44 votes

Our Delegates WANT this lawsuit: Why are we fighting it?

There are numerous misconceptions about the lawsuit that are worthy of clarifying. Foremost in this regard is that the claim that this suit has nefarious origins and is, thus, an act of subterfuge. Nothing could be further than the truth. In fact, this is strictly an action by Ron Paul voters. In other words, it is an entirely grassroots action. There are no illicit groups involved. Plus, it is an action taken by Ron Paul delegates of their own free will.

For that reason alone it is worthy of support.

Another misconception is that somehow this legal action will hurt our delegates or that it will, perhaps, disqualify them. This, too, is baseless. In fact, it is the opposite of the suit’s nature. The entire purpose of the suit is to prevent the criminal regime, which operates the election process, to do just that: use intimidation and coercion to disqualify and obstruct Ron Paul delegates.

Equally deceiving is this presumption, commonly posted on Ron Paul-friendly sites:

"The RNC will disqualify all delegates who are party to the lawsuit, because they have the power to disqualify anyone who sues them. So, if our delegates are party to the lawsuit, they will be disqualified."

No doubt, such postings would create doubt, as well as fear, in Ron Paul supporters. Yet, is this true? Our delegates already live in fear of this occurring: without the lawsuit. Even so, if this legal action prevails, than protecting the delegates from any such action will be the precise consequence.

The treachery against Ron Paul and his delegates is pervasive. Yet, it isn’t the lawsuit which is causing this treachery. It is instead the RNC. Moreover, the lawsuit is directed precisely and surgically against this organization. Thus, to attempt to derail the suit is equivalent to siding with the RNC itself: not a logical option.

The war against this movement comes mainly from without. Yet, it has also arisen to a degree from within. There were even saboteurs who struck from within the Ron Paul campaign.

Others are apparently working for the enemy, while operating under the illusion of “Ron Paul supporters, directors, and coordinators.” One notable example is Monica Serrano. This woman has attempted to completely undermine Arkansas’ six RP delegates/alternates. Incredibly, she attempted to coerce them into voting for Romney an d in two cases succeeded in gaining signatures. Fortunately, one very wise delegate exposed this, writing the following post on the DailyPaul:

http://97.65.137.56/242142/treachery-in-arkansas. This was followed by a shrewdly written letter, while admittedly powerful, written by attorney Richard Gilbert in defense of the delegates. In this letter Serrano was warned of her potentially incriminating acts, which amounted to coercion of the delegates.

UPDATE: two delegates, including one national alternate, have told me that they are frightened at what might happen to them in Tampa without this legal remedy. Other individuals who are solidly behind this include former delegates from the 2008 convention. They know the score; they know that the entire convention is militarized against them.

Read more:
http://www.libertyusapac.org/wordpresspac/2012/07/10/our-del...



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Ahhh....no.

Some of these so-called Romney people got there only because they cheated Ron Paul out of his votes which would have determined the number of delegates or they were "influenced' by their state chairs who are being "influenced" by the RNC/ROMNEY..as this was done illegally according to federal election law, ..these occurrences are what is unfair.

Rigging vote machines in Arizona is UNFAIR. Locking doors for conventions is UNFAIR. Breaking bones and creating an atmosphere of fear and intimidation for voting for anybody except Romney is UNFAIR. I could go on. But THAT is why people are doing this lawsuit.

Perhaps in the future you could 'think to the next step"....it would help you in this life.

SequoiaTrees4RonPaul

yeah, unfortunately

Even with a good lawyer this lawsuit would go nowhere, and unfortunately for the people involved, they're not operating with that strategic advantage.

I completely agree regarding the issue of honesty and delegate voting. Though I am not personally supporting Ron Paul's campaign, if I was a delegate bound to vote for him and he didn't release me, I would cast my ballot for him. I wish some people here who are so in favor of doing the opposite could be on the other side of this situation. If Ron Paul had dominated the primaries and was on his way to be the nominee, but a bunch of people organized to get his delegate spots and were saying that even though they had promised to vote for Ron Paul they were going to vote for Jeb Bush, would people on this site be so in favor of voting your conscience? Can anyone say (with a straight face) that they would?

And your last paragraph is also correct. Some people have convinced themselves that there are 5 times as many stealth delegates as there actually are. The actual number who are BOUND to Romney but are really die-hard Paul supporters is going to end up being in the vicinity of 150. If all Paul supporters who were bound to Romney voted for Ron Paul, there's still very little chance that he would finish with more than 500 votes out of the 2286. Given that they almost surely won't be allowed to do so, I find it highly unlikely that he gets more than 400 votes at the convention. A few other scattered delegates who really don't like Romney might vote for Santorum or someone like that. I think the floor for Romney's vote total at the convention is in the 1700 range (and definitely no lower than 1600). It's not impossible that he could be up closer to 1900. The Ron Paul contingent has a given size. The other protest vote contingent will be small as it always is. Everyone else is going to vote for Romney. He will win by over 1000 votes unless he is in a coma, a coffin, or the clink.

Interesting

I agree with your analysis. I've never heard the "coma, coffin, or clink" expression before. But now I'm curious. Why comment at DP if you're not a Paul supporter? Just interested in politics?

I will tell you why he comments on the Daily Paul versus any

Mitt Romney sites.

First of all, have YOU ever tried commenting at a Mitt Romney site? You will have a hard time. The forums are monitored and censored and comments are turned off after only a few comments. If you dissent they kick you right off. The comments and disussions are so old or absolutely mind-numbing that nobody would go there twice.

At least Shazad has someone to disagree with here. The other commenters at Mitt Romney sites are beyond boring. They are brain-dead.

With these thoughts in mind, I am still waiting to hear why Shazad still hasn't seen the light. He knows Romney stands for NOTHING.I have to think the previous commenter was right in that Shazad is sitting in his mother's basement eating cheetos. There can be no other explanation.

SequoiaTrees4RonPaul

.

I don't think it's a "phrase". I just made it up. Those seem to be the only ways either Romney or Obama will not be their parties' nominees at this point.

I started commenting here in early April after the race (in my opinion) was decided. I needed something to do late one night to stay up while I was waiting for some friends to arrive, and I ended up here. I had followed the delegate process quite closely as I was hoping that my preferred candidate would continue to pull away. He eventually did. One of the things that intrigued me was why there was such a feeling of confidence about the race here while my numbers indicated that such should not be the case. It seemed like this was where all the action was in the rest of the primary race, since everyone else accepted that Romney was going to be the nominee. Between that, some general interest in certain topics that are discussed, some very good conversations I've with people here, the entertainment of reading about the new conspiracy theory of the day, and some other things, I decided to stick around. I'll probably stay until the convention at least.

The Shazad

is trying awful hard to put a stop to this case.
You must ask yourself why.

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."

Actually,

most of the delegates ARE unbound by RNC rules, and this has already been established. There are some delegates which are bound by their state laws to vote as expected in the first round only, but these are not the majority of delegates.

However, it is expected that many/most of the delegates will probably vote as they were bound. But some will not.

That part of the lawsuit is unnecessary, but apparently it was necessary for the sales job needed to sell people on the "lawsuit".

Regarding the other part, which relates to elections of candidates for president and other high offices cited in the USC statute that has been posted around here at various places, the events occurred while electing DELEGATES, and not candidates. With that huge of a loophole to drive thru, I don't think ANY of the issues at the state caucuses are going to be upheld in federal court. Perhaps each individual might bring his/her own case for damages to state court, and may very well get some compensation.

robot999's picture

Delegates

are unbound has been "established" by the Establishment GOP. YOu really trust them to allow people to vote their conscience after all they've done to the r3VOLution? If that were the case, why would they being doing what their doing in MASS? Sorry BigT, not buying it.

"Government is the entertainment division of the military-industrial complex". - Frank Zappa

not afraid

BTW, I can't speak for the two delegates who are frightened about what might happen to them in Tampa without this lawsuit, but I can speak for myself. I'll be a voting delegate and I'm not afraid at all. I'm not paranoid and I don't take too seriously people who are paranoid. That helps to minimize the fear. Credentialed Paul supporters at the convention hall who are not rude, weird, or violent have nothing to fear. At worst, you might face some peer pressure, maybe some dismissive or insulting comments. You won't face tear gas, billy clubs, or bullets. Let's not be so melodramtic.

robot999's picture

Oh

you mean like those non-rude, non-weird, non-violent Ron Paul supporters in the Louisiana state convention that had their bones broken, and hips disjointed. Yeah, like those people right?

"Government is the entertainment division of the military-industrial complex". - Frank Zappa

Paranoid of what?

Unlike your continuous trolling, here, Shazad, I don't and never will troll on Romney or Obama sites. Too busy doing productive things.

You, troll, are the paranoid one.

quite a bit, it appears

Fearing life without this lawsuit. Seeing sabotage inside and outside the Paul campaign. Thinking the entire election has been faked and that votes are being flipped to Mitt Romney. A solid portion of what you write is conspiracy theory nonsense and paranoia. I don't know if you actually believe this stuff or if you're playing it up with some ulterior motive.

it's higher now?

Given that you had only a couple delegates in the initial 122, even though you guys claim to have a few hundred now, I highly doubt there are significant numbers of real national delegates. The pleading you guys have done for delegates to join in makes me strengthen that belief. Maybe most of the plaintiffs you added weren't state delegates, alternate delegates, people that wanted to be delegates, and random people who wanted to complain about the results, but rather actual national delegates - but I kind of doubt it. I certainly could be wrong.

The letter was embarrassing, rude, condescending, and overall in very poor form. The extent to which you guys are eating your own who are just trying to follow advice from the Paul campaign and follow the rules in their states is ridiculous. You're calling delegates in Arkansas and Massachusetts traitors. You're waging war against people who have fought for you for months, years, and longer. It's all just very strange.

The letter was awful, Shazad...

... If Mr. Gilbert was a Florida attorney, I might have taken the time to report him to our Bar.

While I have chided you in the past for your sometimes biting, sarcastic wit, Shazad, I find it hard to do so now.

This lawsuit will accomplish nothing... except, perhaps, to give the Federal Government increased control over our political parties. Liberty patriots, be careful what you wish for.

A Constitutional, Christian conservative who voted for Ron and stands with Rand

Shazad

Go back to your modder fucking friends at the Romney campaign.

Hey Shazad, Do you realize

That you have been conversing with single personalities with multiple screen names?
For instancr "4Const" and "AussyCyn".
Dr K just gave it away when he congratulated Ms Kennedy.

Hello Ms Kennedy!
Hello DrK, Khalil etc.

"Beyond the blackened skyline, beyond the smoky rain, dreams never turned to ashes up until.........
...Everything CHANGED !!

Unlike you, spy, no one here is attempting to hide anything

So, we know your m.o. Go away.

I sent in 22 this morning, 6 more came on board from Cali

this weekend that I am aware of, and who am I, and another 40 did it this weekend. About 6 showed up on one meetup and said they got it done before the deadline. So, I personally know of 74 from the weekend if my math is right. I am not a genius, but that is my personal accounting.

I do not know of this 'traitors' comment you are referring to, but I sure have been attacked verbally for supporting the suit. I am not on here often having conversations, but I do post and bump posts. This is not the dailypaul I remember from 2008 where we were a likeminded group coming together for the cause of liberty. The posts on here are mindnumbing and disgraceful. Reminds me of 2007 and convincing those that Dr. Paul was not crazy on youtube.

Very sad to read these things and hear the...for lack of a better term, HATE, that we experienced from the "Paul Haters" for so long.

We all have our way of creating a larger group of liberty minded folks and saving our Constitution, but this is clearly tearing us down and then the media and Corporate Elite, and the Morgans, etc. WIN, they see this division and they are happy.

You will notice that the real trolls are the ones who constantly

"attempt" to commit character assassination. They are the ones who continuously call people names, belittling them. Have yet to meet a real RP supporter, who does this.

They have been trained to do this. It is in their manuals.

Your posts exude the energy of truth and sincerity. Take lightly the personal attacks. It means you are on the right direction.

They were really at it 5 years ago, same tactic, but it always

felt like the dailypaul was to a degree attracting mostly kind, hard-working, freedom lovers. It still is because I know at one time there were something like 35,000 of traffic visiting (?), so a few patronizing, demeaning souls, should not bother me so much. I have been on here for years, posting, bumping and mostly reading, but this lawsuit seemed to me to be one of the last stands, so...I got worn out reading these nasty comments. The term "character assasinations" is a good one and seems to be there only goal.

Spies indeed -

I was wondering when "danton" would show up to make his worthless attacks. I'm still waiting on the other (or maybe they're one and the same) 2 or 3 usual suspects, the ones that usually seem to comment together and keep up-voting each other, while down-voting this topic and the delegates that support it. It's pretty obvious who the spies are.

He has fewer people to "make attacks with" as zhu-ninja

(sp) was kicked off and zdownunder got "talked to" and fonta figured out he has to point his cannon attacks toward "the moon". But I still think he will return along with rhino. Some of them just take longer to "get it".

SequoiaTrees4RonPaul

Ah, that explains a lot.

There were a couple of threads that seem to have been deleted that I was going to reply to as well, but couldn't (403 forbidden). Thanks for the update!

About time that rpfpres, using that newer handle

got the boot. Was wondering what in the world happened to him.

I reallyy cannot understand why danton has his pic posted

on this meetup. I wonder if it is really him. Maybe his momma should have washed his mouth out with soap or tobasco.

How many are actually delegates?

None of the 6 from California are delegates to the convention. How many of the rest are?

robot999's picture

R U

a delegate or alternate to Tampa?

"Government is the entertainment division of the military-industrial complex". - Frank Zappa

nope

But seeing as how not being a delegate doesn't appear to disqualify one from being on the list of plaintiffs, I think it certainly wouldn't disqualify one from sharing an opinion on the lawsuit.

At least 11 I know of are to the national

another 22 were to the state. And that is just me, I know nothing else.

What do you care? You and your Romney buffoons will soon be

pulverized into oblivion. Unlike you, we have work to do here. Freedom fighters don't have time to 'troll' Romney sites, if there are any.