-9 votes

Which is worse, one trillion for health care or one trillion for war with iraq?

Although both are beyond the scope of government authorized by the constitution, I would rather my tax dollars be spent on health care for americans than to blow up buildings and bridges in other countries and then rebuild them again. A lot of people are upset with obamacare right now, but I would like them to think about something. The money spent on the iraq war was a much bigger waste than obamacare will be. If romney is elected he will start a war with Syria and then Iran and spend another trillion dollars on war. As far as I am concerned romney will be worse than obama if he is elected. Money spent on health care is still better than money spent on war. Ron Paul is our only hope but if he is not the nominee and our only choices are obama, romney, and Johnson then I say vote for Johnson.Do not let the issue of obamacare sway you to vote for romney. Romney must be defeated at all costs.




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Who are you responding to?

WAR (a JUST war anyway) is an action meant to protect you borders.

Imperialism is making false wars, often justified by false flag events, to control other people, simply for economic gain.

We haven't been involved in a WAR since at least WW2.

We have been CONSTANTLY involved in imperialism since WW2.

They both suck

But it is not just "your tax dollars" like medicare.
People like me will be coerced/pressured, by the government to buy a product from a private corporation. If I don't agree to enrich the insurers, they will tax me further.

Eventually hospitals will not even treat the uninsured, even if they can pay!!!
Also what protections are there to assure that a patient can REFUSE any treatment offered.

The wars are wrong and very wasteful.
But the liberty STOLEN from those of us who chose to pay out of pocket when we need the dentist or an office visit at the doctor is enormous.

Another VERY IMPORTANT THING.
The wars can be ended by electing the right president.
Obamacare will be with us forever unless liberty rules all government branches.

Perhaps you've missed a

Perhaps you've missed a common theme among the Liberty Movement. The lesser of two evils is not a choice.

"As the circle of light increases, so does the circumference of darkness around it." - Albert Einstein
"Now, more than ever, the choice between Obama and Romney will be which one do you want to ruin your country?" ~ Wead

Hey,I voted for Ron Paul and

Hey,I voted for Ron Paul and my primary was after he admitted he could not win. Come november our choices will be limited to the names on the ballot. I am just saying that obamacare may be a bad idea but it is not nearly as evil as all these wars. Dont get tricked into voting for romney because of this issue. Romney must be defeated.

Not true.

You can still write in Dr. Paul's name on the ballot if he ends up not being the nominee..

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You might be able to write

You might be able to write his name in or you might not depending on what state you live in. Even if you write it in I am not sure how it will be counted.

You're wrong!!!

Wars can be ended with a simple presidential election.
Obamacare will be next to impossible to end without override majorities in congress.

I will not vote Romney but your comparison is not very good.

obamacare can be repealed

obamacare can be repealed with a vote of 51 senators. All we need is a few more liberty minded senators and it can be overturned. I don't see it as next to impossible to overturn but I know that people killed in war can not be brought back to life.

No where in your post did you

No where in your post did you describe the bloodshed of war. you mention bridges and money but fail to note human life. what the fuck man? Get your priorities straight.

_____________________________________________

Watch this dry yet astonishing Dr. Robert Beck cancer treatment lecture on Google Video - search "Suppressed Medical Discovery" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkiX0jJJozk

good point. But doesn't this

good point. But doesn't this make the choice even more obvious. Obamacare may not be constitutional or a good idea but it is not nearly as evil as war. Bush was the worst president of all time and mitt romney has many of the same people that bush did for his advisors. I think romney is even worse than obama but I dont want either one to be president. I want Ron Paul. If I can't have Ron Paul then I take Gary Johnson. I will not vote for mitt romney.

Correction:

Bush was not the worst President of all time. There are far, far worse than him. Obama would be an example of one which is worse than Bush. So would Roosevelt and Lincoln too.

"As the circle of light increases, so does the circumference of darkness around it." - Albert Einstein
"Now, more than ever, the choice between Obama and Romney will be which one do you want to ruin your country?" ~ Wead

Bush deliberatly had the cia

Bush deliberatly had the cia lie to congress and to the american people so they would authorize the war with iraq so that he and cheney could get millions in kickbacks from halliburton after they were awarded billions of dollars in contracts. Bush started a war so he could make money from it. Bush should be tried for murder.

I'm not debating that.

I'm not debating that. Lincoln killed hundreds of thousands and shat on the Constitution. FDR shat on what was left of the Constitution and further paved the road to the end of freedom. There are more. Bush is just not the worst.

"As the circle of light increases, so does the circumference of darkness around it." - Albert Einstein
"Now, more than ever, the choice between Obama and Romney will be which one do you want to ruin your country?" ~ Wead

A Vote For...

Either Obama or Romney will get you both & worse...Only Ron Paul has the solution...olds

olds

Both suck

But definitely...no war is what I would choose as less evil

By the time gubberment gets done mucking up health care

it will be more like 10 trillion. They always low ball initial estimates.

Or 1 Trillion

digitized at no cost created out of thin air, created as a counterfit bogus compounding national debt to justify the immoral extorted theft called tax. The worst is 1 Trillion Debt issue Fiat money. The worst is the real owners of the private Federal Reserve Bank who are pulling a huge scam upon humanity. Human debt slaves.

sovereign

At this point I just think

At this point I just think that the sooner the US government goes completely bankrupt and falls and is no more the sooner we'll be to getting freedom back.

Both?

I'll give you a thought

I'll give you a thought experiment.

How much do you think it would cost for the government to open a "public sector" healthcare network of hospitals and clinics in each state on average? This would be like the post office; you can choose fedex or ups or dhl if you want.

Stay with me here.

Ok, let's say it costs 100 million to build each installation in a state on average. Let's build 10 of these in each state.

That's 1 billion dollars for each state, leading to 50 billion total for building the buildings.

Stay with me...

Ok, now let's pay all of our employees at each location a salary of 100k on average. Let's also have 1000 employees at each location in each state leading to 100k*1000 = 100 million dollars/year/location. Infrastructure upkeep and rent can likely be about the same amount: another 100 million/year/location. Since there are 10 locations, we now have 2 billion/year for salaries and rent.

That's 2 billion dollars for each state, leading to 100 billion total each year for the salaries and infrastructure maintenance.

Ok, so for all 50 states we just have:

50 billion initially to build
50 billion/year for salaries
50 billion/year for infrastructure/rent

-------

That's about 150 billion a year.

We spend well over 1000 billion on the military industrial complex.

That's 10 times my estimate, so it proves that the congress and president really don't care about our healthcare. They want taxes from us so that they can fight wars. If they really wanted to take care of everyone with an optional system, then it would be easy.

I don't agree with this philosophically, but I do use the post office sometimes. If there was no mandate, I would be ok with government trying to compete in the public sector (a la the post office) if the people wanted it and the representatives voted it in. Usually the government cannot compete very well however, and I would hope that people should realize that government isn't a very good mail carrier or a very good healthcare provider. But, perhaps there are times when a government option could serve a function.

The trouble is, we have this nebulous 16th amendment which now according to Robert's argument, can be used to force citizens to buy broccoli, or pay a tax if you don't want to.

In reality, if they cut the wars, we'd have well more than enough money to solve the problem and at the same time leave some degree of market freedom in the medical system.

if only it was that easy.

if only it was that easy. Your figures are 50 billion to start up and 2 billion a year to operate. Americans are currently spending about 2 trillion a year on health care. That is 2000 billion.

My figures are for all

My figures are for all states, so it is like I wrote, 50 billion + 100 billion/year. I agree that there are extra costs I haven't fully laid out (lab testing, surgeries, etc). But, it seems reasonable that we could get it under 1 trillion.

Americans spend 2 trillion on health care because of inflation and collusion between government and insurance companies.

Governments spend money on bailouts and war.

Good point.

Good point.

Two more choices

c) prescription drug giveaway that no one talks about that I have seen is a 9-16 trillion liability but no one talks about because a white guy with (R) after his name passed it
d) false choice, they all suck

I'll choose d but am tempted to choose c over Obamacare. Forcing others to spend their money, while appalling, is better than the government giving it away.

Either Way

a lot of people are going to die.

"Hell is empty, and all the devils are here" (Shakespeare)
RP 2012~ Intellectual Revolution.

That's wrong amc1953

The US government has spent billions on the Iraq and Afghan wars killing thousands of people including US troops and innocent civilians over the last ten years. We are not sure of the numbers exactly but the total must be around 100,000 or more. That is a drop in the bucket compared to the number of people the "healthcare" industry kills EVERY YEAR. So you need to get your head out of the clouds or out of your rectum which ever it is.

Sorry for the rectum comment but you "healthcare" people need to wake up.

the usa is bankrupt and can

the usa is bankrupt and can not afford obamacare, but health care is not evil. Everyone needs access to health care when they get sick. If health care providers are murderers then how can you support Ron Paul since he is a doctor. Are you saying that Ron Paul is a murderer?

Oh, and by the way

I do not support Ron Paul as a doctor but for his political views. And I don't agree with him 100% on those either. And I would not take my wife to him to deliver a baby because we have our children at home. WOW! How crazy is that? I don't get my kids vaccinated. WOW! How crazy is that? I NEVER go to the doctor when I am sick. WOW! How crazy is that?

Doctors should have a limited role in our lives but some of you make them your gods which is something I refuse to do.

I am totally in favor of you

I am totally in favor of you having the freedom to raise your children any way you want. I guess you are going to home school your children. There is nothing wrong with that. I hope no one in your family breaks a bone or gets in a car accident.

Actually I do

home school my children. Or did and they all scored way higher on any standardized tests than there public schooled counterparts. And now because of there superior work ethic they make there fellow employees look bad. I am very proud of how they turned out. Imagine that seeing that I am a high school dropout.

As far as broken bones and such I am not saying that there is not a place for doctors in a basic function but not to control our lives. So when my daughter cut her leg open I stitched it up myself. I could have paid a doctor to do it but why? I could set a broken bone also if need be so that is medical attention without a "doctor". When we get sick we heal without a doctor. You know we, our bodies, were designed to heal. We are not cars or something man made that requires man to repair on a daily basis. As a matter of fact just last month I broke one of my ribs and I am glad to say that aside from a little tightness that needs to be stretched out my rib is doing fine.

If you want to go to the doctor for every sniff or sniffle that is your choice. But when you do you run the very real risk of being further injured or killed by incompetence, negligence or accident. I am not lying when I say that the medical industry is the number one cause of death in this country. So you pick your poison and I will pick mine.