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60 days in prison and a $12,180 fine for hosting a home bible study in Arizona

60 days in prison and a $12,180 fine for hosting a home bible study in Arizona

The war on home Bible studies and house churches is heating up again. Down in Phoenix, Arizona a man has been sentenced to 60 days in prison and has been fined $12,180 for hosting a Bible study in his home. Since 2005, Michael Salman and his wife have been hosting gatherings of about 15 or 20 people where they share food, fellowship and discuss the Bible. Unfortunately, that kind of thing is against the law in Phoenix, Arizona apparently. At one point, nearly a dozen armed police officers raided their home and "evidence" of their "crimes" was gathered. Michael Salman was found guilty of 67 "code violations", and now he is going to be ripped away from his family and put in prison for two months. In addition, the assistant city prosecutor is asking the court to "revoke his probation and convert it into a 2 1/2 year jail sentence since he continues to hold worship gatherings on his property despite court orders." This kind of case has the potential to have a huge "chilling effect" on home gatherings of all kinds all over the United States.

You may be thinking that you are glad that this man is being put in prison because you aren't a Christian and you don't have any sympathy for Christians.

Well, what if you wanted to hold small gatherings in your home to discuss the U.S. Constitution?

Or what if you wanted to hold small gatherings in your home to play cards or watch football?

The U.S. Constitution guarantees "the right of the people peaceably to assemble", and when the constitutional rights of one person are under attack, it is an attack on all of us.

Continued:
http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/60-days-in-prison-...



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This is exactly why we need to join the grassroots and the

suit, they keep drawing th eline further and further into our freedoms. http://www.dailypaul.com/243933/urgent-deadline-is-at-9-am-g...

His property is his property.

Regardless of anything he's been convicted of in the past, the way his neighbors feel about him or any character flaws he may have, he was not violating the Non-Aggression Principle, and was doing all this on his own property.

He's charged with “representing as a church on his
home property without securing the proper
permits,”, Your property is your property and no one has the right to initiate force against you if you are not aggressing against anyone else.

Guns , blue/black uniforms and shiny badges don't give you the right to violate the rights of others.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

Exactly right Josh

thelines of freedom are being redrawn by the agenda of the few. The majority need to get together and speak out. The clue is getting together. STOP listening to the media, but get together on freedom. Goodto hear from you.

+1 for Rothbard signature

Oh yeah, and this:
"Guns , blue/black uniforms and shiny badges don't give you the right to violate the rights of others."

Upon hearing of protest over the healthcare bill Obama proclaimed:

"And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes."

My bad...that's actually Luke 12:47.

Please Change the title of this.

Man tries to use religious persecution as defense for not following the law. Oh he has also declared he does not have to follow the laws of the US because he is .... oh I forget, google this guy ! He is crazy and dangerous ! He doesn't believe in marriage equality, but yet he is or has been divorced. I will return with a link.

Did you miss this part?

A Christian couple from Orange County, Calif., were fined earlier this month for holding Bible studies and for what city officials called “a regular gathering of more than three people” in their homes. They have now been told they face a $500 fine if they continue to hold their home Bible study gatherings."

You seem to be unnaturally obsessed with this guy's personal life for some reason while continually ignoring the overstep of government in this situation. Technically if you have some friends over to watch a game he police could take you in and fine you for not getting a permit first.

Thanks for the heads up I

Thanks for the heads up I will look into this...

If my need to be RIGHT is greater than my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle

This guy is a nut'

Do some research on him. He isn't the innocent persecuted Christian he is being made out to be. He is an ex gang member, has done drive by shooting in to a young mans home and almost killed his mother. He did 6 yrs for that. He has impersonated a police officer to scare the hell out of a boy who was "messing around" with a girl in his church. He has been a problem for his neighbors. This is not a case of religious persecution.

What is wrong with you?

This isn't about him. It doesn't make any difference who he impersonated or what kind of a person he once was or how many years he served. This is about the government sticking it nose where it has nobusiness being. If you read the article, you know this is no isolated incident. The idea of the police breaking up the peaceful assembly of people who are legally in the United States in UNAMERICAN! If I want to have fifteen or twenty people over to my house for coffee and erect a giant cross on MY property that I own, in a free society, I have a right to do it.

Linda Cross's picture

Every day more rights are trampled on,

the right to assemble, to be safe in our dwellings, and freedom of religion vs the right to a quiet neighborhood.

If you see something, say something, the government is listening.
Silence isn't golden, it's yellow.

Well.. I'm an Atheist.

I may not agree with Christianity, or any religion for that matter, but I'd fight to the death for your right to practice it. ESPECIALLY in your own home. What I choose to believe (or not believe) in my own home, is my right - as it is yours.

I don't know if there's more to this story than what the original post reports, but on the face of it, this isn't right.

MitchMitchMitch...You are not alone here!

There is a site on Ron Paul's home page where there is a list of categories of Ron Paul supporters but it does not include Atheists for Ron Paul... but it should.

In fact I wrote to him and suggested that I agree with him on so many things without listing them all here, but starting with his record of voting consistently with Article 1 Section 8.

I suggested that despite my profound disagreement with him on his anti choice position of a woman's right to choose to terminate her pregnancy, pointing out his mistaken notion that a microscopic fertilized ovum is a person. It is not rather it is a potential human being not an actual one in the first trimester at least and that he should be consistent in supporting the woman's right to her own life, her right to be free to chose and her right to the pursuit of her own happiness.

But I still support him and I even registered Republican and voted for the delegates who were on the Ronald Reagan Liberty Unity Slate in Romney's own district.

I suggested that he start a Pro choice Atheists for Ron Paul category!

How I wish these religious people would read George H. Smith's Atheism: The Case Against God and Richard Dawkin's The God Delusion and Christopher Hitchen's God is Not Great to see what we mean.
In fact Classics of Free Thought by Paul Blanshard is also worth reading] as it includes some of Thomas Jefferson's thoughts.

No Man's need constitutes an obligation on the part of another man to fulfill that need.

So....pro-choice Methodists need not apply?

Creating a pro-choice anything for Ron Paul would be like creating a pro-national healthcare group for Ron Paul. He wouldn't include it on his site because it would be contradictory to what he stands for on healthcare.

GG

says: "...I suggested that despite my profound disagreement with him on his anti choice position of a woman's right to choose to terminate her pregnancy, pointing out his mistaken notion that a microscopic fertilized ovum is a person. It is not rather it is a potential human being not an actual one in the first trimester at least and that he should be consistent in supporting the woman's right to her own life, her right to be free to chose and her right to the pursuit of her own happiness..."

Not an actual one (person) at least in the first trimester? By the 6th week, the heart is beating and visible via ultrasound!!
Fetal Development Month by Month:
http://www.justmommies.com/articles/fetal_development.shtml

I am a woman and am 100% anti-abortion. Imo, it's murder. If a woman doesn't want a baby, then she should keep her legs closed or use one or more of the MANY birth control methods available. I am especially repulsed by those who are so very irresponsible that they use abortion like it IS a birth control method!

In addition, as Dr. Paul so eloquently states (quoting Adams): The Constitution was made for a moral people. If 'we' have so little regard for human life, if we do not even protect the most vulnerable among us, then how can 'we' expect to restore this nation to her Constitutional bounds?

(Just someone with a very different opinion than yours)

O.P.O.G.G. - Fighting the attempted devolution of the rEVOLution
Ron Paul 2012...and beyond
BAN ELECTRONIC VOTING!!

I was under the impresson

I was under the impresson that Constitutional law always superseded State law?

The Constitutional Supremacy

The Constitutional Supremacy clause means only that the Feds trump the States only if they are consistent with the enumerated powers in Art 1 Sect 8. All other powers are retained by the States, unless forbidden to the States in Art 1 Sec9, and to the people.
See The Tenth AMendment Center for more on this subject.

No Man's need constitutes an obligation on the part of another man to fulfill that need.

So a city ordinance disrupts

So a city ordinance disrupts freedom of religion? That doesn't seem right.

Every state guarantees freedom

freedom of assembly and religion in the state Constitution. The problem involves "safety regulations". Technically, police could break up a church service in a church and arrest the pastor if a city ordinance was violated in the way the building was constructed, much like police could shut down a business if the business didb't follow health procedures. If challenged, it would be up to the courts in Arizona whether or not that particular city ordinance violated the state Constitution.

*

So how did Michael Salman's problems start?

You can probably guess.

His "neighbors" complained about noise and "traffic congestion".

So that is how city officials got involved. We have become a nation of informers and tattlers, and this is another perfect example of that.

So it's not the Bible study that's illegal, it's the congested streets causing the neighbors to complain and the city getting involved. As Chrisians we are admonished to obey the man-made rules unless those man-made rules violate God's rules. The California example is WRONG - and it seems the officials backed off after public preasure. What happened to the Personhood USA fellow was disturbing. The only thing that can change hearts that hard is prayer.

The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.
Ron Paul - The Revolution

Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms. Ron Paul

We have a God given right to our property!

And these jackbooted thugs are violating it!

Stop making excuses for them.

Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

Some may want to contact these people..

Mayor - 602-262-7111

City Councilman - 602-262-7446

City Mgr. - 602-262-6941

Aaron Carreon-Anisa (Prosecutor) - 602-262-6461

Hopefully Nobody Here feels this way...

"You may be thinking that you are glad that this man is being put in prison because you aren't a Christian and you don't have any sympathy for Christians."

Yeah, for all the Non-Christians on the DP... i hope nobody actually does feel that way because that would be ridiculous.
---
I thought the right to gather freely was one of the key components of the American Revolution. I guess this tyranny is another black mark on this years July 4 celebration.

There is much more to this

He is a nut.
http://home.conservativebabylon.com/2012/06/22/black-collar-...

The neighbors are probably afraid of him.

Of course it would be

Of course it would be ridiculous. What you have to ask yourself is if gathered to discuss their non-belief in man made religion and discussed other possibilities only to be broken up by the state would you feel sympathy? What really makes me sad is that I know that there are MANY who would be happy about that and just say "it's about time". Remember when you are fighting for freedom you are fighting for freedom for everyone regardless of beliefs or non.

I doubt there's a single religious person

anywhere in America who would feel that way about a bunch of non-believers. They disn't arrest him because of what he was discussing anyway. It was because of some stupid fire ordinance.

Not good

I personally believe that Christianity and most organized religions are just clever ways to control the masses and transfer wealth. It has worked for thousands of years but we are now seeing the awakening and the fall of Christianity. I am a very spiritual person and I do believe that there is a "god" but I believe that it is something that humans don't have the mental capacity to understand. It would be like explaining physics to a dog. It infuraiates me when I see what those in religious power have done to the minds of the people. They should be giving their followers money, not the other way around. I respect other peoples beliefs and I would hope that those whom are religious respect my non belief in organized religion.

In a truly free country people with like minds would be able to gather and discuss whatever it is that they believe or do not believe. To be punished like that for gathering to discuss beliefs is absolute tyranny and it makes me shake my head in disgust when there are so many that believe America is free.

Someone Please Get This Information To Them!

How is the STATE, or the STATE Prosecutor bringing charges against them?

http://www.dailypaul.com/243521/can-the-state-be-an-injured-...

And, if the property is paid off and they are extorting property tax out of him, maybe he should send them a letter in the lines of:

It is my understanding this property is owned "Free Simple Absolute", and ask them by what authority are they putting conditions of ownership on his/her property?

If he takes over the Executor Office of his Estate, then the STATE and the courts have no jurisdiction; if the STATE isn't sending him/her a bi-weekly employment check, then how does the STATE having any jurisdiction over him?

Yeah, good luck with that

Try telling the state that they don't have the right to tax your property. As much as I agree with you I have no intention of going to jail or losing my property.

It's happening again

The good people of Arizona need to elect some representatives who will actually uphold the constitution.
Why does it take "nearly a dozen armed policement"?
Hey cops, didn't you guys pledge to "UPHOLD" the constitution.
Those founding fathers had experienced this kind of crap and knew about it all too well, this is why we have a Constitution and a Bill of Rights.
An injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
The sad part is we are all paying for our own "enslavement" by the police state..Our TAXES.
Abolish the I.R.S.
Vote Ron Paul 2012.