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Would You Rather Save The GOP Or Cripple It?

Ron Paul is a savant when it comes to uniting those of different backgrounds, politics, and beliefs. Therefore, it is no surprise that many of us have different attitudes toward the GOP. I would like to know what the general sentiment of DP'ers is toward the GOP. Do you want to save it, reform it and ultimately recreate the GOP to be more liberty minded and conservative, or, do you want to destroy it from within for proving itself to be anything but liberty minded and conservative?



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It needs to be saved from itself

To damage it would be to allow Obama or another to continue the damage to our country that is the hallmark of his presidency.

You must have at least 2 parties to balance the system.

We need to hope that their hard headed approach will not cause them to create so much damage that it cannot be saved. They need to be reminded that they are American's before they are republicans. The Dems need this reminder too.

Destroy is a given from some perspective.

To "save" the GOP means destroying it for the purposes of those who control it now.

Be brave, be brave, the Myan pilot needs no aeroplane.

That depends on the GOP.

All present GOP establishment must go. Simple as that.

Third Party - Existing Or Newly Created

Corporations and special interests have too much power in the other two parties. I doubt third party will change history or political process and access, but at least we could try.

Kathleen Gee's picture

How does this thread look to Santorum & Romney delegates?

The Ron Paul campaign is trying to convince Santorum and Romney delegates in Tampa that he deserves their vote. Why would unenlightened non-RP delegates vote for him in a million years if they thought our purpose is to destroy the party they've been active in for (possibly) decades?

This is NOT helpful to the campaign to sway delegates into the Ron Paul camp. In fact, it's the kind of thing that Romneybots are going to use against us to prove we're out to get Obama elected.

"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid." - Ronald Reagan

Public Relations Consulting

The thread is neutral

if the wording sounds biased, my apologies.

Some good follow up questions might be:

1) Has anyone in all human history achieved victory of the elite using the tools they created (voting and lobbying)?

2) If RP said by "trade" and not "war" communism was subdued in Vietnam

--- Are we "trading" when we want to replace all -or- are we obliterating the competition (casting them out)?

--- Is voting and lobbying an act of war?

--- Is war a market tool available to the consumer -- if Mises says "consumer-sovereignty" over "owner-sovereignty" and if "war" is not a tool available to the consumer then what is his tool?

--- War is NOT a market tool -- it is a non-market tool. Is voting and lobbying a market tool?

Answer to "what is a market tool": 1) Tradeable Instruments and 2) 100% Consumptive-Choice with 0% Inflationary Costs

A slight Tangent

A free-society begins with

1a) 0% Barrier to Entry Multi-Optional Trade Instrument Market

-or-

1b) Interest-Free Public Money (held in Monopoly position)

-and-

2) 100% Free-Consumptive-Choice over all Consumer-Goods Markets

I know Rothbardians wince at the notion of Interest-Free Pubic Money and I do too -- however it is conceiveable that such a system could exist, that the currency could be pegged (without the authority to adjust it) to some % X of GDP (artificial scarcity that adjusts based on real "demand, potential, and earnings").

If we went free-market any instrument zero regulation currency system there would be a lot of people who would lose their shirt, then lobby to have their shirts returned -- To have such a system you have to be truly serious to let people suffer in mass and there's been no such society like this in all human history (save on a really small scale).

I think (and so does RP and Mises) that a really wise transitionary society must exist first.

However, if people diversify their holdings (the assets they hold to trade in) then risk should be equal to or less than 1 and not much higher.

Honestly?

I'd rather watch it burn... metaphorically, of course.

NOTE: I am not advocating violence in any way. The content of the post is for intellectual, theoretical, and philosophical discussion. FEDS, please don't come to my house.

Choose to ignore it and have

other parties just as viable. In other words - end the two party system.

The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.
Ron Paul - The Revolution

Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms. Ron Paul

much smarter to reform gop

as long as the gop exists it will draw votes. If the gop alone is weakened, the democratic party would remain. If you tried to start a new freedom party (or take over the libertarian party) it would be a much harder undertaking and would still leave the gop to draw some of the votes ... or form a majority coalition with the dems to oppose liberty and continue to expand government (government IS the opposite of freedom, we need to keep that straight). So, logically we should wish the two party system remains...with liberty being the guiding light of one of the two parties.

Bill of Rights /Amendment X: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Do you need a politician or judge to "interpret" those 28

Since You're Asking

I want ALL the candidates from ALL the parties to be liberty candidates.

I think that means we need most of the voters, and certainly most of the activists and lobbyists to be on our side.

I'm a Libertarian, and quite happy to be welcomed instead of ostracized. I'm in California, which means the GOP has some advantages, but not as many as they may in other states, over alternative parties.

Can you imagine what would happen if all the "independents" and "decline to states" decided to register as Libertarians in just one state? Would that help change the GOP? Would it help change the Democrats?

I believe we have to work where we know we can make a difference, and where we can HAVE FUN! Burnout is the enemy of activism.

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

We are going to take over all top positions in our States

THen, we are going to all be GOP delegates...each and every one of us. Then we are going to change the voting rules on how elections are won.

GOP delegates at State Conventions elect. We elect our state Senators and state congressman and state Governor.

That is our power.

That is our future

That is how liberty wins.

Treg

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

The Ron Paul Way

Good for you. Uplifting. Hold your ground and keep spreading the word. Especially right now.

fonta

If you want the status quo, then keep the GOP

but if you want to shake up the political world, withdraw any support for this group of thugs.

The federal government is in the terminal stage anyway, so it really only matters on a State and local level.

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.

Kathleen Gee's picture

The GOP has legal benefits that no 3rd party does.

The GOP and the Dems have written advantages into the laws in most states, giving the 2 "major" parties a free pass when it comes to getting on the ballot, subsidizing conventions, etc. Even on a national level, the taxpayers are footing the bill for the two conventions.

We need the legal shell of the GOP. It's not the entity that is corrupt, it is some of the people running it. Legally, the GOP is a piece of paper. It can't do anything on its own. We replace the people, and we have a whole new organization, PLUS the legal advantages that the Dems have.

Chucking the GOP in the garbage is a bad, bad idea.

"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid." - Ronald Reagan

Public Relations Consulting

Easier to reform the GOP

By choosing to bring the Republican party back to its roots we can take advantage of a national platform that already exists, instead of having to form our own, after attempting to destroy the GOP.

Ron Paul 2016

SAVE the Republican Party

We need all the sheep we can get!

His name is Edward Snowden

What is Capitalism?
http://youtu.be/yNF09pUPypw

BOTH PARTIES ARE BOUGHT AND PAID FOR.

I like to get rid of both parties.But for God's sake,don't get rid of one and leave the other.especially don't leave the democrats in tact.

Some see things as they are and say why,but i dream things that never were and say why not. Robert F. Kennedy

I would love to have a legitimate

competition between many parties, but people are so set on voting either red or blue.. so saving the GOP may be the more viable option. Honestly, I would love to see the GOP reformed and all of the neo cons kicked out into their own party. It would be called the Authoritarian party.

third party means more corruption

A new party that is a legitimate threat may be co-opted, and certainly most of the people who gravitate towards positions of power will be about as corrupt as people in the other two parties. People love the idea of a third party because it's like we're waging war on the other parties and will officially "defeat" them. The problems we face include the design of the system that promotes corruption (beyond the GOP itself) and the Socialist mindset of the American people. RP knows this, and it's why he is trying to educate people rather than just rally them, and why he is trying to change the GOP and not defeat them.

you are already co-opted

and hence wanting to break away from the two parties set by estab. estab says you should only belong to one of these 2. and you do exactly what they tell you.

when you are co-opted, you are a detriment.

jj

A viable third party however large

would be easier to co-opt back.

Since we are the majority in the GOP

Maybe this is a question you should ask the minority leadership.

dnc is strong, so it doesn't matter what you think of gop.

estab is still well alive, it doesn't matter gop or dnc. naming is fairly irrelevant. so why are you ignoring this fact? because it is convenient to go along with the status quo of a two party system that locks out everythingelse, especially the true libertarian spirit?

jj

kid's way of thinking

likely all is going to consolidate toward progressivism as economy slowly degrades, human nature dictates rest of the population fighting over a shrinking pie. your best solution is to ignore childish thinking of soap drama over whether gop pays attention to you but rather spread the message any way you can, politics in the gop being one of them. drama is naught.

It is already crippled.

I want to save it! By bringing it back to it's roots. I already see it happening here. IMO - If it is not happening in your area, and you want it to, you need to get more involved.

I would rather

I would rather do this:

http://www.dailypaul.com/242346/we-cant-be-the-ones-to-give-...

If this is done we still have a good chance!

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

I'd Rather

see Obama re-elected than allow Romney in for 8 years without being challenged by the GOP. Let Obama really screw things up so a Republican will be guaranteed the win in 2016 when Rand is the nominee. We just have to take over offices at the local level between now and then so that the GOP can't steal the election again, like they did this time.

The GOP clearly

needs to be torn down before we can rebuild it . People that think we can change this party or bring them our way with the current crop that makes up the GOP are complete fools. If Paul doesn't get the nomination BURN IT TO THE GROUND. Force a loss on them that they can never recover from WITHOUT adopting our complete platform! A loss that makes them totally irrelevant afterwards. This is the ONLY way we can reform this party.
When your trying to cure cancer you don't try and make friends with the cancer. You don't try and talk to the cancer and convince the caner you are its friend! YOU KILL THE CANCER and if you leave one little spec of the cancer intact it always comes back a even bigger than before.
That's what your battling with folks, not a system, not a political party.... CANCER and the best way to get rid of cancer is aggressive treatments to KILL it.
Ron Paul, or let them fall flat on their faces. Their whole goal has been to get Pauls support to align themselves with the establishment GOP so they have a chance at winning. Anybody that votes for Mitt Romney is a traitor to this country and a traitor to all the hard work this movement has put forward in the last 5 years. There is no inbetween here. You will either be part of the solution or you will cave in and continue to fertilise the problem thinking your gonna change these sick individuals minds about something.
Don't be the player that gets played.... Force your hand like they do theirs and lets see who comes out on top ! They are NOTHING without our support.... NOTHING...and they know this or Paul and his support would have already been ousted from the convention. NOTHING without us....that's what they are, do not get fooled.....

"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."
Samuel Adams

Paul is ALMOST ousted....they will go down in flames...

I think Romney could beat O but Gary Johnson will take away Romney's votes and well he should. Republicans are stubborn and stupid. They refuse to get it that we aren't going for this goon the way so many did with McCain.

SequoiaTrees4RonPaul