113 votes

Infiltrating the Democratic Party for Liberty

I think anyone who has been listening to Dr. Paul and actually looking can safely say that currently there is zero difference between the current Republican Party and the current Democratic Party.

We've seen what we can accomplish within the Republican Party to get it back to its roots. (yes I realize there is still much to do and the fight is never really over) With that being said, Dr. Paul has maintained the reason he isn't going to go third party is because currently it is too difficult to get anything to happen via third party.

My "idea" or question if you will is....How do we start to bring the Democratic Party more inline with the Liberty movement as well?

I'm certainly NOT saying any of us should switch to the Democratic Party..but what I am saying is AFTER August (when "party vote" no longer matters) perhaps we should start talking to Democrats we know and work on showing them the benefits of Liberty but have them STAY in the Democratic Party.

Imagine if BOTH parties began to be taken over by the Liberty Movement and then started electing Liberty minded individuals. Then it wouldn't matter if your State was mostly Republican or mostly Democrat...because the Liberty Movement would be represented in both. Imagine Liberty Candidates being voted into Congress regardless of party affiliation!

Yes..I understand your first reaction might be "Democrats will never work towards Liberty because they want to have a nanny state"....but I disagree. While I think there will always be differences..there will be just as many similarities...and the pros outweigh the cons.

So..start thinking about those "die hard Democrats" you know...maybe you'll never be able to convince them to vote Republican, but you might be able to get them to support a Liberty Candidate who happens to be a Democrat.

Much Luv and Respect!




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Sounds good, but...

There is logic to this idea, clearly. However, as a practical matter, it is much, much harder than the GOP strategy. It has been tried in the 1990s with the libertarian Democratic Freedom Caucus (a complement to the existing libertarian Republican Liberty Caucus).

I would like to be wrong, but when you hold your first outreach booth at a Dem event you will see. There are both retorical and historical reasons we can get a foothold in the GOP (as we have) that are not duplicated in the Democratic Party.

We need to reach out to every group, everywhere. But my experience tells me using the Dem party as an electoral vehicle (as opposed to simply a target for our marketing efforts) just aint gonna work.

Use the OPH booth with the two-dimensional political spectrum. It will be discooncerting. Grass roots Dem Party activists are a different breed than our Democratic-voting friends or even lefties like OWS or anti-war groups. Dem party activists -- even at the grass roots level -- are pro-government in general and they know it.

Liberty is an idea that cannot be stopped by any party

From experience, I have the opposite opinion. I agree with people in Democratic Party (started by Jefferson and Jackson) much more often than I agree with the neocons in the Republican Party (started by Lincoln, who coincidentally had a fiat currency and started a war).

You will find this if you go to the Democrat's events. You will find much more agreement, and therefore, you will be able to persuade them easier on other subjects where their is a *perceived* disagreement.

Seriously, just try talking to a Democratic *neighbor or friend*, and you will see that they agree in fundamentals with us on monetary policy and war policy. That's much more than we have with the Republicans, who only seem to barely agree with us on taxes and fight any effort for bailout transparency or peace.

So, I think we have done the hard part: taking over the GOP. Now, we turn to the Democratic party and work from within. After the education given to us by the authoritarian worms in the establishment GOP who have turned Nazi on us this past election, we will be very prepared to take over the Democratic party as well.

A movement such as are transcends political boundaries and politics. Liberty is an idea that cannot be stopped by any army, any government, or any party.

wolfe's picture

Who said it has to be...

"libertarian" anything?... :) See that's the point. Wrap the ideas up in a cool dem label, and resell 'em. Something like, "Classic Liberal Group"... Or "Civil Liberty Caucus".... Don't even need the word liberty in it. The point is to get the ideas into their heads before they realize to put up defenses.

The ideas themselves are popular in the Dem circles, if the large number of Ron Paul Democrats can be used as an indicator (we have equal support across the entire spectrum).

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

great concept

we have more in common than not. especially now.

create a strict platform of hot buttons...and don't deviate.

put up a website/ message board or facebook... only allow discussion in those specific topics.

once you have a decent following, slowly introduce 1 new hybrid topic, say 1 a quarter.

link with Drinking for Liberty.

good luck!

estanislao

Screw all parties

While I have always agreed with speaking to those outside the republican party, I would suggest just speaking to people as citizens and nothing else. Liberty does not need to be confined to any one political party and truth be told, it is not fully welcome in any....yes even the LP. (Bob Barr anyone? lol)
Trying to sort folks by political party and tailoring messages as such is wasted energy and in some ways undermines our cause. To continue also keeps us dangerously close to becoming that which we fight. No longer is the time when we are reduced to prying for one or two points to agree on with someone just to try and get a vote. A noble effort for sure, but that time has passed. From now on I am trying my best to conciously stop that line of thinking and just live an example as well as speaking and promoting the cause of liberty. If we get people to embrace the ideas, they may one day truly ignore party labels and demand the most from candidates as we here do now. The masses now are so divided by stupid labels that I feel there is much needed promotion of liberty as the truly non partisan good for all cause that it is.
I guess what I am saying is that this thread and it's idea is a good one, but also think about just engaging people...with no preconceptions of them...with no agenda involving any party, just the ideas of freedom.

You can feel and say "screw it" gopcynic, but you still must

deal with these facts of human reality addressed here:

http://www.dailypaul.com/217383/go-libertarian-or-go-freedom...

Treg

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

Agree - my hard core Dem family members

Were receptive to listening to RP's message when I said he's anti war too. One voted for him last election.

RP R3VOLution

This strategy COULD be good...

But, it won't work if we try to cast a wide net across the Democrat party like we have the Republican party.

As was said before, Democrats are largely statist to their core.

I think the primary focus should be with the Republican Party. At least there we have some mutual level of agreement on many issues with the general voting bloc here.

If we want to have influence within Team Donkey, the best bet would be to target areas where the Democrats have such an overwhelming advantage that Republicans just can't break through. Find incumbents who aren't doing as well with their constituents, or are riddled with scandal, prop up liberty-minded candidates to primary them, and let's see what happens.

If we try to cast too wide the net, we run the risk of diluting the message too far this early in the game.

And by "General Republican Voting Bloc..."

I mean the typical voter, who considers themselves Republican. They're NOT necessarily neo-cons, but it's the ONLY message they're receiving. Since it's all they're exposed to, it's all they know.

You talk policy, issues, and general ideology with them, and many largely agree with us on at least SOME major issues, and quite a few secondary/tertiary issues as well.

I don't think it's possible

Democrats are statists at the core of their beliefs, and statism is anti-liberty.

I have recently been hanging out with an extended family member who is a vivid example of the Obama-neoliberal-Democratic party core. He smokes weed, loves the welfare state, defends drone attacks and Stalinist intervention in the domestic food supply/war on family farms.

You can't talk intelligently with neolibs any more than with neocons.

Take back the GOP and Restore America Now.

Just the title says it all!

Good idea, now it's their turn! Hah!

From my experience there are

From my experience there are just as many "democrats' and there are "republicans" who say they agree with portions of Ron Pauls statements. As a matter of fact, when talking with democrats, Ron Paul's platform is the only republican platform many of them can find any common ground with (though just as the neocons, they also find their disagreements). I think it is a great idea! At this point there really isn't much of a difference between the republicans and the democrats. People just like to associate themselves with a title more than with actual ideals. For a vast majority many republicans and democrats don't really even know why they are republicans or democrats, other than they choose to always vote for one or the other.

I agree with the last post, for now stick with what we are doing, but after Tampa we concentrate on both parties. It only takes one individual at a time. You tell one person about liberty, they tell the people they know and it's like a tidal wave.

K.C.

My thoughts...stick to one party for now

Only because it's soooo challenging to take over one party. Any party can control a state. Even a blue state can turn red. Look at how Romney became governor in MA, Gary Johnson in NM, and Chris Christie in NJ.

I would focus on the Republican Party. Once we got that wrapped up (which continues to be quite a challenge), we can focus on the Dems.

Why not?

its another way to spread the message and get people on the right track and i am sure Democrats are not any harder than Republicans to get.

tasmlab's picture

Ambitious

It would be tough to get them to liberty, but I'd settle for some principled, anti war progressives who understood how money works

Currently consuming: Harry Browne, Free Domain Radio; JT Gatto and Holt; Wii U

Good idea!

I agree with this. This is what we do in NH.

If you are liberty minded you will get support from the liberty community.

Of course the Dems are not good on fiscal issues so fiscally conservative Dems stick out like sore thumbs and their overseers give them hell when they don't vote for higher taxes and budgets.

Both Dems and Repubs are bad on Fed, Foreign Policy and Personal Freedom issues but not at the local level.

Our 'tea party' legislature that swept in and took over in 2010 has many Paul supporters and other conservatives who are very good on the above three things.

Democrats are far more likely than Republicans to favor single-payer health care, and food stamps - which is NOT a good thing. Republicans are far more likely to favor tax cuts but they are NOT for the 'rich' but the middle class, and are NOT at the expense of programs that benefit the poor.

Jane Aitken, 35-Year Veteran Teacher
Ron Paul 2008 Consultant
GOP Woman of the Year 2009
Founder NH Tea Party Coalition (NOT AFFILIATED WITH ANY FAKE 2009 GROUP)
Founder USPEINetwork @ Yahoo (Nat'l Edu Activism Group)
Board Coalition of NH Taxpayers

False equivalence

The Democratic and Republican parties are *not* carbon copies of one another. No doubt, both are pro-war and both are strongly influenced by corporate interests. But, seriously, have you read Paul Ryan's 2013 Budget proposal and compared it to Obama's? Discretionary spending for programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security are drastically different. Democrats are far more likely than Republicans to favor same-sex marriage, single-payer health care, and food stamps. Republicans are far more likely to favor tax cuts (especially for the rich) at the expense of programs that benefit the poor.

"Listening to Dr. Paul"? Check.
"Actually looking"? Doesn't seem like it.

You are pointing out preferences of individuals who identify

with the parties. Not the parties themselves.

Obama and the Democrats while screaming against the Bush era tax cuts (for the benefit of followers, no doubt) went ahead and extended them anyway.

Even though individual Republicans rally against expansion of Medicare, it was under NeoCon Republican Bush that the controversal and incredibly expensive drug coverage benefit was proposed and passed.

The parties scream different rhetoric, mostly to give followers the illusion that there are difference. As Jesse Ventura mentions, like professional wrestlers, they scream about how they hate each other for the cameras. But when the cameras are turned off, the differences are put aside.

Democrat Obama, with a Democrat Congress and Democrat

Senate - never even put Single Payer on the table.

That's right. When "all options were to be considered", single payer wasn't even granted status as an "option".

There are certainly liberal people who favor single-payer, but the controlling Democrat Party at the time favored the same solution for health care that Republican Romney had favored granting HUGE benefits to the multi-billion dollar healthcare insurance industry.

Carbon copy, without a doubt.

I agree 110%

with this idea. I've thought of the same thing when I listened to this debate between Jason Castle and Diane Sare. Both running for Democratic congress. Check it out here, a very funny debate, given that the stupid one tries to imitate Pres. Obama. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWHDVOvKzBk

It was then that I thought to myself. Damn, why don't I run for public office as a Democrat? (Though I think you have to be at least 30 yrs old to run) I just became a Republican this year to vote for Ron Paul, so maybe I could become a Democrat again and try to get the liberty message to take over the Democratic party as well! I already know we'll undoubtedly take over the GOP if we continue our current grassroots organization. So let's start getting the fires of liberty started in the Left. Since both sides are the same anyway, let's make them the same on the issues that matter! Have both parties embrace Austrian economics, constitutional adherence, embrace of the free market to end corporate greed, end the influence of lobbyists, and bring an end to the wars having them declared once again.

Sounds platinum to me! Call it Operation Leferty (The Left for Liberty)! ^__^

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from his government." - Thomas Paine

(╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯┻━┻ "RON PAUL 2012 DAMNIT!"

Blue Dog Democrats

Can always work our way in as "Blue Dog" Democrats. The democratic congressional coalition that claims to be fiscally conservative.

I'm thinking of...

how I would perceive this had I learned that Democrats were attempting to infiltrate the Libertarian party. I wouldn't like it very much. Maybe this could be used as an option after other approaches have been tried.

I think what must occur first is an overwhelming citizen effort (regardless of party lines) to end corporate-backed politician support as well as the lobbies. That may seem obvious, but there isn't nearly enough real effort put into this cause right now, just lots of verbal agreement on that fact. We are too divided as a country to come together in the way we need to in order to accomplish this goal.

Citizens have the right to debate and support a party that they feel represents them, but right now this "right" is being turned against us by media/corporate/lobbyist manipulation. Our parties look exactly the same because they are equally bought out by the same interests. Meanwhile, we are being pitted one against the other and it's all to perpetuate the facade of a two-party system. This must end before any citizens are able to be represented, regardless of their party affiliation. I think the "my party" rhetoric should be put on hold until we as citizens make sure we have true representation in our elected offices. Unfortunately not nearly enough people realize what's going on, or they are too distracted and apathetic to care about politics to begin with.

So after this has been accomplished can we have true political debate and representation. At this point, I still disagree with the infiltration strategy. I think if you believe in your party/candidate there is no reason you should hide that fact. It's not easy, but stand behind your beliefs, show people exactly why you feel so strongly, prove to them you are a regular guy or gal that wants freedom and has compassion for others and wants what's best for our country as well as the generations after us. That will lend much more credibility then going undercover, particularly if the strategy is discovered. We're at a point where the public basically believes Republican = the rich man's party, whereas the Democratic party is viewed as the party for regular folk and has compassion for the poor. And, this may sound really immature, but it's still "uncool" to identify as a Republican. That thinking needs to change.

I'm not saying I totally disagree with this tactic, but I think it should be used as a last resort after corporate/lobby influence has ended and other more direct strategies have been attempted and failed.

It's that golden rule

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...

There is nothing to be ashamed about in Ron Paul's message. I', with you BBtrix.

Beautiful post!

Not to throw a wrench in your plans or anything, but

"a Liberty Candidate who happens to be a Democrat" would be rather unlikely, since the Democratic party is not exactly in line with protecting our rights so long as they don't infringe on anyone else's rights (plundering hard workers to pay for another to have the "right" to free housing is not in line with liberty) as is the Republican party. This is why Ron Paul says he most aligns himself philosophically with the Republican Party "I represent the Republican wing of the Republican Party" quote from Dr. Ron Paul. Remember, the Republican party has strayed far from its moorings and its own writings. That's why Ron Paul is trying to save the Republican party.

In Liberty Defined, for example on Abortion (a known Democratic position) Ron Paul says that without the pre-born's right to life being guarded and defended, that little person can have no other rights of liberty or the pursuit of happiness. Plus he views abortion as an act of violence against another person, albeit a small person in a special place. As a Doctor he knows it and as a Christian he believes it that life begins at conception, not passing through the birth canal. He always said he was caring for two patients with an expectant mother.

So it seems more of a possibility that Democrats will join the liberty movement than that they will make serious inroads within their own party. Look at what a hard time we have in the Republican Party. I could be wrong. Just my thoughts.

I share your thoughts

And I appreciate how you worded your post, and I LOVE your choice of quotes and examples.

AWESOME post, TY

Thank You

very kindly!

Democrats have never met a

Democrats have never met a problem they didn't want to solve by creating a new government program or else by expanding an existing government program. So good luck with getting the Democrats to go along with limited, constitutional government.

Well, simple.

"How do we start to bring the Democratic Party more inline with the Liberty movement?"

Boost Libertarian Party this year. If LP gets 15% or more, the two-party monopoly will be over. Both GOP and DEM will adapt some of the LP platform since the main parties have run out of good ideas on their own.

We may also need LP in 2016 if Romney runs unopposed.

Couple of things...

If you live in a heavily Democratic area like I do (Philadelphia), then register Democrat and get involved in politics. Stick to civil (individual) rights, maybe an anti-drug war stance, pro- a worker's right to organize with others, and other areas that we can attract Democrats but stick to our principles without using Republican/conservative talking points or buzzwords.

Simple Facts and Plain Arguments
A common sense take on politics and current events.

http://simplefactsplainarguments.blogspot.com

JanBrennan, Here is a longer version of your idea...

http://www.dailypaul.com/217383/go-libertarian-or-go-freedom...

Treg

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820