63 votes

Why I Am Joining The Lawyers For Ron Paul Grassroots. I have never Posted Before!

I just read the post regarding supporting Mitt Romney from "the Granger"! WOW!! Have we forgotten why we have joined the Liberty movement and all that we have learned?

I became a Republican in 2004. I voted for Harry Brown, but prior to that my vote went to Clinton. I was like most Americans listening to the propaganda. I watched the day we were bombing in Iraq, I blamed the Iraqi's for having schools and churches so close to military bases. As the media did. Was I ever naive. I have learned so much.

So, now I have to respond to "theGrangers" Post and the dailypaul supporters and tell you why I have decided to post at this time and support this grassroots remedy:

1) The RNC is trying everything to STOP us, they are afraid

2) They are trying to unseat every Paul supporter ANYWAY

3) I was disenfranchised, segregated, bullied, threatened, intimidated, and coerced at my county convention

4) I was told this is "the way politics are these days," by someone we ALL respect and who has been covering these autrocities, works for the campaign, and agrees this is bad, very bad.

5) If we do no stand up for these injustices now, what gives us the idea it will change in 2016?

6) There is no other "Ron Paul" on the radar, so he is the one we have to fight for now. The Liberty movement is nothing without "US". We did this, not the campaign, but US. We donated, we called, we emailed. NOW, we need to continue to fight.

7) I heard that the Lawyers for Ron Paul grassroots was done for, "RIP", they quit, even another national delegate was sent a text stating this, NOT TRUE, if this was not a good idea, why would they want to squelch it so badly? Why would Romney people waste there time texting and blogging and posting these kind of UNTRUTHS?

8) After Rand and Benton, I thought, "Why start beleiving anything the media and the reporters, like Sean Hannity, have to say, NOW? Why start now?

9) Why is the media covering ALL the election fraud in other countries BUT not our own?

10) Why was aussycyn's post receiving bumps and in the top post regarding Hawaii and California and suddenly dropped by more than 13 bumps?

11) What have we got to lose? We have the momentum, the time is now. Otherwise, it gives them 4 years to combat our movement. We need to keep our momentum strong

12) They are afraid, we must seize the moment. We need to call them out.

13) Delegates have lead by fear and not gone through with this,but if we do not speak out, it will only get worse.

THE BIGGEST REASON: WHY did the Ron Paul campaign see ALL these election fraud happenings and NOT hire their own lawyers? NOW, it is too late in the game for them to start an official suit and combat this effectively. Are people that afraid of their political future? AND if so, do you think THIS kind of election process is what we are fighting for?

I am pledging to support the lawyers for Ron Paul grassroots movement. I am taking a leap of faith. Help stop the violence, threats, and blatant fraud in our voting system. Allow, WE THE PEOPLE to have a voice again.

Join the fight at http://electionfraudremedy.com.

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I am in California, but what

I am in California, but what is the point in joining the lawsuit, can I even do anything?

I was a Ron Paul selected delegate, but we lost our county's popular vote making the Romney delegates chosen.

If there is anything I can do, then I will join.... but is there?

What County are you in? Can you PM me?

Certain counties have more evidence of election rigging than others. You could submit testimony that voters in your county were potentially disenfranchised.

There is also the issue of the election rigging and slander that has arisen from the media. There are ways for you to make a valid complaint about your delegateship.


From other posts of people talking to Richard, he

says yes, look on the website for his contact number. I saw that we had 6 from Cali now, so that is better than what we had on Friday.

Take these www.3StepsTowardFreedom.com to assist Ron Paul in becoming our next Commander In Chief. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-480OMya3U

What county are you in?

There are some counties which, when charted, proved to be flippers. You make the case that there was cheating in your district and, thus, you file yourself as a plantiff.

Will help you. Send me a PM.

no, results were not flipped

You had a tiny, tiny sample for your exit polling in California and your results still showed Romney winning by a huge margin. Even if you had a perfectly representative sample, your confidence interval would be very large. There's a long list of reasons why your sample is not completely representative, and so the actual error in your results could be even larger. How are you going to prove that the votes were rigged and the wrong delegates won?

Steve Dickson's picture

Steps you can take...and the case AGAINST L4RP

If party rules were violated:
READ the Rules of the Republican Party, Rules 20, 22, and 23. FILE a challenge in the correct manner with the Committee on Contests, prior to July 27th. DOCUMENT what happened and prepare your challenge.

Yes, some of you believe this is a futile gesture sure to lose. I disagree. There are many RNC members who are not Ron Paul supporters, but they aren't Romney supporters either. If they are presented with hard logical evidence by people willing to work within the party (US) then they may rule in our favor. We also maintain the high road in regards to the PR side of this. Don't forget, if there are 30 states with legitimate challenges - and I believe there are - that has a huge impact.

If state law was violated:
PRESS CHARGES. Document the crap out of it, and file civil lawsuits as well, using local attorneys that YOU pick. Each state has different rules and laws, and what applies in one state does not necessarily apply in another. Know the Law, know the Rules, know your attorney. Violating Party Rules may or may not be legal in your state - you'll have to check.

Regarding Lawyer for Ron Paul (seems to be only the one):
There are TWO ASPECTS of this lawsuit - the CASE and the LAWYER.
CASE, PART 1 - UNBINDING DELEGATES: this may or may not be relevant, but is certainly not the most pressing issue. I believe this has been settled, and you should go see what McCain-bound Arizona delegates did in 2008 so they could vote for Romney. The RNC has ruled on this already, so it's a moot point. More important than UNBINDING is VACATING AND REPLACING improperly elected or selected delegates (my state of Oklahoma, Massachusetts, etc.). If won, this will have minimal impact at the convention with the current makeup of delegates.

CASE, PART 2 - TITLE 42 (Civil Rights Act): It will be argued by the RNC and the State Parties that this does not apply to a private group's conventions, but only to the actual primary, runoff and general election voting. They will argue that Freedom to Assemble gives the party leeway in how they conduct voting and organization of their membership. To my knowledge, THERE IS NO PRECEDENCE TO APPLY THIS LAW TO PARTY CONVENTIONS. That lack of precedence will certainly delay things tremendously. If it is won it will be after numerous appeals - and therefore way, way, way too late to win things. In caucus states, there is a better case to be made for applying this law, and I would encourage those states to investigate the issue and pursue it - individually - if they find it applies. Using attorneys from your state, filing in your federal district court.

LAWYER: First, I know of only one lawyer involved in this. His name is Richard Gilbert, and he is in California. His website (http://www.gilbertandmarlowe.com/dynamicattorneys.htm) shows education here: Western State University College of Law, Fullerton, California, 1977; Whittier College School of Law, California and Areas of Practice here: Constitutional Law; Criminal Law; Custody & Visitation; Family Law; Personal Injury – Defense; Personal Injury – Plaintiff; Toxic Torts. His LinkedIn profile (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/richard-gilbert/12/290/754) lists Western State and HARVARD. I would like to know, did he go to Harvard? If so, when did he graduate and/or attend?

There are some articles about him from the LA Times (http://articles.latimes.com/keyword/richard-c-gilbert) mainly covering a couple of things: a surrogate mother case, which the Orange County Bar Association criticized him for making “improper personal attacks” on a judge after losing a highly publicized case regarding surrogate mothers (NBCUNIVERSAL Archive for purchase, Phil Donahue Show appearance of this case, link http://www.nbcuniversalarchives.com/nbcuni/clip/5112547625_s...) and the 2.5 pound marijuana bust at his house when a silent alarm went off. I really don't care about the marijuana bust, but you can be sure the Establishment will use this against him. I would very much like to know what cases he has tried related to election law, and at what levels. I have seen no presentation that he has any experience in these matters.

The point is he will be dismissed - and I am not saying this is an ethical thing to do, just that it WILL happen - because of his personal and professional past. He will be labeled as a pot smoking personal injury attorney, and if they can dismiss HIM, it hurts his (already weak) case.

I believe this has been the wrong effort by many people who are very committed to the cause of Liberty. Many - including my friends - have been taken in by this. We have had fights, we have had arguments, and we have splintered over something that EVEN IF WON WINS NOTHING. (This became so long I have decided to make it a blog post - will be up when the moderators approve it).

Steve, see his Facebook page:

He has a P.I.L. from Harvard. What on Earth is a P.I.L.?
It stands for “Program of Instruction For Lawyers”, a summer workshop, open to anyone.
He attended one of those around 2003, after which he began listing Harvard Law School on his website under: Education (since removed) and he put up “Named Best Lawyers in America by Harvard Law School Graduates” on the site's header.
Bottom line, it is the unscrupulous attorneys like him, which are responsible for the current non-shortage of clichés surrounding the profession of law..

Not a good idea

"where they could be cornered in a Tampa hotel lobby or hallway and threatened."
That would not be a good idea.
Posted by Delegate to RNC and a Vietnam Vet.

Front Page in my Opinion

I especially like #5 and 6. The longer you wait to stop a tyrant, the worse they get. It is already very out of control. People talk about winning in the future. We might be fortunate if this country makes it to the coming election. The other great point was what do we have to lose? We have everything to gain and this wholr nation to lose if we don't step up. Thanks Fedup, you really said it well.

You read my thread?

Did you get on a central committee?

Did you go to a central committee meeting before the state convention?

Did the the central committee vet you as that is their job (make you sign a loyalty oath, an oath to the U.S. Constitution, and sign a 470, will not commit fraud, which they register with your county clerk?

Now about L4RP:
Since when was RP for Federal dictatorship by a court over State Laws?

Since when was RP for a police state ei: Armed Federal Marshalls occupying the RNC, in the name of "protection"?

For a fact I know fedup did

I would like to know, since when is all this corruption GOING WITHOUT NOTICE? People have been harmed, physically, mentally, have you read any of these cases? Do you know about PTSD? People have had nightmares because of the actions of the central committee members that are listening to the media and that Ron Paul is "dangerous". The sergeant of arms has been called, the police has been called, FOR WHAT, wanting to vote in a fair election. The corruption is so incredibly disgusting that RON PAUL himself should be speaking out about it. For God's sakes I know Doug Wead has blogged enough about it.

You did not attend your meeting and were threatened by a mob yelling at you that you were a "crazy and a whacko", that everything is your fault and have the feeling of a few more seconds and these people will lynch you..... SO, I think once you experience that helpless feeling and sworn affidavits from others who said they felt "RAPED", and still more that felt "dirty", "violated, and "molested", after this experience then maybe you would agree that something needs to be done. You give opinion with no concrete plan.

I am done being quiet!!!!!

Take these www.3StepsTowardFreedom.com to assist Ron Paul in becoming our next Commander In Chief. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-480OMya3U

This is Politics

And playing dirty has been a part of politics for several thousand years. It started out as a philosophical endeavor, but eventually they realized they could use their ideas to push emotional buttons, and it would yield them great power.

People got beat with sticks, stabbed, their house burned down and worse; and either they quit the game, or lived to fight another day. But in Athens, they didn't have youtube, so unless someone knew how to read, or was privileged enough to associate with politicians, they really just went about their lives without knowing.

Nowadays, people enter politics by their own choice, and if someone is getting PTSD and having nightmares over it, then politics is not the kind of thing they need to be engaging in.

Most importantly, politics is the art of pissing people off, and seeing as how you have been foaming at the mouth on here all afternoon, someone has done a number on you. Perhaps you should take a few days off from here and reflect on how you got this way, because whether realizing it or not, you're playing the game and it's clouding your judgment.

The people you see at the conventions who say "I hate those Paul people," they are not disgusting pigs or criminals, they are your neighbors, your brothers and sisters, fellow countrymen. They are in politics, and someone has done a number on them, and being triggered emotionally, they don't stop to think.

When people make posts that you disagree with, they are probably not paid operatives. I know this because you're gonna disagree with me, and I am certainly not being paid by anyone to make this post. The reason we are making posts like this is not to make personal attacks on you, make you feel bad or discouraged, but to make you think. What you are doing is not productive; you are giving away your power, and causing the collective power of these forums to slowly evaporate.

But if you can stand in a room, and maintain your composure while others try to push your buttons, your power remains intact, and you live to fight another day.

GOP vetting delegates is not an election

breaking fingers is a personal injury suit, not a federal case.

They were not vetted, and it's no one's fault but their own. They attempted to cheat, but not being vetted, and thinking it was an election.

It's apparent they had NO IDEA what they wetre doing but got advice on how to cheat, They lost.

People who have been on DP for 5 minutes are called trolls, just like people who show up at a Convention and try to take over, are trolls.

If you can't see both sides, you're not trying to see, just push an agenda, which to me, doesn't look legal, but emotional.

They "felt" raped, They were not. The GOP has a STATE RIGHT BY LAW, to vet and select their delegates just like Nystrom has a right to ban people from DP.

You Granger

are not all there for making this statement.

"They "felt" raped, They were not. The GOP has a STATE RIGHT BY LAW, to vet and select their delegates"

You are clueless.

November 6th 2012 I voted for Dr.Ron Paul
"We must remember, elections are short-term efforts. Revolutions are long-term projects." ~ Ron Paul

I have my by-laws right here

I am not clueless.


I know what it is to be raped. I know what it is to be abused. I know what it is to to go to a committee meeting and be yelled at for what happened at a convetion I was not selected to attend. I know what it is to go to meetings for a year and not be seated. I know what it is to not be invited to the parties and fundraisers, and told to my face I will not be invited, where others were collecting their signatures for ballot access. But that did not stop me from getting my signatures as a RON PAUL REPUBLICAN openly, qualifiying for the ballot, and having it published in the paper.

That got my car keyed and being called a RACIST, HOMOSPHOBE, WOMAN HATING SICK B--- by the overwhelming Ubra liberal comunity where I live that HATES RON PAUL.

I held my ground. I didn't remove my stickers or signs. I went to Occupy, I went to stores, hospitals, businesses, people's homes and I promoted Ron Paul.

So please, get over your idea that you are defending people who have been hurt. TAKE IT TO YOUR STATE WITH AN ATTORNEY.

But to join in on a federal law suit that demonizes the GOP, where there are many good people, people who I cenverted to RON PAUL. My County placed THIRD in CA for a turn out, above those who had Meet-ups, and billboards, and far more opportunity than I had.

You didn't answer my questions, and you act like the liberals where I live. Not a Libertarian, not an Indy, but a Clinton Democrat.

Now, get this: I've never been married, I don't have children because I was raped when I was a child. I was beaten, abused and sufferd terrible pain, nightmares, fears, and have been through YEARS of therapy to heal pain that NEVER goes away. I KNOW what it is. I KNOW what damage it does to people.. and to say "you feel raped"... Let me tell you, when you've been raped, you don't go around saying what it felt like. You just go on with your life making it as best you can.

All this drama from you and a few others here who act like you're the big defenders of justice. YOU'RE NOT!!!

I know what TRUTH is, I seek it, and I'm NOT afraid. I learned how to fight, and I learned how to win.

I invited Richard to come to Mendo. Know what he asked me? Can he bring his beagle. So I said, "Sure; this area is very dog friendly, we have restaurants, beaches, trails, parks, all equipted with wonderful facilities for dogs".

I told people who I volunteer with at a soup kitchen, where I cook, wash and feed 100 folks, that I had met a nice attorney who was helping Ron Paul, and I invited him up and that he asked if he could bring his beagle." They all broke out LOL. I asked: "Whaaa??" Why are you guys laughing?? Oh they tell me... he's not talking about a dog. He's proposing to have sex with you.

I have not talked to Richard since. I have NO idea if he has a beagle or not.

I went to church and confessed. I thought I met a nice man who might be a friend. I WAS WRONG!!!!!!!!!!

And my dear, I fear for you.

You want to be mean to me, go for it, no one can hurt me as I was hurt as a kid. I can take it. But as for trying to shame me or try to make me into a uncompassionate mean spirited cold hearted b----.

You've got the WRONG Granger.

Good Luck with your lawsuit. I'm sticking with RON PAUL rEVOLution, people who I TRUST and BELIEVE in 1000%.

Since When

You make some points I thoght about, but since when did anyone tell a U.S. citizen how to vote? Also, since when was it wrong to defend against fraud? Since when should we stand by and let elections be stolen right in front of our eyes. Is it wrong when we have had people slapped and bones broken in OK and LA, to bring in your own marshalls? If they bring in their marshalls, we can bring in ours.

Thank you for giving my comments thought.

U.S. citizen, which one must be, qualifying for a seat on a Central Committee, goes to the County Clerk's office, after they send a letter saying that you have qualified for ballot access, they, the county clerk, produces papers for you to sign.

One is an oath to the U.S. Constitution, another is a loyalty paper to the Party you represent, since one has to get signatures from registered party members to qualify, in representing Republicans, I take a loyalty oath to the GOP, and it is reproduced in my county'c central committee by-laws, that I will limit my vote to the GOP and not endorse, support, campaign for a candidate in another party, and that if I do, it is grounds for my being removed from the committee.

Of course how I actually vote in the booth is my "private business"; However, here in CA, most of us are forced to vote by mail, and in that process you must sign the envelope holding your ballot, or one can return the ballot by hand to a voting station on election day, where the inspector opens it, inspects it for fraud, and submits it at their descression. Of course, this gives them an opportunity to see who you have voted for, and since many central committee members also work at elections, they, who do keep an eye on whos' who, could "bust you", not that they would tell you, but I do know that some ballots don't pass their inspection and are turned in in a seperate envelope for further inspection. This is not to be confused with a provisional ballot.

Fighting fraud is not easy because fraud is where the loop holes are. If you were at a state convention and someone broke your hand, for whatever reason, this is a personal injury law suit, which L4RP has admitted, they are not going to to press personal injury law suits. Central committees are "inside jobs" as it is their job to vet, candidates, issues and delegates. A delegate is usually invited by the central committee to participate at a convention, so the delegate is subject to signing the same papers the county clerk has every committee member sign, an oath the the U.S. Constitution, the party and a 470/ will not committ fraud.

Those who are complaining that the GOP asked them to sign papers are rejecting their state law, and why L4RP are making a federal case, to disempower the states, and empower the federal government.

Federal Marshalls work for the government, and in this case, to protect those who have moved to not work under their state laws, but have expressed the need for protection from their state by the U.S. federal government.

It would have been better, IMO, that people follow their state laws, sign the papers, and look for opening on their central committees.

Ron Paul says we should empower the states, the lawsuit does the exact opposite.

You are making ludicrous statements

"However, here in CA, most of us are forced to vote by mail".

No one in CA is forced to vote by mail unless they are invalid and cannot go to a polling station. And don't try to tell us people live so far off the beaten path they don't have polling stations in their county.

November 6th 2012 I voted for Dr.Ron Paul
"We must remember, elections are short-term efforts. Revolutions are long-term projects." ~ Ron Paul

Look in the mirror

In my county, most vote by mail http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/hist_absentee.htm


Thank you so much for posting that especially this:

11) What have we got to lose? We have the momentum, the time is now. Otherwise, it gives them 4 years to combat our movement. We need to keep our momentum strong

12) They are afraid, we must seize the moment. We need to call them out.

So where is the donate button?


Keepin' it real.

Since This Lawsuit, From the Very Beginning

PROMISED to be "Pro Bono" there is no need for a "Donate Button".
Many have maxxed out on their donations.
Some are Delegates who now face the aspect of not being able to afford the costs associated with:
1.Travel and lodging for the RNC-Tampa
2.Contributing cash to a lawyer who "promised" a NO-COST ACTION.

Richard Gilbert should have been truthful to the PLAINTIFFS and to HIMSELF in his "sizing up" of this case, including:
1.Possible Costs
a.To Himself
b.To Delegates
2.Political Fallout, including:
a.Disqualification of CURRENT RP Delegates
b.The absolute elimination of chances for an OPEN CONVENTION.
c.REJECTION of Posible CONVERTS due to a polarization effect
e.REACTION to his "We Are Taking Over the Grassroots"! boast.
3. The TIMETABLE; Could the Objective be accomplished in time?
4.Whether the Law was currently in effect and had by precedent eliminated the "dire need" to have him represent The Movement.
5.Possibility of personal injury lawsuits.
(Which he claims cannot be acted upon after his representation has been in effect...a lie)

Mr.Gilbert has NOT been truthful as to the "size-up" of this suit.
In all regards he has deceived, and mislead both HIMSELF and the RON-PAUL-GRASSROOTS.

"Beyond the blackened skyline, beyond the smoky rain, dreams never turned to ashes up until.........
...Everything CHANGED !!

Yeah, donations would be great to help us get on

track and prepared for the next 4, after we rock their world in Tampa, right.

I think the elction remedy might be taking some donations just to pay for court costs for filing, BUT I am not sure.

I agree with most of your list

except the "what have we got to lose" part. Our time is now. Who knows if we will ever get a chance like this again. The lawyers say that they are expecting the court to reaffirm a prior ruling that allows delegates to vote their conscience. The law is ALREADY on our side. Opening this up to the courts means that the judge could decide the opposite way and that we might lose that advantage! Please do more research on this! Please read the research that people have posted here! It could be a handful of delegates who unwittingly destroy what we all have been working so hard for...even with the best of intentions. Don't be that person. I am a conservative who never voted for Bush, I don't vote for RINOs or neocons. I won't be voting for Romney. I want to be able to tell my grandchildren that I fought against these people. I woke up long ago and learned my lessons about politics early because I tried to defeat Bush by joining the Buchanan effort. I've been an activist ever since. So I've seen the way these things work, and political pressure makes all judges cave, even the conservative ones. I've seen political cases where none of the evidence was even considered. We need to engage the courts to try get our delegates seated at the state level. If we lose there, then we do not risk the entire campaign. Please, we have to win this! People have been talking about the delegate strategy for years before Dr. Paul even considered running. It has long been known that this might be the only way to pull a coup and get someone genuine into office. Let's stick to that strategy.

p.s. If you are offended by the Granger's position on voting for Romney if Paul doesn't get in, please Remember that the Granger was one of the biggest supporters of this lawsuit for quite a while here.

You state in your post to do the research, but you mention

posts on these as your reference point. Do you know that I was told on a video conference on more than one occasion that this grassroots lawyer for Ron Paul thing was over? Did you realize that some national delegates are getting text messages stating the same thing, that it is done and we should not bother? What should that be telling you? When this is CLEARLY not the case??? They will be unseating us and making backroom and frontroom deals. We have to get on board any way we can. When you come up with a better solution, or the campaign does to get Dr. Paul the nomination, PLEASE post it here, until then do not join with the Rino's or the neo-cons or the likes of Hannity and Beck. The lawyer and paralegals have not quit, I repeat they have not, BUT others are so frightened of us, they are trying to tell us that they did.

IF the campaign is so against this, then they should have given us a better solution instead of running away with their tails between their legs, without any protection for the delegates. I was physically threatened and I have not heard from officials to help deal with this.

GIVE me a real solution and I am willing to be proven wrong and willing to listen. For now, this is it. WE HAVE TO HONOR OUR ELECTION PROCESS BY FIGHTING AGAINST THE BLATANT CORRUPTION.


Fight, but fight smart. This particular case is asking the court a question, the question of whether or not delegates are bound. Do you really want an answer on that one...even if it one that could sink all of our efforts? Please take a look at what Oklahoma is doing. They are taking legal action the smart way. That is the solution! Take legal action to seat as many delegates as possible. But that is not what this particular lawsuit is about. As for the rumor about the lawsuit being over, I have no idea. That wasn't posted here, but it might have been started because of one of Richard Gilbert's tweets about dissolving the executive committee.

BMWJIM's picture

It does not matter at this point.

Just bought 100lbs of flour. 200 lbs of beans. Will purchase 50 lbs of each for the next 5 weeks. In addition I will be purchasing many staples for everyday life. People like you are totally screwed.

Luckily, I have many from the DP that have saved seed and we share. I will not share with anyone that doesn't see through the fog. You SIR/MADAM are truly Fucked!

See you after. It really is over. Michael, Please send me a copy of your soap recipe. I will trade my Blueberry/Strawberry/Peach Preserves.

Semper Fi!


1976-1982 USMC, Having my hands in the soil keeps me from soiling my hands on useless politicians.

dont forget to

freeze the flour for at least 2-3 days to kill any weevil eggs in it. Same with other foods made from grains (oatmeal, quaker oats, dried pasta, etc.).

good tip

good reminder....

Now in some states you are considered a terrorist. Shame on

people allowing this kind of crap. Our nation is young and for thousands of years we have had corrupt empires build up and armies come in and take them down. When people call our constitution archaic it is more propaganda.

I am glad you are doing preparedness, I need to go that route as well.

optimystic's picture

I've been seeing this a LOT lately

from the original thread above:

"10) Why was aussycyn's post receiving bumps and in the top post regarding Hawaii and California and suddenly dropped by more than 13 bumps?"

Shame on the trolls.