2 votes

Why can't " ordinary" citizens form their own Grand Juries?

If the answer is- we can but prosecutors don't have to act on it, this is an area where public servants should be sacked for not serving their masters.

9/11, fast and furious, the list is endless. Indict the bastards, or be shat-canned.

If one crooked cop can swear an oath that gets me an all expense trip to the greybar hotel, a jury of twelve should at least be able to demand a trial.

Thoughts?



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Citizens Grand Juries :

In my experience a properly founded Investigative Jury scares the pants of Officials. Most Citizen Juries and Courts are just like minded people jumping up and down with no basis in establishment.

There are procedures to follow. Parliamentarian for starts. Ad Hoc Committee to Public Notice of Intent and Purpose. Meetings, appointments or election of Officers, Minute Records/Protocols. All that.

Scenario – People are upset because the County Sheriff has no Oath of Office on file. The only County Government Officer for whom a proper Bond can be ascertained is the Treasurer. Public inquires are rudely rebuffed.

Reason for Investigative Jury to determine the County Government is following State guidelines and procedures.

The Sheriff calls Grand Jury Panels unless a vested interest or other conflict can be shown. The Sheriff is under investigation as well as being vested because his pay and retirement come from the entity under investigation. Next comes the County Coroner, who calls the Pool if the Sheriff is disqualified. If the Coroner is disqualified ( for the same reasons ) next come three Elisors of the County appointed by the Court to call the Pool. The County Prosecutor is likewise disqualified from acting as an agent or employee of the entity under investigation.

Is the community without recourse? No, they may form their own Court and Jury for certain purposes. If three Elisors can be found and commit to sign any grievances developed by investigation, a Pool may be called from volunteers within the community. Those with an interest in legitimacy of governing authorities which effect their lives.

If a Jury is Assembled they should appoint an individual to act as Private Attorney General on behalf of the People to direct collection of testimony and evidence and put into proper form.

Once the evidence had been collected showing defects in government administration, a Notice and Opportunity to Correct Status should be served on those Officers in violation. If no corrective action is forthcoming a complaint to the Secretary of States Office should get their Charter pulled for non-compliance with State Regulation.

Good luck.

The Constitution is a Trust : http://www.The-Legacy.Info

You would have to understand what a grand jury is

The idea of a grand jury started in 1215 with the Magna Carta. What happened was all the land lords who swore an oath of allegiance to the crown of England, King John II, became angry at the king for several and different reasons. All the barons then banded together gathering their armies from their lands and marched against the crown.

Once they cornered and defeated the king's army, they then forced King John II to sign the Magna Carta or be killed. In the Magna Carta the barons reserved the right to override the king again if need be but without combat. This is the purpose of the Grand Jury.

Article 61 of the Magna Carta establishes a Grand Jury (beware wall of text)

61. Inasmuch as for the sake of God, and for the bettering of our realm, and for the more ready healing of the discord which has arisen between us and our barons, we have made all these aforesaid concessions,--wishing them to enjoy for ever entire and firm stability, we make and grant to them the following security: that the barons, namely, may elect at their pleasure twenty five barons from the realm, who ought, with all their strength, to observe, maintain and cause to be observed, the peace and privileges which we have granted to them and confirmed by this our present charter. In such wise, namely, that if we, our justice, or our bailiffs, or any one of our servants shall have transgressed against any one in any respect, or shall have broken some one of the articles of peace or security, and our transgression shall have been shown to four barons of the aforesaid twenty five: those four barons shall come to us, or, if we are abroad, to our justice, showing to us our error; and they shall ask us to cause that error to be amended without delay. And if we do not amend that error, or, we being abroad, if our justice do not amend it within a term of forty days from the time when it was shown to us or, we being abroad, to our justice: the aforesaid four barons shall refer the matter to the remainder of the twenty five barons, and those twenty five barons, with the whole land in common, shall distrain and oppress us in every way in their power,--namely, by taking our castles, lands and possessions, and in every other way that they can, until amends shall have been made according to their judgment. Saving the persons of ourselves, our queen and our children. And when amends shall have been made they shall be in accord with us as they had been previously. And whoever of the land wishes to do so, shall swear that in carrying out all the aforesaid measures he will obey the mandates of the aforesaid twenty five barons, and that, with them, he will oppress us to the extent of his power. And, to any one who wishes to do so, we publicly and freely give permission to swear; and we will never prevent any one from swearing. Moreover, all those in the land who shall be unwilling, themselves and of their own accord, to swear to the twenty five barons as to distraining and oppressing us with them: such ones we shall make to swear by our mandate, as has been said. And if any one of the twenty five barons shall die, or leave the country, or in any other way be prevented from carrying out the aforesaid measures,--the remainder of the aforesaid twenty five barons shall choose another in his place, according to their judgment, who shall be sworn in the same way as the others. Moreover, in all things entrusted to those twenty five barons to be carried out, if those twenty five shall be present and chance to disagree among themselves with regard to some matter, or if some of them, having been summoned, shall be unwilling or unable to be present: that which the majority of those present shall decide or decree shall be considered binding and valid, just as if all the twenty five had consented to it. And the aforesaid twenty five shall swear that they will faithfully observe all the foregoing, and will cause them to be observed to the extent of their power. And we shall obtain nothing from any one, either through ourselves or through another, by which any of those concessions and liberties may be revoked or diminished. And if any such thing shall have been obtained, it shall be vain and invalid, and we shall never make use of it either through ourselves or through another.

If you call a dog a cat, and the dog then acts like a cat, and the dog may even think that it is a cat, still does not make the dog a cat. The dog is a dog by its construction, and a cat is a cat. The same for a Grand Jury, for it to be a Grand Jury it must be the same in its construction. I believe all the grand juries that exist in the United States consist of less than 25 members and are then considered advisory juries, not grand juries. While advisory juries still have political weight, they are not binding in anyway.

I know they are supposed to have one

If they charge us with a felony, they usually hand pick rubber-stamping sheep. and if when Ordinary citizens decide to form one and recommend prosecution, they ignore us, it's bunk, yes

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I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility to every form of tyranny over the mind of man.

It is a must to do a study of written law via

The Organic Laws of the United States of America found in the United States code and there in you find true answers not rhetoric. If common sense ruled, it would govern unwritten law not written law. Everyone should know by now neither the Congress nor the President of the United States are ruled by common sense.
The Organic Laws of the United States of America, which is precedent law for all the laws of the United States of America, appears in volume one of the United States Code published every six years by the Government Printing Office for the United States House of Representatives
Written law is bound to the Organic Laws of the United States of America. The Declaration of Independence of July 4, 1776, Articles of Confederation of November 15, 1777 and Northwest Ordinance of July 13, 1787 are legal written precedent for the Constitution of September 17, 1787, which limits the federal law to federal territory.
The United States Code is the official source of all current and valid written law for all the territory owned by and ceded to the United States of America.
The Articles of Confederation of November 15, 1777 has been law since March 1, 1781. Repealed law does not appear in the United States Code published by the United States Government Printing Office. Here is a link to get started http://uscode.house.gov/pdf/Organic%20Laws/

Legally, a defendent can represent himself in court.

Legally, a citizen can make an arrest.

Legally, a jury has the right of Nullification.

But citizens forming a Grand Jury...basically combining all the above rights, and then some, is a stretch...Academic without the sanctioning of the system.

What's the next step, a trial, jury, sentencing outside the system to be carried out by citizens?

Probably not advisable, but I like your thinking outside the box!

"If you want something you've never had before, you have to do something you've never done before." Debra Medina

About 30 citizen's grand juries..

Have indicted Bush , Cheney , and Rumsfeld, so it's not really my idea, I think san Diego was one of the first to try a 9/11 prosecution

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I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility to every form of tyranny over the mind of man.