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We need a militia. A large one, soon.

I think with this SCOTUS ruling another strike has been dealt to liberty below the belt. Exercising 2nd amendment rights anybody? This is becoming ridiculous, and I am terrified of an Obama term two. I am even more terrified of a Romney presidency.....



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Never surrender your liberty?

90% of the laws on the books are unconstitutional. You have indeed surrendered your liberty, as you continue to live as tax livestock. If you sit there clinging to the crumbs of your freedom, does that count as "never surrendering" ?

The lesson is that government cannot be controlled. The chains of the constitution were nothing more than paper links. They restrain nothing. Constitutionalism is a giant failure, at least as a way of protecting freedom. Time for the Paulites to read up on market anarchism.

'The Anarchists are simply unterrified Jeffersonian Democrats. They believe that “the best government is that which governs least,” and that which governs least is no government at all.'
-Benjamin Tucker

Taxes don't mean $hit if they haven't taken your mind and body:)

As long as you and I Breathe, Live, and Speak, the idea of individual liberty and free market right now will never die, At what time in history has Liberty been spoken of so universally?, Yes the bankers have taken complete control of the system but what they want is our minds and control, they want us spiritually and morally dead, and because they can't have that, they continue to push harder, so I will too

Anarchism is opposed to the STATE which i Agree with, but if anarchists criticize Capitalism and Socialism all they want, they must be aware that those ideas are easy to take and oppress and enforce on people, hence it is a human issue that is the problem not the ideology. Human psychopathology remains free of any system. The dilemma we face in this country is a psychological one, not ideological because liberty shouldn't be defined as an idea, it is the universal way of life.

The first five months of each year is all slave labor.

Taxes matter quite a bit.

I'm not capitalist or socialist. I'm a market anarchist. A voluntaryist. I don't understand the distinctions you are trying to make in the rest of your post.

'The Anarchists are simply unterrified Jeffersonian Democrats. They believe that “the best government is that which governs least,” and that which governs least is no government at all.'
-Benjamin Tucker

sorry if my words are too complicated....

The problem is not the ideology, it's us

No.

The words aren't too complicated. I understand all the words, I don't see the point you are making. Even your most recent post is a mystery to me. What ideology isn't the problem? What is wrong with us?

'The Anarchists are simply unterrified Jeffersonian Democrats. They believe that “the best government is that which governs least,” and that which governs least is no government at all.'
-Benjamin Tucker

The point is...

When you have men who lack any conscience whatsoever run a country, it becomes a pathocracy, the country is destroyed from the inside, it's happened to many empires and we won't be excluded from it. doesn't matter if its democracy, capitalist, socialist, any of this/ Libertarianism and a republic for a country are very good ideas, but no matter what wicked men can always bend systems for their own interest or others who share the same goals as them

not always.

Only if they have government as a tool. Take any group of wicked wealthy men, and none of them could wage a war without taxation power and/or a central bank. Market anarchism is the ultimate decentralization. There is no state apparatus to be controlled. It's the ABSENCE of a central system that makes the system impossible to be controlled.

'The Anarchists are simply unterrified Jeffersonian Democrats. They believe that “the best government is that which governs least,” and that which governs least is no government at all.'
-Benjamin Tucker

If our free republic with a free market can turn into this....

anything is possible, I like the concept of market anarchism but I have to delve much deeper. The Federal reserve was created pretty much with deception, trickery, and secrecy. Even though our constitution and laws ban these systems and declare them illegal to operate, it still happened. In our case it is basically psychopathic minds running the country and working with higher power interests as they carry no loyalty towards us, it's only for their interest, and yes, the acts they pass do grant them more power and flexibilty. Maybe through execution they will get the point, because psychopaths can't feel remorse, or guilt at all, they will keep doing the damage, and they see nothing wrong with it. I think the people will have these guys hanged or shot or something because who would feel sympathy for someone like that. Even people who don't know about Ron Paul are starting to point fingers at our leadership

The republic is the problem. It's not free.

Why cling to the republic? The scope of its powers (quite limited) could not be contained. Its the worship of a perceived inherent "legitimacy" that lets government run amok. People have to worship government or at least have some sort of irrational attachment to it, in order for it to have true power.

What you seem to be saying is that market anarchism could end up with the same results as a republic. This is absolutely ridiculous. This idea has been repeatedly debunked for the past 4 decades. There's nothing left to beat of the dead horse. If you have any intellectual curiosity at all, you would have stumbled upon a solid refutation of it by now.

The point is that we don't need masters. By accepting that we do, you give them all the legitimacy they need to grow any peaceful republic into a tyrannical superstate. It's the perceived legitimacy and the allegiance that most people (including yourself) surrender that makes it all possible.

'The Anarchists are simply unterrified Jeffersonian Democrats. They believe that “the best government is that which governs least,” and that which governs least is no government at all.'
-Benjamin Tucker

Do you hear yourself when you talk?

Have some respect, your looking for trouble, I didn't say that it could end up with same results, I read it, its a nice theory but I dont agree, there are extremely few if any instances where large masses of people have organized themselves without government help, voluntary help doesn't do shit. Where would police money from to protect me from hitting you on the head for talking garbage, voluntary?, lol taxation from a politician who we voted for to give to the police to protect citizens. division of labor with sound order naturally works with human beings ppl. Who the fuck said masters?, People like Ron Paul, MLK, Ghandi, weren't our masters, they were men of good will and sound conscience, all they do is tell us to get along together, Your the one who can't get along with others and putting them down, If you had any knowledge of the real things in life you would refrain from talking garbage, how much did you read into psychopathology, How many of Ron Pauls books have you read to refute it, how many weeks your on here, 3 weeks?. And if you don't agree the system is working against us and RP and turning into a dictatorship, then go on a website where your views are supported, If the limited government has conscience good willed people running the show with necessary enforcement to tax you because you pay for public roads, fire department, and putting satellites in space, Then thats a working system. maybe people should enforce themselves instead of having police around, I bet the rapists and gangsters would love that, no police or enforcement agency, just pure carnage.

People said the same about slavery...

People said the same about slavery. Because no one could point to one, it couldn't exist. People said the same about women's rights. No society allows all women equal chances in the workforce, therefore it's the natural order and it can never be otherwise. And today they'll say the same thing about a free society. It's really more than a "nice" theory. Friedman's "Machinery of Freedom" (available for free online) is probably the best case made.

The histories of people like RP, Gandhi, and MLK have also been idealized, where the good parts are worshiped, and the bad is ignored.

As for "putting people down," if anyone has thin enough skin to be offended by what a random person on the internet (read ME) says, then it's not the right place to hang out. I try to be honest, and sometimes it's a little brutal. Same thing when you try to tell hardcore statists that the welfare state has not worked. They get VERY upset.

I've read 2 of RP's books and I supported him for over a year in the 2009-2010 range. Like I've said many times before, the amount of time someone has been registered on a forum is really irrelevant, yet people keep trying to bring that up. Makes people sound like public sector union thugs. "I got seniority over you....".

Lots of people here are already anarchists at heart, but the end of your post shows you have not truly adopted the philosophy of freedom. To say you would tax me means you would threaten me if you had the power to do so. "Well that's a bit of a problem." The problem with that is it's arbitrary. You think police and courts are ends where the means of aggressive violence are justified. Leftists and rightists agree with you on principle, just a difference in degree. You make the difference between you and Obama one of degree. You both think it's okay to steal, but only when the ends are justified in YOUR opinion. I don't think theft is ever okay, even if I think I would be able to spend the money well. You still have a little bit of central planner left in you.

'The Anarchists are simply unterrified Jeffersonian Democrats. They believe that “the best government is that which governs least,” and that which governs least is no government at all.'
-Benjamin Tucker

Still a bit of central Planning!?

its extremely disrespecting and stupid to compare me to the government. I would die for the Individual right of Liberty, I would sacrifice my talent ,career,anything, everything to, vote, fight, and pick up a weapon so that my children will be free from tyranny one day, , that's How ready I am to die, My race has fought for thousands of years against multiple countries to fight for freedom, it is in the middle east, I have crossed the Iraqi, Iranian borders escaping the revolutionary guard armed with machine guns, just to see what the country has turned into, I cant even talk about some of the things ive seen, I think I have that appreciation of life and liberty. my family was in the middle of Saddam and shahs war in the borders while being shelled in 1989, so many stayed behind to pick up guns and go liberate their people., that was taking action, thats defending freedom. please dont make a sorry ass attempt to compare me with obama. my loyalty is to the US equally, another country who fought for liberty, You have the balls to compare me to Obama?, I have been endlessly, tirelessly waking others, posting articles, getting groups together around the world to expose him for his megalomania and tyranny and the Scam that is destroying the globe, yet every damn time I talk about it you elude it. No matter what you say, people will need protection, tech, hospitals, whatever, to pay for it, who will fund for space and technology, fire departments, roads, bridges, you need a body of some sort to regulate all this. you seem to wish for the liberty to be free from taking responsibility , just like a militia will need money to equip and maintain itself, and protect the people, If you have people individually protect themselves, eventually they all combine to form a group of enforcement for good, There are sick people who like to harm others, and you need a body of good willed people to enforce that so they go around raping and killing. You truly have no idea what a human being is, I dont buy what you claim because you just sit there and say all the time I am market anarchist, take some fuckn action, put action into your belief, instead of talking. The only thing I can agree with is government needs to go, State does and BANKERS too, and realistically thats something that can happen now. if you have truly opened your eyes, you would know many people are born psychopathic and megalomaniac, they will always scheme and connive, and destroy, and maim and kill. I can guarantee you haven't grasped this concept, how do u fuk with such a factually and sound theory, every libertarian and liberty lover talks about it. you still fail to realize the problems we face with this establishment and the world is a psychological one greatly. blaming government for everything is narrow minded, you constantly are missing the other pieces to the puzzle. it's also us who sat by and did nothing till SHTF

Yes, CENTRAL PLANNING.

It all comes out here:

"...with necessary enforcement to tax you because you pay for public roads, fire department, and putting satellites in space."

and here...

"No matter what you say, people will need protection, tech, hospitals, whatever, to pay for it, who will fund for space and technology, fire departments, roads, bridges, you need a body of some sort to regulate all this."

Just because you aren't imaginative enough to figure out how to provide these things on a market doesn't mean it can't be done. You think you know best, and that the ends you decide upon justify your actions of theft (taxation). That's exactly what the government does. The difference is only a matter of degree, not in principle. You decide upon a different number of justifiable ends, but you still think it's okay to use force to get your way.

"If the limited government has conscience good willed people running the show..."

^Did you know that's exactly what the socialists say? The argument is true, but the premise is false. David Friedman wrote:

"In the ideal socialist state power will not attract power freaks. People who make decisions will show no slightest bias toward their own interests. There will be no way for a clever man to bend the institutions to serve his own ends. And the rivers will run uphill."

Now replace socialist with minarchist and the same point applies.

'The Anarchists are simply unterrified Jeffersonian Democrats. They believe that “the best government is that which governs least,” and that which governs least is no government at all.'
-Benjamin Tucker

Oh god you just keep putting

Oh god you just keep putting words in my mouth haha, and you keep attacking me cuz i support theft?, Lol Imaginative? Im an artist, Ill slaughter you with creativity, In my world war or theft doesnt exist, only good ppl with good hearts, but I know what reality is, dont even talk about imagination, you have no idea what worlds I dream of, and I actually take action with what I do, your just talk, the founding fathers created a great way to keep government in check, by arming us with weapons, u want peace, take the psychopaths out of the gene pool, that is something everyone i talk to agrees with, are u stupid?

True creation doesnt use labels or terms, you can use all these terms, ists, isms, there is always people who are wired to kill and oppress, and they need to be kept in check, I look towards a society where yes, people should be left alone and do WHAT THEY WANT TO, and if its there choice to be a voluntarists, go for it, but if you made a post about your beliefs and have everyone tell you their opinion I would have taken it seriously, but your just talk, spend so much time hating government, but the reality you have to work through politics, just like RP did, and hes still pure, all you do is dwell on hating government, its a joke to me

Be a little imaginative and ask yourself why we have a constitution, for common defense against foreign enemies and domestic. If you want to get shit done, you have to work through it, were playing their game and were winning

http://www.dailypaul.com/243230/how-big-is-the-leap-between-...

Someone made a post regarding anarchists, you should check it out

?

"Oh god you just keep putting words in my mouth haha"
^How is directly quoting you putting words in your mouth? If your own words offend you, maybe you should reconsider your position.

"Be a little imaginative and ask yourself why we have a constitution"
^No imagination is required, since the reasons have already been spelled out for us. It sounds great. Unfortunately, the precious constitution has either allowed all the tyrannies of today, or been powerless to prevent them.

Let's say, for argument's sake, that we could vote ourselves back to the constitution. What would that do? It would show that if the great majority wanted a certain government they could get it. But that's what we have today!! People don't want constitutional government, so we don't have it. So even if we could get back to it, it would not mean the constitution itself had constrained government. So even in the best case, the constitution is epiphenomenal to anything that actually happens. It doesn't DO anything.

'The Anarchists are simply unterrified Jeffersonian Democrats. They believe that “the best government is that which governs least,” and that which governs least is no government at all.'
-Benjamin Tucker

I never supported theft, you are throwing words in my mouth

and by the way if the constitution didnt do anything, you would be defintely be exterminated for talking like that by our current leadership, you better have some damn gratitude that we were armed as a nation with guns, that second amendment is a damn fine law to keep thugs in check, so they dont go out killing people like us for talking this way

Quote:

"necessary enforcement to tax you because you pay for public roads, fire department, and putting satellites in space, Then thats a working system."

^ You claim that using force to take from me (theft) is necessary for things like putting satellites into space. That's central planning. You think you know what's the best use of my money, and you'd be willing to take it.

I'm not putting words in your mouth, this is what you said. You said stealing from me is "a working system."

'The Anarchists are simply unterrified Jeffersonian Democrats. They believe that “the best government is that which governs least,” and that which governs least is no government at all.'
-Benjamin Tucker

Holy shit

When I say enforce, that doesnt mean to literally make you follow the law, And this applies to people who are fucking responsible, pay money to maintain and equipment our roads and bridges, and schools, because they are citizens who care to pay for their land that they live on, get a fucking job, learn what its like to work, if you want to bury your head in a hole while were taking action for the movement go ahead, I wont be the last to tell you that. your still a joke, all talk

So much anger.

You have to understand why I would "misinterpret" you. When you say "enforce" and "taxation" that, at least in the English language I use, means "use force to take." If you use the word "government" to refer to a voluntary association, then, well, that's using "government" to describe "anarchy"!!! Terrifying, lol.

I think an excellent way of taking action for the movement would be to start businesses that replace current state functions. People who are working in private security, arbitration, and education are doing a lot for the movement. Making the state irrelevant, piece at a time.

'The Anarchists are simply unterrified Jeffersonian Democrats. They believe that “the best government is that which governs least,” and that which governs least is no government at all.'
-Benjamin Tucker

Don't be complicit

Have the courage to call the tribe of subversive Nation Wreckers what they truly are.

Luke 3:38
Isaiah 43:3-5

Funny - I shared the same thought in response to another post

prior to reading this one. I don't know if anyone is connected enough or has enough clout to bring a militia together. Time to start thinking government overthrow. March right into D.C., capitol hill, whitehouse, pentagon and send them home.

Right.

We can make this as peaceful as POSSIBLE. Just remember, none of us want war or violence, we're not radicals or extremists we just want our country back...:/

I agree with one thing that is consistently popping up in this thread though - the importance of public opinion. Before such actions are taken, the public must be aware that we are not terrorists. The biggest possibility of failure is to allow the public to be propagandized and us to be isolated as a threat to domestic security. We must always maintain our patriotic image, similar to how the founding fathers went about it. I always thought about the possibility of if when we have enough people on board, why not start our own congress :P The founders did not take crap from some Parliament that did not care about the people. Our congress today is pretty similar to that.

In a world gone so wrong...

In a world gone so wrong, being radical is nothing to be ashamed about.

'Radical in the sense of being in total, root-and-branch opposition to the existing political system and to the State itself. Radical in the sense of having integrated intellectual opposition to the State with a gut hatred of its pervasive and organized system of crime and injustice. Radical in the sense of a deep commitment to the spirit of liberty and anti-statism that integrates reason and emotion, heart and soul.'
-Murray Rothbard
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard75.html

'The Anarchists are simply unterrified Jeffersonian Democrats. They believe that “the best government is that which governs least,” and that which governs least is no government at all.'
-Benjamin Tucker

Talking militias is war mongering...why not NULLIFICATION first?

However, if you want to start a militia the best way to do it is: first get an Oath Keeper as Sheriff. Then have the Sheriff organize the militia. That's... winning!

However, we should be focusing now on NULLIFICATION! This involves our state reps and the governor. We must pass laws at the state level that simply NULLIFY obamacare. Then once people get a good taste of nullification we can start encouraging the nullification of other unconstitutional Federal laws.

Do you happen to remember what happened to Texas...

when our State gov't considered kicking the TSA out of the airports? The Feds essentially said they would declair Texas a "no fly zone". You really think they are going to care about nullification? They began equiping IRS agents with assault weapons some time ago to take care of any problems with lack of compliance.

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.
Friedrich Nietzsche

I really wish the state

I really wish the state legislature called the Fed's bluff. There's no way the Federal Govt would have declared a no-fly zone over TX. TX shouldn't have bowed. That would have been the beginning of a revolution : (

I would have moved to Texas.

I would have moved to Texas.

'The Anarchists are simply unterrified Jeffersonian Democrats. They believe that “the best government is that which governs least,” and that which governs least is no government at all.'
-Benjamin Tucker

If Debra Medina won the TX GOP Primary for governor,

I would have moved to TX in a heart beat.

Yes, the first option should be nullification through the State

Legislatures.

Know of any that aren't spineless corrupt assholes that might get it done?

I didn't think so.

Looks like we're back to "militia."

And the ones doing the warmongering are the assholes trying to enslave the American People under the guise of "taxes."

We didn't start this fight.

But we will end it.

Yes, most politicians are

Yes, most politicians are spineless. But so are most people in general. I think you might be in for a nasty surprise if you think there's an army of Americans willing to take up arms in a direct fight against the largest military/security industrial complex the world has ever seen.