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July 4th 2013 Liberty Day Challenge

Two directions are possible from this moment on as proven by historical precedent. Either be subjected to suffering by Legalized Criminals and be forced to pay all debts collected in that evil enterprise or move in the direction of Liberty.

Make my day.

How about July 4th 2013?

If by that date the American people, as one, have invented, produced, and supplied a number of competitive legal monies, then those American people will take back their power to prosper, at will, for their own and for posterity.

Sign on in spirit or sign on in actual reality, either way the days will move in a direction and the Legal Criminals score their progress with or without your willful participation toward their goal of absolute despotism.

May God have mercy on our souls.

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Government IS

Government is whatever the most powerful force does when it does what it does, it governs, so there needs to be a less ambiguous question of there is going to be a more specific answer.

The concept of calling both Legal Crime and Law by ONE name is a concept that intends to confuse the two, so if a Gary Johnson or a Ron Paul answer any questions concerning government then it may be a good idea to nail down exactly which government they are defining.

God governs, for example.

The people at the FED govern.

The people at the IRS govern.

The people ordering the Military around govern.

Then people in the Military govern.

A juror will govern.

Bonds are governed.

If the question specifies which government is governing then the answer can be useful, instead of misleading.

The National Government was created so as to Consolidate the State Governments and that removes the voluntary, competitive, nature of the National Government, and then liars called it a Federation, or what, a Republic?

What was the purpose of The Articles of Confederation?

I think it was a basic aggreement to combine forces so as to defend against Aggressive Wars for Profit being waged against Liberated people in America. Liberated people who liberated themselves from England, and Europe, did not want the English to un-liberate them.

Joe

Josf, the same OP that wrote

Josf, the same OP that wrote on the Bond Issue put this post up today: http://www.dailypaul.com/259665/its-time-for-ron-paul-to-eit...

Jeff told me there was a whole Law and Order episode about the court room being a ship or foreign entity or something like that. I have read a little in the past some sites about the flag etc and the court room. I don't know, it seems kind of far fetched to me. But I haven't looked at the stuff on the Bond site. I will try to do that better next week. Do you want me to?

Thank you for the answers on the purpose of Govt Question. I think Ron Paul wanted to abolish the EPA if I am remembering correctly. And here you have people jumping on the GJ bandwagon and he supports the EPA. I can't see how people are so easily swayed.

Have a nice evening. Thank you for putting up with me and my fast replies today.

Please read response above

My response to this last offering by bear is posted as a new comment on the top of the page.

Joe

As many solutions as

Grains in the Sand.

Competition

Look what I found:

http://www.dailypaul.com/259174/free-the-planet-by-morning

Link to this:

http://www.1215.org/lawnotes/work-in-progress/bonding-code.htm

Bear, that one defines or discovers the existence of Legal Crime, for all who may not understand the fact of it.

Also here:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1EaV_bU7VImTXVBWEpJb2I4V1E/...

From here:

http://www.dailypaul.com/259249/need-assistance-with-a-response

Joe

504 errors

test

Joe

Test for cause of 504 error

"See I can get into trouble too…when no one is lying to me."

Can I clarify my own story by saying that the lady at the voting table where I voted in the Primary was probably a lady that thought, in her own mind, that the votes would be counted "officially" by the correct "officials" and none of those "terrorists", or any one other than the "officials" would tamper with the votes because the box would be taped shut. So she was not lying to me when she answered my question concerning how can I know that my vote would be counted.

The problem with being lied to would occur as soon as my questions are geared toward figuring out if the person I am talking to is my friend, as a friend of Liberty, or my foe, as a friend of Legal Crime, and this is not "OH, that is just Joe, being Joe." as I've heard so often. When you wake up you realize that the stakes are potentially much higher on this road into absolute despotism, and the failures in our future will cost much more to our own behinds than our failures cause our own behinds now, as we may not be as close to the front of the line that enters the meat grinder right now, but on this road we are next in line eventually.

I find people who begin to show their true color when they begin to contradict themselves with gestures, not just English sentences, so the obvious become obvious sooner when speaking in person than during discussions on forums.

When the obvious becomes obvious there is a complete change in view as the person who was helping me, as that person then becomes the person who is no longer willing to help me.

Let me quote words from you, please? (I will anyway, this is a theatrical way of typing, along the lines of creating a more personal discussion, as I paint the picture of politeness with lyrical devices).

We just saw my daughter perform in her best play to date, and it was a very good show, something that would work very well as helpful entertainment in places where Television wasn't in such high demand, or where Television is in scarce supply (basically or principally the same physical condition of few people watching television and more people finding better things to do).

Your words:

"The part that bothers me the most is that it seems to be done in packs like jackels or piranhas. It is too back [bad] we cannot figure out how to help each other."

I've seen this so often, not just in forums, this goes on in person, and I've already told you of the time before I ran for congress, at a public meeting among supposed Friends of Liberty, sometime between Waco and The Oklahoma City False Flags, during that time of higher profile NEWS concerning "The Militia Movement" and all heads in the room at once turned to me and yelled "NO!" and my words were merely factual, concerning a specific Falsehood that is believed to be true by all but 2 people in that group at that time. My friend was there and he actually had to tell me what had happened since my attention at the time was on communicating, or helping, to know better, and so I was speaking at the time, and everyone else was listening at that point, up until the wall of willful ignorance occurred in each mind.

So, bringing this back to the point in this discussion, the effort to find out if my vote is counted, where the lady at the table told me the box was taped shut, and bringing this discussion back to me finding out (beyond a reasonable doubt) was an effort by me, but not followed through by me, not to the point of finding who begins to actively, and willfully, resort to deceit to shut me up, to cattle prod me back into line, because I had more important things to do at that time, according to my own sense of BALANCE.

God only knows if I a wrong or right, as I think you are teaching me, and other people listening to our discussion, other people who refuse to participate, if such a person does exist, in the dark, my thinking many things all combined into one thing is a thing called a scale, like this:

1.
You are helping me learn true spirituality (one end of the scale)
2.
You are deceiving me with religious dogma (another end of the scale)

Somewhere along that scale is where the truth, as far as I know, works in what I think words teach me. God only knows. I don't. I think you are on the good side of that scale, decidedly NOT on the deceptive side. Whoever else may be judging the accuracy of your viewpoint or my viewpoint does not know either, but they have guesses too. God only knows the truth. We can help each other know better, or NOT. Some of us can resort to deceit, in the effort to make other people believe in falsehoods, and these would be falsehoods that are not "believed" by deceivers, lies are for the victims of lies, lies are not (intentionally) for the liars to succumb to the lies.

We, by our individual employment of our POWER of will, aim to help each other, as we alone can, but ONLY if we listen to what each other has to say, because we know better than to assume that our limited POWER to know better (not even close to God POWER) is subject to great errors in judgment, and therefore we must, you and I, listen to other's viewpoints if there is any hope for us to know better.

Often is the case that an infected (not woken up) person convicts another person of being guilty ON THE SPOT and at that point the judge in the case begins to execute punishment upon the convicted wrongdoer.

How?

Lies.

Lies are told because the infection is such that a "Conspiracy Theorist" is the enemy, and as such this "Conspiracy Theorist" (Terrorist now) can be rightfully lied to, to censor any further damage being done by the "Conspiracy Theorist" (Terrorist).

Do you willfully lie to me?

I'm not talking about any withholding of any personal (none of my business) information. I am talking about specific information that is powerful information whereby you withhold that information or distort that information to keep that information from reaching me?

What I am talking about is criminal censorship which is not to be confused, at all, or ever, with "telling stories" or merely maintaining a healthy boundary between public and personal information.

This goes along the lines of the concept of The First Amendment and the Fire in the Theater concept.

Someone who shouts fire in a crowded theater could cause, by that act, the injury of innocent people as innocent people may be trampled during the mad rush to exist the theater, and that can happen if there is no fire.

That "Fire in the Theater" can be willfully confused with an actor on stage yelling "Fire" in the Theater during the play, as such a PART of the play fits into the play. The audience does not, in unison, run for the exists when the actor plays out the part, but the audience will tend to get up, in unison, to run to the exit, if an official looking person is effectively communicating dire warnings.

So...your words again, in order:

"See I can get into trouble too…when no one is lying to me."

Joe

Reporting at the Top

“Can I clarify my own story by saying that the lady at the voting table where I voted in the Primary was probably a lady that thought, in her own mind, that the votes would be counted "officially"…”

Yes, IMO that is the problem we are facing. People who have for so long thought that everything is on the up and up have a hard time conceiving anything different. I have to tell you, and please do not get mad at me, but I am even having a hard time now not pulling the lever for Romney (outside of the illegitimate voting system situation) because I am so afraid of Obama that it makes me think I have to do choose the lesser of 2 evils. I know that is my old mind set. I know it, and yet the thought plagues me. ***So help me with that if you have some words.*** I dare not mention this in a more public post because I will be lambasted, not helped. But if I don’t say what is going on in my mind, how can a Friend in Liberty help me?

I even told Jeff that I am thinking about not voting this year, he said that would be fine (not that he controls my voting, just I figured he would have some words to persuade me otherwise, but did not). We were even talking about Reagan this morning. He said he had one of those ah-ha moments when Reagan did not show up in person to the Right to Life Rally, but sent a video instead. I don’t remember that, but it was troubling to him. He doesn’t agree with the neocon that stayed with us last week either. Jeff does not think that the US foreign policy should include primitive war because it is said to be in the country’s best interest. He said this morning that that is a never ending trail. He also said while his friend was here that he did not agree that we should be torturing. We actually had a nice conversation this morning. Of course, he is not yet with me on the persistent vapor trails…but who knows, 6 months from now I may hear him talking to someone else about the problem. I did tell him this morning about the hedge betting on the weather and I recalled to his attention that Texas ranchers had issues with weather modification causing Texas drought. He seemed to listen.
----------------------
“…When you wake up you realize that this stakes are potentially much higher on this road into absolute despotism, and the failures in our future will cost much more to our own behinds than our failures cause our own behinds now, as we may not be as close to the front of the line that enters the meat grinder right now.”

So, Joe, what can we do about it? How can we get enough American’s wake up over night? I saw the first Romney/Ryan bumper sticker this morning in our Private Christian School Parking lot. Yesterday on the way to the symphony I saw a car with Jesus stickers and an old Bush/Cheney sticker. It makes me sick that even True Believers are not able to see….after all, I wasn’t able too. I remember Jeff’s mom dissing G.W. while he was President. I didn’t even ask her why…because she is of the left bent. I just figured she was wrong. See how that works?

“We just saw my daughter perform in her best play to date, and it was a very good show,…:

What a joy! I imagine it is wonderful to see her perform and to know she is yours (in the sense she came from you)!
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“…my words were merely factual, concerning a specific Falsehood that is believed to be true by all but 2 people in that group at that time.”

I went on a field trip yesterday to the symphony. Have you ever been to a live symphony? It is wonderful. It was my first time. It was so interesting to hear the different sounds and see which instruments made them. Jeff can pick them out of music without seeing. I cannot. Anyways, After finishing balancing 2 months of checks during the bus ride, my oldest finished his 9/11 book, so since I had nothing to do I read 100 pages of it. The opening chapter gave the background of 9/11 and then the subsequent chapters gave true life rescue accounts.

Jeff asked me what I thought about it. I said, we are no longer re-writing history, but I think it is being written so that it does not have to be re-written. And here is my son reading it at an entertainment level such that his mind will accept the words on the pages without question. I’ve heard Alan Watt speak to the effect that during entertainment the mind is opened to brainwashing since guards are down. After reading the words in the first chapter, I find myself wanting to believe the company line. I was quite proud of myself for reading 100 pages yesterday….until I saw that it was a 3rd grade level.

Joe, what do you think happened on 9/11?
----------------
“1 You are helping me learn true spirituality.
2. Your are deceiving me with religious dogma.”

Joe, with this awakening and JTK education and complete numbness and blankness I have even had my faith shaken. I talked with Jeff about that this week. He said it is a normal thing when everything has been shaken to question everything.

Know this Joe, I have no reason to deceive you. I do not believe I am deceived. I believe with all my heart that the Bible is God’s Word to us and that the Father gave his Son, the Lord Jesus Christ…part of God to pay the penalty of man’s sin because man cannot help but sin. I am not talking about gross sin. I am talking about lying and cheating (which are gross but not like killing and torturing). But haven’t we talked about the cost of all the deceit? We all do things that are wrong. I am not always nice. I am not perfect. Jesus died because we cannot be perfect. He was perfect so he is the only one who could pay for sin because he was sinless.

“Do you willfully lie to me?”

No, Joe, I do not. I may not say everything just right though, but that is not willful. That is humanity. If I see I have made a mistake I own up to it, unless I am too deceived to know I am deceived. I am not perfect.
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“….or merely maintaining a healthy boundary between public and personal information.”

Do you think I achieve that goal ok? I am pretty open an honest. I hope I do not report too much. I haven’t been taking part in forums for years. This is my first time.
-----------------
“This goes along the lines of the concept of The First Amendment and the Fire in the Theater concept.”

Here is an account of that in the life of a Baptist Pastor: “At the end of that year, tragedy struck on 19 October 1856, as Spurgeon was preaching at the Surrey Gardens Music Hall for the first time. Someone in the crowd yelled, "Fire!" The ensuing panic and stampede left several dead. Spurgeon was emotionally devastated by the event and it had a sobering influence on his life. He struggled against depression for many years and spoke of being moved to tears for no reason known to himself.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Spurgeon

I suppose jackals and piranhas yell fire…and thinking of it from your welcome explanation given Solzhenitsyn, it is to silence competition whereby ectropy would exist?

“The Fire is already burning in World War III, and so the warning can be very dire for those who are closest to it.
Lies that are willfully being communicated by actual people right now, or soon, so as to censor those warnings, are not (in my opinion) to be confused with any other distortions of the truth by anyone, for any reason.”

Josf, can you hear the lies?
------------------
“The people who refuse to question the authority of the vote count are HELPING the people who are working to accelerate World War III.”

There seems like so many different avenues to go down. CAFR’s, Vote Count, Ending the Fed, people yelling Fire, making competitive currency…

“Poisoning the water supply and then having the victims pay more for that "privilege"?”

I had a talk with my mom last weekend. I told her water tastes like a swimming pool. You can literally smell the chlorine in it when you put a glass to your lips. I said something to my sister about it and she acknowledged she brings her own well water with her to work. I told my mom that she should go find out why so much chlorine is being put in the water and that just because she turns on the faucet and it is there that doesn’t mean that she should accept it. I said every person in town should go and question the water supply. They are paying for it. Anyways that is very up close and personal when talking about paying for one’s own demise. Paying for poison…I do not see why the people cannot take back their water supply. I suppose you cannot tap into one of those underground desert rivers? It seems to me that people can get their own solar panels, and they should also dig their own wells.
----------
My words:
"The part that bothers me the most is that it seems to be done in packs like jackels or piranhas. It is too back we cannot figure out how to help each other."

How embarrassing…I misspelled jackals and “back” should be “bad.” Yikes

"Your example teaches moderation? Know your own boundaries better? If one Friend of Liberty can help another it won't be by way of deceit, threats, or violent aggression, even in the face of criminal frauds, extortionists, and torturing mass murderers made legal?”

Yes, I see that if we were to help each other we may become that which we abhor…piranhas and jackals…or could it be that we would be dolphins fighting against sharks? I decided lt would take too much time and energy though. I had considered trying to get Friends of Liberty to fight against the injustice of having ID’s voted on instead of ideas. Balance is in order…I have a family…I just don’t have time even though I don't like what I see as injustice, or playing dirty.
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http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/...

Also from that site:

“…And mankind's sole salvation lies in everyone making everything his business; in the people of the East being vitally concerned with what is thought in the West, the people of the West vitally concerned with what goes on in the East. And literature, as one of the most sensitive, responsive instruments possessed by the human creature, has been one of the first to adopt, to assimilate, to catch hold of this feeling of a growing unity of mankind. And so I turn with confidence to the world literature of today - to hundreds of friends whom I have never met in the flesh and whom I may never see.”

We must make all things our business to know and to speak about?
----------------
“Balance is not easy, and you may surprise both of us in reaching that goal, you already surprise me.”

I already surprise you? How is that?

Yes, balance is very difficult for me. I am all or nothing for the most part. I think priorities as well as Boyd’s Observe, Orient, Decide, Act are on the path to balance. I have a difficult time now also because my health is not what I once enjoyed. When I got off the bus yesterday after the field trip I was completely exhausted…wiped out. I asked one of the teachers about my age if she was exhausted, she said she wasn’t. I managed to push thru and get dinner and laundry and 2 loads of dishes, but it was hard. Jeff offered to do dinner, but I did it because I didn't want him to have to do it. But by the time the evening was over I was also able to make banana bread to have ready for breakfast. I am still paying for being so busy with the Wild Game Dinner and getting ready for house company. Those things completely spent me. I am tired today, I am not pushing to much.

In the past, I have even done water exercise to try to build up strength, but I hit a wall. I don’t get more energy when muscle building, I get depleted to the point I cannot function. They say it is fibro myalgia…who knows. Today my arms and legs are just tired for no reason.
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“I have since thought up (competitively) a scenario whereby Ron Paul could be a hoax, or False Flag, or staged event, but that belongs in the deeper realm of Doom Day, which I prefer not to expend too much power onto that path. “

But Joe, isn’t it better to know better sooner than too late? I cannot understand why they let him speak to college campuses and rally so much support, so much so that it could throw an election…if it were not fixed. I am awake, my husband is awake, my mom and pop are awake. Me because of Ron Paul and you, the others because of me (and you and Ron Paul). It seems to me that a Fire of Liberty has been set ablaze. Is it a controlled burn?

Did you hear Alex Jones interview Gary Johnson? Alex Jones even talked about Perot being a Clinton plant. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfiSEPgYFJA&feature=related
----------------
I think Product 1 and Product 2, or applications of such things, can be more useful.

Josf, I hope that you are able to make those things happen. I am glad you are working on them.
-------------
God doesn’t speak to me either like a person speaking to me. God speaks to me thru his written word, and also in a sense of knowing. As a believer. I also have God residing inside of me in the form of the Holy Spirit. The Greek Word is Parakletos. Para = along side or side by side; and kletos = appointed one. Jesus called the Holy Spirit the Comforter. Jesus said it was expedient for him to leave because he would send the Comforter to abide within each Believer.

“I have that check going, that reservation of skepticism, in any word finding its way to me, as I know enough to know that we human beings are not God, so we can fail to know better.”

That is good. Don’t believe words given by a human. Seek God with all your heart. Joe, will you ask Him to reveal himself to you?

Jeremiah 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

I pray for you that you will be able to see.

...

Accountability

" But if I don’t say what is going on in my mind, how can a Friend in Liberty help me?"

Your vote of sending Federal Reserve Notes to the National Government is the actual vote that counts, it seems to me, so whatever you do with the other counterfeit vote, the votes that won't be counted, is superfluous at best, and counterproductive in a measurable way, as you could have done something useful with the time you spend considering and then actually voting in the National Election Psycho.

You are actually playing with psychopaths, and that is the fact of the matter, in any way you may want to measure it, it ends up being participation in torture and mass murder made legal.

To me there will be a judgement day and on that day the vote you cast in Federal Reserves Notes sent to the National Legal Crime Cabal will count much more than your frivolous mark being placed on an official sounding National Election computer screen, or card, or paper ballot, but they both will say the same thing.

You lend moral and material support to torture and mass murder made legal and not just one person tortured once, legally, and not just one murder victim murdered once, since the scale of these crimes makes Hitler and the Nazi crimes pale in comparison since, as you have been shown already, it is the same process that was used to finance both Hitler and Stalin, and therefore the body counts are accountable to those specific people who invent, produce, and maintain (lending moral and material support) to that most egregious crime made legal that can be known by many names, such as The Dollar Hegemony, while it is denominated in dollars, or the World Bank, or the World Reserve Currency Power, or The New World Order, or Legal Crime, whichever word accounts most accurately.

Again, to me, your vote for Romney is pathetic compared to the flow of Federal Reserve Notes that flow from you, and all the other honest productive people, flowing to Legal Crime Central, so...

Who cares who you vote for in the staged, false front, National Election Fraud?

Not me, but I won't be the one inspecting your records on Judgment Day, so....

Buttons?

I have to sew one on my one good shirt, and I have to sew a pocket back one of my son's good shirts.

So...

What is really important, now that we have spoken about the pathetic stuff?

1.
End the FED competitively (not by replacing it with something worse)
2.
End the IRS competitively (same qualification)
3.
Bring the Troops Home (not to enforce submission to the new World Reserve Currency Power and not to enforce submission to the old one)

Romney?

What do I care?

Stupid is what stupid does?

Phrases in English?

Holes in paper?

Zeros stored on a hard drive?

Make more tomato jars and raise the kids to know better, they may need that effort by you in their future?

"But if I don’t say what is going on in my mind, how can a Friend in Liberty help me?"

Here again is how honesty works so much more competitively than dishonesty. What is the point? I can't vote for Romney, I do not want that to haunt me for the slightest increment of time, never mind for eternity.

If criminals hire a better liar to lie for them, what business is it of mine?

If Ron Paul is on the ballot, I have a reason to vote, because he may work toward ending the fed, the irs, and bringing the troops home.

Lesser of two evils dogma does not work on my conscience. I know better, and you should too.

If I am wrong, then someone, somewhere, could lay it out in a reasonable way, so even I could see where I am wrong.

No such thing has even come close, so far, in my travels.

Evil is evil. Stop supporting it and it will be supported less, and how can that not be obvious, and accurately measurable?

"He seemed to listen."

Please, yes, listen, and either improve the viewpoint or fail to improve it, but at least try to improve the viewpoint, instead of dismissing it, for what, in the hopes that it will go away?

If we were farmers and we found out our soil was gaining aluminum, barium, and other things, and that the PH was turning acidic, would hopping that it goes away do any good?

Who needs food?

Who cares?

Who cares enough to do something about any of these problems that are all linked by the same ONE THING which is that Dollar Unit of Legal Extortion, Fraud, and the required torture and mass murder that must accompany it for it to perpetuate?

I can't get far from the obvious solutions and I have my own competitive ideas as to how to accomplish those solutions.

1.
End the FED
2.
End the IRS
3.
Bring the Troops Home

Wishing that it goes away does not help make it go away.

"So, Joe, what can we do about it? How can we get enough American’s wake up over night?"

You answered that question already.

"He seemed to listen."

I've been at it longer. Seeds are planted. Nothing is done deceitfully. Nothing is done threateningly. Nothing is done violently when working on informing other people so that other people either know better or YOU know better with their help.

The solution is not in my power (alone) to execute, even if I think I know the solution.

Stop providing the means by which we suffer, yourself, and maybe your efforts to do so, which may or may not work, will inspire other people to copy the example or improve upon it.

Liberty works one way.

Legal Crime works another way.

When the Friends of Liberty fight Legal Criminals the Legal Criminals are the offenders, and the Friends of Liberty are the Defenders, if it comes to that, and it has in the past, so this is not NEWS.

"I didn’t even ask her why…because she is of the left bent. I just figured she was wrong. See how that works?"

In a dark room there will be a lot of stumbling around?

"Joe, what do you think happened on 9/11?"

The buildings were loosing money, so they had to be destroyed, the people who destroyed them made a profit, and the fact that they destroyed them with a lot of people in them was even more profitable for the criminals who destroyed them, since they could then make money on the aggressive wars for profit that was launched by falsely blaming innocent people for the crime of destroying those building while people were still in 2 of them. The third building was evacuated.

Afghanistan was on the list of place to destroy with aggressive war because of the opium that is grown in Afghanistan and because of the need to use the place to transport petroleum products, oil and natural gas, through it.

The demolition of those buildings on that day was a classic case of a False Flag operation, no different than dressing up as Indians, slaughtering White Settlers, blaming the slaughter of White Settlers on the neighboring Indians, so as to slaughter the Indians, and then take over control of the land that is occupied by the Indians.

This is not news, and the evidence of controlled demolition is uncontroversial, mere fact, there is no other way that buildings can fall at that speed that those buildings fell, near the rate of gravitational acceleration or Free Fall. No way.

It is an unambiguous case of willful premeditated murder for profit.

If you were on a Jury, real Jury not a counterfeit one, you could ask anyone whose profession is relevant to the case, and you could judge the case on professional evidence discovered during the case, and then actual people could be held accountable for those crimes.

No such thing has happened.

Why?

The NEWS (entertainment?) has many people blaming Osama Bin Laden?

Osama Bin Laden isn't even a suspect in reality.

The event is as farcical as was Legalized Slavery made officially legal with The Constitution, the Whiskey Rebellion, The Alien and Sedition Acts, The War of 1812, The Andrew Jackson attempted murder, The Civil War, The Lincoln Murder, The Gulf of Tonkin fraud, The Kennedy Murders, The Randy Weaver massacre, the Waco torture and massacre, the Oklahoma City massacre, Persistent Vapor Trails, and now this 911 farce?

Who is kidding who?

I'm not fooled.

I may be a fool, but those things are uncontroversial, there is an "official" lie, and then there are actual people making their crimes legal, people with names, people having reasons, people making profits, actual accounts, actual money trails, so on and so forth, discoverable facts were a Trial by Jury in force and applied to the actual criminals by the victims or by Friends of Liberty.

Due process of law only due in the form of taking productive power from productive people and then using that stolen loot to steal more?

I had a thought on this involving the concept of Mob Rule and illustrated with the Vampire story, but this is already a very long reply.

"...I have even had my faith shaken."

How can you remain faithful if you do not resolve contradictions that may appear to be contradictions in time? You are not God, so you will not know everything, and I thought that faith was earned, not handed to you on a silver platter, am I mistaken?

"But haven’t we talked about the cost of all the deceit?"

The rubber meets the road? The thin blue line? How can you know the difference between fact and fiction, given the demonstrable fact that we can be deceived?

I don't know. I am not God. I have to question my own judgment, failure to do so is ludicrous, deceitful, threatening, and can place me in violent situations - if I am not careful enough to question my own judgement where and when I can still afford to do so in time.

"I have no reason to deceive you."

I trust you on your word, innocent until proven guilty, and so far there is no evidence that suggests any effort on your part to deceive anyone, as far as I can tell.

___________________________________________
“….or merely maintaining a healthy boundary between public and personal information.”

Do you think I achieve that goal ok? I am pretty open an honest. I hope I do not report too much. I haven’t been taking part in forums for years. This is my first time.
_____________________________________________

That is your sphere of influence, your control, your judgement, not mine. I can say that I think we, as people, aught to express ourselves more, not less, and let the chips fall as they may, since the Sounds of Silence, to me, are deafening.

"I suppose jackals and piranhas yell fire…and thinking of it from your welcome explanation given Solzhenitsyn, it is to silence competition whereby ectropy would exist?"

Here is where I get my clues in figuring out the genuine articles, the real deals, the true Friends of Liberty, as their DATA, their MEDIUMS OF EXCHANGE, their MONEY, reaches the same or similar conclusions, as my own study. We may be wrong, of course.

Think about it.

What would happen in a world where no one could communicate anything with anyone else ever?

The problem with connectivity is such that destructive things can travel as well as productive things, and if someone were to confuse destructive things with productive things they may BLAME the medium of exchange, because they fail to judge accurately concerning what is being transferred.

This is very well illustrated with the concept of a species killing virus that rapidly spreads from one person to another person, from one city to another city, one continent to another continent.

What happens if everyone thinks that the virus is the cure?

There is no hope, we all die quickly as each person is working ever faster to get the cure, but the cure is the virus.

What is that in other words?

I keep repeating the same thing.

"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one: for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries BY A GOVERNMENT, which we might expect in a country WITHOUT GOVERNMENT, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer."

When the people who are being destroyed by despotism (Legal Crime) wake up: they then stop seeking the virus as if the virus can cure them.

Legal Criminals know this, and so they make sure that those ideas do not become current, those ideas do not gain currency, and instead of those ideas gaining currency, a virus called Falsehood is made current, gaining currency, through such things as Television, which is almost an ideal Medium of Exchange for Dictators (Legal Criminals).

What is a Legal Money Monopoly Power?

When human beings stop seeking the virus, as if it was the cure, they will look back at this time and they will wonder, as we wonder about the people in Germany during the Nazi regime, "what were they thinking?".

"I want to vote for Romney"?

What were they thinking?

It is pathological.

I can link another 3 books that you do not have the time to read.

"Josf, can you hear the lies?"

You want to vote for Romney?

Sure, I can hear the lies. It is pathological.

It is very unfortunate.

"There seems like so many different avenues to go down. CAFR’s, Vote Count, Ending the Fed, people yelling Fire, making competitive currency…"

I am not God either, so I have to question my own judgement all the time, but I do have an advantage, I suppose, in an ability to multitask, so I can enjoy those things that make me happy even while I work on The Problem (of self government).

"I suppose you cannot tap into one of those underground desert rivers?"

The Pacific Gas and Electric PG&E Case has many answers along those lines, including the documentation of how underground rivers connect on maps for specific areas.

This is a good place to go off on another subject concerning my Product 1 and Product 2 ideas, the practicality of it, but again the word count is looming large.

"Balance is in order…I have a family…I just don’t have time even though I don't like what I see as injustice, or playing dirty."

Spirituality, it seems to me, is the missing element that is needed for that balance.

I spent my life, my power, making rocks and sand for construction, for the most part, the productive physical part of my life, and what would I have done had I been more balanced, more productive, better, more connected with the concept of morality, productivity, spirituality?

God only knows and I'm going to be clued in on Judgement Day?

God is not done with me yet?

"We must make all things our business to know and to speak about?"

To me the principle at work there is the concept of any willful injury to anyone by anyone is an injury to everyone. The innocent victim on the table being tortured right now is not happening in your kitchen, and the fact that it isn't happening in your kitchen is merely incidental. You are next. You are paying for that torture, so you are next, unless you hire on as the torturer, and even then you are only delaying your turn on the torture table, there will always be a more powerful criminal to take your place when the number of ready victims become scarce.

That is the Might makes Right scenario. We each eat each other until there are two of us left.

Then what?

"We must make all things our business to know and to speak about?"

Yes if it concerns injuries to innocent people, no if it does not concern injuries to innocent people. Who is "we"?

"I already surprise you? How is that?"

I've been at this for decades, then you show up. Can you imagine my surprise?

"I think priorities as well as Boyd’s Observe, Orient, Decide, Act are on the path to balance."

Without morality, or spirituality, whatever word works best, the Decide part is directionless or will the decide part be directed by evil?

Shake up your faith, sure, but then what?

Flip a coin?

I don't think so, but you can still surprise.

"I am tired today, I am not pushing to much."

I can sympathize. I can not empathize, I don't have that in me. I can reply with my visit to my mother today, where she is fighting between the loss of mental power with morphine or the loss of mental power with pain, and she says: "I know other people are worse off that me". She is no angel either.

Relative to what?

What is the scale?

God is not done with us?

I have chores (to be continued and possibly edited - if this publishes - reminding me to cut and paste it to word)

"It seems to me that a Fire of Liberty has been set ablaze. Is it a controlled burn?"

To me this falls again into the category of two different worlds where you and I are targets because we produce more than we consume, and that is uncontroversial if there is a net sheet known as the Federal Tax "Liabilities", and our world is driven by equitable thoughts and actions, The Golden Rule, morality, spirituality, whatever word works best in any case in this type of productive world, our world, where we have less at the start of the day and we have more at the end of the day, on average, over time, while the other world is Might making Right, or Falsehood, Lies, Threats, and Violence, taking and using what is taken to take more, so you can try to figure out from our world what their world is like, but seriously, it is another world, so you can, at best, guess, and you can borrow from other people, Confessions of a Monopolist by Frederic Clemson Howe, or Confessions of an Economic Hit Man by John Perkins, Money Masters, whatever, the pieces start fitting into an understandable viewpoint, but how far from your world is that world?

Liberty is a POWER struggle as long as there are criminals who use deceit, threats, and violence as they injure innocent people anywhere.

Of course it is a controlled burn, but who, what, and where are people aggressively, willfully, burning other people, for fun and profit?

Whose business is it that Liberty is being burned out on purpose?

Is there false examples of Liberty being invented, produced, and maintained by Legal Criminals to divide and conquer those who would be effective at defending Liberty had the fake stuff not been in place to burn out defensive power as defensive power is thereby shunted, wasted, spent doing nothing or worse?

What do you think The Constitution is?

So Ron Paul says The Constitution is good?

If so then he is deceived. Does he? I think he says that Limited Government is better than unlimited government, and a Constitutional Limited Government is good, and so there is room to understand that Ron Paul means well, and is not deceived and he is also careful in making sure that he does not deceive anyone else.

How would you know a friend of liberty if one fell out of the sky?

"Did you hear Alex Jones interview Gary Johnson? Alex Jones even talked about Perot being a Clinton plant."

Alex Jones is a competitive News Reporter. He offers sources that the customers who buy his News Reports (or consume them for "free") which is a whole lot more than Entertaining "NEWS" does, but the Ross Perot event, as far as I know, was too damaging to Legal Crime to be anything other than damaging to Legal Crime.

I don't think a Legal Criminal would ever allow such as thing, as the Ross Perot thing, to happen if it can be avoided. A baseline was set, back when the National Debt was merely 4 Trillion, if I remember right, and now there is another ZERO added to that tally.

When is enough enough?

How do you know if you don't count?

Was all that Ross Perot and Ron Paul stuff staged?

Sure, it can be that, so as to usher in World War III, and the plan could not work as well without those adjustments made to the aggregate power of "public opinion".

I suppose.

I does not add up to me. I don't have the most powerful Legal Crime strategy ledger. I can certainly be wrong.

"That is good. Don’t believe words given by a human. Seek God with all your heart. Joe, will you ask Him to reveal himself to you?"

How is that not the same thing as curiosity? We do not see the same way, but I don't think the differences are of any great significance, not, for example, as different as us being compared with someone who employes deceit, threats of violence, and violence to get what they want from innocent victims, you know, voters in a National Election.

What do you think they want to get with their votes, not that they will get anything they want, but what is the driving principle as far as you can tell?

"I pray for you that you will be able to see."

I meditate, or just sit and listen, or whatever you want to call it when I am asking for greater understanding so that I can know better.

It may be correct to conclude that allowing these long posts to get too far down the list on this Topic is a factor in my having trouble with the forum error messages.

Joe

2 posts combined into 1

ME: "Joe, is there anything wrong with loaning money out of one’s garage other than the fact that certain banks will not make the interest?"

YOU: “So, logically, if you do that out of your garage, who is going to ever use your money?”

Seems to me if the money is good it doesn’t matter where it comes from. I can loan money (not much) out of my garage. The only reason I wouldn’t do it is because I am afraid I wouldn’t get it back. I rather give it away because then I am not worried about getting it back. LOL. But seriously, isn’t loaning money out of a garage just a private loan? What is wrong with private loans? Maybe I am stuck in the dollar hegemony?
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“What are the remaining possibilities once those three things are avoided?”

Things that produce ectropy?

“How is it that we human beings know so much when our time on earth is so busy and limited?
It is reciprocal transfers of accurate and productive information, not dictatorial, when speaking about the connections from one human being to another, whereby each person does not have to make the same mistakes and each person does not have to invent, produce, and maintain everything required for increasing standards of living and decreasing costs of living.”

This discussion makes me think of the words you offered from Solzhenitsyn concerning the subject of the free flow of information.

So in summary you are saying (and I am writing this out so I you can know if I am understanding correctly and perhaps me writing it will solidify it in my memory):

The power struggles concerns deceit, lies and violence such that it blocks the free flow of information from human to human so that the Legal Criminals retain power thus keeping the benefits of ectropy from the innocent so that they do not garner too much power. The benefit of having 100 options to work from outside of deceit lies and violence would result in ectropy for the innocent? Joe’s Law? Are those 100 options power that can be produced into oversupply?
_______________________________________________________
RE Natural Law/Word of God: “To me they are the same thing and I don't get to define what they are, because God defines what they are, not me. Natural law is the same thing as that which God does, and so as far as I am concerned you can interchange one term with the other term as you see fit.
If you see any cause for contention concerning a reference I make about Natural Law as being against the word of God then I'd appreciate clarifications concerning any contention or contradiction along those lines.”
--------------------------
I asked you those questions for the same reason when early on I asked you what God you were referring to who helped you find your wife. I am trying to solidify terms in my mind. When I say Word of God, I am referring ONLY to the Bible. So I am trying to understand what those words, “Word of God” mean to you. Just like when you say “God” you are saying “Truth.” When I say God, I am saying Yahweh, Jehovah, Creator, Jesus…a defined being. I was not asking out of contention, I was asking so I can understand and interpret your words correctly in my mind.

I would say Natural Law in certain terms would be the conscience given to us by God. However, the problem is the conscience can become seared or hardened. So man cannot be the determiner of natural law. Perhaps when Jesus says to love your neighbor that is natural law? Love? Could love be the dividing line? Then of course I suppose one would have to define love? The Bible holds all of those definitions.

I do not see the Bible as words of men:

• 2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

• 1 Thessalonians 2:13 KJV
For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word Joof God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe .
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“In fact the first Gulf war included a scenario where Dick Cheney supposedly threw out the battle plan by General Schwarzkopf and Cheney (a very smart person if not a good person) hired Boyd to run that war.”

Josf, are you saying Cheney was a good person? A lot of people on the DP say he was evil and hold him responsible for the 9/11 deaths, etc. and I think war profiteering
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“There is a very interesting video of Boyd called as a witness in a hearing in Congress concerning this subject matter of how the bad guys are driven by profits, at the expense of anyone, and they care not how many have to suffer, compared to actual, honorable, military specialists who care enough to minimize the losses on any side, in any engagement. “

Do you have the link handy? If not, do not spend time, I will look for it.

***What would you like to talk about? I feel as if I am rambling nonsense as I did yesterday. No need to waste time on nonsense.***

Speaking of Yesterday, I am going to throw that reply down here and try to get everything into a single string. I am not doing much physical today (Jeff knows I am resting) so I have time today. I realize you do not have the same available time, so just answer what and when you are able. I moved the next segment to the top of the topic so you might see it sooner than later as to me it may be the most important words I offer.
-----------------------
"I know other people are worse off that me"

I am sorry your mother is in pain. Pain is horrible. Morphine is helpful, but yes, it dulls the pain and it dulls the senses. Josf, I do empathize. I know the pain the requires morphine, while I do not know the pain your mother must endure. Mine was short lived and I got better. I am sorry, Joe, for your mother. Josf, do you know anyone you can trust to speak to her of Jesus? I do not say that lightly or threateningly, but with deep care and sincerity. Josf, Jesus loves your mother. He died for her, even on her death bed or bed of affliction, which ever it may be. Joe, I think even you might know how to speak to her of Jesus, even if you do not accept it as truth. That being said, it sounds like I am advocating deception. I am not. I am grasping at straws, and you are the only straw I know in Cali.
--------------------
“You are actually playing with psychopaths, and that is the fact of the matter, in any way you may want to measure it, it ends up being participation in torture and mass murder made legal.”

I watched a DP Bob Powell offering today. http://www.dailypaul.com/259351/the-us-is-governed-by-psycho... I had to cover the screen, but he talked about psycopaths. I didn’t want to see the murder of Gadhafi again today. I have already seen, I do not need to see again. I don’t know why he persists in showing…maybe because it needs to be shown for people like me to wake up? What do you think Joe? Have you heard of Bob Powell?

I listened to Ron Paul yesterday from the 13th, much more uplifting. He says pretty much a lot of what you say. He even talked about getting the votes counted and ending the IRS. Someone asked him whether Romney was better than Obama. He said no. Obama may be better in some ways and Romney may be better in some ways (though I don’t think he called them psychopaths). It was helpful to hear him. http://www.dailypaul.com/259031/ron-paul-a-major-event-could...
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“To me there will be a judgement day and on that day the vote you cast in Federal Reserves Notes sent to the National Legal Crime Cabal will count much more than your frivolous mark being placed on an official sounding National Election computer screen, or card, or paper ballot, but they both will say the same thing.”

Matthew 17:24 And when they [Jesus and his disciples] were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute [tax] money came to Peter, and said , Doth not your master pay tribute? 25 He saith , Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying , What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers? 26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free. 27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up ; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take , and give unto them for me and thee.

And here: Matthew 22:17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? 18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said , Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites? 19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny. 20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? 21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's. 22 When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way

You could say that Jesus paid for his own execution. You could also say, that since our money has other men’s pictures on it representing the US government that we are to give the government what is theirs. However, since we, humans, bear the image of God, so we are supposed to give ourselves to God.

Whenever I bring up taxes to Jeff, he brings up Matthew 22. Then I bring up Matthew 17 and say when God gives me a coin in a fish’s mouth I’ll send that as my taxes. /sarc

I suppose though, that that is the other ingenious of Warren’s Labor Dollars, because they bore the symbol of the author of that labor so therefore that money did not belong to “Caesar.”
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“Again, to me, your vote for Romney is pathetic compared to the flow of Federal Reserve Notes that flow from you, and all the other honest productive people, flowing to Legal Crime Central, so...”

Thank you Joe, that again brings it to the most basic level. I can see that I get my mind set on the wrong thing. The right thing is the Federal Reserve Notes and the Validity of County the Vote.
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“If criminals hire a better liar to lie for them, what business is it of mine?”

Those words are profound! I have a good mind to start a favorite quotes page on the DP and add my favorites from Joe Kelley. I actually thought of that the other day and it came back today as I read that question above.

Joe, the Libertarians want people to vote for Johnson so that they will get 5% of the vote and be eligible for ballot entry as well as federal campaign dollars…in the billions, and to give the people a “valid” 3rd party option. What do you think?
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RE: 9/11 How did they get people to fly planes into buildings to achieve the false flag and demolition for profit as well as wars for profit?

“The NEWS (entertainment?) has many people blaming Osama Bin Laden?
Osama Bin Laden isn't even a suspect in reality.”

Yes, in the 3rd grade book the Seal account of Osama’s death and quick burial “after identification” at sea was set out in stone (or black ink on white pages) for my son to believe. I have not talked with him about that book…I don’t know what to say intelligibly to a 10 year old. After all I read Anne Frank’s Diary when I was his age…I guess to solidify WWII and the death of Jews and the necessity of Zionism in my mind.

I knew that burial at sea was ridiculous when I heard it on the msm…the same way Kennedy’s Martha’s Vineyard Plane Crash and is quick burial at sea was suspicious.
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“I had a thought on this involving the concept of Mob Rule and illustrated with the Vampire story, but this is already a very long reply.”

That is what I mean about my rambling. I am rambling so much so that the post is too long answering my rambling that to add your creative thoughts makes it unbearable in length. How can we fix that? Certainly I have questions and you know “who” I ask, so I am glad you will answer, but I don’t want to stifle your contributions with mine.
-----------------
“…I thought that faith was earned, not handed to you on a silver platter, am I mistaken?”

Faith is a gift. A gift cannot be earned:

Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it [faith] is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast .

• However faith is fuel that causes us to do things that may make us look like we are earning faith: James 2:18 Yea, a man may say , Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

That gift of faith is what enables a person to take up his cross:

• Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

But you see, I cannot just decide to do that. I have been chosen to do that:

• John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain : that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

And I have been given everything I need to accomplish the task:

• Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
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“I trust you on your word, innocent until proven guilty, and so far there is no evidence that suggests any effort on your part to deceive anyone, as far as I can tell.”

Josf, that makes me feel like I am continually on trial. Like if I make a mistake I am all the sudden guilty. Like when I said I felt you were hanging me out to dry as I felt you were mocking me being a born again Christian but coming to the table with nothing to offer because I was having issues with connecting dots. I either am or am not innocent. I am not waiting for you to make yourself not innocent so I cannot understand this line of thinking. I suppose I embrace everyone…that is a problem when at war because there are those who purposefully deceive. I just don’t know those kind of people so I never think about it.
___________________________________________
RE Government: “When the people who are being destroyed by despotism (Legal Crime) wake up: they then stop seeking the virus as if the virus can cure them.”

Again, more profound words.
----------------
“I can link another 3 books that you do not have the time to read.”

Josf, I save your book links. Someday maybe I will be in the mood to read.
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ME: "Josf, can you hear the lies?"
“You want to vote for Romney?
Sure, I can hear the lies. It is pathological.
It is very unfortunate.”

I can’t even identify the lies when I am writing them. How absurd! Do you laugh at me or pull your hair out?
----------------------------
“I am not God either, so I have to question my own judgement all the time, but I do have an advantage, I suppose, in an ability to multitask, so I can enjoy those things that make me happy even while I work on The Problem (of self government).”

Is that what you mean when you speak of Balance? Multitasking and compartmentalizing?
------------------
Again, I have stifled you with all my words: “This is a good place to go off on another subject concerning my Product 1 and Product 2 ideas, the practicality of it, but again the word count is looming large.”
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“Spirituality, it seems to me, is the missing element that is needed for that balance.”

What do you mean by those words?

“I spent my life, my power, making rocks and sand for construction, for the most part, the productive physical part of my life, and what would I have done had I been more balanced, more productive, better, more connected with the concept of morality, productivity, spirituality?
God only knows and I'm going to be clued in on Judgement Day?
God is not done with me yet?”

Joe, you will not be able to stand on judgment day apart from Jesus Christ. You are describing this: Isaiah 64:6 6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away .
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“Without morality, or spirituality, whatever word works best, the Decide part is directionless or will the decide part be directed by evil?”

That is covered by priorities in this order: Priorities: My relationship with God, My relationship with my Family, My relationship with others…a problem is my that physical inabilities get in the way of my priorities even when I may have the best intentions.
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How would you know a friend of liberty if one fell out of the sky?

I am so paranoid…and I tell you I do not want to be on trial as being innocent…I suppose I have certain people on trial as being guilty when their deeds profess innocence. Iy is just that everything is not what I thought it to be, so I feel like all the stage players are suspect.
------------------------
“How is that not the same thing as curiosity? We do not see the same way, but I don't think the differences are of any great significance…”

The difference is major:

I Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;4Who will have all men to be saved , and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

I believe there is one mediator, Jesus Christ, my ransom from sin, who grants me access to God. From what I can ascertain, You believe you stand and have access on your own. If I did not say those words I would be employing deceit by not speaking the whole truth, and for that I would be judged.

...

504 Gateway Errors again

I went to do some Chores, and then I came back to finish my reply (below) to that reply (above) and now I'm back into 504 Gateway Timeout Errors.

So...

I'll play the guitar some, and finish chores.

Joe

Essense of Legal Crime

"But seriously, isn’t loaning money out of a garage just a private loan? What is wrong with private loans? Maybe I am stuck in the dollar hegemony?"

The point there is that only ONE person, or one group of people called a "Corporate Person" (Legal Fiction) has the POWER to commit Fraud. You don't.

If you are jobless, and you are looking for work, and you decide to get into the "private" loan for hire business, you are up against a POWER that overpowers your competitive edge.

You can offer honest money.

Who would not prefer honest money over money that is fraudulent?

No one.

The only ones who would prefer to employ fraudulent money instead of honest money are in on the deal, or they too are criminals, and they get their piece of the action, and that is why they join the Club of Legal Criminals, because it is in their best interest to Join'em, because it is not profitable to Beat'em, at their game.

What is their game?

Fraud.

You can't compete at their game. You can't be a better fraud. They have the Legal Fraud business sewed up. They have cornered the market in Legalized Fraud - counterfeiting.

You can compete in the honest money business but only at a lower level, because the Frauds have made their crimes Legal, and therefore you can be fined, or imprisoned, by Legal Criminals, if you begin to gain market share in the "Private" loan business.

Too wordy?

"Things that produce ectropy?"

Yes, and another way of saying that, with English symbols, is to say that the total sum of things people can do once people stop employing deceit upon each other, and once people stop employing threats of violence upon each other, and once people stop employing aggressive violence upon each other: amoral and moral behavior.

Amoral behavior can be neither ectropy nor entropy, it is only moral or immoral relative to what could have been done instead of amoral behavior.

Productive behavior is productive behavior when the start of the day can be a total sum productive POWER of X and at the end of the day the total sum productive POWER is X+1, and that can be considered to be ectropy, or moral behavior, such as cooperation, equity, division of labor, specialization, where economies of scale work, where 1 person acting morally and another person acting morally do not add up to 2 people acting morally, the increase in MORAL POWER is exponential, more than the sum of the individual parts.

X + 1 is not as "good" as X + 10 at the end of the day, so what explains the "betterness" of the total sum of productive power increase during that day?

Someone did nothing that day? Someone resorted to deceit that day? Someone resorted to threats of violence that day? Someone made torture and mass murder legal that day?

Does that make sense?

"The power struggles concerns deceit, lies and violence such that it blocks the free flow of information from human to human so that the Legal Criminals retain power thus keeping the benefits of ectropy from the innocent so that they do not garner too much power. The benefit of having 100 options to work from outside of deceit lies and violence would result in ectropy for the innocent? Joe’s Law? Are those 100 options power that can be produced into oversupply?"

Exactly, in English words or symbols, and this is the stuff that cannot be allowed to gain currency. Your paragraph above is honest currency. There is a demand for it, the same demand that all people want and need, which is "security of person and property" against loss, and all things being relative, less POWER is not as good as more POWER when you need the POWER to "secure person and property".

When I say property I do not mean ownership, I mean USE, such as you use oxygen, food, shelter, information, to survive, and without access to that property where you USE that property: you die.

Your stay on Earth ends, and God is done with you as a living being.

What happens after that is not my field of study, and not my Understanding, not my Power to know better.

So...you now invent, produce, and maintain those paragraphs, you may have been in the garage when you "understood", and so you are now loaning (or giving away) those products, those paragraphs, where your understanding can flow out to other people as currency. You are selling currency now. Your price is below cost. You are dumping your money onto the open market, your paragraphs reach me, I'm buying them, the price is unbeatable.

No one else is buying your money?

Not yet?

Why?

You are in competition with a POWER that is criminal, very evil, the worst evil ever, so don't, please don't, consider your work to be worthless under those market conditions.

What happens if you do end up producing a product that is in high demand and your money, your paragraphs, gain a lot of currency?

There are examples. I linked you too Assassination Politics by Jim Bell. Jim Bell went to prison.

Those people in Waco, they were too competitive for the Monopoly Power to be allowed to exist.

How about this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHkQNjPoVCU&feature=related

It happens all the time, ongoing stuff, people invent, produce, and maintain a product, arrangements of sound (speech), or arrangements of symbols (words), and true or not those product gain currency, many people start paying attention, and true or not those words threaten the power held by evil people, something is then done to Monopolize that POWER to Corner that Market.

Which way does the pendulum swing?

Joe's law:

Productive Power Produced into oversupply reduces the price of Productive Power WHILE purchasing power increases, because Productive Power reduces the cost of producing Productive Power.

or

What happens when power is abundant?

That is one way the pendulum swings, assuming of course that people choose to be good, and they choose not to resort to deceit, and they choose not to resort to threats of violence, and they choose only to resort to deceit or violence (threats don't work, but deterrence may work) against criminals (which brings up the need to understand the concept of innocence and the difference between offense and defensive violence).

What happens when the pendulum swings the other way?

Reverse Joe's Law:

Destructive Power (crime against the innocent, deceit, threats of violence, and aggressive per-meditated violence upon the innocent) produced into oversupply INCREASES the price of all power (all power becomes scarce) while purchasing power decreases, because the cost of producing anything increases as everything is being destroyed.

Look at Russia under Stalin, and then after "Communism", look at any enforced, per-meditated, planned, "depression" which is merely the down part of the Business Psycho, whereby the Legal Monopoly Money Power purposefully makes the One Legal Money scarce relative to when the Legal Monopoly Money Power purposefully makes the One Legal Money abundant.

All things are relevant.

Joe

Liberty Days

http://www.chooseliberty.org/memberdirective_2012_2.aspx?pid...

Consider Checking out the link and commenting if possible.

Joe

A Faster Song for Sunday

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghC3gqNQJPQ

While traveling with the boys in the car this week I tried to listen for a faster song LOL. WE beat me up yesterday, but I am still smiling. I guess I can understand better now what it means to know better...as if you didn't already know. I guess sometimes one has to find out on their own to know better. Have a great day, Joe.

Honestly,

I don't know what to think. I somehow got added to the C4L mailing list when I contributed to Dr. Paul's campaign. Since then I have received phone calls and emails from them. When I donated to Dr. Paul's presidential campaign I did not know I was going to be added to the C4L mailing list. It is somewhat irritating to be added to a list without being told exactly why. When I started receiving their emails I had never even heard of the group. I didn't know if it was on the up and up or not.

I got the letter in the mail this week mirroring that website and asking me for a contribution as well as a vote for the items which they should fund because they do not have enough funds to complete all of the objectives.

The letter was sat aside and probably will not be completed. I may not have given it another thought if you hadn't posted the website. I don't have a bunch of money to throw around.

I don't know John Tate, and I do not know Campaign for Liberty.

I only know that I have been supportive of Dr. Paul. I suppose I am a cult follower because if he personally does not address me with the fact that I need to be involved in C4L and why, I probably will not participate.

I have seen a lot of negative stuff about C4L here on the DP, but who knows if that is done by friends or enemies of Liberty. I don't.

What do you think, Joe?

...

3 things

1. End the FED (competitively)
2. End the IRS (competitively)
3. Bring the Troops Home from Legal Crime (or stop sending them into it)

When C4L was speaking at the Reno Liberty Conference, as far as I know, they were working #1 on that list above, but now I looked at the link, and I saw no reason to add my 2 cents to the new list of things they are doing.

Joe

5 Page Letter

Dear bear :)

This year, you and I have seen Audit the Fed pass the House, only to be stalled in the Senate. We have seen our numbers grow on both sides of the aisle in opposition to the so-called "Patriot" Act and the NDAA, only to fall just a bit short.

Our movement has shown its strength all year, both in Congress and in STATE AFTER STATE across the country.

Now is not the time to give up.. In fact, you and I are on the verge of some truly historic moments for Liberty, if we can focus our efforts clearly in the next weeks and months.

As Dr. Paul noted, he is back at the helm of Campaign for Liberty after his leave to run for President. And he has given us some truly daunting goals for this fall and beyond.

Will you stand with Dr. Paul and Campaign for Liberty today as we move forward in these historic battles?

The November elections are no just weeks away, but that'sz only one small part of the story...

The wispers I'm hearing about Congress' plans for the lame-duck session immediately following the elections are growing louder by the second.

In fact, right now, I'm facing perhaps the biggest decision I've ever had to make as President of Campaign for Liberty - and it's a decision I have to make in a matter days.

So I'm asking - no, begging - you today for your advice.

You see, without a massive and IMMEDIATE influx of funds, I'm going to have to cut back on some of C4L's most critical programs, and I'll have to report back to Dr. Paul that we simply cannot meet all of his goals this year.

...5 page letter I can complete if you are interested...

they have specific candidates they would like to support for fall...they are concerned after the election people will go back to sleep while congress passes massive assults i.e. tax hikes, Sopa etc during the holidays like Obama did with Obamacare...while Americans are not watching etc.

They want me to vote with my pocketbook on which items to support by sending a donation and my ballot back...maybe they feel like they made Fed progress by passing the Audit the Fed Bill in the House? It sounds like the needs addressed in the letter are for the completion of this year and ramping up for next year with the new congress.
--------------
I could return a letter with the 3 points? Maybe the 3 points are part of number 3?

"FIGHTING IN THE NEW CONGRESS
TO HELP ENSURE CAMPAIGN FOR LIBERTY IS PREPARED TO FIGHT TO ADVANCE LIBERTY ISSUES AND STOP STATIST SCHEMES IN THE NEW CONGRESS; "

I guess one would need to know what the "Liberty Issues" are.

Maybe I should ask? See Joe, you are so smart you are making me think.

Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

...

Knife shapener?

Which is more important the knife, the sharpener, or the willful use of it?

I have thought this out many times over and the Majority of People have to reach that point of critical mass and to me they need something tangible, something they can grab with their own two hands, like my Product 1 and Product 2 idea.

I don't know why people can't see the things I see, but there will be a time when inventive, competitive, higher quality, and lower cost alternatives gain CURRENCY, and if you have been at this as long as I have you can see that we are moving rapidly, actually accelerating, in that direction.

Do you remember Ross Perot?

I was where you are now when Ross Perot was attending debates.

What will you be thinking in 20 years?

What will we be witness to in 20 years of the Legal Criminals with their counterfeits don't reach their goals on their schedules?

I don't think that the solution is to send money, not Federal Reserve Notes, so I can't do so myself, nor can I advise anyone else to do so, nor would I ask for money if I went back on the Campaign Trail. Either there is a demand for what I offer or there is no demand for it yet, other than present company.

People close to me ask for my opinion too, and now, just starting now, people even consider what I have to say when I point out the persistent vapor trials.

If it takes 20 more years to reach that critical mass, then that is what it takes, and if Jesus isn't arriving until 40 years, or he arrives in 10 years, or tomorrow, then that is what happens.

You sending Federal Reserve Notes to someone?

I see that as the problem, not the solution.

Joe

I Like That

"Persistant Vapor Trails" much better than Persistant Contrails.

Jesse Ventura is speaking on Johnson's behalf (front page of DP)...so is We The People...He is recently posting several GJ OPs. We has the top DP Original Post right now.

I get confused. You like Jesse Ventura. We doesn't like you. Jesse Ventura like Gary Johnson. You and I think he may be being turned.

How can anyone tell who that well paid influential person is and how long they have appeared to be a friend while all the while a foe?

Innocent until proven guilty? Proven guilty after it is too late? I looked up Colonel House. Seems his dad made money during the civil war and they were in with the banks.

...

Up to Speed?

Bearing Liberty

It can be seen as two paths.

1.
Monopoly, Crime made Legal, Might is a lie that claims to be Right, and POWER is consumed as Rats, who were given the gift of life as a human being, consume each other fighting over the steadily diminishing supply of RAT food: slaves to a blind belief in falsehood and false Gods.

2.
Competition, natural law, right is right because right is conducive to human survival as a species and as scarce power is made into abundant productive power IN LIBERTY, because that is how we were created, to live and let live, to pursue happiness without making each other our own personal property.

The Liberty Day Challenge (July 4th 2013, or sooner, or later) suggests a turning point in time and in place on calenders for The Friends of Liberty to Unite Voluntarily and in their own special ways on that ONE DAY and the PATH traveled can then be UNDERSTOOD as being a PATH TURNED AROUND and going the more productively POWERFUL way instead of the more destructively POWERLESS way.

If a person challenged by a troubled past and very poor heath can understand the nature of the beast, and how the beast can be defeated, in time, and in places, then why can't other reasonable, moral, good people also gather up their power and know better too?

I'm asking - please.

Joe

I'm Lost

Well, it seems I have interrupted myself so many times I don't know where to put this so I am putting it here (and I have always been a very organized person LOL):
--------
“You or I or anyone does not create enemies by offering information, the enemies are already there, and now you know better, as do they, concerning which side of this Power Struggle you Stand - firmly.”

Josf, Thank you for offering your advice. It is much appreciated. Jesus has words like those:

• Luke 6:26 KJV
Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
------------
Yes, the enemies are already there and then one is able to know better. Those are good words for me to keep in mind. I will not be making enemies, but rather identifying them. That puts a completely different light on things.
---------------
“I was thinking this today, on my way to visit my mother, as we two, my mother and I represent the generations of dupes, and somehow I managed to wake up, what about the next generation?
Friends of Liberty
Friends of Legal Crime
Dupes”

Me too, I have been a dupe my whole life till now, and most likely still am deceived about some things. And I have thought this week how thankful I am that you have helped me along during my waking up process. Joe, I had no one who would listen to me and answer my questions. Jeff is busy on eternity, and besides him there is no one else that I would ask questions . So, thank you for helping me.

• I think of Paul’s words concerning the Believers in Galatia: Galatians 4:19 KJV
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

I feel as if you have travailed upon my behalf. Not so Christ would be formed in me. Christ has already been formed in me, but so that a Mindset of Liberty might be formed. I think of how at the very beginning you introduced me to the concept of competition vs. monopoly. I decided to watch a video of the Romney/Obama debate to see what the liars were lying about and I heard Romney say something to the effect that we have to have regulations. After all, you can’t just have people loaning money out of their garages. I thought… and why not? See, I would not have had that thought if you had not helped me. Joe, is there anything wrong with loaning money out of one’s garage other than the fact that certain banks will not make the interest?

After the debate was over the stage presence of the President and his wife was awkward as they were all alone, like outsiders, as the Romney and their family dominated the stage. The Obama’s left first. It seemed strange. Like one of those things I will look back upon after knowing better of the outcome.
----------------
“They will be the power that defines the answer, not us, we are perishable in our time.”

I suppose that is why Ron Paul has spent so much time on college campuses. It also calls me to memory of Doug Weed speaking after Tampa and relaying that he did not think he would see Liberty in his lifetime and that he thought things would get worse before they get better. So I suppose it is your children and my children and their friends and peers that may see Liberty. Truly though, true and lasting liberty will be seen when the one and only who can Liberate from Sin and Death reigns eternally! That is the day for which all nature is groaning.
------------
“They have 3 options, but many variations of the same 3 options:
Deceit
Threats of Violence
Violence”

So when a friend of liberty tries to come up with 100 options, then those options have to do with opting out of being deceived, or threatened, or violated?
----------
"I feel like a child with all of these simpleton questions...Thank you Joe!"
Please consider shedding, if possible, those feelings, you are accurately measurable as a true righteous human being, stand like one more - please.
-----------
I will try. I just seems like I should not need to ask all of these questions. I am old enough that I should already understand how the power struggle works…you would think (or at least I would). I feel as if I am now learning from you how to analyze things now. Something very necessary. Not just what are the facts, but how to see and use the facts.
---------------
You also are speaking to me of priorities:
1. Me doing the right thing every moment and all the demons and all the angels involved in my head as this power struggle continues.
2. Those closest to me avoiding injury, suffering, and misery while they are still alive.
3. Any moment NEWS can reach me as reports of the latest False Flag (October Surprise) Event being staged and the newest one can turn out to be the worst ever.

You also spoke to me about “Do not allow your life to be ending by other people if the only reason for your death is for other people to have fun at your expense. Please?”

These words cause me to feel like the future is very uncertain and dangerous.
-------------------
From “Serious Accusations” string:

“…natural law, or the Word of God (and I combine the two to accommodate anyone other than willful criminals), because humans make mistakes.”

Joe, what is your definition of “natural law?”

To what do you refer when you say “the Word of God”
-----------------
“Nature is thing?
God is a thing?”

I would say God is an entity and nature is not only the creation of God, but consists and exists and is held together by God and is for God:

Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist

“lessons such as Maneuver Warfare invented (or reinvented) by John Boyd.”

Does Boyd talk about this maneuver warfare in settings besides the sky?

“It is foolish, dangerous, and weak to ignore the fact that our Country has been taken over by enemies both foreign and domestic, and ignoring these obviously, accurately, measurable facts does, in fact, place the ignoramus firmly on the side of our enemies, this is not subject to interpretation or argument, this is demonstrable fact.”

I did way too much “talking out” to my mom and pop last weekend. My pop just says, “I don’t know what we can do about it.” I say we need to talk about it and tell other people about it. I don’t know what else we can do either.,,I haven’t talked much with them about competing forms of currency. I am trying to get them to acknowledge “Houston, We have a problem.” I think they do, but my mom can only take so much of the bad news.

“Innocent victims are screaming as we speak, and the pile of murdered innocent will grow much larger before the sun sets.”

Do you stay conscious of that fact? I am sorry to say, that I do not think of it. I know it because you have told me otherwise, I probably would not even know it in those terms.

“Friend or Foe decisions can be made sooner or too late, and that is the type of lesson offered by War Veterans…If we find ourselves in trenches, the enemy severing our heads from our bodies if we dare to raise our heads up to look, then we may find Will similarly inclined.”

I am understanding, but I have never thought in those terms before.

“So...if in our mutually inclined position an enemy jumps in our trench and commands Will to shoot us, or die, what does Will do with the gun handed to him at that point?”

But you know, these days they will just send in a drone and the friend of legal crime unbeknownst to us or the enemy will be collateral damage. There may never be any trenches. I wonder how much to costs to deploy a drone that deploys a bomb?

...

Thanks too.

"So, thank you for helping me."

There may be other people willing to listen. Persistence is another lesson taught by people like Ron Paul.

"Joe, is there anything wrong with loaning money out of one’s garage other than the fact that certain banks will not make the interest?"

In the other thread you remain skeptical concerning Ron Paul as being a hoax, and I do too, but here again is confirmation of genuine competition as opposed to counterfeit competition. If Federal Level Legal Tender Laws are not enforced then one State (like one person in one garage) might try the same Fraud now made legal, that Federal Reserve type Fraud, that process of producing a legal money monopoly.

So, logically, if you do that out of your garage, who is going to ever use your money?

Fool me twice and I'll come back for more?

Who and what army of well paid liars will ever make me go back to your garage to buy into your counterfeit money scheme if I can go to the garage next door and buy into a Tomato Jar money product that is worth its weight in Tomato Jars, because the inventor, producer, and the person who maintains the Tomato Jar Money product in the garage next door is trustworthy?

Why does that not play out the same way on a State Level? One State hires the same guys running the Federal Reserve now, and they try to get away with Legal Fraud and Legal Extortion, but it is a Federation now, so the People are not directly taxed with an IRS, and only the State Governments pay to the Federal Government and only if the State Governments get what they want, and if they don't get what they want, then they secede from the Voluntary Union, or they stop paying into it, whichever comes first, and meanwhile another State does not make the same mistake.

Do people vote with their feet?

How many people move to the Legal Monopoly Money Fraud State to be victimized by it?

How many people move to the Legal Monopoly Money Fraud State to gain access to all the ready victims?

Why do people in this country have offshore bank accounts?

Do you think that Romney or Obama have their savings in Federal Reserve Notes?

"That is the day for which all nature is groaning."

I don't see things exactly the same way you do, for whatever unknown reason, but I can see the validity of that sentence.

"So when a friend of liberty tries to come up with 100 options, then those options have to do with opting out of being deceived, or threatened, or violated?"

What is left for anyone to do, being alive, and spending time on Earth, if someone does not participate in lying, or accepting lies, or threats, or accepting threats, or being aggressively violent, or accepting aggressive violence?

What are the remaining possibilities once those three things are avoided?

"Not just what are the facts, but how to see and use the facts."

We all learn from each other, and that is the unsaid answer to the question offered in the On Language Book by Chomsky.

How is it that we human beings know so much when our time on earth is so busy and limited?

It is reciprocal transfers of accurate and productive information, not dictatorial, when speaking about the connections from one human being to another, whereby each person does not have to make the same mistakes and each person does not have to invent, produce, and maintain everything required for increasing standards of living and decreasing costs of living.

That is along the lines of political economy, not necessarily spirituality. Where I am measurably in the dark, someone else may offer some light?

"These words cause me to feel like the future is very uncertain and dangerous."

It is. I was answering a question, and my intent is not to cause fear. Vote if that can help you deal with the uncertainties and the dangers, but at the same time I suggest a reserve of expectation.

_______________________________________________________

"Joe, what is your definition of “natural law?”

To what do you refer when you say “the Word of God”"
________________________________________________________

To me they are the same thing and I don't get to define what they are, because God defines what they are, not me. Natural law is the same thing as that which God does, and so as far as I am concerned you can interchange one term with the other term as you see fit.

If you see any cause for contention concerning a reference I make about Natural Law as being against the word of God then I'd appreciate clarifications concerning any contention or contradiction along those lines.

"Does Boyd talk about this maneuver warfare in settings besides the sky?"

In fact the first Gulf war included a scenario where Dick Cheney supposedly threw out the battle plan by General Schwarzkopf and Cheney (a very smart person if not a good person) hired Boyd to run that war.

Now this answer I've worked on even before you asked the question. The Military personnel are specialized in fighting the battles, not questioning the reasons for doing so, and had Schwarzkopf worked his stupid plan there would have been many more people killed, on both sides, while Boyd, having a much better understanding concerning efficient use of POWER was able to reinvent Blitzkrieg or Lightening or Maneuver Warfare and that was exemplified in that first gulf war, look it up, this is not news.

There is a very interesting video of Boyd called as a witness in a hearing in Congress concerning this subject matter of how the bad guys are driven by profits, at the expense of anyone, and they care not how many have to suffer, compared to actual, honorable, military specialists who care enough to minimize the losses on any side, in any engagement.

I think Jesse Ventura is among those honorable soldiers, to which there can be no peace without them, since there are, still, very evil people willing to sacrifice anyone for their 20 pieces of gold.

I have to run.

"I say we need to talk about it and tell other people about it."

I am not perfect, far from it, and compared to many people I am not even a very good person, but I can recognize a demonstrable fact when I see one, so I stopped reading and I felt the inspiration to respond before continuing to read your welcome PART in this vital discussion. You see very well indeed, if I can claim to know better, and your words are the same word spoken by many people, not enough, but many people, such as Ron Paul.

How can we get on the page if we are being divided so efficiently?

"Do you stay conscious of that fact? I am sorry to say, that I do not think of it. I know it because you have told me otherwise, I probably would not even know it in those terms."

To me this is where the concept of balance is exemplified. How can you make life worth living if you are only focusing all of your attention on evil, misery, torture, mass murder, and tragedy?

The bad guys win if you do that, to me, so I speak about it when someone signals to me that they are willing to listen, so as to compare notes, so as to build up a power greater than the individual parts, but not DICTATORIAL, not INVASIVE, not adding to the destructive power.

I don't want to be more helpful to evil human beings.

I think I've done way too much to help evil human beings already as recorded on Federal Income Tax forms, if no other help is factual along those lines.

"But you know, these days they will just send in a drone and the friend of legal crime unbeknownst to us or the enemy will be collateral damage. There may never be any trenches. I wonder how much to costs to deploy a drone that deploys a bomb?"

Here, to me, you are taking Patrick Henry's words to heart, to know the worst of it, and unfortunately for us we don't need to help each other find Bad News, there is an abundance of it.

Joe

On Topic

Along the line of doing the least taxing work on the path of Liberty:
___________________________________________
I want to know what you think. Please tell me in a simple sentence. A) It is hog wash; b) Yes, it is true; c) How should I know; d) take your pick.
http://www.dailypaul.com/251930/ron-left-tampa-yesterday#com...
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/119363.html
http://beforeitsnews.com/libertarian/2012/08/tsa-homeland-se...
http://deadlinelive.info/2012/08/29/tsa-homeland-security-ha...
http://www.alipac.us/f19/ron-paul-his-wife-carol-granddaught...

Those above links are all circular back to the Lew Rockwell story. Is Lew Rockwell trustworthy?
_____________________________________________

Joe

Song for Sunday

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It-hyB1EEI8

Thought you might like the cloud view!

You crack me up.

Were you able to make thru to the chorus at about .35? I think it gets faster, and kinda gets out of that country sound. But of course, we have already had that discussion about beat and timing, and me being abit deaf in that area. I am the one that can't identify my heart beat, and if I do, I can't count it.

Anyways, this is the one I remember from Creedence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpqz3cdVPLM

I haven't stopped for 2 days and I am exhausted and hurting. Muscle relaxers and tylenol 2 nights in a row. I guess that is the price for high gear.

Hopefully I can catch up with you tomorrow on Liberty discussions...I have them going on in my mind.

willl and I decided we would not agree. I am dilinquent in another discussion with reedr3v about Ayn Rand...seems I don't like the philosophy of selfishness...of course I am probably talking about stuff I know nothing about...

...

Humor is good.

I listened to the song and I read they lyrics and both were good for me, thanks.

Note: The Forum Web Page has of late become intermittently unavailable.

Joe

Bother bear Back

Maker of Money Masters dissing Gold and Von Mises

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVlqwJ00LMU&list=UUhZRoC9bMeg...

His website: http://billstill.com/ says this:

"Ed Griffin and Ron Paul would rather go to their graves than admit they had swallowed this poison pill of the last 4 decades, hook, line and sinker."

Do you know about this?

Competitors resort to name calling?

Why?

What is it about the Gold Bugs Argument or the Fiat Currency Argument that has each one resorting to diversions in the effort to censor the other Argument?

To offer possible answers:

Gold Bugs want Gold [fixed typo] to be the winner in a Free Market.

Fiat Currency Proponents want a Fiat currency monopoly to be the only winner in a government structure.

What are people willing to do to get what they want, and are there any limits shared by anyone including Gold Bugs and Proponents of Fiat Currency Monopolies?

What is the common denominator among Friends of Liberty?

What is the common denominator among Friends of Legal Crime?

Are the enemy combatants sharing the desire to resort to deception upon the innocent so as to win, as each enemy combatant shares this desire, in the argument, each one working to gain at the expense of the other enemy combatant?

Are the enemy combatants sharing the desire to resort to threats of violence (pay this tax or die trying not to pay it) upon the innocent so as to win, as each enemy combatant shares this desire, in the argument, each one working to gain at the expense of the other enemy combatant?

Are the enemy combatants sharing the desire to resort to violence (not just threats of violence) upon the innocent so as to win, as each enemy combatant shares this desire, in the argument, each one working to gain at the expense of the other enemy combatant?

If so, then that is very likely to be, if you care to accurately measure the facts, the common denominator among Friends of Legal Crime = they are criminals at heart, or if not in their black hearts: at least in their well worn routines or deeds.

If they share a desire to employ the power available in the necessary work required to make power abundant, which may sound like a odd use of English Language, none-the-less, if that is a shared goal oriented work load done by those people, then consider the possibility that such a thing done is opposite the crime thing done so this may actually be the common denominator, or at least part of the common denominator, shared by The Friends of Liberty.

Liberty, it seems to me, is created by God, if we choose to share it.

If we choose to take it from each other, it is, to me, counterfeit Liberty, and therefore a move in the opposite direction.

Joe

Co-Opts?

http://www.dailypaul.com/257075/does-anyone-know-more-about-... links this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y1egV2Q2FE&feature=youtu.be

Bill Still seems to believe that individuals in the Republican Party has taken over power positions within the Party called Libertarian.

If this is the case I think it is very concerning because perhaps the ptb within the Republican Party see the writing on the wall and are morphing into the Libertarian Party...Or maybe they realize the populace has caught on to the "2 party system as being 1 system" so they are getting in front of a 3rd party so as to lead the opposition.

Any thoughts?
----

I spent a little time while I was sick watching some of his videos. He seemed very concerned that the Goldbugs are trying to make gold the monopoly money. While speaking at the Public Banking Institute, Still says Von Mises was brought over and funded by the Rockerfeller Foundation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f68sOuMkhsU&feature=relmfu
He says it doesn't matter what backs the money, but who controls the quanity of the money. He also takes Dr. Paul apart regarding the Constitution saying only Gold and Silver can be legal tender. Still says it doesn't say that.

Do you know about all that?
----
It seems to me that Still might be of the same mind as you on your Rothbard/Menger post.

Do you want to talk about this stuff or something else?

I said I was going to write once a week. It seems I am doing more. Only reply when you have available power. I am getting ready to be pretty busy the next couple of days.

Thanks Joe!

...