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The United States – A Democracy or a Republic – A Dragon or a Lamb

In a republic people enjoy their God given natural rights. The declaration of independence and the constitution exclude disbelief in or even doubt as to the existence of God as the Creator of Man as we shall see.

Democracy:

In a democracy, the people accept their government given civil rights. Democracy was repugnant to the founders of the United States and it is repugnant to God and to bible believing Christians who understand the principles of liberty and justice for all as we shall see.

“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.” - Thomas Jefferson

For instance, let’s say that 51% of the nation votes for military drones to monitor people and take away their privacy and freedom or federal departments such as the TSA to touch every part of your body and grope your private parts to ensure the safety of others, the Department of Education to make sure your kids are being educated by the powers that be to believe that we are no longer free, and that God doesn’t exist, and that they came from animals and were not formed in the image of God.

Or how about the Department of Energy to force you to pay taxes for breathing, the Food and Drug Administration to govern us and force down our throats fluoridated water and to also force us to put mercury, aluminum, and other poison in our veins and bloodstream by means of vaccinations, meanwhile outlawing the sale of herbs and vitamins. Or the Department of Buildings creating laws and red tape so much so that a small business cannot operate anymore, a construction company can no longer cut down a tree without a permit from the government, or do renovations on the home, build a fence, or a deck etc.

The businesses pay so much to follow all of these guidelines, and get all this government training, permits etc. that the small business cannot afford to pay it’s workers and thus all good jobs disappear and taking over 50% of our income in unconstitutional taxes, and forcing the people to give them more money by way of permits and other red tape while corporations like Wal-Mart are given government grants of land and don’t have to pay taxes and import products from China etc promoting slavery and other unconstitutional principles.

Not only that, but also forcing us into a health care system that forces the healthy to support and pay for those who choose to be sick by means of improper lifestyle habits. It’s like forcing me to pay high insurance premiums because other people get in lot’s of car accidents, and not only that , but to put millions of dollars into the pockets of the monopolized insurance companies.

Furthermore, taking your money to put into foreign wars to destroy innocent civilians who are upset because you are trying to “FORCE democracy” on them and they don’t want it because it’s to destructive. Also being supposedly Christian they make God look tyrannical to the other nations, and obviously many Christians who think God is a war monger also become tyrannical. Please see my article on whether or not Christians should fight in war for more on that topic:

http://www.thethirdangelsmessage.com/wordpress/should-christ...

How about 99% of the people of Occupy Wall Street using their democracy or shall we say mobocracy because that’s what democracy is, to force the government to come up with equal rations for all by demanding that those who are wealthy must split their income among the poor. And they believe that they are 99% and they want to take away the rights of others(by force) and if 51% of them believe that wealth distribution by force is the answer then that’s the way it will be whether the other 49% agree or not. I am definitely part of the 99% who are not wealthy, but not part of the % who believes that the government needs to redistribute wealth from wealthy people to poorer people.

We have in excess of 50 million people on food stamps(welfare) in America right now. That's 1 in 7 people. Sadly when the people become immoral the cry is for others to govern us and take away our rights and enslave us and make us a complete welfare State dependent entirely on the government to feed us our daily rations, tell us what to eat and drink, give us a little room to live in, tell us what job to do, and basically enslave the nation because they did not accept that they were the government and were to govern themselves giving you a little card to buy and sell with and you must accept their rules first in order to do so.

The cry right now is becoming "Give us a King" and they have fallen right into the hands of power hungry dictators who are quite willing to make the 99% equal in a total police state where they give you your vaccination shots, some white bleached bread, and some water, and lots of Federal Emergency Management Agency camps where everyone will have equal bedding, and a radio going 24 hours re-educating the people into accepting the tyranny they got themselves into and how they believe they can correct it and save everyone.

That’s democracy for you, and that’s where it’s heading. If 51% wants to force the other 49% to take a mark in their right hand or in their forehead, then the majority cheers as they take away the rights of the minority.

Self Government The Republic:

A republic is not a democracy, and far from it, and it is well worthwhile to study this issue out. Abraham Lincoln defined to us what a republic is. "A government of the people, by the people, and for the people."

In a Republic, the sovereignty resides with the people themselves. In a Republic, one may act on his own or through his representatives when he chooses to solve a problem. The people have no obligation to the government; instead, the government is a servant of the people, and obliged to its owner, “We the People.” Many politicians have lost sight of that fact.

The power is structured thus:

1. God
2. People
3. Government

The opposite is true with democracy as well as most churches today.

A republic was known as the greatest at self government and the early republic of Rome became the greatest and most powerful nation on earth before its fall. But by their continual conquests they became rich. Historian AT Jones writes that:

"In the train of luxury came vice; self-restraint was broken down; the power of self-government was lost; and the Roman republic failed, as every other republic will fail, when that(self government) fails by virtue of which alone a republic is possible. The Romans ceased to govern themselves, and they had to be governed. They lost the faculty of self-government, and with that vanished the republic, and its place was supplied by an imperial tyranny supported by a military despotism." - (AT Jones The Two Republics page 3)

Don’t just step over that quote. It say’s a lot. Especially since it was written over 130 years ago. The republic was about self government, but they stopped governing themselves.

So the steps were:

1. Riches and luxury
2. Vice (Loss of morality)
3. Self restraint broken down (self government lost)
4. Democracy sets in and majority cries for government restraint (Give us a King)
5. Tyranny supported by a military despotism (police state)

I read in the bible “The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.”(Eccl 1:9).

These steps are nothing new. The government of the people, by the people and for the people” was lost. It was lost because the people lost morality and didn’t realize that the people they had called as governors were immoral. Study history and you will see what made a great republic fall yesterday, and what has made it fall today. It’s interesting how the bible say’s “Babylon is fallen, is fallen”(Revelation 14:8, and 18:2). Seems to me that God was telling us that history repeats itself.

Article IV Section 4 of the Constitution states: "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion . . .”

In a constitutional republic, we govern ourselves. There is not mob rule, but a rule of law. And the law states in it in amendments 1 to 8 of the constitution our unalienable rights which are protected from a mob rule democracy. Which can be summed up in the declaration of independence as thus:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”(Declaration of Independence)

If you are going to step on my liberties or encroach my pursuit of happiness, or want to kill me, then you are violating the constitution and my God given not government given rights. Doesn’t matter if you have 51% or not.

Examples of Democracy at Work to Destroy Freedom and Liberty

If I choose to drink a 16 ounce Coca-cola in the streets of New York City(which I don’t by the way, I think it’s unhealthy), you have no right to stop me, you then are infringing on my liberty which the constitution protects. In a democracy you could vote to put me in jail for 6 months for drinking that much Coca-cola, and that’s the difference from a republic. In a democracy people begin to force others to comply to their beliefs.

In a constitutional republic you cannot force me not to drink Coca-cola, not even to not smoke Marijuana, though I disagree strongly with that as well. The war on drugs is unconstitutional.

I recently heard of a woman who had a beautiful garden in her yard. The city came by and cut it all down and gave her some fines to pay and told her it was against the city law. They came up with these laws because she might grow marijuana in her garden. Basically the 51% destroyed the rights of the other 49%. I’m sure they’ll remember someday should they ever want to grow a garden. But this is the fruit of democracy.

Some might quickly say “Your for drugs”. No, I’m for liberty.

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

The bible has many examples of the majority taking away the rights of the minority. Such as the three boys who would not bow to the image.(Daniel 3) They stood alone. Daniel when he prayed to his God 3 times a day.(Daniel 6) And finally in the end of time we read in Revelation just before Jesus comes that a second beast or nation(Daniel 7:23, Revelation 13:11) would come out of the earth looking like a lamb, but it would eventually speak like a dragon.

Democracy in this country was feared as much as a monarchy by the founders. Because it did was intolerant toward those with differing views. In Revelation 13 we see 3 beasts. A first beast rising out of the sea.(Revelation 13:1, 2), a second beast rising out of the earth(Revelation 13:11) and an image to the first beast which the second beast forms. The image or copy of this first beast is given all the power of the first beast by the second beast.

It is my personal belief however, and you have the freedom to differ with me. Some reading this may feel the urge to take away my rights as they are reading this because they cannot tolerate what they feel to be erroneous, some may differ with me, that is your right. I have personally come to believe that the first beast of Revelation 13 is the Papacy, and the second beast is the United States, and the Image to the Beast is a copy of the Papacy and very similar to what developed in Rome after the fall of the republic where worship was publicly forced on the people and those who refused to bow were tortured, killed, and slain for not accepting the beliefs of the Roman Church. Some have said that 50 million or more were killed by the Roman Church during the dark ages.

If anything has ever been more destructive it was the Church trying to force it’s will on the people using civil government. And this is what the founders tried to protect against in the first amendment.

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble..”(1st Amendment of the Bill of Rights)

We are told that Christians are to be servants. Jesus Christ himself served us. And the servant is not here to rule and reign over others. They are to govern themselves. And the government is to serve the people. They are not to rule and reign. The bible tells us that there are “three things for which the earth is disquieted” and the first of those is written “A servant when he reigneth”(Proverbs 3:22). In other words there is nothing that alarms this planet more than a servant who wants to rule.

The founders of the United States believed that government was only in place to serve and protect the people and their God given rights. And also government was not to do anything without the consent of the people. This is a far cry from what is happening right now.

I read in Revelation that:

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

It came up like a lamb, but then eventually begins to speak like a dragon. The Dragon is pictured here:

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Eventually it would come to a point where the power of the dragon was given to the first beast.(Revelation 13:2), and finally that power was excercised by the second beast who wanted to make an image or a copy of the first beast which would then take away the rights of those who refused to comply with the request of the kingdom.

Revelation 13:15-17 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. (16) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: (17) And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

I intend shortly to put together a few more studies which go over this in much more detail as I understand that some may be skeptical. I believe that the bible and history clearly lay out what is happening and that God has not left us ignorant regarding the remaining events to close world history. But I believe that we are heading quickly into this final democracy where the majority 51% say’s “no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

A very great issue here is the misrepresentation of the character of God in the way the government is now carrying things out and the way in which many people, professing themselves to be Christian have fought against the very thing that God stands for trying to spread democracy around the world, and coming up with silly saying such as “We must give up our liberties for freedom”. They fail to understand that they are saying that they must give up their freedoms and liberties for freedom and liberties. It’s an oxymoron.

If you are interested in the upcoming bible studies regarding America in Bible prophecy, please sign up for my blog at:

http://www.thethirdangelsmessage.com/wordpress/the-united-st...



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"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win!"
GANDHI

"The belief is worthless if the fear of social and physical punishment overrides the belief."

A republic has to be a moral

A republic has to be a moral one for it to stand, because there needs to be virtue in those who want to be free. If we have no virtue and stomp on each others rights and steal from each other, people naturally seek authority to stop it and will inheritantly empower the state with more and more power. Problem is eventually the state becomes too powerful and oppression starts coming from it.

Fraud laws were strong in the republic days and corporations had to prove their worth to the public every five years. If a corporation was found to be not working for the public interest, its charter was revoked and it was out of business.

Good post. “God who gave us

Good post.

“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever.”-Thomas Jefferson

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
http://www.thethirdangelsmessage.com/wordpress/should-christ...

Oddly, about an hour ago I

Oddly, about an hour ago I watched a short video that mentioned that beast with the head of a lamb and the voice of a dragon. My question to anyone is (according to that scripture), is it possible this beast has been around awhile?

I know that a verse in Matthew 7 warns against tossing these things out, but I'm curious for my own understanding. Of course, I'm not sure the answer(s) will change what seems quite possible/probable to me. To be succinct, I'd point to the MSM as the only model one needs to understand this. The hand and forehead mentioned of course are not literal.

I believe it has been around

I believe it has been around for awhile, and I also believe that many churches, especially the Catholic have been suppressing many truths and intentionally deceiving multitudes by means of certain theories which have been accepted by most mainstream protestant churches. Such as the first beast being the Papacy or Catholic Church. All of the early reformers including Wesley, Luther, Wycliffe, Calvin, Knox.

But there are certain people who don't want us to see these truths because it would expose what is truly being done to America and how the Papacy has tried to infiltrate the American government secretly for years and bring us into the same type of church/state government that ruled during the dark ages.

Martin Luther aptly conveyed the sentiments of the Protestant reformers when he said “We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist...personally I declare that I owe the Pope no other obedience than that to Antichrist.” (Aug. 18, 1520)

I will be doing further studies on this issue which I believe show beyond doubt that America fits every point of the lamblike beast in Revelation. "He deceiveth the whole world" including Christianity, so much so that they worship the beast. They don't do it knowingly, they are deceived.

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
http://www.thethirdangelsmessage.com/wordpress/should-christ...

Thank you

Thank you, I am glad to see I wasn't the only one thinking along these lines. And I am glad you didn't try to place this soley on the Catholics, as I have a feeling it spreads far beyond that.

I'm endeavoring to seek the truth rather than defending any previous held beliefs, a mistake I have made in the past. It isn't easy for most folks, as the ego(some say this is Satan) feels comfortable with it's current understanding and in politics/religion/life in general, it seems that folks(myself included) are often predisposed to seek a truth that aligns with their current beliefs.

You mention you plan to do further studies on this topic, and if you wish to share them, I would be grateful if you(and/or ANYONE ELSE) PMed me as I am not always on here to catch all of the threads. I wish you well in your search for the truth, and the same to any out there. I think Thomas Jefferson and even Thomas Paine would be relieved to see folks who don't accept teachings just because the majority do.

I haven't heard about it for many years...

...but I remember people telling me that there is a computer in Europe that holds every bit of information out there possible on each individual in the world and the name of it is "The Beast". I have no clue if this is a fact or not.

“The only foundation for

“The only foundation for useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion.”-Thomas Jefferson

“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever.”-Thomas Jefferson

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
http://www.thethirdangelsmessage.com/wordpress/should-christ...

I believe you are confused

A republic: that form of government in which sovereignty is vested in the people and exercised by the people directly.

A democracy: that form of government in which sovereignty is vested in a whole body of free citizens and exercised by elected representatives of that body.

The United States of America as established by the Constitution is
A representative republic: that form of government in which sovereignty is vested in the people and exercised by the people either directly or by representatives who's powers are specifically designated.

A strict republic can be described as self government and can only exist in a civilized society if all members can practice law. Otherwise the people cannot exercise their sovereignty.

As far as I can tell God has no business in government. Your belief in God is between you and them. In fact, according to Jehovahs Witnesses, all governments that exist on earth today are all manifestations of satan. I am no biblical scholar but when I asked a Jehovahs Witness why he did not vote, he quoted some verse of the bible where Satan offered all the kingdoms on earth to Jesus if Jesus would call Satan Lord. To the Jehovahs Witness this was evidence that Satan owned all the governments on earth and all other governments that were conceived by man, and not by God.

Regardless, the notion of forcing your beliefs on someone else is the act of tyranny. Only a tyrant would mix government and religion.

You said: "Only a tyrant would mix government and religion"

You said: "Only a tyrant would mix government and religion"

I agree with you to an extent. However, notice the following quotes carefully.

“Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual...Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us.”~ John Hancock ~

Note carefully what John Adams said:

“Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for Liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free Constitution is pure Virtue, and if this cannot be inspired into our People in a greater Measure than they have it now, They may change their Rulers and the forms of Government, but they will not obtain a lasting Liberty. They will only exchange Tyrants and Tyrannies.”

~ John Adams
Letter to Zabdiel Adams (21 June 1776)

“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” ~ James Madison

“And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.” Psalms 119:45 (KJB)

They didn't leave out God in this, and that is the secret to the prosperity of the nation.

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
http://www.thethirdangelsmessage.com/wordpress/should-christ...

You are seeking truth from a JW?

I am sorry to say this but it is you, that is the one confused!
I will give you two examples ( there are more )....

Genesis Chapter 41 verses 40-43 speaking of Pharoah ( the king )and Joseph:

And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, Forasmuch as God hath shewed thee all this, there is none so discreet and wise as thou art:
40 Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou.
41 And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, See, I have set thee over all the land of Egypt.
42 And Pharaoh took off his ring from his hand, and put it upon Joseph's hand, and arrayed him in vestures of fine linen, and put a gold chain about his neck;
43 And he made him to ride in the second chariot which he had; and they cried before him, Bow the knee: and he made him ruler over all the land of Egypt.

It was God, who set Daniel in the upper seat of the Kings government:

Daniel Chapter 2 verses 47 and 48:

48 Then the king made Daniel a great man, and gave him many great gifts, and made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon, and chief of the governors over all the wise men of Babylon.
49 Then Daniel requested of the king, and he set Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, over the affairs of the province of Babylon: but Daniel sat in the gate of the king.

Your JW friends sadly do not acknowlede the entire Bible as the very Word of God but they have their own (deluted and changed version ) of what they call the bible.

They can be very easily shown in many errors of their teachings.

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

Holbrook-SDA doctrine

Holbrook - This is not JW doctrine. This is SDA understanding of prophecy and they hold that the whole Bible is true and believe in the Trinity and Christ as God. So, be sure you get that straight. the only similarity they have with JW is the belief that there is no physical place called hell but it is a destruction of evil at the end of time.

Anyway, just thought I would clarify.

Healthnut4freedom

The lip of truth shall be established forever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment...Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are His delight. Prov 12:19,22

Thanks Healthnut but.....

I was replying to jpadgets comment:
"As far as I can tell God has no business in government. Your belief in God is between you and them. In fact, according to Jehovahs Witnesses, all governments that exist on earth today are all manifestations of satan"

If you want to use the JWs as any kind of witness then you are going down the wrong road no matter what your doctrine is.

Every JW I have ever met has been most kind, sincere, loving.
They simply do not know the truth given us by Almighty God Himself.

I love them and pray for them that many WILL find the truth and come out of them.

Peace to all my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus!

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

I am not aware of any changes

JW have made to the bible. But I do know they live according to it, a little to 'hive-minded' for my taste. Since you are clearly more knowledgeable in the bible could you please show the verse where God established the United States of America or the prophecy that the United States of America would be created?

The two are equally terrible

A republic is just another form of statism.

I disagree, however, if you

I disagree, however, if you care to elaborate I would be interested in understanding why you believe that:)

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
http://www.thethirdangelsmessage.com/wordpress/should-christ...

Word games

Criminals hiding behind badges tend to use word games to help cover up their crimes.

So why play the same games?

Joe

I think I understand what you

I think I understand what you are trying to say. Sometimes the word "republic" is twisted. And many make the mistake of thinking that democracy and republic are the same thing. But when you carefully study the constitutional republic established by the founders of the country, I think you'll see quite a difference between the republic they founded which protects individual liberty and the democracy which we have today, which takes away the liberties of the people.

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
http://www.thethirdangelsmessage.com/wordpress/should-christ...

Democracy

Can be defined as "individual political power" in may ways not limited to the concept known as "mob rule" which is a form of law or a form of due process.

Democrats are not necessarily people who prefer "mob rule" as a form of government whereby anyone can do anything to anyone else at anytime so long as some nebulous majority said so.

As for the Nation State started in 1788, to which you refer to be a Republic (which it is demonstrably not): perhaps a quick study of one speech by Patrick Henry in opposition to it may help anyone: you, me, or anyone pretending to be an authority on exactly what the so called "founders" started in 1788.

Joe