Why Religion and Morality I think Ron Paul knew this as well.
Submitted by Bigboss on Thu, 06/21/2012 - 05:01A interesting website I found and would like to share.
I believe Ron Paul knew this as well.
WARNING this might offend some anti religion or anti moral viewers
VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED!
below is a part quoted from link below
Why Religion and Morality
In 1776, the year Thomas Jefferson drafted the Declaration of Independence, John Adams wrote to his cousin, “It is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand.” There it is again. Why did the Founding Fathers keep pointing back to these fundamental building blocks? Adams himself answered that question in 1798, while serving as president: “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
There is the answer! They kept referring to religion and morality because, as Adams said, our Constitution was made only for moral and religious people! Now the question is, why? Why was the Constitution written only for moral and religious people? Why was it inadequate to the government of any other?
Alexis de Tocqueville’s 19th-century observations on the American republic answer this critical question. After touring America for two years in the early 1830s, he returned home to France and wrote his political classic, Democracy in America. Like the Founding Fathers, Tocqueville acknowledged that religion and morality were indispensable to the maintenance of the American republic. Why indispensable? He said that while the constitutional law of liberty allowed Americans complete freedom to do as they pleased, religion prevented them from doing that which was immoral and unjust. In short, Tocqueville surmised, liberty could not be governed apart from religious faith, lest there be anarchy.
Without the moral restrictions of a higher spiritual law, the liberty afforded Americans in the Constitution would be abused. George Washington knew that! So did the rest of the Founding Fathers. That’s why they kept harping on religion and morality. They did not want to see the United States of America self-destruct.
The success of our Constitution does not depend on which political party we belong to—it depends on how biblically spiritual we are!
http://www.thetrumpet.com/?q=8438.7170.136.0
-Ron Paul
My faith is a deeply private issue to me, and I don’t speak on it in great detail during my speeches because I want to avoid any appearance of exploiting it for political gain. Let me be very clear here: I have accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Savior, and I endeavor every day to follow Him in all I do and in every position I advocate.
It is God Who gave us life. As He is free, so are those He created in His image. Our rights to life and liberty are inalienable.
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/statement-of-faith/
http://ronpaulflix.com/2011/05/ron-paul-speaks-about-jesus-c...
"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.
John Hancock
1st Signer of the Declaration of Independence
"Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. ... Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us."
--History of the United States of America, Vol. II, p. 229.
George Washington
1st U.S. President
"While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian."
--The Writings of Washington, pp. 342-343.
Thomas Jefferson
3rd U.S. President, Drafter and Signer of the Declaration of Independence
"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever; That a revolution of the wheel of fortune, a change of situation, is among possible events; that it may become probable by Supernatural influence! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in that event."
--Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, p. 237.
John Dickinson
SIGNER OF THE CONSTITUTION; GOVERNOR OF PENNSYLVANIA; GOVERNOR OF DELAWARE; GENERAL IN THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION
Rendering thanks to my Creator for my existence and station among His works, for my birth in a country enlightened by the Gospel and enjoying freedom, and for all His other kindnesses, to Him I resign myself, humbly confiding in His goodness and in His mercy through Jesus Christ for the events of eternity.27
[Governments] could not give the rights essential to happiness… We claim them from a higher source: from the King of kings, and Lord of all the earth.28
granted not all founding fathers had a religion or had a different religion but a lot were Christians.
and some extra sites if interested in reading.
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkJwwtxGJMs i found this to be a good video. added this here June 25,2012 at 8:00pm
2. http://www.americanheritagealliance.org/heritage7.htm
3. http://americanpatriotseries.blogspot.com/2011/07/faith-of-o...
also a interesting part of a Ron Paul news letter.
The ultimate goal of the anti-religious elites is to transform America into a completely secular nation, a nation that is legally and culturally biased against Christianity. ~ Ron Paul
The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders' political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs. Certainly the drafters of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, both replete with references to God, would be aghast at the federal government's hostility to religion. The establishment clause of the First Amendment was simply intended to forbid the creation of an official state church like the Church of England, not to drive religion out of public life.
The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian yet religiously tolerant America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance. Throughout our nation's history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people's allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation's Christian heritage. Christmas itself may soon be a casualty of that war.
December 30, 2003
Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.
- Login to post comments
I have read that the public schools
were instituted as a response to the "threat" of Protestant children attending the Catholic schools that were already operating. It is an interesting perspective and would be important to understanding our country's real history.
Maybe there are some authentic proofs available to investigate this possibility.
I think the founding fathers were mortal men who set up a good system of government. To say that the Constitution was "divinely inspired" would be very wrong and dangerous. To insist that our country and Constitution is based on Christian ethics is correct.
Let's follow the logic of this...
If one is not part of a group, then one cannot have knowledge of that group? I used to be a Christian about 30 years ago. Did I lose knowledge of Christianity the day I became agnostic? Seems to me that Sophia makes a valid point.. There are lots of different kinds of Christianity. Just as there are lots of different kinds of Paganism.
For example, is dancing immoral? Some Christians clearly think so, while others laugh at the idea. Is "speaking in tongues" supposed to make you understandable by everyone, or do you babble a bunch of nonsense that nobody can understand? Again, different denominations will give you very different answers.
The one thing that they all have in common is the golden rule, which makes sense to everyone but utter sociopaths.
Sam Marsh
Musician
http://www.myspace.com/screwthebastards
Did I lose knowledge of Christianity
why is this post clipped before end?
good point larethdf
As xianity was in my home and I was sent to sunday bible school and taught a load of stuff that seemed nonsensical to me have I lost all that knowledge or have I based Spiritual growth on those fallacies and explored dozens of views, religions, philosophies ?
my NATURALLY inquisitive mind has made me discuss Islam with black Muslims in Brooklyn and judaism with Orthodox jews and Ananda Margo with the nuns in a commune on a Mohawk reservation, as well as Sikh beliefs with Sikh women I worked with in a food co op and delved deeply into Mahayana Buddhism for a few years
before I found Theosophy and then Old Tyme Paganism as in NATURE
loving philosophy
have I lost all that on my path to finding that CORE where the Golden Rule dwells in all people ?
must I accept that only xians have access to the place of the Indwelling Divinity ?
I would venture a guess that I have had more exposure to more religions and philosophies than all the xians here who are so O/C about they have to only door and key to some 'heaven"
and need to go to public forums to protest thie 'faith'
Like many Spiritually progressive people we laugh when we say we "DONT WANT TO GO TO ANY HEAVEN DESIGNED BY THOSE XIANS !"
There is a whole world outside of the xian program and until some xian people stop being afraid of going out into that wide open and beautiful world they are standing in the way of progress and will simply be bypassed by the multitude.
Disclaimer here: I used to teach Ancient religions and philosophies in NY and by so doing met incredible people from many beliefs who could network and see common ground.
Finding common ground is a fast track to world peace.
None among us ever told any others the classroom was only for one sect or another. We all made each other feel welcome and hugged with openess any others attending.
Chatting with a black muslim in Prospect park we never told each other to leave to leave the sweet spot even as we disagreed on the origins of religion and causes of its need to create tyranny
which blacks often understand quiet well
Yes some people especially women black or white told me talkig openly with a black male muslim was dangerous but I never fond fear in his eyes and they never found that in mine.
Even when I attended forums at City College mostly ALL black I was able to discuss politics,religion ( mostly muslim there) and womens issues, destructive drug laws, lack of good parenting and even health foods with male and female blacks, Asians, Spanish
and some I had never heard of.
People NEED to have healthy discourse and not lie about others to shut them up and cause SHUNNING
We can do that iinner cities like NY but not HERE ?
yo! you who say you are 'religious', what does that mean if you play forum tyrant?
Today I see my own core as close to Bushido.
I did post that when I first started here and some jerk asked if I am a jap.... lol .
so this is where many xians are now and the cause of so many Secularists or alt thinkers to distance ourselves from their borderline mental conditions
We do have the right to post our thinking and beliefs in an open thread on and open forum and should NOT be subjected to HATE and false accusations.
I have upvoted your post
not because I agree, but because you have given thought to it and written respectfully. Thank you.
I think your term "Indwelling Divinity" could also be expressed as the natural law that is written on the heart of man.
This natural law does not exclude the possibility that the Creator could choose to supersede the laws He has created and directly intervene or manifest Himself to us. This He has done out of His outpouring of love for us. This revelation is as important and binding as the law He has put in our conscious.
here is rest of this post that is clipped
here is rest of post I edited three xz looking for the last part and it was still clipped each time...mmmm?
......
Today I see my own core as close to Bushido.
I did post that when I first started here and some jerk asked if I am a jap.... lol .
so this is where many xians are now and the cause of so many Secularists or alt thinkers to distance ourselves from their borderline mental conditions
We do have the right to post our thinking and beliefs in an open thread on and open forum and should NOT be subjected to HATE and false accusations.
again here is last lines of post tha dont post
whats up mods??
We do have the right to post our thinking and beliefs in an open thread on and open forum and should NOT be subjected to HATE and false accusations.
gone again
those last few lines have been removed
AGAIN
mods WILL have their way and play to their fans
_____________________________
Pagans are tolerant by NATURE.
.
why cant this be posted??
whats the problem here ??
We do have the right to post our thinking and beliefs in an open thread on and open forum and should NOT be subjected to HATE and false accusations.
go in peace and play nice
This OLD lady has seen much and lived/loved a lot and will not be torn down by those who hide behind a myth shaking in FEAR.
_____________________________
Pagans are tolerant by NATURE.
.
mods need to see what holds up lines of a post
see several xz I tied to post this and it was CLIPPED
there must be a gremlin in the cyber lounge, yes?
_____________________________
Pagans are tolerant by NATURE.
.
I'm not sure why you think something is being "clipped."
If a post gets long I have to scroll on the message to finish reading it, regardless of the message. This is a good feature because it allows more individual messages to be viewed on the page and those who want to read a long post may do so easily without having to open another page.
end was missing
the post had no end as I posted it
I reposted it and the end was still missing
it did NOT scroll to the end where the last lines were
it simply clipped the last few lines each time
FINALLY it posted thus several tries
its not important
what ever any one who isnt xian will be voted down
on this site
thats a shame and the reason I stopped promoting this site
there should be a disclaimer notifying people that this is a xian site
too bad as there are good articles and more vids than I get in notices on the latest Ron Paul appearances
but since the xians here are allowed to tell non xians to leave
and accuse us of saying and doint things we have not said or done I will not send any more people here
It reflects badly on Ron Paul
_____________________________
Pagans are tolerant by NATURE.
.
I'm Christian and get downvotes, ...so?
And frankly, I think your tag "Pagans are tolerant by NATURE" is not being reflected in the way you write. If you are tolerant, why do you refuse to call us by the name which we want to be called?
Who cares if somebody tells you to leave? It's their problem, right? Sticks and stones...This place has big ideas and strong feelings- and it's rough and tumble for everyone sometimes. No one actually knows you as a person, and I expect that if we did we would probably really like you.
The Daily Paul is what we make it.
why do you need ....
to claim my writing is not reflected in my sig?
whats that about?
WHERE did I say I get down votes?
in your fantasy ?
everyone does get down votes,
most of those I get are from xians because they feel threatened
woo woo !
lol
as to my using an abbreviation who is it that Pagan here is always spelled pagan?
you use the Royal "we" so I must assume you have held a meeting of xians and chosen a script to present to me
'no one knows most here as person and if we did we might like them'
what has that got to do with the price of coffee in the diner?
what that statement ACTUALLY says is "we" dont like you
in the ugly P/A style one gets to expect from those who write from FEAR and HATE and wish to convey censorship form some nebulous group they want their target to think are standing with them in their pronouncements
did you have a meeting of fellow xians ?
did that group choose a script to use to convey in a gauche manner its desire to censor me?
is your P/A post that script or is it just your own words to try to make me seem like I have kvetched about what down votes I get?
NO WHERE have I ever complained about down votes
Actually I often accept that they are little deposits left by xians who are just playing petty kid tricks and get a short giggle from them
sooo predictable
'If "we" did "we" would probably really like you'
How many people are you speaking for to claim y'all dont " really like you" ??
why dont you give an instant thought to the fact that I dont give a petty kid trick consideration to how you or any people who play P/A content to attempt to shame or shun other people ?
when xians get to understand what makes Pagans work you wont try these little P/A ploys to say " Sophia, I FEAR and HATE you because you represent what is not in my own psychological comfort zone. "
Now thats direct and not P/A but those who use P/A are avoiding their own detritus by their veiled attacks on others.
yours isnt even a polished and well considered attack.
no gold star for you . where is that INTOLERANCE ?
you did try and it shows.
As Pagans follow the Laws of NATURE we are free of any obligations to undermine others.
We simply state what we see as malfeasance or P/A behavior as time wasters. Doncha wish you had that mental/emotional freedom so you didnt waste your time trying so hard to figure how to give me that old back handed gauche slap?
_____________________________
Pagans are tolerant by NATURE.
.
Your point is exactly why the
Your point is exactly why the Constition says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,"
The "Golden Rule" "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" Is the simple expresion of Natural Law as well. That is what this country is founded on.
Unfortunalely, so many these days simply just don't care.
Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
John Adams
Here is a good read
in line with the OP's topic.
Also gives a good persepctive for today - the excerpts from the Winston Chruchill biography regarding Hitler are quite intriguing.
PROPHECY & POLITICAL ACTIVISM PEACEFUL WORDS, PROVOCATIVE DEEDS
http://www.thebereancall.org/content/june-2012-classic
The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.
Ron Paul - The Revolution
Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms. Ron Paul
That's a very long story to
That's a very long story to make the argument that morals only come from religion.. or not just any religion, your particular religion (how convenient) and that without religion (or another religion) morals wouldn't exist and liberty wouldn't be possible.
Phrased like that.. it just sounds wrong to me. I couldn't disagree more, but you're entitled to your opinion of course. If your religion is your big reason to support liberty, that's fine by me. To me, that's the thing that makes liberty possible: we can never agree on everything, and to do so would be very unhealthy (think North Korea), so let's work from where we agree and leave each other be where we don't!
Freedom Broadcasting Network - independent grassroots network
www.fbn.tv
Good post LD.
Good post LD.
The quotes from these men
might make it seem as though they where devout Christians. Yet many of them did not hold themselves to a higher standard. The skeletons in their closet don't reflect that of a Christian. Now I'm not denying that this country was set up as a religous society but if the men who did it where false prophets than what is the worth of debating this in the first place.
“We hold these truths to be self evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”Thomas Jefferson
approximately 38,000 Christian denominations
AH! Religion ! what a wonderful tool to DIVIDE and CONQUER !
Some groups included do not consider themselves a denomination (e.g., the Catholic Church considers itself the one true Church, and as pre-denominational). Regarding the use of the word "church," the Catholic Church does not consider any groups or denominations to be true "churches" unless they have maintained apostolic succession and observe the seven sacraments (by this definition, the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian Church of the East, and a few other churches (PNCC, some Old Catholics, etc.) are, for the most part, the only other Christian groupings considered by the Catholic Church to be true "churches").[1]
Some groups are large (e.g. Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans or Baptists), while others are just a few small churches, and in most cases the relative size is not evident in this list. Also, modern movements such as Fundamentalist Christianity, Pietism, Evangelicalism, Pentecostalism and the Holiness movement sometimes cross denominational lines, or in some cases create new denominations out of two or more continuing groups, (as is the case for many United and uniting churches, for example). Such subtleties and complexities are not clearly depicted here. Additionally, some groups viewed by non-adherents as denominational actively resist being called a "denomination" and do not have any formal denominational structure, authority, or record-keeping beyond the local congregation; several groups within Restoration Movement fall into this category.
Note: This is not a complete list, but aims to provide a comprehensible overview of the diversity among denominations of Christianity. As there are reported to be approximately 38,000 Christian denominations,[2] many of which cannot be verified to be significant, only those denominations with Wikipedia articles will be listed in order to ensure that all entries on this list are notable and verifiable.
Note: Between denominations, theologians, and comparative religionists there are considerable disagreements about which groups can be properly called Christian, disagreements arising primarily from doctrinal differences between groups. For the purpose of simplicity, this list is intended to reflect the self-understanding of each denomination. Explanations of different opinions concerning their status as Christian denominations can be found at their respective articles.
Note: There is no official recognition in most parts of the world for religious bodies, and there is no official clearinghouse which could determine the status or respectability of religious bodies. Often there is considerable disagreement between various churches about whether other churches should be labeled with pejorative terms such as "cult", or about whether this or that group enjoys some measure of respectability. Such considerations often vary from place to place, where one religious group may enjoy majority status in one region, but be widely regarded as a "dangerous cult" in another part of the world. Inclusion on this list does not indicate any judgment about the size, importance, or character of a group or its members.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations
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Pagans are tolerant by NATURE.
.
As a pagan Sophia, you are
As a pagan Sophia, you are completely out of the loop for judging a group you do not understand. You have no actual interest in this topic.
Start your own thread on what interests you. It's called being positive - instead of trying to prevent others from building.
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.
Just because a person
Just because a person practices one thing doesn't mean they have no understanding of others. Pot meet kettle.
Okay, seriously. Downvoted
Okay, seriously. Downvoted for stating that a person can know about things that they don't practice? Is that factually untrue? No. GFY.
you have no clue as to what a Pagan is max
poor you
_____________________________
Pagans are tolerant by NATURE.
.
And you don't see me getting
And you don't see me getting on threads for pagans trying to interfere with communication between themselves either.
Why? It's not enough for you to disagree. You want to censure communication. You're like a book burner.
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.
where are those threads max??
where are any threads in which I or anyone else has been
"trying to interfere with communication between themselves either." ??
now get real max
" You want to censure communication. "
WHERE have I or anyone else tried to censure communication
your claiming what I want to do is projecting your desires onto me
u do realize the pathy of that dont you ?
it is you who have told me to go elsewhere and I have no knowledge or interest in your thread
wow
been drinking some altar wine have u ??
share the same funny smokes as honorgod do u?
There will be no more responses to your puerile pronouncements as
unworthy of my time and energy
you border on mental imbalance with these lies
my tolerance with your false accusations has run out
you better run to the mods and curse me and demand I be
kicked out as seems is your wont to do when u HATE others for their views
_____________________________
Pagans are tolerant by NATURE.
.
making me guilty of a sin I have not committed
First max
I have every right to hold an opinion on any topic
second max
I have every right to post in a thread words I
think are pertinent to this thread
third max
you have no right to pass judgement on what
I have an interest in
thats a very juvenile ploy called projection
and last but MOST of all
"trying to prevent others from building."
How dare you accusing me of trying to prevent others
from ANYTHING
you do a lot of accusing max
I have read some of your posts in the mod channel
you seem to have a godcomplex
get your rules off my right to post where I choose
learn to tolerate others views and rights and dont try to draw fences around what you want to keep your own little exclusive chat room
check your inner tyrant !
_____________________________
Pagans are tolerant by NATURE.
.
So now your argument
has moved from flat out denying that we were founded as a Christian nation to now just Christianity is "bad" and you think it needs to be discredited...at least that is a little closer to the truth of where you are coming from.
I also think that based on your statements, it is you who are seeking to divide and conquer.
This country wasn't founded
This country wasn't founded as a xtian nation. Most of the founding fathers were Deists. Why do people need to claim that they were xtian? "The 1796 Treaty with Tripoli states that the United States was "not in any sense founded on the Christian religion". This was not an idle statement meant to satisfy muslims-- they believed it and meant it. This treaty was written under the presidency of George Washington and signed under the presidency of John Adams."
http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html
Treaty of Tripoli Forgery
"The Treaty of Tripoli was signed in Tripoli on November 4th, 1796. The English text of the treaty was approved by the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797 and ratified by President John Adams on June 10, 1797. It was recently discovered that the US copy of the Arabic version of the treaty not only lacks the quotation, it lacks Article XI altogether. Instead it seems to contain the text of a letter to the Pasha of Tripoli from the Dey of Algiers.
The person who translated the Arabic to English was Joel Barlow,
Consul General at Algiers, a close friend of Thomas Paine -- and an
opponent of Christianity."
This is a forgery that has been talked about online for decades. It would be meanigless in any case 1800 is nowhere close to any founding date of the country, but it's forged on top of that.
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.
whats your source/proof
US Treaty with Tripoli, 1796-1797
Authored by American diplomat Joel Barlow in 1796, the following treaty was sent to the floor of the Senate, June 7, 1797, where it was read aloud in its entirety and unanimously approved. John Adams, having seen the treaty, signed it and proudly proclaimed it to the Nation.
snip
Signed and sealed at Tripoli of Barbary the 3d day of Junad in the year of the Hegira 1211— corresponding with the 4th day of November, 1796
Body of the Treaty is here
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html
...
The U.S. Constitution
The United States Constitution serves as the law of the land for America and indicates the intent of our Founding Fathers. The Constitution forms a secular document, and nowhere does it appeal to God, Christianity, Jesus, or any supreme being. (For those who think the date of the Constitution contradicts the last sentence, see note 1 at the end.)
The U.S. government derives from people (not God), as it clearly states in the preamble: "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union...."
The omission of God in the Constitution did not come out of forgetfulness, but rather out of the Founding Fathers purposeful intentions to keep government separate from religion.
Although the Constitution does not include the phrase "Separation of Church & State," neither does it say "Freedom of religion." However, the Constitution implies both in the 1st Amendment. As to our freedoms, the 1st Amendment provides exclusionary wording:
Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. [bold caps, mine]
Thomas Jefferson made an interpretation of the 1st Amendment to his January 1st, 1802 letter to the Committee of the Danbury Baptist Association calling it a "wall of separation between church and State." Madison had also written that "Strongly guarded. . . is the separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States." There existed little controversy about this interpretation from our Founding Fathers.
If religionists better understood the concept of separation of Church & State, they would realize that the wall of separation actually protects their religion. Our secular government allows the free expression of religion and non-religion. Today, religions flourish in America; we have more churches than Seven-Elevens.
Although many secular and atheist groups today support and fight for the wall of separation, this does not mean that they wish to lawfully eliminate religion from society. On the contrary, you will find no secular or atheist group attempting to ban Christianity, or any other religion from American society.
Keeping religion separate allows atheists and religionists alike, to practice their belief systems, regardless how ridiculous they may seem, without government intervention.
___________________________________________
The Declaration of Independence
Many Christian's who think of America as founded upon Christianity usually present the Declaration of Independence as "proof" of a Christian America. The reason appears obvious: the Declaration mentions God. (You may notice that some Christians avoid the Constitution, with its absence of God.)
However, the Declaration of Independence does not represent any law of the United States. It came before the establishment of our lawful government (the Constitution). The Declaration aimed at announcing the separation of America from Great Britain and it listed the various grievances with them. The Declaration includes the words, "The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America." The grievances against Great Britain no longer hold today, and we have more than thirteen states.
Although the Declaration may have influential power, it may inspire the lofty thoughts of poets and believers, and judges may mention it in their summations, it holds no legal power today. It represents a historical document about rebellious intentions against Great Britain at a time before the formation of our government.
Of course the Declaration stands as a great political document. Its author aimed at a future government designed and upheld by people and not based on a superstitious god or religious monarchy.
It observed that all men "are created equal" meaning that we all have the natural ability of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That "to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men."
Please note that the Declaration says nothing about our rights secured by Christianity. It bears repeating: "Governments are instituted among men."
The pursuit of happiness does not mean a guarantee of happiness, only that we have the freedom to pursue it. Our Law of the Land incorporates this freedom of pursuit in the Constitution. We can believe or not believe as we wish. We may succeed or fail in our pursuit, but our Constitution (and not the Declaration) protects our unalienable rights in our attempt at happiness.
Moreover, the mentioning of God in the Declaration does not describe the personal God of Christianity. Thomas Jefferson who held deist beliefs, wrote the majority of the Declaration. The Declaration describes "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God." This nature's view of God agrees with deist philosophy and might even appeal to those of pantheistical beliefs, but any attempt to use the Declaration as a support for Christianity will fail for this reason alone.
As a very wise man in he last century said:
"Get to know the laws of nature and live by them".
___________________________________
http://www.nobeliefs.com/Tripoli.htm
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Those xians who keep bringing their religion into politics do more harm that good. Many, MANY run from the republican party BECAUSE of the rabid religious element. Embracing America as it was defined by the creator of the constitution is patriotism
Trying to reframe the Constitution to suit religious beliefs is to corrupt America and drive us back to the reasons so many left Europe seeking FREEDOMS .
Perhaps those who are in NEED of constant profession of their religious beliefs need a sub forum where they can rhapsodize endlessly on their dedication to their mythological icons. There ARE sub forums here.
Pagans are tolerant by NATURE.
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