24 votes

Re Lawsuit Naysayers

Rather than curse the [perceived] darkness it is better to light a candle.

I would whole heartedly support the lawsuits by zsh-ninja, danton, americasos, FBI-Exposer over Gilbert’s lawsuit, except for one problem. None of these chronic whiners has actually brought any lawsuit in any state. Show me their alternative lawsuit(s). Any one of these do-nothing naysayers can bring their own lawsuit. Any one of them can find another lawyer. If they do not agree with the lawsuit, then they should get off their butts and bring their own lawsuit handled in the way they prefer. Every single one of these ceaseless lawsuit crybabies ought to already be a delegate. Are they? They can bring their own lawsuits. Nothing is stopping them.

To all these ceaseless obstructionist faultfinders I say “Show Me Your Lawsuit.” Until they actually start doing something and providing actual alternatives, I give zero credence to their never-ending one issue focused bellyaching on cursing the existing lawsuit.

Perpetually whining without alternative action does nothing productive. They complain they don’t like the strategy; they don’t like this lawyer; they don’t like the personalities; they don’t like the venue; they provide innuendo and speculation; they don’t like how they talk; they don’t like that one case he handled 3 years ago or 7 years ago or 15 years ago; or they don’t like some comment made two years ago or five years ago; they don’t like that he actually bucks the system with challenging cases; Someone even falsely claimed he was a big donor to the Democratic Party (FEC records indicate he has not been a donor to either party. Do not confuse with another attorney named Richard Gilbert in San Francisco – a completely separate and unrelated individual.) Their comments are nearly universally focused on a single issue – disparaging the lawsuit. Some of them have posted scores and even hundreds of comments on nothing but the lawsuit. No other topic is of any concern at all enough to be worth a comment by these prolific posters. It makes one logically question the motives. Do some of them have ulterior motives? Because these one issue whiners don’t seem to have much concern about any other issue at all enough to comment.

But how does any of this whining do anything to protect the delegates that have been, are being and will be disqualified? How does the whining protect the delegates that the various Republican parties are refusing and have refused to certify to the national convention? How does this whining do anything regarding the states that have already mandated and others that will mandate a sworn oath of loyalty to Romney in order to be seated at the national convention? The list of ongoing shenanigans just keeps growing. The lawsuit can undo the oath of loyalty mandates, can force state chairman to certify properly elected delegates, and undo the disqualifications of RP delegates that have already occurred in addition to placing an injunction against other similar shenanigans from being rolled out. If the lawsuit is dismissed, then you are simply back to the present status quo of the Republican Party elite continuing to use intimidation, refusing to certify properly elected delegates, breaking rules and making up requirements in order to eliminate anyone suspected of being a Ron Paul delegate – the status quo some naysayers seem to want.

This case by Richard Gilbert is no small undertaking. With separate Republican Parties and chairmen in each state plus the RNC, this case is a ton of work just on the procedural process not to mention costly, and that is before you even get to the substantive issues of intimidation, refusal of certification, refusal to follow bylaws, making up loyalty oaths to a particular candidate and other ongoing shenanigans. The case exposes the intimidation, antics, blatant failure to follow rules, and violations of law. Any lawyer that brings such a case will end up square in the target sights of Republican Party elite, Romney faction bigwigs, and neocon power elite. The lawyer will be subject to harassment, intimidation tactics, blacklisting, defamation attempts, complaints, rumor mongering, speculation and innuendo. Despite all this, this lawyer has undertaken the great work load and subsequent negative consequences all for free - Not charging a penny. I do not care if he is Johnny Cochran, Jerry Spence, Clarence Darrow, and F. Lee Bailey all rolled into one or whether he is the most mediocre of lawyers to walk the planet. At least he is doing something (and doing it free) and that by itself is more than you can say for any other lawyer. I think he deserves gratitude for his efforts rather than the spite and condemnation that some have been spewing forth.

The naysayers can light their own lawsuits instead of cursing the one that actually is doing something.

“Show me Your lawsuit.”




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i think there are at least 1 or 2

i think there are at least 1 or 2 posters here who know they are participating in character assassinations, spreading rumors/suggestions against lawsuit.

seems to be a full time job, yet, of all the energy put into it, i haven't seen AN OUNCE of evidence to suggest the criticism is warranted.

Naysayers,Trolls, and Whiners

Are the "labels" that Gilbert & Co have instructed their minions to use if a different opinion" is voiced here on DP.

Nobody is telling you what to do.

If my opinion is contrary to yours, that's what this website is all about.
FACTS
DISCUSSION

I certainly never told anyone what to do.
And I will support Dr Paul in my own way.
And it won't be a silly lawsuit from a silly attorney.

"If someone jumps off a roof, will you also"?
Think about it people...Think.

"Beyond the blackened skyline, beyond the smoky rain, dreams never turned to ashes up until.........
...Everything CHANGED !!

sharkhearted's picture

Who is asking you to jump off a roof??

Think about it, Danton....Think.

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

"No other topic is of any

"No other topic is of any concern at all enough to be worth a comment by these prolific posters"....says AzJoe..

Arizona Joe, or as KING RICHARD would describe you:
.........."an anonymous poster".................
(Richard actually used my "real name" in his responses and threatened to sue me and others...sounds really credible yes?)

KING RICHARD...off to the Crusades everyone...follow me!

Since you've described me and others as "prolific posters" I will say Thank You for the compliment.
And since you've accused me of "posting" on this and only this topic, I must encourage you to stop with the propaganda.
It's simply not true.
And furthermore: READ some of the posts without an emotionally-charged "Over-reaction", as the points are entirely correct.
And one more thing Joe: Liberty is EVER VIGILANT.

"Beyond the blackened skyline, beyond the smoky rain, dreams never turned to ashes up until.........
...Everything CHANGED !!

swallowing camels

and gaggin on gnats
they best find somethin else to chew on
just sayin

LOve the R3volution

Well come and well said.

My due diligence finds agreement with your post. Long live the r3VOLution!!

Thanx,

Jason

You can't get clean in a dirty bathtub.

Great post

Thanks AZJoe. Couldn't agree more.

I'm glad to see others agreeing with this

Bumping!

betty

100%

agree, while Gilbert and co are actually trying to do something about corruption, we got these people sitting at home on a computer doing absolutely nothing but critiquing what others are doing.

And How Do You Know All This?

This computer allowed me to "Max-Out" to the MoneyBombs.
Since you're so clever: How much has Gilbert-Grape contributed?

This computer has also allowed me to distribute DVDs door-to-door and face-to-face to people who may/may not know about Ron Paul.

It's allowed me to purchase lawn signs...bumper stickers,SLIM JIM BROCHURES that I include with my DVDs..no charge...my cost.
DVDs: My cost..Time spent: My Time

It's allowed me to Purchase SUPER BROCHURES and SPONSOR Congressional/Voting Districts in States I don't live in.....

It's allowed me to LOCATE ALL the Polling Places/Locations in my county and surrounding counties...and spend Primary Dy going to them and the surrounding counties..
(I was "informed" I couldn't shoot video..I "informed" them without being nasty, snide, rude or condescending..like Richard has been.)
My gas money....My car's wear & tear...My time spent.

I've spent money on lawyers...years ago, many times, lots of money.
I've contacted AG in my state and networked with them and my community.
I've been threatened and had to either talk things out, or show someone the door..the easy way or the hard way..their choice.
...Yes...All this ....and much more.

And you dare to judge me?...I don't think so.

"Beyond the blackened skyline, beyond the smoky rain, dreams never turned to ashes up until.........
...Everything CHANGED !!

GoodSamaritan's picture

You're doing all the wrong things for Ron Paul

You got voted down because you're only supposed to support this lawsuit without questioning it or the attorney behind it.

Ron Paul - Honorary Founding Father

It's a Free Country

And if you don't stand for something....
....You'll fall for everything.

Including a BOGUS LAWSUIT.

Glad to see ya Sam.
It's hard to keep track of Richard's trolls.
They change screen names so often.
The truth really frightens them.

"Beyond the blackened skyline, beyond the smoky rain, dreams never turned to ashes up until.........
...Everything CHANGED !!

Let me get this straight

You say if I do not support some lawyers law suit and If I do not bring a lawsuit of my own, you say I got to shut up.

So only lawsuits will allow me to be critical of the Judiciary, they are a huge part of the problem you think there is legal remedy ha.

One huge joke. BAH

sovereign

Lawyers only want one thing....

....your money. How much do these "lawyers" want from you to further their objectives?

That's the substance of the supposed-going-nowhere lawsuit.

sharkhearted's picture

Bravo. WELL SAID!

I could not agree more. Thanks for this post.

The voice of reason in a sea of whine...

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

Thank you AZ Joe! In fact, thank you again and again!

I really appreciated seeing your post! There is nothing, and I mean NOTHING more ineffective than people who would rather complain than being proactive. I totally agree with your post. We ought to be GRATEFUL for this attorney's time. I'm sure this lawsuit is a huge pain in the fanny and if somebody out there thinks that they can do it better than DO IT!!! And stop wasting everybody's time complaining.

As far as Ron Paul goes, I think he thinks that his supporters are responsible for posing a lawsuit and that is what is happening.

betty

Take a copy

Of this lawsuit to your own attorney and have them look at it. Put some money up into it then you have some other opinion. Just sayin. Instead if whining, take action if you have doubts.

GoodSamaritan's picture

I feel neglected

You failed to include me in your list of "whiners" - those people who have voiced legitimate concerns over the propriety of this lawsuit.

I don't need to have experience as a commander of troops (although I do) in order to render a valid opinion on the proper course of action in a tactical engagement. Implying that there is no room for discussion unless an alternate course of legal action is proffered is just an attempt to shut down all but the cheerleaders who naively think this case couldn't possibly do any harm.

Considering the far-reaching and long-term potential consequences of this lawsuit to the entire Liberty Movement - including the possible disenfranchisement of all delegates to the RNC who support Ron Paul - it is prudent to examine what all sides have to say about it.

So, quit whining.

Ron Paul - Honorary Founding Father

I don't get it

I read your post: http://www.dailypaul.com/241310/who-to-believe-doug-wead-or-... and don't understand why you feel that only disagreeing with the suit is right. Is there no suggestion for an alternative?

Thanx,

Jason

You can't get clean in a dirty bathtub.

GoodSamaritan's picture

My implied suggestion

was to have a lawsuit regarding the intimidation, rule-breaking, etc., but minus the binding issue. That one element decided against us could absolutely destroy whatever chance we have of getting Ron Paul elected.

Just the fact that Mr. Gilbert included binding is enough reason for me to seriously question his judgment and motives.

Ron Paul - Honorary Founding Father

I can always tell

The kids from the adults in this room. +1 for you Good Sam. Cheers

Grand Opening! www.AmmoPit.com Ammunition by and for Liberty Lovers

Your Name

...fits you well. Thank you for jumping in and I agree 100%. If you can't take the law suit to an attorney, take it to anyone in your family who has hired an attorney. Get advice.

Get "wise counsel" used to mean get an attorney. Now days it also means get *wise counsel* to see if your counsel is wise.

fonta

optimystic's picture

You reflect my opinion

VERY WELL, AZ Joe. Well said. Thank you.

To the whiners, if you're not part of a solution, you are indeed part of the problem!

robot999's picture

Exactly!

And I'll go a step further. IMO, some of these TROLLS are probably agents of some sort - being paid to downplay this lawsuit.

Actions do indeed speak louder than words!

"Government is the entertainment division of the military-industrial complex". - Frank Zappa

What does electionfraudremedy . com have to do with the lawsuit?

"this lawyer has undertaken the great work load and subsequent negative consequences all for free - Not charging a penny."

If that is indeed true why is "Lawyers for Ron Paul" directing Delegates to election fraud remedy . com & subjecting them to a $49.95 monthly membership? And also subjecting them to a "free membership" that you must agree to there terms of agreement.

There are still costs

He's not charging a fee but he's not going to bankrupt himself with the costs associated with filing a suit. Hopefully a good judgement mitigates the costs.

Thanx,

Jason

You can't get clean in a dirty bathtub.

except the lawsuit is not asking that costs be paid.

.

SequoiaTrees4RonPaul

robot999's picture

I didn't

pay a penny. Thanks for YOUR opinion. Are you yourself a national delegate or alternate? If not, then why don't you yourself and the other distractors go out and get on Central Committees and other republican offices and work on the Liberty movement that way. Some of us will go a different route, and maybe TOGETHER we can win?

United we stand right Miguel?

"Government is the entertainment division of the military-industrial complex". - Frank Zappa

I haven't info on

I haven't info on electionfraudraudremedy.com and am not interested in it and not interested in joing it. Plaintiffs in the lawsuit are NOT required to join it or required to join the "free membership."

If you are a plaintiff and have been forced to do so, I suggest you immediately report it to the California bar as such a requirement by a lawyer to a client would be a violation of the rules of professional conduct for attorneys. You can report back the progress.

I do support a lawsuit. It need not be this lawsuit, but where are the others? If there is another, that would be great - some alternatives. Maybe somebody I like better. Maybe somebody I can have more faith in. However, there is not another and time is of the essence. The national convention is in less than two months. Quite frankly, as a practical matter, it is probably too late for any new lawsuits to be heard in time.

Delegates are being harmed. They are being excluded or forced to swear loyalty to a specific candidate. Too many have been excluded. More likely will.

If I am a duly elected delegate and am barred from the national convention because the chairman improperly refuses to certify me, am I to just do nothing? Should I sit on my hands and allow myself to be excluded? Do you recommend going to the convention with the hoping chance the RNC will suddenly change their mind and listen to my appeal and let me in the doors to a seat? Do you recommend trying to use violence to force ourselves in? That would be catastrophic and would not benefit President Paul.

At this point a lawsuit would be my only feasible chance to overcome the chairman's refusal to certify me. So it is either try or give up being a delegate.

Yes Gilbert may come across at times as abrasive or arrogant or a pain in the neck or egotistical - not uncommon traits among experienced trial lawyers. I dont care about personality. We can each find fault in any personality and espeically our own if we objectively look carefully enough.

Quite frankly, if I am a delgate that has been excluded it is my choice to be a part of the lawsuit or not and none of the naysayers have provided any realistically feasible alternative to get a seat at the RNC convention. So it is either take a shot with gilbert or nothing at all.

If you are a Ron Paul delegate and have been excluded and dont want to pursue a legal challenge - that is your perfectly legitimate choice. If I or others are not content to be excluded and want to pursue a legal challenge to be able to be seated, that is our perfectly legitimate choice. And bad mouthing the lawsuit and lawyer does not help the chances.

Let it not be said that we did nothing.-Ron Paul
Stand up for what you believe in, even if you stand alone.-Sophia Magdalena Scholl

First you get on a Central Committee

The plan from the beginning was to get on a Central Committee, as this is where the delegates come from, or a central committee recommends, and still you would have to belong to the party and sign the STATE papers, a 470, that you will not commit fraud, an Oath to your party, and to the US Constitution.

People who showed up at the conventions, to take advantage of the open seats and lack of seated Republicans, THE SEATS WE SHOULD HAVE TAKEN, should sign the same papers as committee members. It's YOUR party, why not follow YOUR rules?

If you were a PENDING DELEGATE, and the committee refused to VET you, as that is what committees do, you should take it to your state, not the federal government, to a judge who is not planning on using the constitution as a guideline, but precents that are new.

I am a delegate, I am a Republican, I signed the papers when I qualified for ballot access, and I won by default.

What you guys are doing is destroying the states contracts with parties to give it to the federal government to control, and you are wanting federal marshalls to protect you, because you are in fear of legitimately seated delegates? Willing a convention to be occupied with armed marshalls because you FEAR the party YOU joined by choice?

Who really is the criminal, as Mutany is criminal.

As far as I'm concerned, if you are not seated on a committee, which enables you to be a delegate, or a committee member recommended you, you're breaking the law of your state. If you HATE the GOP, you have no business being a GOP delegate. And if you want a Federal Judge to rule over the states and have a public convention occupied with armed force for YOUR protection, you don't understand what Ron Paul was saying in the first place.