the most resources, power, or influence always wins.

I agree with Ron Paul and our founders in limited government and I don't appreciate Lew Rockwell undermining Ron Paul's efforts to get people involved and taking charge; actually fighting for liberty.

A bird took the fruit...

and shit that nut out MILES away from the Liberty Tree!

Heh heh.

BRING ON THE FLAME!

Rights are like muscles; you must exercise them to keep them fit, or they will atrophy and die.

ytc's picture

. . . which CAN be the best thing to happen for the

Liberty movement. To have another Liberty Tree growing and thriving in a far off land, where the natives have never heard of liberty before ;-)

What's he going to say when Ron Paul endorses

Rand in 2016?

RAND PAUL 2016.

If thats family loyality

That family is pulling somthing, for it appears the complete opposite. How could anyone ever discribe a son endorsing the oposition candidate to his own father and call that family unity. I only shake my head in amazement what some people can come up with.

sovereign

Everyone understands family loyalty. That is why Rand didn't hav

to endorse when he did, imho.

Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesnt want to hear -RonPaul

The truth is that he never

The truth is that he never had to endorse. It does NOTHING for the movement or his career. In my opinion, he's done, but we'll see. I'm certainly done with any monetary support.

I shudder to think how much of my max-out money this year went to pay people working for the Ron Paul campaign to justify endorsing the enemy of all liberty, Mitt Romney.

It's time for serious

It's time for serious advocates for liberty to distance themselves from Lew Rockwell. Rand Paul should be able to rack up 50%-60% of the votes in the 2016 primaries if normal people think that all the kooks and crazies oppose Rand.

Thomas Jefferson 1796, 1800, 1804; James Madison 1808, 1812; Ron Paul 1988, 2008, 2012; Rand Paul 2016.

I would never ever ever vote

for Judas Rand. I can not spead for others Some will some wont. I see Rand step in after the take over by GOP of tea party and try to claim the supporters of Ron Paul. I see a bunch of peeps posting here how they just love Judas. This one person will not ever support Rand not even for dog catcher.

sovereign

Lew Rockwell is the next Pope

Lew Rockwell is the next Pope Urban VIII. I stand with Rand.

Thomas Jefferson 1796, 1800, 1804; James Madison 1808, 1812; Ron Paul 1988, 2008, 2012; Rand Paul 2016.

Me neither! Rand has disgraced himself...and I will never

vote for him for anything. And I am disgusted by the apologists who make every excuse for Rand's treachery. There is no excuse. He had a choice and he made it. Now let him live with the consequences.

The evil that is in the world almost always comes of ignorance, and good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence if they lack understanding.
ALBERT CAMUS, The Plague

I don't know about that. I

I don't know about that. I see Ron Paul as a lot closer to Rand Paul than anything.

When Republicans tried to embargo earmarks, Ron went ahead with his any way, one of only 4 Republicans to do so. Then he said that all expenditures should be earmarked, then he voted against them so he can claim that he's never voted for an earmark and is therefore against them.

So.....here you have a case of someone being FOR it, but then voting AGAINST it. Why doesn't he just say "I vote for earmarks every time because I think Washington knows best how to spend our money"? And vote accordingly?

IOW, to claim that Rand Paul is so distant from his father is to deny just how close Ron really is to where Rand is.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

It's the duty of Congress to earmark all spending

It's literally the job of the representatives of the people to specifically detail, account, and approve of all spending of the people's money.

Sending blank checks to the executive branch is negligence!

Where is that in the

Where is that in the Constitution? What do you think "executive" actually means?

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

Article I, Section 7 and Article I, Section 8

Article I, Section 7 - All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives.

Article I, Section 8 - No money shall be drawn from the Treasury but in consequence of appropriations made by law.

The Executive branch gets to runs things, but it is the House of Representatives that decides exactly what things will be ran, and exactly how much will be spent and on what. Giving the House of Representatives the power of the purse is a division of power.

Spending can only legally be determined by the House of Representatives, because it is the people's money getting spent. And if the representatives make bad decisions then the people have a right to hold their representatives accountable.

That doesn't give them the

That doesn't give them the power to use the money for unconstitutional local purposes!!!!!

The problem is that these people bring home illegal funds by the hundreds of $miillions, so they don't vote him out. My father is a raging liberal and he voted for the evil Republican for decades because what? Because he brought hom the unconstitutional bacon.

There is no authority for these guys to spend money this way or for a single person to determine these funds. There's no "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" mandate in the Constitution.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

No, it doesn't

But the bills are unconstitutional to begin with. Therefore, if the money is being stolen from the people for unconstitutional bills in the first place, then the only option is to return that stolen money to the people to the best of your ability.

This is why Ron Paul votes against the bills in the first place. However, if the Congress is going to pass an unconstitutional bill, he's going to try to get as much money returned as possible.

You realize all the money the government spends must come from taxation or inflation don't you? The money the government spends comes from the people.

What evil Republican are you talking about?

My father's "evil" local Rep.

My father's "evil" local Rep. He couldn't stand the guy, but voted for him because he brought the bacon.

People are easily bought. There's an amazing quote about that, but I can't remember what it is off hand.

If Ron Paul put 10% of the efort into ending earmarks and unconstitutional spending by his own group as he spends to end the Fed, hed have made some actual difference in Congress. Ron Paul has basically accomplished nothing in Congress in 34 years. I know that's not totally his fault, but he's hardly stuck his neck out very far.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

since you clearly know nothing

about the earmark process or the Constitution, it would probably be best for you to keep your mouth shut on the subjects and go back to your normal activity here, which is the cheap carnival-barking for that worthless neocon hack Gary Johnson.

Okay, quick test. What does

Okay, quick test.

What does "provide for" mean?

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

Since you don't know

I'd suggest studying.

I know the answer. And I

I know the answer. And I guess you don't. Not surprising, really.

Care to prove me wrong? Open book test.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

I'm with you!

I greatly prefer the politicians who passed 40,000 new laws last year. Now THEY got something done!

I feel so much better supporting them them 'ole do nuthin' Ron Paul.

If my need to be RIGHT is greater than my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle

What did he get repealed?

What did he get repealed? Certainly not the Patriot Act.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

Ron Paul has accomplished the most important thing in Congress

He has exposed the Federal Reserve bank, which is the core of corruption.

I get it now, regardless of your signature, you're working for dictator Obama.

That's been exposed since

That's been exposed since Thomas Jefferson.

In any case, that's great, but that didn't turn into law yet. So he's still batting zero.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

HAHAhahahahahahahahaha

1 whole week!

HAhahahahahahahaha

Thomas Jefferson: “Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever."

Viva La Revolucion!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmaTNf4YhEs