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July 4th 2013 Liberty Day Challenge

Two directions are possible from this moment on as proven by historical precedent. Either be subjected to suffering by Legalized Criminals and be forced to pay all debts collected in that evil enterprise or move in the direction of Liberty.

Make my day.

How about July 4th 2013?

If by that date the American people, as one, have invented, produced, and supplied a number of competitive legal monies, then those American people will take back their power to prosper, at will, for their own and for posterity.

Sign on in spirit or sign on in actual reality, either way the days will move in a direction and the Legal Criminals score their progress with or without your willful participation toward their goal of absolute despotism.

May God have mercy on our souls.

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Eyes that can see.

"Thinking about that, I suppose that helped the grocer move his product while helping the customer. So when people signed their name it was their good faith and credit."

The Legal Criminals are very busy spending our earnings that they stole in the work they need to do so as to keep stealing and they must close doors, or censor, that has to happen, they must crush all competition, so that the victims can't know better.

You are now reporting things that makes sense to me too, things that I've realized since opening some of the closed doors that were closed by evil people on purpose. This is no accident.

People in business become very inventive as they need to raise the bar, increase quality, and lower cost, while avoiding the resort to deception, while avoiding the resort to threats of violence, and while avoiding the resort to making a living by injuring weaker and innocent targeted victims.

What can be invented when the goal isn't false advertizements?

How can anyone know if that door is shut, both domestically (in our own spiritual oneness), and by foreigners (every other person)?

God (and Jesus) are not foreigners - perhaps - part of our own spiritual oneness?

"I suppose utility companies work on that principle since they use a meter to track use and send a commensurate monthly bill. I wonder how that could work in the housing market instead of buying a home 2 to 3x the money. Maybe the problem is that most want their money now instead of being bankers or creditors themselves?"

The Product 1 example of a competitive money illustration, or "that which could be if Legal Money Monopoly Fraud was not crushing all competition", is meant to show how that can be, certainly, and why not?

People aught to ask these questions, demand answers, and answers would then be supplied, since there was a demand for answers, and the answers supplied may actually be in a form such as Product 1, a no interest loan taken out on the good faith and credit of the actual person taking out the loan.

Why not?

The answer to why not is the Elephant in the room, The Legal Fraud Extortion Racket on the National Level of Criminal Government, but no one can see it, save for us few.

There is a play on words: Save for us few, don't let the savings fly to China and then arm our future tyrants - please.

I can't do much on my own.

I can do more than nothing.

I can do less than sending every measure of my earnings to Legal Criminals, yes or no?

What about Common Sense?

"Do power companies buy surplus solar energy to keep that electricity from being sold to a neighbor outside of the utility monopoly? Maybe part of finding competitive money supplies is also working around the monopolies?"

The Power Struggle is exemplified with accurate answers to those questions. I know someone who is a dear, dear, friend, someone whose father was a dear friend, dead now, the father having been a survivor of The Bataan Death March (talk about trails of tears), and both worked in Electricity, both Electricians. My friend just recently informed me that the laws changed here in California and here again is competition listed:

1.
Against the law for anyone to sell excess electricity through The Grid other than the subsidized non-competitors.

2.
Law allows some competition.

The law went from 1 to 2 and that is highly competitive, or, it is GAME OVER for the Monopoly.

Game over won't happen over night, but the writing in on the wall, the nose of the camel is in the tent now, and although Legal Fraud Taxes are being stolen and then used to "subsidize" the Monopoly Power Companies, in more ways than one, even though, now, now, now, the victims can earn a little bit of earnings, discounted, not full price, but discounted earnings, if a "tax payer" (victim) produces more electricity at home, and sends that power into The Grid, then, or now, the Monopoly Power Company is forced by Law to give up some of the profits, and actually send the "tax payer" (victim) a check, or a number of dollars per kilowatt/hour sold by the "tax payer".

It is a shell game, sure, but the power of "capitalism" or "socialism" or whatever word works for you to know LIBERTY, in real terms, is winning on this front, right here in California. Your State may be less competitive on this front in the power struggle.

"Maybe part of finding competitive money supplies is also working around the monopolies?"

Just because the victims are told to believe that there is only one money, dollars, does not mean that we all have to be so stupid, some of us can know better, and we few can know that electricity is almost an ideal money. I know how that works, you can know it too.

The problem with electricity as money is such that electricity is more like "currency" and less like "money" if by "money" you are speaking in terms of "a storage medium" (of exchange).

1. Money
1a. Currency
1b. Storage Medium

Once people figure out how better to store electric power, in BANKS, the fact that electricity is very good money will be more factual, in fact. You may not yet see this as I do, but I can certainly work at bringing the facts to light in due time.

"Do you know which states are working on competitive money options other than Utah and Missouri? I was wondering if a post for each of those states individually with a link to your 2013 Liberty Day Challenge might be effective."

That type of information is very vague, potentially misleading, and scarce, so "news" about it will be few and far between, and of little use, unless people are going to put down their plows and take up their arms (pens) to march against Legal Crime, and in that case they can know where to go to fight that good fight. If I see another reference I can post it here, and meanwhile I started posting historical examples of important money issues at the top of the page.

"Also wondering if information on currently available alternate forms of money would be good posts to link back to the 2013 Liberty Day Challenge?"

I had read your entire response last night, sleeping on the ideas, and waking up to first offer Example 1, above, and then respond here, and then on to chores: picking up my plow.

"or would adding a comment with your link be considered spamming?"

I don't think that there is a fine line between spam and "The British are Coming!" Paul Revere type messages, you would not, for example, whisper the message once to one person and then expect the targets to figure out a way to avoid being victims in time.

When someone else thinks you are spamming they tend to let you know, yes or no?

Joe

Power Independence

“What can be invented when the goal isn't false advertizements?”

I suppose what could be invented would be as numberous as there are people! I think you mentioned ideas as numerous grains of sand one time. Advertisements with an s, no z. I was going to tell you before but I didn’t want you to think I was correcting you. You can spell it however you want, but I am just letting you know it is with an s in case you would want to know (I would).

“How can anyone know if that door is shut, both domestically (in our own spiritual oneness), and by foreigners (every other person)?”

Domestically one may not know the door is shut. Perhaps the door isn’t a door from the inside and goes unnoticed until a little stream of light shines thru. Then whammo, that invisible door can be flung open, or maybe just cracked opened so as to peer to see what is on the other side. Perhaps the other side may be too frightening so then the door is shut domestically by the owner of that door.

I think being asleep is when that door is shut, and it may take a long time to fully wake up and figure out what is on the other side of the door, if one even has the capacity to waking up! That is what I am in the process of doing. So yes, perhaps that door was initially shut domestically, but maybe it is done so by the outside pushing force of foreigners and then it might be reshut domestically from the inside if one fears what is on the otherside.

God (and Jesus) are not foreigners - perhaps - part of our own spiritual oneness?

Now I would like to answer that question. I am going to do that by resourcing Scripture I have retained without giving exact quotes or references. If you would like actual quotes with references I will give them. I always like to give quotes so that I am not the one being the authority but rather the Word of God, because the way I see it, my own opinion really doesn’t make much difference.

The Bible tells Believers: that the Holy Spirit abides in them (So it is actual God=Father+Son+Holy Spirit; i,e, H20 illustration); that they are seated in heavenly places with Christ Jesus; that they are in Jesus’s hand and Jesus is in the Father’s hand; that they are family with God; to have the mind of Christ; that greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world; that Christ lives in them. However, God and Jesus are foreigners to those that do not receive Christ, as a matter of fact the Bible says that unbelievers are actually enemies of Jesus

“The Product 1 example of a competitive money illustration…”

This is not a criticism, but a question that just came to mind. With the Product 1 and 2 illustrations, we are still dependent companies to loan money. Is there not enough money between friends of liberty to make our own network without depending on the benevolence of a corporation which can become corrupted?

“…no interest loan taken out on the good faith and credit of the actual person taking out the loan.”

I think this is done with current 0% financing, but I feel that the financing is already rolled into the price of the object. When I pay cash for a large dollar item when 0% financing is offered, I wish I could get a discount.

As far as individuals loaning money at 0%, I suppose that they do not do that because they can put their money at risk and gain a “false advertisement” (because of inflation) larger return, but that of course is under the current single money monopoly system.

We are looking at buying in the country and we are looking at using retirement instead of a loan. I looked at all our investments. The dollar amount has basically doubled in the last 10 years. What has happened to the value of money in the last 10 years? Then of course there will be the 30% tax penalty hit, so maybe a low interest loan is better than taking out the money except of course if you are not right that we are winning the battle, we may have 0 retirement when the criminals take that money away from us, about which we already hear rumors.

Just had another thought about that double in 10 years. Maybe it doubled because they doubled the money supply. Maybe they had to bail out the bankers so the stock market wouldn’t crash…so that there would appear to be growth. Then of course, it is an election year. Gas is going down and stocks are going up.

We have a 93 year old widow wife of a Bataan Death March survivor in our church. We only knew her husband briefly as he passed away in the first year of our being here. They didn’t have any children so the church is her family. She worked at the local bank during her working years. She puts on a suit every day and drives her car over to Main Street to go eat lunch. I hope I am doing so well if I make it to 93!

“The law went from 1 to 2 and that is highly competitive, or, it is GAME OVER for the Monopoly.”

That is encouraging! Hopefully that California Liberty will spread our way.

“It is a shell game, sure, but the power of "capitalism" or "socialism" or whatever word works for you to know LIBERTY, in real terms,”

Is there a difference between socialism and collectivism?

I listened to a G. Howard Griffin interview with Norman Dodd this morning. Was very interesting on Foundations and history. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUYCBfmIcHM Seems Dodd was in banking when the bankers became aware of the legal criminal money monopoly so he is speaking from first hand experience.

“Once people figure out how better to store electric power, in BANKS, the fact that electricity is very good money will be more factual, in fact. You may not yet see this as I do, but I can certainly work at bringing the facts to light in due time.”

I did not comment on your explanation of the Power Independence Plan in the Tricky post ( http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2608415 ), but I found it very interesting and well explained. I just went back and reread it because my retention level is lousy. (I knew where it was, but I couldn’t remember the details, just that I liked it, so only some of my retention is lousy.) Is that what you are talking about when you say bringing the facts to light in due time?

I had this question that I didn’t bring up before regarding:
“You don't want your neighbor to compete in the Power business so you sell at 10% discount instead of 50% discount? You want to corner the market and sell to your other neighbor so you want to be able to buy another Solar Panel sooner than your neighbor?”

“You want to buy enough Solar Panels to supply the whole neighborhood at 2% discount compared to the Monopoly Power Company Price and retire on the income, and pay employees to keep the power flowing, while you vacation in the Bahamas, assuming that you can hire an honest worker or two, one that won't skip off top when you aren't looking?”

Isn’t that what the monopolies are doing to us? Isn’t that what Warren would call Civilized Cannibalism?

“6. VALUE being made the basis of price, becomes the principal element of civilized
cannibalism.”

In the case of edging my neighbor out of the Solar Panel business so I can have the neighborhood electricity monopoly and go to the Bahamas: am I not using “value based pricing” such that I am determining the value of the commodity based upon a future value to me? What is the true value of the commodity according to Warren? Wouldn’t it only be the cost of the solar panels and their maintenance? I am still trying to sort all this out in my mind. I think human nature has a need to gain economically, which is why America has been prosperous, but I am having a hard time taking power from the power monopoly only to have it myself even though I would like to go to the Bahamas while some trustworthy people worked for me.

“I don't think that there is a fine line between spam and "The British are Coming…When someone else thinks you are spamming they tend to let you know, yes or no?”

I don’t understand the answer. I don’t want to make people mad, I don’t want to break any rules, and I don’t want to do stuff with your post link if you do not want me to. Those 3 things are my main concerns. I am sorry to be so dense, but could you just tell me if you think it is a good idea for me to link some of my comments on other posts to your post or not.

I saw your Example 1 post and I will be reading it and hopefully learning and retaining. I want to know if would gain you more currency…making Example 1 a stand-alone post and link it to your Liberty post or is it better just to add it as a comment to your own post? I find that I open posts that have intriguing or catchy Liberty type or disastrous type titles. Human nature I guess… I have noticed several comments today by people who believe we need to break out of the Criminal Cabal. I wonder how those people could be driven to your post and inspired to comment on it and perhaps join the effort? If it bugs you that I am thinking along these lines just let me know and I will butt out of that type of thinking. i.e., when I saved this comment I just saw http://www.dailypaul.com/244548/interest-paid-on-us-debt-las... . I opened it because of the title (human nature). I would make a comment and add your Liberty Day link if ok with you.

Thank you for your time once again.

Theory versus Reality

"This is not a criticism, but a question that just came to mind. With the Product 1 and 2 illustrations, we are still dependent companies to loan money. Is there not enough money between friends of liberty to make our own network without depending on the benevolence of a corporation which can become corrupted?"

This question can be looked at from many angles so as to get the most accurate (most competitive) answer possible. There can be a very general or principle rough answer or a principled but very detailed answer, or there can be a rough answer that is very specific, and there can be a very precise answer that is very specific as such:

1. Principle or General perspective (Theory)
a. Looking at all data at once and finding common elements
b. Looking at one specific example and understanding the common elements

2. Actual working examples measured (Reality)
a. Looking at all actual examples and understanding the common elements of all the examples
b. Looking at one specific example and understanding the common element by measuring how it works in reality

I make the answer complicated because there is a very serious failure by many people to see past the Common NonSense or Brainwashing so as to get to something that resembles Common Sense better.

So I can go back to my Outline and dig into the data:

1. Legal Competition Money already exists in Theory since many people do use many types of Mediums of Exchange every day.
a. All those Mediums of Exchange are transfers of power from each individual to each other individual and the common denominator here is to know that LEGAL CRIME demands to be paid in $ units, so everyone will be converting these transfers with that DOLLAR unit somewhere in their calculations with few exceptions (but the exceptions are worth looking at too).
b. Economic (specifically not political exchanges of power) exchanges of power, someone who works trading work for someone who has worked and has stored their work in capital, are many diverse types of exchanges already, including barter, including those frequent flier miles, saving coupons, and multitudes of inventive methods of making connections between free market traders, strictly voluntary and having nothing to do with Politics unless someone resorts to deceit, threats of violence, or violence in the effort to make those connections.

2. Take a town such as Ithaca New York where they use Labor Dollars and compare that employment of that money, measure it, and do so in the general sense of how it works when it works without the links to The Dollar.
a. Each exchange happens disconnected from The Dollar in the town, between the people trading, and life goes on in that town, by using that example of that Medium of Exchange and it may be "legal" in that town, so it is political in that town, but it is economic in that town as being separate from the ONE LEGAL MONEY MONOPOLY POWER known as The Dollar Hegemony, so the idea is to see that inventive money, as an example of economic money, working economically, and working separate from the enforced Legal Fraud Money.
b. Look at any one exchange of Ithaca Hours Money as it works between a person and another person during an exchange in that town, before anyone involved is required to convert that power into DOLLAR UNITS.

Your question again:

"This is not a criticism, but a question that just came to mind. With the Product 1 and 2 illustrations, we are still dependent companies to loan money. Is there not enough money between friends of liberty to make our own network without depending on the benevolence of a corporation which can become corrupted?"

Product 1 and Product 2 is along the lines of up-scale competition such as that which already exists, such as Ithaca Hours being "legal" in Ithaca New York, but not "legal" in Patterson New Jersey. The up-scale process makes Product 1 and Product 2 "legal" in American, while it is not "legal" in Germany.

You can start producing Ithaca Hours Money without taking the name, without counterfeiting, you can call it Bear Hours Money, backed by tomatoes in jars. You are the entire "company", and your economic power may be small, but what if you expand your market share, then it is no longer small, how much can you go up the scale?

The principles remain the same, and when the scale goes up the labels used to name the things and the events changes from one name to another name, you are no longer an individual, you are now a family of tomato jar producers with tomato jar money, then a company, then a city built up around the capital of tomatoes, then the Tomato Jar State, then the Tomato Jar Nation, or will your group call themselves a Republic?

What is the nature of the connecting mediums now, and what will they be if you are, for whatever reason, in command of inventing, producing, and maintaining the nature of those connections?

A. One legal money that must be used to pay mandatory taxes or you are punished if you get caught and you are rewarded if you rise into a position of authority by resort to deceit, by resort to threats of violence, and by resort to violence as a means of raising your authority in this System of Legal Fraud and Extortion that you invent, produce, and maintain.

B. Any Legal Money that wins by being the money of choice by anyone anywhere without limit other than the limits placed by moral conscience i.e. do onto others as you would have them do unto you, or strict avoidance of resort to deceit, resort to threats of violence, and avoidance of the employment of violence upon the innocent as a means of gaining power at the expense of the targeted victims.

"This is not a criticism, but a question that just came to mind. With the Product 1 and 2 illustrations, we are still dependent companies to loan money. Is there not enough money between friends of liberty to make our own network without depending on the benevolence of a corporation which can become corrupted?"

Corporations cannot become corrupted.

Friends of Liberty cannot become corrupted, that is impossible, if a person resorts to deceit upon the innocent as a means of gaining power at the expense of the targeted innocent person, then that is no Friend of Liberty, that is a criminal, as that criminal defines crime by his or her thoughts (politics) and his or her actions (economy).

Either you think and act like a Friend of Liberty or you think and act like a Friend of Legal Crime, if you are to understand my angle of view, and these things are measurable, not merely theory, take any thought, and take any action, and those thoughts and those actions can be placed competitively on a scale between Productive use of Power and Destructive use of Power; where Friends of Liberty employ POWER productively resulting in more Productive Power or Friends of Legal Crime employ POWER destructively resulting in less Productive Power even if the scarce POWER flows from the victim (who earned that power) to the criminal (who stole that power).

The method by which the power is transferred can be deceptive/inaccurate or honest/accurate so the things used can confess the person's affiliation.

Master/Slave relations employ deceptive/inaccurate mediums of exchange.

Independent free traders, competitors, each seeking to be better the next moment than they are the moment before (doing the right thing morally) use honest/accurate mediums of exchange.

Why blame the medium of exchange if the use of it merely clues you in on what type of person is using it?

A. Master/Slave
B. Free Human Being

God's Children, it seems to me, would not be using torture devices if their goal is to help people. The tool is a very poor tool for reaching toward that goal, and that aught to be known as a matter of fact, not a "theory".

Give to Caesar that which is Caesar's?

Can we use something else instead of Ceasar's Master/Slave connecting mediums = tools?

If the goal is to torture, then use a torture device.

If the goal is to help each other then why use torture devices and why blame the device when an actual person had to pick up the device and then use the device to reach the goal being sought?

"Maybe they had to bail out the bankers so the stock market wouldn’t crash…so that there would appear to be growth."

I think the term is "reward", for a job well done.

Crime pays well because Legal Crime pays very well, just ask a Legal Criminal; while trusting that the answer will be a lie.

"Is there a difference between socialism and collectivism?"

Think about the actual question before I answer it, since the term "collectivism" can be confused with "Bolshevism" (Stalin's version of Communism) and along those lines I can ask if the Amish use collectivism by your definition of that word.

To me an insurance policy is collectivism.

To me any "Bank" of any kind is collectivism.

Does English convey accurate meaning?

I see an opportunity to return to this later but for now I have other things to be done.

Thanks (intending to return to this reply)

Back

"Seems Dodd was in banking when the bankers became aware of the legal criminal money monopoly so he is speaking from first hand experience."

I have not yet viewed the Dodd link, but I can say that The First Bank of the United States was not the first attempt to corrupt honest money by Legal Criminals seeking to take over the power of Liberty and replace it with counterfeit Liberty as counterfeit Liberty hides the evil Legal Crime behind the False Front. Dodd, and other witnesses of the things done by "bankers" may have took awhile to get up to speed, it seems to me. This Legal Crime business (with Legal Fraud Money) is not new - Money Changers.

"Is that what you are talking about when you say bringing the facts to light in due time?"

I was busy yesterday spending time with my visiting cousin and we ran into a few stumbling blocks along these lines of trading (equitable) information and offering each other competitive viewpoints. When I say "competition" he heard "stabbing each other in the back" and so he was not receiving the message well until I recognized the stumbling block and when I tried another angle of attack on getting around that stumbling block.

As such:

Joe:
"When there are two legal money suppliers to choose from the people force the suppliers through competition to increase quality and lower cost."

Mike:
"I do not agree. Why can't everyone merely use the best money, why does "competition" have to be used?"

Joe:
"I don't mean "stab in the back" competition. The competition could be time based, whereby yesterday everyone used the best legal money and today someone invents something better, and the difference then is that today in Liberty people can choose yesterdays worse money or today's better money, rather than the non-competition choice which is for everyone to be forced to use the old, bad, fraud money, or else."

That is not verbatim, but my cousin and I are very close so our conversations usually get past any stumbling blocks very quickly, we are not hiding anything, protecting anything, keeping any secrets, (you and I are conversing along in this way too, open, and honest, nothing to hide, no point in it at all) and we both think of these things very often. His angles of view are often very challenging and very welcome (again the same way in our conversation so far as I can tell) because I get to borrow his brain, where my brain has not managed to open up as many creative doors, inventing new angles of views, since ONE brain is very limited, and TWO brains are not as limited, so there is an advantage in making a connection, comparing notes, and having new ways with new possibilities visible using expanded perspectives, options, and greater variety, looking, possibly, around previous stumbling blocks, bringing light to previous shadows, and solving, if possible, problems that were only problems because the solutions were not visible.

"Is that what you are talking about when you say bringing the facts to light in due time?"

Mike and I were also on the subject of Power Independence, that is what I bring to the table, and he typically has an interest in catching up on my latest angles of attack, and typically, as in the chess games we played in the past, when we had more time closer, he formulates new angles of attack during the disconnected time, so the subject of Power Independence was challenged again and my response to a question that challenged the viewpoint was such (and the answer appeared to ring true to Mike):

On the subject of POWER products lowering in cost due to increased supplies (less scarcity or power):

Joe:
Just add up your own costs. Start with electricity and know how that works first. When I started this investigation: a Solar Panel was able to pay for itself before it stops working, and now the Solar Panel is close or even past the point where it can pay for two more copies of itself in addition to paying for its own cost. You buy one and before it stops working you have produced enough electricity to have enough power to pay for the first one and two more copies so knowing that you should know that Electricity can become cost-less, so add that savings first to the list of savings. You pay almost nothing for electricity, so add that up this month, no electric bill.

He says got it.

Now see how transportation fuel is cost-less if electricity is costless, and you can use an electric car or you can start making motor fuel out of algae, which consumes Carbon Dioxide, so there goes that whole business about Global Warming caused by Carbon Dioxide, if that is a problem, sure it is a problem, so why not convert to burning up Carbon Dioxide in the production of fuel made from Algae, since that is a lot of Algae needing a lot of Carbon Dioxide to stay alive long enough to be made into fuel.

Mike can see that too. Sure Global Warming is a problem, and sure the problem may include the cause of too much Carbon Dioxide, so what are the competitive solutions:

1.
Invade Middle Eastern countries and take over their oil supplies starting World War III
2.
Convert the home economy to Algae production for transportation fuel whereby Carbon Dioxide in huge supplies are needed to feed all that Algae that could be grown on many individual farms with very small, very competitive, and very cheap Modular Vertical Farming Greenhouse Units.

Mike can figure that out, no problem.

So now you have less electric bill costs per month, by at least 50%, a lot more than 50% in time (it takes time for the first Solar Panel to pay for the THIRD solar panel = 25 years), and now you have less transportation costs, easily cut down by 80% since it is roughly 10 cents per mile for Gasoline POWER and 2 cents per mile for Electric POWER in cars - not even beginning to count the costs of shipping (by burning very dirty fuel used in Ocean Shipping) from China to America, just your own personal savings and your own monthly POWER gains. Now move to food, again lower prices, higher quality, more farmers making more food out of their Modular Virtual Farming Units, and again cut down by at least 50%.

What do we have so far?

Lower:
1. Home heating/cooling
2. Food costs
3. Transportation fuel costs

I then move back to Mortgage costs, we already went through that some, but now we are going out of the realm of pure economics and now going into the realm of politics, but that is left aside for a later challenge because I want to get to the point, and Mike allows me to offer an unchallenged reduction in costs from a person buying a home and having to pay for three homes to a person buying a home and having to pay for only one home and the savings per month is then roughly half of the current monthly mortgage payment or roughly half of the current rent (he is a renter) payment.

Lower:
1. Home heating/cooling
2. Food costs
3. Transportation fuel costs
4. Lower ground rent or shelter

Now, while you have that rough calculation of having that much more POWER to Purchase each month do a few things, first add up everyone else who also has that much more power each month, and start figuring out what everyone does with that power. They want more stuff. They may want to go on vacation. There is a huge increase in demand, and who then is going to fill in that demand if everyone is on vacation?

Mike let's me talk more, as we drive to get air in the tires of the pick-up truck.

So the big change occurs when you now have a whole lot of people wanting a whole lot of people to do more work, to serve vacationers, to produce all those things everyone now wants, new books, better things that use less but make more, more entertainment, more fun, more enjoyment out of life, more demand, more demand, and fewer people who are working their jobs to earn their vacations too.

What happens...

I don't let Mike fill in the blank, but I can see that he isn't quite getting it, but he might, so I throw in a clue, but as in chess this clue doesn't quite uncover the connection to the Check Mate move, I ask:

What happens to minimum wage "laws"?

I move the bishop over with what I think is Check Mate (Game Over):

Now there is a push (as in putsch) to limit the power of the workers charging too much for labor.

Why too much demand for workers and not enough workers changes the whole dynamics from what it is when it is in favor of "The Capitalists" (for lack of a better word = Fascists works better) to what it is when The People themselves command their own power of their own earnings.

He is getting it and I continue (but I can be much more expressive in person compared to written language):

Workers sitting at home being solicited by many potential employers begging the workers, please work, please work, not enough workers, a scarcity of workers, and capitalists trying to force workers to work, or trying to entice workers to work, to get workers up off their butts and work for them instead of the workers working for the other guys who are also desperately in need of higher quality and lower cost workers.

Now = low demand high unemployment here in U.S.A. Inc. (LLC)
When Legal Crime is no longer the problem seeking a solution (false problem false solution) then:
Liberty = high demand no unemployment here in America (land of plenty)

Now = Fascists hold all the cards (power to purchase) and dictate (buy things) so as to make sure they keep all the cards

Liberty = Employers have to increase the quality and pay rate of their employment opportunities to out bid their competitors for a shrinking supply of workers as workers gain power by earning their vacations, early retirements, and are no longer fighting each other over fewer and fewer jobs.

The difference between Legal Crime and Liberty is measurable as the total amount of power being produced out of the total amount of power available.

How much power does the sun supply?

How much of it is used productively?

If power runs like water, cost-less, everyone has power, not just a few, and certainly not just ONE small monopoly or Cabal = The Dollar Hegemony, soon to be known as The Chinese Hegemony both of which are False Fronts hiding the actual World Bank Monopoly Legal Crime Racket.

The limit on anyone supplying any demand is no longer a need to pay tribute to the False Gods (false taxes, usury, etc.), the limit is human inventive power, the power to fill the demand better tomorrow than yesterday.

Gone is the default resort to Legal Crime, the new age of Liberty dawns as people find other ways to skin the cat, productive ways, rather than resorting to deceit at the drop of a hat, rather than resorting to threats of violence because that is the way everyone else was brought up to act first, shoot first and ask questions later, might makes right, etc., that is gone, people are allowed to compete, by law, people are allowed to invent better and better ways to increase the power supply.

It is that simple.

How much power is there today and how much power will there be tomorrow? Legal Criminals can't allow the power supply to grow, that can't happen for Legal Crime Monopolies, power must be made scarce, on purpose, for the profit of the few at the expense of the many.

How much power is there today?

How can We The People make that power supply reach new limits?

We The People have to stop taking false authority on face value, since the face is a false front, we can't be led to believe that it is good enough to send our scarce power to people who lie, so that we can be satisfied with "better" lies today than yesterday, because "our" hired liar lies for our side and not their side, or some other merry-go-round, or musical chairs, from hell.

The Business Psycho

10 potential employers fighting over 2 possible workers is a whole lot different than One Billion Starving Workers ready to do anything to stay alive according to a few potential employers who will use those THINGS (people = cannon fodder) up as they please.

Mike, as far as I could tell, got the latest angle of view from me, but we've been working on this since we were "knee high to a duck".

Game Over (Check Mate)

It starts with Legal Money Competition. What is the problem?

"Isn’t that what the monopolies are doing to us? Isn’t that what Warren would call Civilized Cannibalism?"

Yes, that is a part of human nature, people will try to get the easy way out, and that is the point, people will try to Monopolize, so if you prefer not to be victim to your neighbor monopolizing you, then why pay a World Wide Legal Monopoly to protect you from that possibility?

The fix isn't to create a bigger monopoly so as to secure person and property from a smaller one, that is the basis of the Big Lie.

Here is a problem, call it X.

Here is the solution to the problem, call it Y (but it is X with a False Front).

How stupid can people get?

I don't know but there are people who are finding out by hook or by crook, just how stupid people can get.

"In the case of edging my neighbor out of the Solar Panel business so I can have the neighborhood electricity monopoly and go to the Bahamas: am I not using “value based pricing” such that I am determining the value of the commodity based upon a future value to me?"

You are getting it, I can see this, or I think I see you getting it, but in this case the obvious should be:

You start your own competitive Power Company and you can offer your neighbor cheaper power (even if you have to run the cables yourself from your Power House to your neighbor's house, and bypass The Grid entirely), so you have defeated The Monopoly in that way.

Goal: stop providing the means by which I suffer
Solution: Produce my own Power and then sell it.

Then YOU try to become a MONOPOLY yourself (or so the thinking goes along these lines), so now, think, what stops your neighbor from buying Solar Panels himself, or herself, if you begin to charge too much?

We return to the power of credit (and I think that "debt" is a counterfeit form of credit).

If you have Joe's Law well understood then you know that no one, anywhere, is going to gain advantage over anyone without POWER being available in the first place, and POWER is available, and I can borrow your welcome viewpoint here too, as God has given us all the POWER we can ever need, so what is the problem?

The problem is not that we don't have access to abundant power, the problem is that some of us, actually few of us, CHOOSE to keep power from the rest of us, so that those few are then more powerful than the rest of us.

Power is willfully kept from the many by the few, and that is the reverse of Joe's Law as such:

Power employed destructively reduces the supply of power thereby increasing the price of power (charged by those few who have power upon those many who don't) while purchasing power decreases (for those who have no power to make their own credit) since the lack of power makes it very expensive to make anything (look at your POWER BILLS each month and add it up).

So, sure, try as you might to become the next Monopolist (benevolent dictator of the neighborhood supply of Electric Power), every effort to bend the victims to your will causes them to invent a way around your dictatorial regime, they squirm out from under your jack boot and buy their own Independent Power sources. You are a very poor dictator if you refuse to resort to deceit, threats of violence, and acts of violence upon your targeted victims.

Why is that not easy to see?

I can answer that question since it has taken me decades to see past all the brain washing so far, and there are still many lies clouding the truth.

"What is the true value of the commodity according to Warren? Wouldn’t it only be the cost of the solar panels and their maintenance? I am still trying to sort all this out in my mind."

The seller in "capitalism" is said, dogmatically, not to be the POWER by which price is determined, and that has to be one of the lies set aside if the idea is to understand Equitable Commerce (in my opinion).

The seller calculates the value of his own time and energy, all costs are calculated by the seller, and then the price, adding up all the costs, is set by the seller as if the seller says:

This is my price for this thing being sold, this is as low as I can get the price, I am as competitive as I can be, honestly, this is it, this is the bottom line, and if I can't make a living at this price, then I have to know that fact sooner, so that I can find the work that I can do best, and I find my best work sooner, since I can't make a living at this at any lower price.

Equitable Commerce bypasses that supposed FORCE of competition that FORCES the seller to lower prices in competition with other people as other people competitively produce the same things sold by the seller just starting to find his own costs (and his own price), since in Equitable Commerce the seller gets right down to the bottom dollar at the start, so the seller is in competition with himself, or herself, forcing himself, or herself to be his best, or her best self, from day one.

Now, knowing this, you can apply this, and you can see that you can start selling tomato jars, know your price, and see if you can make it work, you have the power, the responsibility, to set the price, and you can add any factor you think meets whatever criteria needed by you, including medical insurance costs, baby sitter costs, vacation costs, whatever will be used by you to determine the Equitable Price you set for tomato jars. Then responsibility of the buyer is a determining factor as to your best self, your best price, being competitive, or not being competitive, and if the price is too high, then you can't earn a living that way, or your best self wasn't your best self, because you can get by with a lower price yet.

Back to the drawing board.

What do other people need? What can you supply to other people better than anyone else can supply to other people? If your goal is to be honest, might it be a good idea to be honest with yourself first?

Why would anyone want to deceive the people that want things that can be supplied by anyone?

Hi, I am selling lies, do you want any?

I am not the best at this, so I'm going to resort to deception to trick people into thinking I am the best at this?

That chosen path leads people away from finding what they are best at, and that chosen path, according to Warren (my interpretation), leads people toward Civilized Cannibalism (that which I call Legal Crime).

"I think human nature has a need to gain economically, which is why America has been prosperous, but I am having a hard time taking power from the power monopoly only to have it myself even though I would like to go to the Bahamas while some trustworthy people worked for me."

In the hypothetical example of you taking POWER back from the Monopoly Power Company (buying your own Solar Panels and then selling POWER to your neighbors) the price you set is exactly what you set, and if you are still competitive (lesser evil) than the Monopoly Power Company, all that says to me is that the Power Company was at a very high price (way above cost, or "subsidized") and therefore you can only "get away" with the high price (above your costs) because the customer has only 3 choices:

1.
Pay the highest price available (Monopoly Subsidized Legal Monopoly Power Company) price = paying more for less.

2.
Pay your less high price, but you are jacking up the price based upon how much "the market will bear" (capitalism pricing method), you are only better that the worst so the choice to you neighbor is to pay a little more for a little less, and only relative to choice 1 above.

3.
Start Independent Power production at home (copy what you did as you invested in Solar Panels) and then the choice is to pay the least for the most until a better, more competitive, option is visible, doable, and ready to capitalize upon.

Where did you get the "credit" to start buying Solar Panels?

Does your neighbor (customers) have the same POWER to Purchase on "credit" as you do?

Can he sell you paper I.O.U.'s for tomato jars, or hair cuts, or corn, or milk, or business suits, or whiskey, or medical treatment, or a stay at a fine Bed and Breakfast this summer, and within that price of that I.O.U. the seller calculated the cost of 1 Solar Panel added to the cost of producing the tomato jars, or hair cuts, that are redeemable with each I.O.U., or Coupon, and he can still sell those Coupons, with the additional cost of a Solar Panel, because his, or her, hair cuts are the best in town, or his tomato jars are much better than yours, etc.?

Why do we, by default, look for The Federal Reserve Legal Monopoly for DEBT, when we, in fact, are the lenders of last resort, since we are the people who are honest enough, and productive enough, to actually employ scarce power in the work required to increase the POWER SUPPLY?

"I am sorry to be so dense, but could you just tell me if you think it is a good idea for me to link some of my comments on other posts to your post or not."

I think that it is imperative for the survival of the human species that you, and everyone, find every possible avenue by which the warnings of "The British are Coming" are made available to anyone needing to know better, so yes, please, post links, and keep posting links, and keep discussions going, and get the word out, to the limit that you find, the limit you find in yourself, and the limits imposed by you by other people who communicate to you that they have had enough.

A. Yes, spread the word, please.
B. No, don't waste any time spreading the word to people who let you know that they don't want to know anything you have to offer.
C. You won't know the limit if you do nothing.

When Mormons used to knock on my door I welcomed them in, I want to know their angle of view - it is competitive. When I went door to door collecting signatures to get past the filing fee to get on the ballot in 1996 I was not insisting on making people know better, I was asking, and so doors slammed shut were slammed shut, and that was my signal that what I had to offer was Spamming, to them, in those cases.

There is one sure way of avoiding the wrong of intruding and that is to do nothing, somewhere in between aggressive wars for profit and doing nothing is an honest and expedient path chosen at each fork in the road.

"Example 1 a stand-alone post and link it to your Liberty post or is it better just to add it as a comment to your own post?"

If that gains currency then I am all for it. If that experiment does not gain currency then I am still all for it. I don't do that myself because my time and energy, over the years on this path, are governed by lazy routines, occasionally I find inspiration in trying new things, and occasionally the connections I am connected to are disconnected by other people (banishment from a forum), and to me it is like being in low gear, not stopped, and not reverse, but being in low gear slowing climbing up a steep hill. I no longer expect to see the the top of the hill, and I no longer expect to see flat lands, and I no longer expect to see a downhill stretch.

I write, that is what I do, and to may astonishment, your conversations appear to me as an unexpected reduction in the grade of the hill, an opportunity to gain RPM, and now you are driving and looking for another gear. Now we are racing each other up the hill.

I'm going to stick with my low gear, and pull the throttle some, save gas.

You can race up the hill.

If more unexpected things happen, I might be able to shift up too, but my experience, right or wrong, is to chug along in my lazy routine, door to door, and I no longer impose upon people to sign any pledges, not in writing, just saying hey, there is a problem, the problem is this, there is a solution, and the solution isn't to use the problem in the futile effort to solve the problem.

Example:

I went to the Alex Jones new web site, joined, and there was a section called Ask Alex. I asked a lot of questions and offered to be a guest, call me Average Joe America, and I can speak about this, this, this, and this.

Someone responded with an interest, asking for more information. I responded to that, and that; in my imagination, this could turn out to be a gear change, going faster by a huge margin, reaching a whole lot more people, suddenly, an interview on the Alex Jones show?

There was no response after the second exchange.

Back to the hill, chugging along, still going forward, not standing still, not going backwards.

Decades, 10 year stretches, learning more, leaving behind more dogma, spreading the word, as far as I can, to the limit of my power, knowing for sure that I am missing a lot of opportunities because I am basically lazy, just another Average Joe American, I want to make the most of my life too, I'm not just a broken record.

"I wonder how those people could be driven to your post and inspired to comment on it and perhaps join the effort?"

Parallel paths never join, so here I think is a case of intersecting paths, where the point of intersection is way down the road, far ahead, and the paths are getting closer and closer together as time goes by, I see this as an increase in the number of people starting to use competitive language.

Examples:

Gerald Celente uses new terms like Presstitute.

I can borrow that term, it is a good one.

Alex Jones uses the term Globalist.

I think my Legal Criminal term is much more competitive so I only use Globalist when speaking to people who are affiliated (connected) to the Alex Jones "collective" or group.

Competitors may see me and my terms in a similar way, borrowing what looks good, leaving behind what does not look good, and as far as connecting by way of discussion, it seems to me anyway, my viewpoint is still too far away from theirs, but that appears to be changing, all these people on all these competitive paths are not parallel lines, these paths are converging because the goal is the same, the goal is Liberty, not counterfeit Liberty, so eventually we will all be speaking the same language, not necessarily the same conversation. Once in Liberty there is a whole world of new things to talk about, having left behind the counterfeit versions which are limiting, even self-limiting, a different goal, destroy power, what happens when that is the goal: power is destroyed. Counterfeit, or falsehood, has a goal, the goal is to destroy things, that is the goal, and those who are reaching for that goal do so in the effort to make their victims less powerful, and that is the only way they can see as their way of gaining power. They gain power only by making everyone else weaker. Legal Criminals have their own tools, counterfeit money, false advertizements, because they choose deceit, they choose threats of violence, they choose violence upon the innocent, they have counterfeit tools, false fronts, things that appear to be useful things, things that are only useful in reaching that goal, to weaken others and that makes them relatively strong.

If we keep using those same tools we won't make as much progress toward Liberty compared to our efforts to get to Liberty and then from that point we can use competitive tools, better tools, better money, better power sources, better language, no more Monopoly POWER, we go whichever way avoids resort to deceit upon the innocent, avoids resort to threats of violence upon the innocent, and avoids resort to violence upon the innocent, and if there are still criminals making a living with those resorts to those things then we can use competitive methods dealing with them, not being chained down to the ONE FINAL SOLUTION to that Legal Crime Problem.

Example:

The hand held device that can be used by anyone to immobilize a potential attacker.

Not a gun.
Not a false "non-lethal" defensive weapon such as a taser

An actual hand held device that can be used by anyone (made as cheap as a cell phone) to record a potentially dangerous situation, used to immobilize a threat for 1 hour (just an example of time) and once other people show up to help judge the situation, the actual facts discovered can be used to judge the case in any case.

1.
Abuse of the power(immobilize an innocent person = collateral damage of the least evil) and the convicted abuser has to restore any losses (costs) rendered to the victim by the abuser due to that loss of that hour in any case where the user of the device was "trigger happy" and the target of the device was immobilized for one hour for no good reason, and that could be a crucial hour having lost a lot of value in that one hour of lost time, so don't abuse the power, there will be blow back.

2.
That target where a user used that power was actually one of the few remaining criminals, not a legal criminal, not a criminal with a badge, a criminal none-the-less, and it was provable, discoverable, beyond any shadow of doubt, that the user of the device used the device defensively on that obviously aggressive criminal seeking to do harm to the innocent person in question, so the user of the device is fully justified in having a device, and the criminal is now known not to be trusted as much (innocent) in the next case, and no one in their right mind would sell a device to that criminal, unless that criminal can convince a device seller that that criminal is worthy of that device sold to him or her.

Not mandatory background checks, but hey, why not begin keeping an accurate record as to who can be trusted and who proves, beyond a shadow of doubt, that they cannot be trusted, or that they can be trusted to abuse the power they steal each and every time so far?

Break

Back

"I opened it because of the title (human nature). I would make a comment and add your Liberty Day link if ok with you."

You can save time and effort along these lines by trusting in your own judgment which, apparently, I trust more than you do, and feel confident in the fact that I will let you know if your communications appear to be non-competitive and adjustable toward a more competitive, a more accurate, viewpoint compared to what I can offer, from my angle of view.

Thanks for the links, I have yet to respond to another post in this thread, by you, a welcome response, and I have yet to pick up my guitar today, while doing chores, and so this will be it for today's drive up the steep hill in low gear.

Thanks, so much, it is encouraging to know that my viewpoint is not entirely unwelcome.

Joe

Signing

"Sign on IS spirit or sign on in actual reality"

2nd to last paragraph in your original 2013 post is it supposed to read

Sign on IN spirit or sign on in actual reality

Can you still click the edit tab to fix? Only asking because signing on in spirit gave me the liberty to sign on for some unkown reason. Perhaps it is halfway? But better than nothing at all? I can't really place the reason, except that it was liberating to say I would do it in spirit instead of putting my real name somewhere.

Just asking if it can be edited because I want to start directing comments to this page. There is a post on the front page about being in fear...that I think this would be a good link to. Thanks :)

Help is

Thanks

I think it is important to be accurate in spirit and accurate signs along the way help.

The Dodd link was useful but please note how very intelligent people appear to miss the point of usurpation from Liberty to Legal Crime which is traceable to that fraudulent "Constitutional Convention" leading to the Nation State (hidden behind a false front of Federalism). To harken back to The Declaration of Independence is one thing, and then to harken back to The Constitution is the opposite thing, not the same thing, as The Spirit of Liberty is communicated with The Declaration of Independence and that spirit was crushed by The Constitution, in the First Dictator in Chief's own official words (Whiskey Rebellion Proclamation), "so fatal as spirit" must be suppressed.

Monopoly (obedience to ONE false god) is the goal behind The Constitution. So those same monopolists were busy "educating" both Mr. Dodd and Mr. Griffin even before the "educating" business was picked up by Mr. Rockefeller and his generation.

This is not merely my opinion: the NEWS was broadcast by such persons as those statesmen who attended those Secret Proceedings in Philadelphia (later named a Constitutional Convention by historical revision) and by people like Patrick Henry who rose in opposition to the usurpation.

There is a link on this forum showing how prophetic Ron Paul has proven to be when speaking in the past about things that are now coming true, so, logically, why not say the same things about Patrick Henry's warnings about The Constitution, where his warnings have been very prophetic, very accurate, very detailed, and very true.

So the Institutionalizing of Conflicting Interests works this way, someone like me, someone pointing out how The Constitution is a "collectivist" enabler by design, as reported by those who opposed it before it was rammed down the throats of the victims, is deemed a heretic, someone like me must be opposed, someone like me must have his viewpoint suppressed, for some strange reason.

Accidental malinvestment of precious defensive power?

Hardly

Raise your hand if you have been duped, please.

Joe

Full Speed Ahead!

Thank you once again for your power towards my understanding.

You must know by now I am very focused on reality:
“2. Actual working examples measured (Reality)
a. Looking at all actual examples and understanding the common elements of all the examples
b. Looking at one specific example and understanding the common element by measuring how it works in reality”

I feel as if time is running out. It seems nearly every week the president signs a new liberty restraining executive order…the powers that be do not want to let go. They play dirty. Friends of Liberty do not play dirty. So yes, I want in reality to do something to change the landscape of this land from sea to shining sea such that Liberty is common place in the scenery.

I make the answer complicated because there is a very serious failure by many people to see past the Common NonSense or Brainwashing so as to get to something that resembles Common Sense better.”

Yes, I have had to read it 3 times to understand, but that is OK it is worth understanding and perhaps stretching my brain so eventually it will take only 1 time. I appreciate you taking the time to write everything out so carefully on my behalf, and of course anyone else that may be listening.
“2. Take a town such as Ithaca New York where they use Labor Dollars and compare that employment of that money, measure it, and do so in the general sense of how it works when it works without the links to The Dollar.”

How does Ithaca keep people from counterfeiting labor dollars?

I made a comment up under the Example 1 regarding Chamber of Commerce certificates. We have those in the Walmart town up the road. I wonder if Chamber of Commerce certificates are a common denominator in towns with a functioning chamber? At one point in time they were very pro-American (anti Russian Communist). I wonder if somehow those Chamber Dollars could be forged into a money competition by allowing labor to earn them as opposed to buying them with Fed money. That may be a network in place that could be used. Which is why I asked the counterfeiting question. Have you ever talked with anyone in Ithaca? I looked at Wiki yesterday and there are other towns with links with competitive currencies. I did not look them up though. Anyways, perhaps if there is a chamber member on the DP that is a friend of Liberty a conversation could be struck investigating the converting of Chamber Certificates to a competitive currency

As far as having to converting to the Legal Dollar Hegemony if somehow a flat tax could be imposed upon sales to get rid of the April 15 tax system, then the conversion could take place at the state level. Is there a difference between the US Mint and the Fed Reserve? Does the Fed have control of coinage or just paper?

Do you want me to start a tomato canning business LOL? I give my extra veggies away. I suppose I give too much, but it all comes back in one form or another. I think that perhaps is a competitive form of currency. Just start giving stuff away and people give stuff back all free will you know. Of course I don’t give away to get back. That is not the motive. Giving comes from the heart and love for others.

“Corporations cannot become corrupted.”

I don’t know how many times you are going to have to tell me that before I remember what I am supposed to remember. I suppose until I remember it without having to be told. I suppose I should rewrite that sentence: Because despotic sociopaths (oxymoron?) claw their way to the top of the individuals with power positions within the corporate structure, it is very possible for that corporate structure to become corrupted when the power resident in decision making belongs to those said sociopaths.

“Friends of Liberty cannot become corrupted, that is impossible, if a person resorts to deceit upon the innocent as a means of gaining power at the expense of the targeted innocent person, then that is no Friend of Liberty, that is a criminal, as that criminal defines crime by his or her thoughts (politics) and his or her actions (economy).”

I believe that is in constant flux. I had to work hard in my eBay business not to take advantage of others for my own gain. It was a temptation to not fully disclose information. I am sure that I am not the only one tempted with such evil. But then I guess that is how Non-Friends of Liberty are exposed, but they are exposed at a victim’s expense. I don’t know how it works operating a caterpillar, but is there ever temptation to not work as hard as possible or to take short cuts to the operator’s advantage over the customer’s? If so I think you can understand the temptation that is always at hand to overcome in order to pursue what is right. Will Friends of Liberty ALWAYS do what is right? Colossians 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

“Master/Slave relations employ deceptive/inaccurate mediums of exchange.”

What did you think about my slave write up? Was I off target as far as your competitive view? Just wondering. http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2599788 about halfway thru the post. I am always curious after you ask me a question and I give an answer without further comment by you. Perhaps I am so off target according to your point of view that you figure that there are more important battles wage? i.e., “Don’t sweat the small stuff.” Or as Andrews would say “The qualification is variously understood, and requires explanation—the explanations require qualifications to infinity.”

"Is there a difference between socialism and collectivism?"
I asked the above question because I watched: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAdu0N1-tvU&feature=related G Edward Griffin speak on Collectivism as being the goal of the Illegal Criminals.

I started listening to one of his videos yesterday where he started talking about definitions of terms. It sounded like definitions needed clarified before he continued. I got busy and didn’t have time to listen. I suppose that is a big problem: 1 word meaning two different things depending upon who is using it and what their goals are. I think that is my concern. Making sure that I am on the same page as what is intended by the end goal.
“This Legal Crime business (with Legal Fraud Money) is not new - Money Changers.”

Maybe that is why God’s Word says: 1 Timothy 6:10 “For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after , they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.” Many confuse it to say money is the root of all evil. That is not the case. It is the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil. Perhaps that is what determines true Friends of Liberty…those that love their neighbor and their God more than money or personal gain?

I enjoyed hearing about your cousin time. It is so good to spend time with people with whom the stumbling blocks are not insurmountable. Those with whom we can just pick up with where we left off the last time. I enjoyed hearing the beginning of Power Competition all the way to where workers are in demand! What a difference than today!
“When I say "competition" he heard "stabbing each other in the back"

I heard someone speaking in the last couple of days of capitalism: Monopoly Capitalism vs. Free Market Capitalism. Perhaps your cousin was hearing Monopoly Capitalism. It is very interesting that words are defined in the ears of the hearer and must be redefined by the author in order for equitable communication to take place. I think perhaps that true communication takes place when the hearer and the speaker are able to come to know that that the words are being said and heard in 2 different ways. Then once that point of disconnect is recognized a definition is offered and communication can commence equitably.

“Now see how transportation fuel is cost-less if electricity is costless”

Jeff keeps telling me it takes 9 years to break even on an electric car.

“Mike can see that too. Sure Global Warming is a problem…

Really? I think it is a false flag. Not particularly a crisis used for an end goal of control, but a generated crisis that has no truth to it.

“If you have Joe's Law well understood then you know that no one, anywhere, is going to gain advantage over anyone without POWER being available in the first place, and POWER is available, and I can borrow your welcome viewpoint here too, as God has given us all the POWER we can ever need, so what is the problem?”

My competitive view: Proverbs 20:26 A wise king scattereth the wicked, and bringeth the wheel over them.

First one has suppose that the king or government is wise and not wicked. With that first premise established, the wicked are made scares and so is their power by the decree of consolidated power in the king or government. With the wicked not consuming power there will be plenty of power for the innocent. However, I am afraid you might say might = right. But maybe the transverse should be applied right = might = liberty or power with the right used with might equals liberty which fixes the problem:

“The problem is not that we don't have access to abundant power, the problem is that some of us, actually few of us, CHOOSE to keep power from the rest of us, so that those few are then more powerful than the rest of us.”

However I do not know what your view is of government exerting power over the wicked.

“If that gains currency then I am all for it. If that experiment does not gain currency then I am still all for it. I don't do that myself because my time and energy, over the years on this path, are governed by lazy routines, occasionally I find inspiration in trying new things, and occasionally the connections I am connected to are disconnected by other people (banishment from a forum), and to me it is like being in low gear, not stopped, and not reverse, but being in low gear slowing climbing up a steep hill. I no longer expect to see the the top of the hill, and I no longer expect to see flat lands, and I no longer expect to see a downhill stretch.”

Mr. Kelley (with 2 e’s) There is a R3VOLution at hand. You must switch out of low gear now! It is time to press to the finish…full speed ahead! Time is short. How much time is left before the Gulag becomes a reality from sea to shining sea?

I was so hopeful when I was reading your Alex Jones experience. I thought you were going to give new and fabulous news of a new venue but was saddened when I got to the end. Is Celente’s forum up and running yet?

“I want to make the most of my life too, I'm not just a broken record.”

That is the part I am having a difficult time with. I cannot keep my mouth shut about the travesty of Lost Liberty. Perhaps I see too many paths as being parallel or perhaps blindly departing from the path of Liberty as the Legal Criminals try to lead to believe that they must be the guarantees of safety at the expense of freedom. It is alarming to me that others are not alarmed. Perhaps I am not making the most of my life and am in too high of a gear.

Thank you for your analysis on the Dodd link. I think it is very difficult for people to give up the Constitution. Perhaps it too has been used like moral fodder to keep patriotic and moral individuals attached to a power in a certain party.

I linked several comments back to this page yesterday. I guess to no avail. I will continue though as I am able. I did get some action on burning SS cards though LOL!

I am not going to go back thru and proof. I have a Monopoly game with a 10 year old at 2PM and want to read your Owners or Masters post before the game. It is fun as we see who can wipe who into the dust. I suppose conditioning starts early, but at least I don’t make him cry anymore. I am much too competitive. Thank you again.

Crime is tempting

"How does Ithaca keep people from counterfeiting labor dollars?"

Local counterfeiting may be easier to police compared to an effort by a foreign power to counterfeit so this is instructive in my opinion.

I've seen stories about the North Korean Communist Government spending what power they have collected on the work required to counterfeit Federal Reserve Notes or Dollar Bills - cash.

That could be very difficult to police or to defend against that massive an effort to commit fraud upon some large number of targeted victims; however as you probably know by now The Federal Reserve itself is a massive effort to commit fraud upon some large number of targeted victims.

A. Legal Crime competes with Legal Crime
B. Ithaca New York, a local government, defends against fraud in the form of counterfeiting

One is one thing, and the other is the opposite thing, and the scale of police work between the two is instructive. I think your question is a very good one, but the detailed answer is well out of my jurisdiction.

I can guess.

The locals don't like counterfeiters so they probably use a due process of some kind when they find a measurable example of a counterfeit labor note and as they seek to discover the source of that fraudulent note, as they follow that money to the source, and then during that due process they probably resort to some form of punishment, a fine, or jail time, or banishment, and chances are that the other locals are not going to give the convicted criminal convicted of counterfeiting any more credit, other than to credit the convict of having resorted to deceit as a means of gaining at the expense of targeted, innocent, victims.

Chances are that the notes are unique in a way that only the few legitimate producers of the note know and chances are that the secret design of the note is altered from time to time to keep that unique identification secret.

Chances are that the number of notes are well documented and accountable, by some means, and when more than the authorized number become known there is a method by which the foreign notes can be accurately identified.

Those are my guesses.

I think that Warren in his work had a few things to say about money design and production.

Crime is tempting, so there will be crime, and there are as many ways to skin a cat as their are cat skinners. Don't do what doesn't work, over and over again, such as making counterfeiting legal, and see what happens? What is the highest quality that money can reach while at the same time the lowest price of money is found?

I don't know.

The design of the money will be better than Legal Monopoly Fraud Money, and that won't be difficult to do, even if we all start using Gold and Silver coins, even that is better than Legal Monopoly Fraud Money, so it can't be too difficult to do better right away.

"I wonder if Chamber of Commerce certificates are a common denominator in towns with a functioning chamber?"

We both do this question asking, and we both seek the accurate answers, and our efforts are competitive compared to people who only think in terms of there being only ONE MONEY, and the contrast is remarkable.

A. Realizing the power of competitive money
B. Monopoly thoughts on money that shall not be questioned - ever

Is it like night and day to you too?

"I wonder if somehow those Chamber Dollars could be forged into a money competition by allowing labor to earn them as opposed to buying them with Fed money."

Here is where the connection is made between any competitive money and the Monopoly on Legal Power where The Federal Reserve Criminals connect to The Nation State (despotism) and there are points of connections, but the one point of significance is the IRS, or The Federal Income Tax FRAUD.

You have to pay your "liabilities" in Federal Reserve Notes.

Why?

The answer unravels the mystery.

Follow the money to the source, behind the curtain will be The Wizards of Oz, and they command the power of Legal Crime, they are the people, they have names, they command that power over all the other powers.

The National Debt is a whole lot of people owing a few people.

Who are the few people who are owed?

Those same people are the next generation to pick up the IRS deception, The Constitution deception, The Federal Reserve deception, and they already have in place many plans to get out of jail free, even if their victims discover the entirety of the crimes at hand, the current crimes, the current criminals, even if the victims discover everything, all at once, those few who command that much power are already well prepared to get away with torture and murder on massive scales.

We don't have to have anything to do with that whole dirty business, and that is the point, just walk away, and have a place to go ourselves, a means by which we Friends of Liberty can remain honestly and productively connected, with our due processes and our honest monies.

We don't have to Collapse on cue.

We don't have to attend or finance World War III.

But we have to work at inventing, producing, and maintaining crime free life, and that is not easy.

"Have you ever talked with anyone in Ithaca?" No, and there is another example closer to home, I think it is Carmel California where they too are experimenting with Local Currencies.

There is also historical examples, which I have linked, one was in Worgle Austria, a very instructive example.

Here:

http://www.umungu.com/scrip.htm

I don't know why I can't seem to bookmark the California example but I'll try to find it and bookmark it here:

OH wow how about this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_community_currencies_in...

It may have been Berkley California where I ran into a story on Local Currencies.

The link to the IRS is still connected so there must be, as yet, a conversion to The Dollar when paying "Federal" (actually National) taxes, and that is how the Frauds get the "competitive edge" despite having very poor and very expensive money, they just make everyone else use their money or else.

Remember the 16th Amendment: pay up and don't even question it.

They also say pay up in Federal Reserve Notes.

You have to convert to dollars when the IRS demands payment - or else.

No such thing works that way in a Democratic Federated Republic since the States pay Federal Taxes, not The People directly.

If the States are bound to pay according to a Constitution, and the agreed upon Constitution says that States pay The Federal Costs with Gold or Silver, then the States have to convert whatever money is in State Accounts to Gold and Silver when the Tax Man knocks on the door.

The people are free to move from one better State to another, to avoid being made into slaves, and that was the precedent, again, offered by Shays's Rebellion when the legal rebels moved to Vermont, running away from legal slavery in Massachusetts.

Who was paying The Federal Government?

The States, not The People.

Why did the Legal Criminals call a Secret Meeting in Philadelphia?

The ruse was to call a meeting to pay off the War Debt, where the States were owing those debts to various bill collectors, war profiteers, and I'm pretty sure that The French loaned credit in various forms and they were knocking and demanding payment too.

Hamilton was an English spy, according to some people. I don't know, but it fits. Hamilton was a self confessed Monarchist. England was a Monarchy.

The so called "anti" federalists (the other founders) tended to side with the French, while the English were, obviously, the enemy, the invaders, the aggressive war for profit people, the bad guys.

Ask Hamilton, what do you get?

You get a Legal Criminal seeking a National Banking Monopoly. Look at his mentor, a guy named Robert Morris, a Central Banker if ever one existed, as far as I know.

I wasn't there. I'm here, in the land of Crime made Legal. I can read.

I can even read numbers.

I can do math.

Amazing no?

"I looked at Wiki yesterday and there are other towns with links with competitive currencies. I did not look them up though. Anyways, perhaps if there is a chamber member on the DP that is a friend of Liberty a conversation could be struck investigating the converting of Chamber Certificates to a competitive currency"

Yea, I just found the same link. Amazing. How long before enough people realize what is really going on here in this country?

"Is there a difference between the US Mint and the Fed Reserve? Does the Fed have control of coinage or just paper?"

The obvious thing to do is what Ron Paul maps out, to return to a Republic, and disconnect the productive people from the Federal part of the government. The States deal with their Federal Government, we don't, we can pick and choose which States are offering the better deal. The Federal government has no power over the people other than the powers strictly enumerated in the Law of the Land.

Sure, sure, The Constitution was an abomination, but The Bill of Rights chain that Obama Nation if Honest Statesmen are hired to read and interpret those laws and then act honorably according to those restrictions.

No, you can't barge in and just steal from me, sorry dude, that is against the law.

It depends upon what is is?

Who hires these guys?

They are sociopaths.

They are psychopaths.

They are criminals and actual people give them badges, feed them well, and reward them with unchecked, unlimited POWER.

What can be expected?

"Do you want me to start a tomato canning business LOL?"

These things that can be seen once the DOOM DAY PARADE is exposed as a fraud are things of hope, actual reality looking better - no?

"Because despotic sociopaths (oxymoron?) claw their way to the top of the individuals with power positions within the corporate structure, it is very possible for that corporate structure to become corrupted when the power resident in decision making belongs to those said sociopaths."

These are the words that are missing in our social structure, the missing information, the accurate currency that does not flow as is should be flowing, to then be inspiring resistance, invention, adaptation, and the animated contest of freedom.

"I don’t know how it works operating a caterpillar, but is there ever temptation to not work as hard as possible or to take short cuts to the operator’s advantage over the customer’s?"

Cat skinning is the term used to describe what a Bulldozer operator does, and of course there is temptation and weakness during animated contests of freedom, but a competitive spirit is what it is, not what it is not, so the power drives adaptation, invention, production, to be better today than yesterday, and what alternatives exist?

Be worse today than yesterday?

Where does that Long Black Train end up going?

"Read up on the year of Jubilee, God’s Economy. Everything is reset each 50 years. No chance for Legal Crime to become a dominant factor?"

The use of the word equity, in any language, is to me the opposite of the use of the word slavery. The nature of the connection from a power perspective is costly for one or costly for both or beneficial for one or beneficial for both in any case. There are ways of measuring.

If one is voluntarily made less powerful so as to make someone else more powerful then that is equitable, it is called Charity.

Just words.

Power actually flows.

Slavery is when innocent people are made weaker so as to make evil people stronger.

Your bible verses and your own words on the subject of slavery were instructive, thanks, and since reading those words that you published earlier I've read something on the issue of Sex Slavery.

There has been a connection made between the recent NEWS about the football coach incident with children and The Franklin Case, if you remember The Franklin Case was the Sex Slave Trade being traced back to Washington or the "Federal" government, and then it was squashed, crushed, "thou shalt not question" unlimited POWER.

Don't feed the Legal Criminals.

They grow powerful enough to dictate exactly how much power they will take from whomever they choose to take whatever they choose to take without limit.

"I am always curious after you ask me a question and I give an answer without further comment by you. Perhaps I am so off target according to your point of view that you figure that there are more important battles wage? i.e., “Don’t sweat the small stuff.” Or as Andrews would say “The qualification is variously understood, and requires explanation—the explanations require qualifications to infinity.”"

I do tend to focus on the money issue, but there are many battles going on. Why not fight the cause instead of the symptoms?

"It is the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil. Perhaps that is what determines true Friends of Liberty…those that love their neighbor and their God more than money or personal gain?"

Even Karl Marx can say as much. Deeds tend to confess true motives.

_______________________________________
“Now see how transportation fuel is cost-less if electricity is costless”

Jeff keeps telling me it takes 9 years to break even on an electric car.

“Mike can see that too. Sure Global Warming is a problem…

Really? I think it is a false flag. Not particularly a crisis used for an end goal of control, but a generated crisis that has no truth to it.
_________________________________________

The earth grows measurably hotter or cooler from year to year, from century to century, and therefore there is Global Warming, a factual measure of reality, when there is Global Warming.

If the cause of Global Warming is CO2 burning from Petroleum (what is falsely called "fossil fuels") then why is it a problem when Algae can be made by almost anyone as a source of motor fuel and Algae consumes CO2?

What is the actual problem, and what is the actionable solution?

There is a Legal Money Monopoly for example.

Is that an actual problem?

I supposedly owe some hundreds of thousands of DOLLARS to some mysterious nobody?

What is the solution?

Use honest money instead.

This isn't rocket science; but a particular species of Algae can make rocket fuel, or so I've heard.

Someday the Earth will run out of power.

Is that a problem?

Why not find out if people can live on Mars?

Just in case.

"However I do not know what your view is of government exerting power over the wicked."

Government as dictated by evil people or competitive government chosen voluntarily by individuals engaged in animated contests in freedom? One is not the other so I prefer not to confuse the two.

"How much time is left before the Gulag becomes a reality from sea to shining sea?"

News of the demise of Liberty may be premature, so a balance of making the best of life includes power spent in defense, power spent in productive activity, and power spent inventing a better way.

It is possible that my lazy routines are keeping me from seizing opportunity, but my eyes are open, what is the next thing on the list?

Someone might suggest buying more ammo or another gun.

Someone might suggest voting for Ron Paul.

Someone might suggest earning more dollars and getting out of all debts.

Someone might suggest running for congress.

I'm leaning toward a concealed carry permit. I had this dream of being cornered like a rat and I had no way to fight back at that moment in time and in that place.

You may be in a better position to go faster, less to lose if you jump the gun (because you are more careful), while my history, and my experience suggests to me that I am careless, reckless, and prone to very serious errors.

If you and I can report on our progress at our relative velocity the messages may help other people find a better way too?

"Is Celente’s forum up and running yet?"

Good question.

"Perhaps I am not making the most of my life and am in too high of a gear."

The analogy works if you are on a downhill stretch there is no need to stay in 1st gear.

"Thank you for your analysis on the Dodd link. I think it is very difficult for people to give up the Constitution. Perhaps it too has been used like moral fodder to keep patriotic and moral individuals attached to a power in a certain party."

Then there is the Bill of Rights. Can politicians read?

Does it depend upon what is is?

Who hires these guys?

"I am much too competitive."

Too much of a good thing is difficult to understand? When it is too much it isn't a good thing is it?

Joe

Catching Up

This was mostly written 2 weeks ago...some toward the bottom was written today. So some may be outdated, and questions already answered. I did not want to spend too much time on it, but wanted to put it out there for you if you in case there is anything of interest to you.

RE: Ithaca, Now that I have signed on in spirit to find competitive forms of currency, and I am of the practical sort, I wonder if I should talk to someone in Ithaca to see how they implemented their program? What do you think? Should I be that serious? The other issue I see is that I live in a rural town of 700 where most are on disability or are retired. We have limited commerce in our town. Those that do work are either big farmers or work in nearby towns. So, I cannot see implementing a competitive currency in my town, unless it was something like electricity or a commodity that was actually needed, however, I would have to take payment in Fed Dollars because that is the source the local peoples money, which then defeats the purpose.

The next option I see is Chamber Dollars. However, we do not have a chamber in our town, I am not a member of a chamber, and I am not a mover and shaker. But I do see that as a viable nation-wide option. What are your serious thoughts on investigating that option?

RE Chamber Dollars: “We both do this question asking, and we both seek the accurate answers, and our efforts are competitive compared to people who only think in terms of there being only ONE MONEY, and the contrast is remarkable.
A. Realizing the power of competitive money
B. Monopoly thoughts on money that shall not be questioned - ever
Is it like night and day to you too?”

I have gone from being afraid of doing anything to being skeptical, to being suspicious, to signing on in spirit. I think it is a process. I think most people do not want to invest the time. The other thing is I may be as strange as you since no one else seems to care enough to discuss the options and pursuing practical reality.

Austrian Stamp Script: So if I am understanding correctly, each time a stamp was placed on the money it reduced its value 1% thus causing people to be in a spending frenzy so as to spend their money before the month was up? Have you looked at this part of the Austrian Stamp Script site? http://www.umungu.com/about.htm
Are you a member of their forum?

Hmm, Checked out the List of Community currencies. Looks like there are plenty out there. So why do we need to invent more? Is the idea to get something implemented in our own local? Looks like Chamber bucks are already at play here in Missouri in Maryville. However the Maryville wiki site doesn’t say anything about it. I wonder how the alternative forms of currencies used in the towns on that website have stimulated the local economies and benefited the individuals residing therein?

I listened to another G. Edward Griffin video last night: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kJm8DVoiGw&feature=related. I find his viewpoint easy to understand and informative as well as instruction. The video was a dissertation on Fabian and Marxist/Leninist Collectivism. Griffen sees Legal Crime taking place thru Collectivism and discusses the Leninist plan of action since under Marxism the Workers of the World failed to unite. He discusses taking practical action; however, I fear Friends of Liberty may be too lazy. I don’t know. It is easier for me to talk/write than do anything. Of course talking and writing is currency, but perhaps action combined with those avenues would make currency more powerful?. Griffen has been at this since the 60’s.
“The people are free to move from one better State to another, to avoid being made into slaves, and that was the precedent, again, offered by Shays's Rebellion when the legal rebels moved to Vermont, running away from legal slavery in Massachusetts.
Who was paying The Federal Government?
The States, not The People.
Why did the Legal Criminals call a Secret Meeting in Philadelphia?
The ruse was to call a meeting to pay off the War Debt, where the States were owing those debts to various bill collectors, war profiteers, and I'm pretty sure that The French loaned credit in various forms and they were knocking and demanding payment too.”

Earlier this week, I have asked fellow DPer’s some questions regarding history. I was told by one person that part of the reason for the constitution is that they were having trouble getting people to pay taxes. Were people tax-dodging? Now I can see how that would be competitive for the people, but not for the states. Do you know anything about that? Also wondering about sources on Washington being in Hamilton’s pocket. Some people say Washington was wealthy and independent and could not be bought. I am still trying to work thru what I have been taught and what is the truth and what you have told me. I want to know and believe the truth. How do you know you know the truth? Neither of us lived during that time period and so we (in general) have to depend on the words and recounted history of others. How is one to know whose history is is true?

Jeff and I had a little discussion this morning on the term “These” United States vs. “The” United States as he helped me with my Veterans News Now comment (I wanted his competitive opinion since I was posting on another site beside the DP). I told him we have to quit using politically correct terminology even if it has been around 100 or more years. Words carry meaning, so I have come to understand, and there is power resident in using the correct words.
“Hamilton was an English spy, according to some people. I don't know, but it fits. Hamilton was a self confessed Monarchist. England was a Monarchy.”
Yes, so when I throw those questions out on the DP, I really don’t have a leg to stand on when getting a reply because I don’t know about things like

“…a Legal Criminal seeking a National Banking Monopoly. Look at his mentor, a guy named Robert Morris, a Central Banker if ever one existed, as far as I know.”

But how again do you know that G. Washington was in on it? I reread the info on missus (I think) regarding Washington’s treatment of the individualist in the army and how he homogenized them into a European style army and would not allow the guerilla warfare, etc., and changed the pay scale so that the commanders received more in comparison to the soldiers, and how congress would not allow him to give 500 lashes instead of the standard 39. Lashes for what. 500? Is that the “or worse?” I am not a military expert so I don’t know what is best as far as forming an army.

I am also understanding about cultural Marxism that it is important to remove the trusted and honored sources of societal authority in order to make the state the granter of all wisdom and supply. How does one know if they have been impacted by those disinformation sources?

How important is it to get to the beginning source of the trouble?
ME: "Is there a difference between the US Mint and the Fed Reserve? Does the Fed have control of coinage or just paper?"
YOU: “The obvious thing to do is what Ron Paul maps out, to return to a Republic, and disconnect the productive people from the Federal part of the government. The States deal with their Federal Government, we don't, we can pick and choose which States are offering the better deal. The Federal government has no power over the people other than the powers strictly enumerated in the Law of the Land. “

After I wrote this yesterday I listened to an another G. Edward Griffen video. It was sort of a question and answer session. I can’t remember verbatim, and that is something I need to work at, but the gist was that just ending the Fed would not be good enough because those same power sources would just move to the US Mint and pick up where the Fed left off. It is troubling to listen something and know it in my head but not know it well enough to restate it to someone else. I suppose that is the difference between listening and studying; listening while cooking and cleaning as opposed to hanging on every word and taking notes.

“Sure, sure, The Constitution was an abomination, but The Bill of Rights chain that Obama Nation if Honest Statesmen are hired to read and interpret those laws and then act honorably according to those restrictions. “

Griffen spoke of the Constitution as a limiting document, not a power granting document as far as the government was concerned. Jefferson said something to the effect that the constitution was to chain power down.

ME: "Do you want me to start a tomato canning business LOL?"
YOU: These things that can be seen once the DOOM DAY PARADE is exposed as a fraud are things of hope, actual reality looking better - no?

Actually I made zucchini and squash for the 2nd time this summer now that the squash bearing and the first time I used store bought canned tomatoes. Yesterday, I used the tomatoes I canned myself last summer. The end product was much better! Canning tomatoes is a lot of work and I barely accomplished much of it last year because I was to busy with my eBay business. Hopefully I will get more canned this summer!

“Cat skinning is the term used to describe what a Bulldozer operator does, and of course there is temptation and weakness during animated contests of freedom, but a competitive spirit is what it is, not what it is not, so the power drives adaptation, invention, production, to be better today than yesterday, and what alternatives exist? “

My cousin in Idaho operates heavy machinery. Not sure what kind, but I have always thought it must be a wonderful world for him going from playing with those toy machines with his hands when a little boy to actually driving one. That realization came after I had boys and watched them playing with those Tonka toys. I have a nephew that is 10 who can operate a smallish front end loader and rear blade. His dad, big farmer, had a pile of gravel dumped for their drive and my nephew spread the whole thing himself and loved every minute of it!

“Be worse today than yesterday?”

So where to you get your work ethic? Was it instilled? I had a boss ask me that one time. You know, those management reviews when they tell you how great you are, well I always received O for Outstanding, so I guess they were trying to figure out why I am the way I am. I pointed back at my dad. He was driven, but a workaholic. I also pointed to that verse I have told you about doing my work as unto the Lord.

Yes, I have seen news stories but have not read them as I really don’t want to know anymore about Franklin and that Creep of a Coach. It turns my stomach and makes me sick and it makes me mad and I want to cry.

I have also seen a post on the DP to look into Nebraska regarding the Paul Delegates because of the Franklin Case.
WRITTEN CURRENT_______________________________________
“Someday the Earth will run out of power.”

Are you saying the sun will burn out? Or the Legal Criminals will take all the power? How is Earth going to run out of power?
_____________________
“Government as dictated by evil people or competitive government chosen voluntarily by individuals engaged in animated contests in freedom? One is not the other so I prefer not to confuse the two.”

Is voluntary competitive government Anarchism?

“News of the demise of Liberty may be premature, so a balance of making the best of life includes power spent in defense, power spent in productive activity, and power spent inventing a better way.
It is possible that my lazy routines are keeping me from seizing opportunity, but my eyes are open, what is the next thing on the list?
Someone might suggest buying more ammo or another gun.
Someone might suggest voting for Ron Paul.
Someone might suggest earning more dollars and getting out of all debts.
Someone might suggest running for congress.
I'm leaning toward a concealed carry permit. I had this dream of being cornered like a rat and I had no way to fight back at that moment in time and in that place. “

You know about the UN universal disarmament treaty that is being worked right now? I think every sensible, dependable, sane person from sea to shining sea should get one of those permits NOW. It is time to push back and I see that as a way to push back. You want our guns? Well, look we all have conceal and carry permits, come and take them away. It may be a foolish thought of mine, but I am sick of being pushed into a corner.
“You may be in a better position to go faster, less to loose if you jump the gun, while my history, and my experience suggests to me that I am careless, reckless, and prone to very serious errors.”

I don’t know what that means.
“Too much of a good thing is difficult to understand? When it is too much it isn't a good thing is it?”

When I make my children cry because I wipe them into the dirt while playing monopoly. However, now that they are getting older and wiser they know they are not always winners, but they are also getting harder to beat!

...

Finishing

Finishing up this reply:

I thought I could read through this and sleep on it, but I am going to stop here:

"I wonder how the alternative forms of currencies used in the towns on that website have stimulated the local economies and benefited the individuals residing therein?"

The FED can do 3 things:

1. Take more Legal Money out of circulation.
2. Leave the same amount of Legal Money in circulation.
3. Put more Legal Money into circulation.

Anyone, anywhere, having a competitive network connected by a competitive Medium of Exchange, in direct competition with The FED, will have the power in place required to make the FED less powerful.

If the FED is causing a BUST in your Network, you can make that BUST that they cause, as they take Legal Money out of circulation, less destructive.

If the FED is not causing BUST or BOOM in your Network, you can keep your Network supplied with the equitable money power as is demanded, not too much, and not too little, and since the FED isn't doing anything to BUST or BOOM your Network, then your power is as good as your power is, and that has nothing to do with the FED, since the FED isn't doing anything harmful.

If the FED is causing a BOOM in your Network , you can make that BOOM that they cause, as they add more Legal Money to your Network, less destructive because the power to regulate the supply to meet the demand can be controlled by you with your own equitable money which can be much better than any Fraud money merely because it isn't Fraudulent.

I wanted to get that out, and I will return to this later, probably tomorrow.

"So if I am understanding correctly, each time a stamp was placed on the money it reduced its value 1% thus causing people to be in a spending frenzy so as to spend their money before the month was up?"

I am not a local kind of political economist, I am convinced of the need to work on the large scale, because we now have the tool to do that anarchistically, or in a Liberated fashion, where no one has any more legal power than anyone else, or where there is no legal crime power that has any power over us.

I don't like money. I prefer to touch it as little as possible. I don't want to spend any of my power on money.

You may find local currencies to be very beneficial in any case that you may find a use for it.

The information available confirms the existence of, and the practicality of, local currencies.

My thinking such that Product 1 and Product 2 (previously outlined) offered world wide, on the largest scale, by any competitor, to any consumer, anytime, anywhere, will fix what can be fixed in political economy.

Why mess around with less accurate, less powerful, and more costly money ever?

In this way I am biased.

Please don't allow me to get in your way of reaching your goals, I do not want to discourage further investigations into competitive forms of money, I am merely reporting how my work has paid off into 2 competitive forms of Legal Money as described as Product 1 and Product 2.

My search has arrived at a final product.

As to Stamp Script specifically:

The concept of adding a stamp to the money is understandable, to me, as negative interest money.

You are already well aware of interest bearing money, since you have already expressed understanding concerning mortgage interest rates.

You have been shown a form of money that has made interest against the law. The example is Islamic Finance.

1.
Positive Interest
2.
No Interest

What is missing?

Here:

1.
Positive Interest
That which we in The Dollar Hegemony use generally
2.
No Interest
That which is gaining currency exponentially worldwide in Islamic Finance
3.
Negative Interest
Stamp Script, that which has worked in some historical situations such as the Worgle Austria case

Details:

1. Positive Interest

If you hold onto money with positive interest, in theory and in practice generally, you gain purchasing power, or you are rewarded for holding onto money with positive interest, as you "make money make money", and here is where "it takes money to make money", since a little money can "generate" a little interest and a lot of money can "generate" a lot of interest.

How much money do you need to generate enough interest to be "independently wealthy"?

or

What is an average return on interest investments on the minimum amount in a savings account whereby the rate of return is sufficient to finance an elaborate lifestyle?

Numbers on a check each month speak better than words.

If I get a check each month of 1 million dollars, to spend, as I please, then it could be said that I am independently wealthy, so how much do I need in my savings account, at a minimum, to get that check every month, for doing nothing but spending 1 million dollars a month?

Moving on:

2. No Interest

Money has no affect on investment strategies. It does not take money to make more money. Other things, other than money, are required in determining what is needed to accomplish which economic goals.

3. Negative Interest

Money can be used as a tool to speed up an economic network as the medium of exchange is designed to penalize anyone holding onto money. Call it the hot potato plan. If you have a potato you want to get rid of it because it burns you big time. Here is where the term "velocity" becomes readily apparent with accurate measures of what actually happens when this hot potato plan is put into action.

Austrian Economists, or Gold Bugs, won't touch these things with ten foot poles. It is not in their interest to do so, and oddly enough the Gold Bugs confirm the fact that Gold does not generate any interest.

Gold actually generates costs, or negative interest, if you want to know the facts. You can't leave gold laying around, visible, for anyone to see, and therefore hiding it, or securing it will cost someone something.

How much gold do "we" have left in Fort Knox?

Did "we" not spend enough money on keeping that horde of gold secure?

"Griffen sees Legal Crime taking place thru Collectivism and discusses the Leninist plan of action since under Marxism the Workers of the World failed to unite."

Warren, on the other hand, uses the term Civilized Cannibalism and "Combinations" as "other words", and they are competitive words, compared to "Collectivism" as the culprit.

My words, in my opinion, are even more competitive that Griffin or Warren. I get to the point faster, it seems to me.

Criminals create involuntary associations and they do so by resorting to deceit upon innocent victims, and they do so by resorting to threats of violence upon innocent victims, and they do so by destroying innocent victims slowly or quickly, with torture and mass murder, and they know enough to make their crimes legal, and that is "collectivism" in so many words, and that is "civilized cannibalism" in so many words, and that is Evil in so many words, but my word choices are intending to be accurate and efficient, not too little and not too many words.

What is the problem?

People are being paid very well for their choice to resort to deceit, threats of violence, and violence upon innocent victims because they have taken the power to determine how much their jobs pay them, and the victims are told not to question those orders to pay them for doing the work they choose to do.

What is the solution?

Equitable Commerce.

In what forms?

The best forms which are the least costly forms.

How about Labor Dollars?

Sure, if that works.

How about Product 1 and Product 2.

Why not?

What are the best forms of Equitable Commerce where the best forms cost the least?

How can the answer be found out?

If you ask, do you really want to know the answer?

Yes

OK

How about this, then?

1.
Stop enforcing legal tender laws at the National Level (and return to a Democratic Federated Republic designed to be a limited constitutional government of competitive State Legal Fictions joined voluntary into a Confederation).

2.
Stop enforcing National Level Income Tax (and return to a Democratic Federated Republic designed to be a limited constitutional government of competitive State Legal Fictions joined voluntary into a Confederation).

3.
Order the American Military Forces to stop committing crimes against humanity and return home to defend against all enemies foreign and domestic, and when they follow those orders they can actually be following the Uniform Code of Military Justice instead of being outlaws in their own military units as they follow immoral laws that are unconstitutional by any honest interpretation of the actual laws on the books.

Product 1 and Product 2, or somethings very much like them, will happen because the best and least costly forms of money will be supplied to that demand in a Free Market.
______________________________________________________

"I was told by one person that part of the reason for the constitution is that they were having trouble getting people to pay taxes. Were people tax-dodging?"

My wife allows me to waste my time writing a lot, because she thinks I have a nice hobby, or that I am avoiding other dangerous activities, such as Hang Gliding, which was a lot of fun, but in reality I am investing. Some day the things I know will be in high demand.

A Federation or Confederation or Democratic Federated Republic does not connect the Federal arm of POWER directly to The People in general (all the people, without exception), because doing so will ruin the limiting function of the concept, or the idea, whereby the "Government" is limited by a strict set of rules.

As in:

Rule 1:

Do not allow the Federal employees, those people hired by people, to gain too much power, such as the power to pay themselves any amount of money for doing anything they please.

What does that mean in real terms?

Do not tax the people directly from The Federal Level.

No IRS.

Rule 1:

NO IRS

That "goes without saying" if you understand.

If you don't understand, then you should.

Some people say:

"I was told by one person that part of the reason for the constitution is that they were having trouble getting people to pay taxes."

Is someone speaking about details, perhaps, but not principles?

There should be NO DIRECT TAXATION by the Federal employes upon The People. Therefore, if you do understand that, then it follows, reasonably, that it is good, not bad, if the federal employees are having trouble collecting taxes from The People directly.

That is like saying: The criminals, who have made their crimes legal, are having trouble stealing from their victims.

Yea, hooray, with trouble like that who needs Friends of Liberty?

So, they are having trouble.

So what?

So?

So?

Sew buttons on your underwear.

"I was told by one person that part of the reason for the constitution is that they were having trouble getting people to pay taxes."

"Were people tax-dodging?"

The answer is:

State employees from New Jersey, for example, hired by The People in New Jersey, and hired to run, or ruin, New Jersey, were using the POWER of MONEY to force the Federal Employes, who were hired by the people hired to run New Jersey, to stop doing what they were not paid to do, and to start doing what they were paying them to do, or those employees at the federal level can forget about being paid at all.

So?

Again I harken back to the wisdom attributed to none-the-less than Albert Einstein, and I, at this point, ask if there is similar wisdom in The Good Book, since you may be handy, ready, willing, and quite able to answer questions about the Bible.

http://rescomp.stanford.edu/~cheshire/EinsteinQuotes.html

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."

If the golden rule is too simple, then what?

Chicken butt?

How about a Democratic Federated Republic?

What is it?

Wouldn't you like to know?

Who is the authority?

The People.

Can't you read?

Read what?

The Declaration of Independence

The Articles of Confederation

The Bill of Rights

What about The Constitution?

No, that is dictatorial, or are you one of The People who was brainwashed?

I'm asking, you see, I'm trying to figure out who is a Friend of Liberty and who has been turned to the other side; by hook or by crook.

"Were people tax-dodging?"

Who?

How about Daniel Shays?

Are we speaking ambiguously or are we trying to get to some point?

"Earlier this week, I have asked fellow DPer’s some questions regarding history. I was told by one person that part of the reason for the constitution is that they were having trouble getting people to pay taxes. Were people tax-dodging? Now I can see how that would be competitive for the people, but not for the states. Do you know anything about that?"

I can answer, but will you listen? How deep does falsehood go into your thick scull? Perhaps it wasn't thick enough?

The more despotic States like Massachusetts were trying to get away with torture and mass murder, aggressive wars for profit, and The People, like Daniel Shays had enough, so those veterans of The Revolutionary War did their duty, again, and resisted absolute despotism at home, enemies domestic, and all that, and they did so against The Constitution of Massachusetts as that law was interpreted by Legal Criminals hired to secure property owned by a select few.

What does it say in the Declaration of Independence?

I can quote the official version:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Does it say anything about the property of a few very wealthy Legal Criminals, such as a license to make people use one money, which is an exclusive property right given by some criminals to some other criminals and done all nice and legal?

Apparently that fine print was missing at that time, somewhere, not handy.

It says right here, dude, you have to obey my every command, and if you don't, I have the duty to crush you, and on top of that, I have the exclusive right to make you pay for my trouble of having to crush you, and you can't even question this legal fact.

So shut up and take it.

Daniel Shays failed to defend his home, but he was able to run away from the slave masters and he ran up into Vermont.

The slave masters in Massachusetts said give me my runaway slaves back, and those slaves were giving us trouble concerning taxes that we said they owe us, so give us our property back, forthwith.

Basically Vermont employees said no, and perhaps they added: "You and what army says I have to return runaway slaves and "tax evaders"?"

Massachusetts employees had no legal standing to order Vermont employees to give back the tax evaders.

That is how a Confederation is supposed to work, and not just according to my opinion.

No direct connection between the federal employees and the people who hire the people who run their States. The people who are hired to run the States hire people to run the Federal government, and those employees at the State level pay those employees at the Federal level when or if they feel like it.

Who is claiming ownership of The People - exactly?

Massachusetts employees are claiming ownership of The People, so, logically, and as a rule, we fight back against such tyranny, but if we lose, well, what next: options, options, options, how about Pennsylvania, how about Vermont?

What happens if the demons take over the Federal government?

You mean nationalists creating nationalism nation wide?

Yea that: what then?

Excuse me, but the answer is rather vulgar.

Don't be vulgar.

I'm not, don't blame me, blame the vulgar ones, and I mean seriously vulgar ones, they make torture legal, how much more vulgar can anyone get?

I don't know.

Well, how about legal mass murder, targeting funerals and weddings, how about that?

Is there any limit?

Stop paying them so well for torture and mass murder and guess what might happen?

"Also wondering about sources on Washington being in Hamilton’s pocket."

This reply is already running on, but I can be more specific on that to a large degree or a small degree.

Washington had land holdings which were threatened by many factors having to do with who got paid what, at what price, and Washington made sure that he was paid with land titles. Hamilton feared the loss of power over legal debt. The connection between Hamilton and Washington on getting Washington to flip flop on his word to retire is well documented. Washington was not good with money, so he was actually cash poor, or so the story goes.

"How do you know you know the truth? Neither of us lived during that time period and so we (in general) have to depend on the words and recounted history of others. How is one to know whose history is is true?"

This goes back to the question repeated by Noam Chomsky and this time I will get the actual quote, since Noam was repeating something asked by someone else, so this time I will credit the known source of the question:

"How comes it that human beings, whose contacts with the world are brief and personal and limited, are nevertheless able to know so much as they do know?"(Bertrand Russel quoted by Noam Chomsky in On Language)

I think it is the same question as yours. I don't have to torture people by hand to know that torturing people will ruin my capacity to find happiness. Now, you may ask, did I read that somewhere, and I can say yes, here and there, I read that, and know I know that to be true, and I don't even have to make that mistake myself, personally, I don't have to even go there, at all, I know it to be true.

I don't have to provide the means by which I suffer to know better than to provide the means by which I suffer.

Did I read that somewhere?

Yes, I did.

Did I have to read that somewhere to know it?

No, I don't think so, I could be the first one to figure it out, but I don't stare at the sun, yet I pay taxes.

Who can I trust for what?

I guess that is the point.

I'm asking myself. I'm asking you. What is the point?

"But how again do you know that G. Washington was in on it?"

I don't. Washington, from what I've read, had land title holdings, and not much cash, so he was inspired to go back on his word to retire, and so he got back in the "moving on a grand scale" business to save his land titles, if nothing else. Washington probably didn't understand the debt based legal monopoly money business, probably not if he was cash poor.

"I am not a military expert so I don’t know what is best as far as forming an army."

I have much to offer on this point concerning my study of German Military History, Fighter Aircraft, and an American Air Force Fighter Pilot named John Boyd, suffice to say that meritocracy works to reach a specific goal. Interestingly too, there is the work done by Orson Scott Card in his Science Fiction Ender Series. This subject can cover volumes and please recall that there are two obvious examples of socialism that are obviously within that definition as such:

1.
The Family
2.
The Military

Both can be voluntary, both can be involuntary, and both are well within the strict definitions of socialism.

I'm not making this stuff up either, I am merely the messenger boy, and yes the deception runs very deep, and that is why a lot of people slam the door shut whenever the light of truth begins to shine into the very dark room.

"I am also understanding about cultural Marxism that it is important to remove the trusted and honored sources of societal authority in order to make the state the granter of all wisdom and supply. How does one know if they have been impacted by those disinformation sources?"

Were I living in Venezuela or Cuba I'd work more on Marx, I don't, so I work more on the Austrians, like Rothbard and Mises.

Marx is the lefts Mises and to me Rothbard is our Lenin.

If I were in "The East" (or the backyard) then I'd be warning everyone to stop fighting the foreign enemies according to the domestic enemies demands. I'd have the same message, using different labels.

Don't look at the sun too long.

Why is that difficult?

"How important is it to get to the beginning source of the trouble?"

Exactly. The most competitive questions first.

"Griffen spoke of the Constitution as a limiting document, not a power granting document as far as the government was concerned. Jefferson said something to the effect that the constitution was to chain power down."

I do not understand how people can arrive at that conclusion, and the only thing I can come up with, to their credit, is that they are ignorant. One reading of Patrick Henry's speech in opposition of The Constitution must result in an opposite viewpoint compared to that false notion of "The Constitution" being a "limiting document".

If they confuse The Declaration of Independence (written by Jefferson and Jefferson was not around when The Dirty Compromises were done to create "The Constitution") with The Constitution and they further confuse those previous two documents with The Bill of Rights, then that can lead to even more confusion - I suppose.

I've shown you the actual words in The Constitution giving Washington the power he needed to crush "so fatal a spirit" as the spirit where it is an individual's duty to resist criminal governments.

What more proof is needed?

I don't get it.

I can only guess, and my best guess is, if I am going to give anyone any credit, is that they are ignorant of the facts.

"Hopefully I will get more canned this summer!"

If times get worse or better, your work is still as valuable. What is the point!

"His dad, big farmer, had a pile of gravel dumped for their drive and my nephew spread the whole thing himself and loved every minute of it!"

That is another thing that proves the point, and is shared by such people as Ron Paul, and why not, what is the point? If the point isn't "the pursuit of happiness", then I'm a monkey's uncle.

"I also pointed to that verse I have told you about doing my work as unto the Lord."

I may have a similar incentive to do good work, just not as specifically traced to that fine point. Back when I made a deal with God and the Devil to be their mediator, at age 9 or so, I took it upon myself to clean the bathroom. Since then I take it upon myself to employ my power to make things better, but I'm a really slow starter, and I make a lot of mistakes, like "providing the means by which we suffer" and the numbers are damning - lots of taxes paid.

"Are you saying the sun will burn out? Or the Legal Criminals will take all the power? How is Earth going to run out of power?"

That was in reference to the Sun running out of power, yes, time in the eyes of God is what? I can only guess. The age of the sun a mere moment, like blinking an eye?

"Is voluntary competitive government Anarchism?"

True anarchism or the counterfeit version?

The really smart thing about anarchism, the true version, is that each individual is the authority on government and the people who overpower any other person is outside of that viewpoint.

If you decide to volunteer to be a anarchist then you get to make government anything you want, but as soon as you force your version of government on anyone else, that moment is where you depart. You use deceit upon the innocent, then that is outside of anarchism, and that is well into involuntary government.

You use threats of violence upon the innocent, again, you volunteer to join some other form of government: no longer anarchism.

You, anyone, not only you, anyone, attacks an innocent person, to make them conform to your version of government, and guess what?

So words mean little compared to action in anarchism.

You do things, you are an anarchist.

You don't do things, you are an anarchist.

You do other things, you volunteer to join something else.

You don't do other things, again, you volunteer to join something else.

What are the right things?

Whatever works for you.

What are the wrong things?

Whatever you force onto innocent people against their knowledge or against their will.

Who is the boss?

Look in the mirror, or don't, I'm not your boss.

Just being alive is anarchism, by this way of defining anarchism. You govern you.

Who else governs you?

Just you, unless you say otherwise.

You govern no one else.

Why?

Who do you ask for the official answer?

Look in the mirror.

Which anarchism do you want to know about?

You have to go to the mirror for the official answer.

If you want a counterfeit version, again, you have to look in the mirror.

Who can you trust?

Back to the mirror you go.

Who can you blame.

Again, you have have to get up, go to the bathroom, or if you have a mirror in your purse, look there, there is all the authority that exists in anarchism.

If you decide to injure someone else, against their will, then your victim was unmade an anarchist by you, not them, they could still be happy in their own government had you not invaded, occupied, tortured, and otherwise governed them, against their will.

This, by the way, has nothing to do with parenting helpless children who may need an external authority as to when to cross a busy street, or if it is a good idea to stick the fork in the power outlet.

Enough about philosophy?

You want to govern?

This, also, has nothing to do with how to deal with criminals. Anarchism, as far as I can tell, has only individual solutions concerning how to individually deal with individual criminals.

What about very well organized groups of criminals?

How about looking at examples where people have authorized a voluntary method of dealing with very well organized groups of criminals such as that time period between 1776 and 1788?

As an anarchist I can authorize a form of Government such as a Democratic Federated Republic, as I look in the mirror, and I can demand such a thing, but I cannot force anyone, against their knowledge, or against their willful rejection, to adopt such a thing, upon them, unless I decide to step outside of anarchism, and unless I decide to become that which I supposedly abhor.

I don't have to agree with Thomas Paine. I don't have to believe that government is a necessary evil. What proof do I have, again, what about that time period between 1776 and 1788?

Common Sense was written in 1776. Did government suddenly stop having to be evil for some reason? Were enough people infected with the Spirit of Liberty?

" Well, look we all have conceal and carry permits, come and take them away. It may be a foolish thought of mine, but I am sick of being pushed into a corner."

Thinking these things and publishing these ideas, these thoughts, are a huge step, very huge, as huge as any number of people signing a declaration of independence, and why not?

The same dangers lurk in the darkness, and the same realities of injury to innocent people may appear out of that darkness at any moment, in many possible forms.

The enemy is not at the gate, the enemies are domestic, and they are among us, and they are powerful.

Why not, if enough people wake up, why not bypass the hoop jumping and start hanging a gun out in the open: carry and damn the concealment?

That is a question, a vital question, and the accurate answer is demanded, and why would anyone ever tolerate a false answer?

I've thought about it and it isn't time yet, not for me, and my decision to fail, if it is failure to not do this right thing now, will be at my cost. If I go ahead and start carrying a gun and someone else hires someone to kidnap me, torture me, and punish me for failing to abide by Crimes made Legal, then I will be paying costs forced upon me by criminals with badges.

It is a power struggle.

Tools exist.

Tools can be used by criminals.

Tools can be used by Friends of Liberty.

Life includes injury, who ever said otherwise?

The best thing about knowing the peaceful solutions is the certain knowledge that when enough people know better there won't be any need for any violence at all, like Henry Ford says, there will be a revolution before tomorrow morning.

_______________________________________
“You may be in a better position to go faster, less to loose if you jump the gun, while my history, and my experience suggests to me that I am careless, reckless, and prone to very serious errors.”

I don’t know what that means.
________________________________________

That means I have my pace. You have your pace. I look in the mirror, errors and all, and I go do things. I want to pay for my own errors, and at my own pace, as I can afford to proceed, as far as I know.

You may be in a position to go faster, you may have less to lose (not loose) if you jump the gun. Run for office.

How about that?

Run for office.

Jump that gun. Do you not understand the phrase "jump the gun"?

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/jump+the+gun

"to do something too soon, especially without thinking carefully about it"

__________________________________
When I make my children cry because I wipe them into the dirt while playing monopoly. However, now that they are getting older and wiser they know they are not always winners, but they are also getting harder to beat!
__________________________________

Let them pick the game.

Joe

Over here

May I speak to you in private, as private as private is herein.

Look at the picture of that dw lad, he is but a child. He doesn't know. He thinks he does. You said “I see no point in going any further with this exchange that appears on my end to be anything but equitable…”

And seemed to me to take issue personally with the words “fallacy” being applied to you.

dw said these words to me: “I hope we can talk again. I don't have many friends that really like to discuss economics in depth. I like it, though. It's tied to everything we do. It naturally leads into other important topics that make me get a little verbose.”

You know I can’t talk to him about economics…

My friend…are there not enough spoons to go around? Be patient, let him talk about what he thinks, don't take words personally, yes that is me talking, who takes all words personally...and you have always returned with a soft answer.

OK my voluntary friend?...dw has taken college level economic classes...what do you think he thinks...exactly what he has been told?

He wants to talk to someone about economics, you know it can't be me. I can't even repeat the things you say to me correctly, nor can I even give correct soundbite when using your name.

I shut no door

I've spent about 6 months or longer discussing things with someone on the Anarchism.net Forum and there was no communication that was evident from my viewpoint in that entire time.

The person went by the name Clarity.

In 6 months time, more or less, discussion went on and on, enough to fill a library of text.

If someone wants to learn something, the door is open, if someone wants to dictate facts to me, then I will call them on those one way communications.

You punch me in the face, and you may get punched in the face, or I may punch myself in the face harder, break my nose, blood everywhere, see, see, see, you are not so good at what you do, a mere amateur.

If I could teach my own children political economy, or my wife, do you think I would?

How is that done, exactly?

Hey you.

What?

I'm going to teach you things you refuse to know.

You and what army?

I get the point about carrots and sticks, but seriously you are exceptional, no one forces you to eat spinach. Some babies can't stand the stuff.

Joe

Kind Words

These are the kind words you used:

"Liberty is for the healthy, innocent, honest, productive people. Those who may be charitable, those who can afford to be charitable. Those who have the power to be liberated.

As to the nature of understanding, one step at a time, I can offer help in this regard. I've been very ignorant, very stupid, very confused, and those conditions persist, at least I know it.

If there are any stumbling blocks in the way of you understanding my point of view, which wasn't handed to me on a silver platter, spooned fed with a silver spoon, I can go step by step toward that goal."
http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2375124

Kind People

Kind people do not dictate to other people. Note the language used, there is a way of couching the verbiage, and there are key words, signals, the patterns are unmistakable, those among us who prey on us confess with the words as well as their actions.

Here is where a person can be lulled into a false sense of security, I am particularly vulnerable (over confident, hubris) as is anyone, or, conversely a person can misjudge and miss out, fail to earn, with kindness, with equity, with charity, and with open arms, knowledge, wisdom, strength.

I get all that.

The deceivers, the really bad ones, will steal our hearts, because they are so good at it, and then steal our first born. Look into Cindy Sheehan.

Some are on some kind of imaginary fence and they could teeter off with a kind word, since the fence is made up of the same cards that make up the house of cards, and plop there they are all innocent and on our side.

I'm not perfect.

The information is staring out at any faces that want to see it, I'm not needed, the key words pop out into obvious view if someone is looking for them.

Take that sortition word for example.

Someone wanting to know better can't climb over that word, it is blocking every angle; someone can try to turn to get back onto their house of cards, but that word now blocks the way back into darkness. There is no way over that word without either digging a hole and stuffing it down into hell, or putting a steady flow of red paint, made of blood, on it, and calling it a rose.

Where did sortition go?

What?

Sortition

I see no such thing.

Sortition, you know, random election into the highest form of legal authority, that, the thing that worked for 200 years in Athens.

What, this rose here, doesn't it smell so sweat?

That reminds me.

I wrote something about Athens Tennessee. I won honorable mention.

http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/battleofathensessaycontest.htm

Joe

Sound of Wisdom

But if I am reading everything correctly, the same person that advocates sortition does so because he believes everyone has a propensity to domineer, which I would say stems from a sin nature and he says stems from evolution. Anyway you say everyone who is normal is good. Jesus says no man is good: Luke 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying , Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

It seems to me, that no one agrees with anyone so we I guess we have to agree to disagree? You and I have agreed to disagree on some things. Why is it possible between you and I and not you and someone else?

I sent dw over to your Golden Sting comment and see that he has opposing views. Maybe I should just let connections happen on their own. I see dw is all over the place in other posts making people mad about Gary Johnson. I feel I am a bit gullible.

And I want to know why you talked about bloodying noses? That doesn’t go with do no harm.

Outstretched hand: Proverbs 1:20 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets: 21 She crieth in the chief place of concourse , in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying, 22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? 23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you. 24 Because I have called , and ye refused ; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded ; 25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof.. 32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them. 33 But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.

Athens, it is a small world!

What is the point of conceal and carry? Why not just carry? Is a permit needed to carry unconcealed?

I am getting ready to watch the videos here: http://www.dailypaul.com/246499/important-message-for-all-de...

It looks like some are concerned with a turn for the bad in Tampa.

Power struggle

Tampa is a future date of immense significance in the power struggle between Friends of Liberty and Legal Criminals, who is going to go there expecting a love fest?

As to blood and broken noses I can act out the play.

I meet person A.

Person A punches me in the nose.

I have choices at that point.

My choice could be to punch myself in the nose or jump in the air as high as I can and land on my nose flat on the concrete. Strange behavior yes, but the point would be to say, you think you are so powerful, punching me in the nose, look at me, I don't need your help to ruin my life, I can do a much better job at it than you can ever dream of doing.

You don't get it yet?

I can get more graphic.

Someone walks up to me and punches me in the nose, sure, I could punch back, but what if I take out some wire cutters and cut off one of my fingers and just bleed all over the place.

How absurd is it to dictate to me?

You are going to tell me the facts about political economy?

You?

You are going to punch me in the nose, stand above me, tell me things that I have not worked to figure out night and day for over 20 years?

Seriously?

What are my choices?

What would you do if someone walks on up to you and punches you in the nose?

Turn the other cheek?

How about duck, before the punch lands?

How about see the aggressor on his way over, and move out of the way?

I threw something out there, an absurd reaction to an absurdity.

Who is going to tell me, school me, about political economy?

I figured it out, there is no one, you find someone, I can't, all who I have found so far resort to silence, deceit, and even threats of violence, what comes next?

I've been looking at my slow pace, steady, slow, and relentless.

The Wicked Witches of the West melt when exposed to water, and the vampires burn up when exposed to light, they know better.

Send this guy over to challenge me on political economy?

Where is the challenge?

It is vapor.

Does that person want to learn something as desperately as you or I?

No.

That person is the false authority, here to school the lesser beings.

I'm not.

I figured it out, it is understandable in English. It is understandable in Math. Forget me. I am merely human, one life span, perishable, the idea, the viewpoint is factual, accurate, knowledgeable, reasonable, logical, able to be communicated intact, the messenger or the medium of exchange is immaterial.

The British are not coming. They are here. They have been here for over 200 years. They are few, the don't earn power, they steal it, they rob it, and they are parasites.

They cannot maintain their power honestly, they must destroy all knowledge about them, they must keep the victims fighting each other, and they must not allow too much Surplus Wealth to be produced for if they did then the victims will have enough power to choose not to be victims.

What is Surplus Wealth?

How about a sentence in English?

Power Produced into oversupply will reduce the price of power while purchasing power increases because power reduces the cost of production.

That is political economy in a nutshell.

What is Surplus Wealth?

Sortition is a power, it is very powerful, therefore it is a measure of wealth, so why won't we employ it, use it, consume it, and the scarce supply of power will then grow to a more abundant supply of power.

For who?

I did not know as fully as I do now the power in sortition.

Now I do.

What is Surplus Wealth?

73 truck loads of 100 dollar bills stacked on pallets and wrapped in bricks with cellophane?

No, that is the measure of just how stupid the victims have become.

Surplus Wealth is your effort to know better combining my my effort to know better, and then combining GregP and his effort to know better, and Jeff, and whomever else works at it, and if such productive work as this spreads, gains currency, the whole house of lies tumbles down and the former victims are then well prepared to avoid any more suffering that can be avoided by honest productive work.

We simply stop providing the means by which we suffer.

Why is that hard to see?

You have made a competitive bank in text on webpages, and how fast did your work gain currency in your own example of doing good?

You need someone else to spoon feed you the truth!

You are teaching me damn it.

Why can't you admit it?

Joe

Power Struggle 10AM ET

http://www.dailypaul.com/247223/ron-pauls-subcommittee-to-ex...

What do you think about Panarchy?

Please do not take this personally, but seems in my equitable disagreement post I have been surrounded by those who are in disagreement with the mainstream thought. That is difficult for me, like I am some kind of misfit. I asked WtP if I am smoking with the enemy. We told me to read Ron Paul

Joe, have you read any of Ron Paul?

Are you seeing eye to eye with GregP?

Principles

You, GregP, and I appear to be goal oriented and intolerant of contradiction sufficient to keep looking for remedy.

I looked into the work done by GregP and I did not find any method of transferring economic power from those who create it to those who are randomly elected to run the mutually agreed upon method of defending the power to find mutual agreement as to how to finance, or pay for, defense against well organized criminals who are so well organized that they have their victims held captive in a belief in false authority.

I did not find the method of payment.

I can ask GregP if a conversation with GregP moves another step.

I think GregP and I agree on the importance of sortition, anything further would be a guess on my part.

Conversations tend to be current when mutual agreement is current.

The first words I read from Ron Paul was in the 1980s on a usergroup in the infant network we now call The Internet.

I've heard now 2 speeches in person from Ron Paul, one in the 1990s, in Las Vegas, and one now in the year past in Nevada. I have not read any of Ron Paul's books.

Having done my homework, discovered relevant principles, invented a workable solution, my road is now on the communication phase, and then I can get on the implementation stage if there is a demand for such a thing as remedy.

It just so happens that my homework, my principles, and my inventions have at least 3 common points with Ron Paul as numbered as often as the opportunity arises.

1.
Compete in Legal Money Markets (End the FED Monopoly and don't replace it with the same thing having a different name)

2.
Compete in Legal Government Markets (End the IRS Monopoly and don't replace it with the same thing having a different name)

3.
Compete in the Legal Military Markets (End the Aggressive Wars for Profit of a few at the expense of everyone else and order those troops, by looking in the mirror if nothing else works, HOME)

In short: Stop providing the means by which we suffer.

I can offer my angle of view on anything written by anyone in case you stumble across something worth reading.

The things that make me stumble are fewer and farther in between, like sortition, and scripture, but much of that stumbling around, so far, reinforces the principles already understood.

Sortition is employed in Trial by Jury for reasons that make perfectly good sense.

As long as an honest person knowledgeable of scripture is willing to spoon feed me with answers I have concerning contradictions I see, there are no contradictions I can see in scripture, there may be things known by someone else that I do not yet know, but that is as you put it an agreement to disagree, which is fine by me, since my life is not over yet, there is still time to learn something important.

My mind has not been slammed shut and sealed with lies; not internally and not externally.

Please consider reading anything you think is worth reading and I will help if asked about any questions concerning those new messages.

Joe

Language?

Does Mr. Gray speak your language? But I cannot understand, he says do nothing at all to eliminate the Fed...just ignore it. I didn't like his reply to Dr. Pauls first question. Sounds like he says leave what is in place for payment of debts...Is he the wolf?

How about Mr. Ebeling...repeal it all!...Consumer sovereignty; consumer choice...for some reason the stream keeps buffering during Mr Ebelings words. Maybe it is just at my end?

What exactly is it that you have learned from me? I cant even understand the intent of the talking suits.

Lessons under your nose

You see someone like me working desperately to increase the velocity of accurate currency, so as to push out by reverse Gresham's law, Legal Crime.

Or you see that sentence above in your own viewpoint, and you see no fruit, or little fruit, to my labors.

You start a thread and it immediately becomes a Top 10 Hit on this broadcast network known as The Daily Paul.

Teachers teach by example, not by resort to deceit upon the innocent so as to injure those innocent people, not by resort to threats of violence upon those innocent people being "taught", and not by violence upon those innocent people to beat those lessons into their poor souls.

Dictators dictate, they do not teach any lessons worth knowing.

You teach by example.

How can you not see that fact as it is staring you back in the face if you have eyes to see and you are looking in the mirror.

Gary North is as honest as the day is long unless I'm so much more stupid than I can ever be forced into knowing better, and therefore I trust that any contradictions I have with his stated viewpoints can be resolved down into a least an agreement to allow each other to exist within those contradictions.

Like you and I, for example, you accept Jesus having died for your sins, if I understand your viewpoint, and I do not, not yet, so in that we have to agree to allow each other our diversions of perspectives on that point.

You and I are finding another diversion in perspectives concerning what normal children know or do not know by some power other than an external power forced into them. I think that normal children know right from wrong internally, as a part of the necessities of life, they know right from wrong, internally, as well as they know to keep breathing, and to keep their little hearts pumping.

I think that external powers destroy that normal capacity to naturally understand right from wrong.

I can be wrong about this, but I've known this for as long as I can remember, and I don't remember reading this in a book, or having my parents tell me these things. My parents were more of the hands off type parents, they had their own dramas to work out in those days.

As to Mr. Ebeling: the name is vaguely familiar, can you connect me to a link concerning his example?

Joe

Here is link

Go here: http://www.dailypaul.com/247223/ron-pauls-subcommittee-to-ex...

Then you will see the names which are links. Right now you will have to read their testimony as the live stream is over. Gray heads up a of a bunch of parallel community currencies, he may be worth reading, however, it was his reply comments that I was not sure on and I do not believe there is text on those.

Eberling wants to end all the fed stuff and repeal etc. He did say at the end in a reply to Dr. Paul that he agreed that competing currencies were good in the meantime before the fed is ended.

The first guy, is a gold standard guy and seems to advocate the states for coming up with competing currencies...like Utah.

Dr. Paul made a statement to the fact that our currency is no longer a medium of exchange, but has become a method of taxation.

Gray also gave a dollar figure of economic impact made by current compete currencies. I think he said 5M, but not sure. My only problem with him was he did not want to end the fed…he said it was fine for debt payment. I think he does not want any legislation coming into play that would affect competing mediums of exchange. His take is that they are not competing with the fed because the fed does not allow a level playing field. I can’t sort thru it all.

Anyway hopefully there will be a video link shortly.

Your summation

Your summation sounds typical of the hearings that I've seen so far and I may or may not listen to those hearings.

If you have trouble with the concept of not reaching for the jack boot to keep The People in line, with "regulation", and other things required, by you, and your army, to corral all the bad guys into a safe place, then I may be able to turn that viewpoint to a more competitive one.

You may not remember the quote by Hamilton concerning the goal of creating a National Debt.

The idea behind that is to seize power.

Once power is seized then the idea is to remove accountability for things done with the power thus seized.

In essence the idea is to make the victims provide the means by which they will suffer and then remove from the victims all avenues by which the victims can disconnect from those criminals who stole government by stealing the power of money.

Take two avenues by which the victims could disconnect from those criminals who stole government by stealing the power of money and inspect both methods and while we are at it we can add 2 counterfeit, or useless, methods by which the victims waste time trying to disconnect from the those criminals who stole government by stealing the power of money.

1.
Violent revolution by which the victims declare their independence and they stand as one against all enemies foreign and domestic whereby the enemies both foreign and domestic are the aggressors and the defenders are forced to defend themselves violently.

The historical cases for that are at least five (but there are many more):

A.
The Revolutionary War.
B.
Shays's Rebellion
C.
Whiskey Rebellion
D.
The Civil War (an obvious false name for defense against aggressive attack by an organized criminal army)
E.
The Athens Tennessee example (The Jack Boot of Criminal Government was the aggressor in that case too)

2.
Employment of equitable law power or due process.

Examples:
1.
Impeachment (process of removing authority from employees who are accused of abusing power)
2.
Prosecution of the accused criminals by some means written into some law, such as a constitutional limited government, including such things as The Uniform Code of Military Justice
3.
Trial by Jury (sortition)
4.
Removal of legal power from the presumed innocent once found guilty (no golden parachutes) sentencing of the convicted criminal by due process, and execution of the sentence (not necessarily punishment)

3. Counterfeit Revolution

Examples abound

A.
Hitler (financed into power by Wall Street)
B.
Stalin (financed into power by Wall Street)
C.
Pol Pot (financed into power by Wall Street)
D.
The Shah of Iran (financed into power by Wall Street)

[Wall Street is a place holder name that only intends to be the beginning of a list of names of the actual people who could be accused, presumed innocent, and processed by due process if the idea was equitable law, or voluntary law]

4.
Counterfeit Elections in a social structure that includes involuntary associations (crime) as the principle by which the social structure is built.

IN CONTEXT

Take the same white wash hearings, anyone, the 911 hearings, the list of many lone-gunman assassinations (successful or not) from Andrew Jackson, through Martin Luther King, and on into any of the most current examples, and include these hearings where "Congress" is supposedly "regulating" the Banking Cartel or Legal Money Monopoly or The Dollar Hegemony, or Wall Street, and instead of handling the case in question with kid gloves, put the force of law, the jack boot, in the power of 12 randomly picked jurors who have as much legal power as any other man or woman alive on Earth.

You be the juror, and you demand exactly what you demand before you will either unleash the dogs of war on the person who is presumed to be innocent, the person who has been accused by a known accuser, and all 12 jurors must voluntarily agree to unleash the dogs of war on the accused, and any one of the 12 randomly picked jurors can set the presumed to be innocent, accused, free, if anyone of those 12 jurors are not fully satisfied with all the power of all the laws of all this land from sea to shining sea.

Do you think a Ben Bernanke, sat down in front of 12 randomly picked jurors, may get a little more nervous, and a little less smug, were his own good life on the line?

Pick any 12 people, out of a phone book, and what are the chances that 12 of those people would have an interest in knowing the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, as time goes by in this type of organized due process of equitable, voluntary, law?

What if a family member of someone who went to a wedding in Afghanistan, was picked from that phone book, and that family member was witness to their whole extended family being droned to death at a wedding, and in the process of discovery, there were money trails going from Ben Bernanke to the person who ordered those drone attacks?

What if a person whose life was turned up-side-down with the mortgage crash was picked for that jury and in the process of discovery there were money trials going from Ben Bernanke to Liar Loans, Triple AAA ratings forged on mortgage bundles sold while the sellers bought derivatives on those same bundles of mortgages that they knew were bad, and they knew they would profit by the sale of those mortgages and they would profit when those mortgage bundle values plummeted (derivatives, put options, futures, betting on failure, but not a gamble, they knew they were bad when they hired someone to fraudulently stamp the official AAA ratings on them), profiting when the sellers of the bogus derivatives go under and are then bailed out, profiting when Ben Bernanke sells fraudulent money to the mortgage fraud/derivatives/bail out ponzi schemers at lower interest rates, or no interest rate, and then pays them to hold their fraudulent money in fraudulent "savings" accounts or fraudulent "investment" accounts, what if, what if that juror is desperately holding onto a sense of good faith and credit paying mortgage payments, each month, that are twice the amount they could be paying of they merely walk away from the house they are in and move into the house next door, as the exact same house next door, and then next door down from that, are on sale at half the price today.

A.
White Wash
B.
Due process (if there must be a jack boot then it will go up everyone's behind the same way each time - no exceptions or no deal)

Joe

Jack Boots

I just want to know if anyone is telling the truth, or if they are all speaking half truths or some of them are plain liars. I am not competitive enough to understand. It was a short hearing. There is an archive link if you decide you want to look at it. http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2649247 .

Someone said "Bernanke Bucks" I don't know if that was coinage of a new term or if it has been said in the past. Now that might be some competitive currency in the power of language? How about if we replace all those pictures of US heroes with Bernanke’s picture? That might remove the foam at the mouth symbolic worth of the money.

I think my biggest deficiency is the ability to continue to see the big picture when I focus on a detail. Of course my view of the big picture is very fuzzy. I didn't do my homework or any of my current work... You seem to be able to see the big picture in focus as well as place the detail where it belongs. I just think if I knew what lies were spoken in this video I might know better. I understand there is a jackbook on our (me, you, every other non legal criminal) necks. I want to know if any of the people who were witnesses were wearing them.

I understand how now, thanks to you, how trial by jury would fix the problem. I just can’t remember to think of it in context with reality. I suppose I should make a concentrated effort now to remember that just like I remember the Legal Monopoly Money and the way Criminals have written laws to make themselves legal and to continuously remove power from the people in order to keep the people week to keep all the power for themselves. Those things I owe to you as well as the concept of competition, and probably much more that I am not remembering right now. I want to place those things in the concept of the reality of 10AM E 8/2/12 Finance Subcommittee at W DC.

On silver spoons…and learning the Bible from a comment earlier which I have not yet replied to but want to do so now. My Father died when he hit the back of a sand truck in Muskogee, OK, (I don’t know if those were the kind of hoppers you were filling) while he was hauling a load of junk that he bought to try to sell to cover his check kiting. He was driving an old rusted van with a trailer behind it. My father had a Master’s Degree in Math and died in debt and left my mom in a bad way. I helped pay for my own father’s funeral because he didn’t have the money himself. He had a chance to break free of the cycle when their house burned to the ground and he declared bankruptcy, but I suppose he owed the wrong kind of people money so bankruptcy doesn’t work in that case. After Jeff and I married he asked to borrow money but I told him no. Not because I didn’t want to give him money, but because it would never be enough. My dad owed relatives, friends, and strangers. The only reason he asked me if I wanted a car or to go to college was because there was a flood in Houston in 79 and he had lots of furniture refinishing work. That was a small window of time. He had been a plant manager for GE, but left all of that when Honeywell bought out his plant. My sister still has college loans she is paying 25 years later. I remember my dad saying when he was young all he wanted to do was make $10K a year like the banker in town. By the time it was his turn tho $10K was no longer $10K.

No problem

I like doing the things that I do well enough to be appreciated by other people, call me a "worker", low life, "regulator", subhuman, whatever, as I don't like getting money for nothing, in pursuit of property.

What makes me happy is to be appreciated.

I like, and will, watch that specific hearing and I can quote from it and comment on it in ways that an eager to learn soul can understand - a Central Banker won't understand, but you will.

This one:

http://mfile3.akamai.com/65722/wmv/sos1467-1.streamos.downlo...

First:

The word Parallel is used and you may not know as much as I do about how that word works in fluid dynamics, electronic circuits, and things that flow through working devices, including rocks flowing and sand flowing through a rock plant.

A Parallel circuit can be compared (competitively) with a Series circuit. If you have one Banking Monopoly lasting 100 years and then you have a replacement Banking Monopoly lasting another 100 years the result is 200 years of Banking Monopoly, and that is a series of Banking Monopolies lined up in a row, and that has to happen for there to even be a Banking Monopoly.

Monopoly is a Series circuit.

If you have two Banks in Parallel, then they are two Banks working at the same time, not one working and then another working in series. Parallel means "at the same time".

In a series circuit the entire flow of stuff has to go through one Bank at a time and all that capacity has to be able to handle all the money power, or there will be waste, that series Bank has to handle everything all the time, no backup, no spare, no alternate route, no reserve, nothing but the one measure of absolute capacity to handle the entire load, and the 1st Bank in series has to do all the work for 100 years, and then the next Bank in that series has to handle all the money for the next 100 years, and the Ben Bernanke's, and the Involuntary Tax supporters, all love it. They get to handle all the money all the time, for 2 centuries, and then again for another 2 centuries, no problem, things are just fine for Central Bankers with their Banks working in series.

Parallel Banks have to share the load, one Bank in parallel with another Bank will get roughly half of the money while the other Bank handles roughly the other half of the money unless one Bank is a counterfeit Bank and then the counterfeit Bank will handle all the counterfeit money and the real Bank will have to handle all the real money.

Central Bankers know that given a choice the majority of the people will insist upon using the real money for real things and only use the counterfeit money for fooling people into giving up real things for nothing in return.

Two counterfeit Banks in Parallel can happen too, where there are Euro Counterfeit Banks in Parallel with Federal Reserve Note Counterfeit Banks where each bank has to share the demand for money that is used for fooling people into giving up real things for nothing, or worse, in return: literally something given for literally nothing, or worse, in return.

I can show you how that works in electronic and hydraulic fluid schematic drawings, and there are math formulas that measure how that works very precisely, down to fractions of a unit of pressure or POWER, such as a pound per square inch, or a watt.

Ron Paul, by the way, is right on target here as a voluntary government Statesman, offering to keep his grubby hands off The FED, so long as The FED is gracious enough to allow a real money bank to exist in Parallel.

If Ron Paul was Dictator he could get rid of The FED, chop off all the heads of all those Legal Criminals who support The FED, and usher in a New Age of truly Free Market Legal Money in SERIES, whereby the old fraudulent bank is crushed, sent into the Memory Hole, and the new Bank, the Ron Paul Bank, replaces the old ONE with the new ONE, in SERIES.

No, that is not the Ron Paul way, that is not the competitive way, the competitive FREE MARKET way is to allow competitors to compete, and to let the chips fall as they may, as frauds choose a fraud money and as honest people choose an honest money, and a fraud can even have 2 accounts, one fraud account and one honest account.

Where do you think Ben Bernanke stashes all his Surplus Wealth, in Fraudulent Federal Reserve Notes?

Hardly.

Ron Paul want's to allow everyone to have as much freedom to choose as Ben has, as far as having an option to pick honest money. This may sound confusing since anyone can buy Gold, but this is not confusing since no one, but a very few, can actually earn Surplus Wealth during a BUST Cycle.

Too many people are too pathetically stupefied.

The key point concerning that link between a Monopoly Bank and choices to use other money is The IRS. The IRS demands only Federal Reserve Notes, not gold, not silver, not any other honest money, only the fraud money, and this is crime, this is legal crime, this is extortion, and you pay or they will crush you, and they will hand you the bill so that you have to pay all the extra costs required in the work it takes to crush you.

Parallel is a very significant word, not at all trivial.

Ron Paul is very good at signalling honest and accurate ideas with English language and it is so telling, very telling, when people complain about how Ron Paul isn't "polished" and his "personality" doesn't dominate the scene.

What a joke; poor, poor, poor fools.

Even if Ron Paul is the Devil, it makes no sense, since he is doing exactly the right things to move everyone closer to Liberty, leaving no one out, not even those lovers of fraud, who can have their own fraudulent money if that is what they want.

Central Bankers know that victims would choose not to be victims given the choice.

Already at time 2:32 another key term must be understood: World Reserve Currency.

That means in real terms, as in troops on the ground terms, that the ONE LEGAL MONEY MONOPOLY will require huge costs spent on making victims use the ONE LEGAL MONEY, and again the victims are given the bill and they have to pay the costs. That can be understood better if you listen to the following:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oARBdBtGenM

This helps too, and it is humorous:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5267640865741878159

If you need help with the concept of a World Reserve Currency, then ask vital questions and you can work to settle for no less than accurate answers.

Right now The Dollar Hegemony means that the people who control the World Reserve Currency are the people who control the supply (the total number of units) of Federal Reserve Currency.

If World War III is the events that are used to change World Reserve Currency from The Dollar Hegemony to a new Headquarters, in China, and have that done by about 2030, or whenever, then that would be a Series of World Reserve Currency Power going from England, then to U.S.A. Inc. with World War I/II, and then to China with World War III, and that is speaking only about Fraud Legal Money, that has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with Real Money, or Honest Money, or Accurate Money, such as Gold and Silver or even Oil.

Central Bankers do not store their own wealth in fraud money, they have Real Money, like their second set of books, like the difference between The Budget (what the Public are told, and lied to, about "we" are broke) and Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports (where the actual net receipts from all forms of income are documented and "we" are not broke by that accurate measure).

Why does Ron Paul not recognize people like Walter Burien since Walter Burien uncovered the Comprehensive Annual Financial Report scandal? That is another subject, but it does not necessarily mean that either Walter Burien or Ron Paul are bad, they merely have their own special ways of doing things honestly, honorably, and equitably.

There are things I do not agree with in the History of Oil, and in Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, but that does not make either one of those reporters of information false, or bad, they may not be as accurate as is humanly possible.

At time 3:00 there is a term used by Ron Paul:

Credit

Having a mutually understood definition for that word, without having the meaning of the word mean one thing one minute and the opposite thing the next minute is vital, so we may get a solid definition from someone before this video runs out of time.

I stopped again at 3:47 for two key points concerning the practice of allowing another (or even more than two) Parallel currencies, and Ron Paul asks:

Would it be legal?

and

What are the tax consequences?

See? Do you see? When the single Nation State demands direct taxes from The People in every State paid in that ONE MONEY then there is no choice anywhere unless the choice is Love it or Leave it, and that means Love the one money or get the hell out of this Despotic Nation state.

A Parallel currency is an alternative option to Love it (one legal fraud money) or leave it (exile from your own country).

I have issue with this:

4:12

"They are managing a money that they can't even define."

That can make sense if Ron Paul means that the victims are spending all the costs required to manage a money that is defined by criminals who can double the amount (defining it as being twice as abundant as it was) or cut the amount of money in half (defining it as being twice as scarce) at will. Ron Paul can't seriously believe that the people who have monopoly control of the legal amount of legal money can't define the money they control, they, the people at The FED define exactly how much they change, they change it, they know they change it, they define it, and they defnine it whenever they want to change it, doubling, or cutting it in half, is defining it, and they can pick and choose who is transferred that legal power and who can't have any.

They (the people at The FED) define that money at will, but the victims have to react to those changes after the fact, or find a way to get the inside information.

Mr. Lewis offers an example of what happens to competitors if competitors in legal money dare to compete: they will be crushed by the Monopoly Power, no trial, no presumption of innocence, they will be crushed, and that does not even address the demand for involuntary tax payments with the one Monopoly Money.

I want to caution you on the idea of getting rid of the Fraud Money but not getting rid of the Frauds. The tool didn't commit fraud, so getting rid of the tool, or blaming the tool, does not address that actual problem, the actual problem is two fold:

1.
Ready victims are ready to be victims because they are stupefied (Ron Paul is informing people to fix that problem if it can be fixed)

2.
Ready criminals have the badges that make their crimes legal (Ron Paul does not yet have the badge that can take those badges away from those criminals, or if Ron Paul does have that Political Power, that badge, then why do those criminals still have that badge that makes their crimes of fraud and extortion legal?)

Tools will always be ready for people to use productively or destructively, so don't blame the tools.

That is stupid. Blaming the tools is stupid, when responsibility is not accurately accounted to each individual, there can be no such thing as responsibility.

The word responsibility is rendered meaningless if the meaning does not mean that individual people are accountable for what individual people decide to do and then do according to their own power of will.

Blaming the tools for what people do is stupid.

Why do that?

What is the point of doing that?

I can guess.

Play action:

You hate a group of people, say the people in a church in Waco Texas, so you order a bunch of criminals to go there and torture them for months, chop off their heads, burn them, shoot them all, and pile their bodies up and run them over with tanks.

The tanks did it.

No, no, better yet, they killed themselves, it was obviously a case of suicide by religious decree.

God did it.

Yea, yea, that's it, God did it, and I merely signed the order to supply them with the tools that they used to follow God's orders to commit suicide, yea, yea, that's it, the fire did it, yea, that's it.

That's the point!

Dr. Richard Ebeling spoke of how competition accomplishes the task of holding those responsible for errors accountable for those errors that they alone make, and therefore costs of their errors does not get passed onto innocent people, which if you remember is well reported in Equitable Commerce.

Ebeling also mentions the capacity of adaptation, experimentation, and the potential for improvement as many competitors work on improving the products demanded instead of ONE non-competitor working to make the products demanded worse for those who demand the product - but those are my words not his, and I can add that it is these many choices chosen by these many people that is the voluntary FORCE that drives quality up and cost down.

As to the need to force The FED out of business with the FORCE of government I disagree with Ebeling. Criminals should be processed by the same due process that is due every single person without exception. If Ben Bernanke can get away with the crimes he admits to have committed, smugly, than every damn convict in every prison anywhere, by that same due process afforded to Ben Bernanke, should be set free, and paid a lot of money for doing such a good job committing crimes.

We do not need more laws to regulate competitors, and The FED can compete in the FRAUD Money Market as they alone choose to do, and Trial by Jury will remove that connection between those criminals and their victims as each victim can process each criminal by that same due process afforded to everyone or there is no such thing as Law, and there is no such thing as responsibility, since all of that, by that executive privilege of legal fraud afforded to those few, is null and void, merely lies stacked upon lies, of no authority anymore than any other lie told by any liar ever.

What is the difference between the snake oil salesman and The Central Banker? One has a bigger army of victims?

If the Snake oil salesman has to legally answer for having injured innocent victims then so does the Central Bankers or there is no such thing as Liberty or Justice, or Law, and if the fund of voluntary contributions to the law effort is running out of money then who is telling us to put thousands of snake oil salesmen in very expensive prisons when it is much less expensive to try a few hundred Central Bankers and merely stop enforcing their versions of fraud upon ourselves?

Did I wake up on Planet X?

Why are so many people so damn stupid?

But Joe, I can hear Bear reminding me, if they are so stupid how come they have no bid contracts, licenses to raise their own pay, vacation homes in every one of their Nation States, and we are struggling just to make ends meet?

We The People are as stupid as every cent of our earnings flowing into the hands of those people who are making us suffer.

The answer isn't more laws, the answer is to be smart about who you hire to process those laws or at least smart enough to stop providing the means by which we suffer and stop paying those crooks for being crooks.

So, no, don't spend any more power than necessary on The FED people, if they can be brought up on charges, like anyone else, then do that, along with Parallel Currencies being allowed to exist, to compete, and let our choices determine what we deserve, let our combined choices, each to our own, force quality up and cost down.

On to Grey.

Wow!

That is a good start calling those crooks at The FED thieves, so, so, so...

Where are the Federal Troops? Why aren't the Federal Troops now descending upon Wall Street, surrounding the New York FED, and demanding confessions, demanding that they send out their fearless leader, and shooting them when they try to escape. Will the Federal Reserve burn down after the siege? Will the Central Bankers kill themselves too in a final blaze of glory?

No, not that, but at least due process?

No drones sent to follow Ben Bernanke to a wedding or a funeral of Central Bank Thieves?

No, cooler heads must prevail?

How about Trial by Jury based upon sortition?

They a Bank Center didn't steal a pittance, they are now stealing Liberty by the trillions.

Where is my show trial?

Move the small time Theater Lone Gunman to late night and get this show on PRIME TIME!

This is NEWS! Think of the ratings!

Federal Reserve Central Bankers are THIEVES!

Did I hear that right, hold on, I can play that one again.

19:08

Mr. Grey
"No fair challenge can be made between honest men and thieves."

So when is the trial?

If they don't try those National criminals then why spend another dime locking up a person failing to pay a National tax? What is the point of paying the Central Bank thieves for being thieves, allowing them to set their own pay rate, what is the sense of sending them any power at all, since that is power that we may need in defense of Liberty?

WOW!

Hey Bear, I just got a call from this number:

281-825-4669

That was 7:04 PM PDT

It was a survey.

I answer that, yes, I am a registered voter, and the next question was multiple choice about the likelihood of my voting.

Something like:

A. You will vote
B. You might vote
C. 50 percent likely to vote

I said none of the above.

The lady says: what do you mean?

I say: If Ron Paul makes it past Florida then I will vote.

She hung up.

Back to Mr. Grey, and that guy is very good, right on target, and I wonder how much power Ron Paul has in selecting these witnesses. Whoever did pick Mr. Grey didn't pick a polished speaker, but the information is very sensible so far.

Ignore the FED.

How about this:

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Ignore the FED, and then consider the exchange rate concerning any so called "National Debt".

Ron Paul asks:

How important is Legal Tender Laws?

I heard Lewis. He want's gold and silver, and he knows that The FED criminals will use their power to force big companies to use the one legal money, their money, of course.

Next is Ebeling.

Before I listen to Ebeling I can answer the Doctor's question.

Ron, nice to meet you, finally. As you know the National government demands payments of taxes based upon Income which is an invasion of State Sovereignty, which nullifies States Rights, and therefore The People's rights are also nullified by that power of direct taxation alone, not even counting the hidden frauds called inflation or "quantitative easing", but seriously, a Parallel Currency in each State, to pay, or not to pay, taxes in their own State denominations to the Federal Government would go a long way toward returning this Despotism back to something resembling a State of Liberty. Stop direct taxation and give back the power to decide if the Sates will pay Federal taxes, and in what currency they alone decide to pay taxes, is my advice. Perhaps a deal can be made to agree to use only Gold and Silver as payments by States of membership dues into the Confederation.

Ebeling?

I smell a rat with that one. Notice the credit given to "the courts" as if judges have some special power over the serfs. All that nonsense is nullified with Trial by Jury and a due process that is due everyone, without exception, or no one, and again the connection between Involuntary tax "Liabilities" at a National Level are exclusively demanded in the ONE MONEY, so that has to be stopped or there will be an "unfair" (read: criminal) advantage or "subsidy" given (actually stolen and then transferred) to the one non-competitor.

No one has made that connection yet, and that is either a case of ignorance or deceit, and it is very difficult for me to believe that I'm the only one seeing the naked emperor here.

How about Gray?

Grey brings up an interesting point and a challenge to Ron Paul. I may be in the dark here since I thought that Legal Tender Laws demand payment of taxes in the one Legal Money. In other words a person alive in America must gain control over dollars or die trying. You must work for food, sure, and you must work for shelter, clothing, and all those necessities but "death and taxes" are paid for with U.S. Dollars from The Federal Reserve dollar farm, so you had better get at it right away, get those dollars or else: slave.

That, if that is "legal tender laws" in a nutshell, means that any competitor who produces a money of some merit must exceed that measure of merit to reach the level given to the Monopoly producer. The Monopoly producer is given 300 million guaranteed customers since every single one of them will be taxed and they must, by law, pay those taxes in dollars.

Is that the meaning of Legal Tender Laws (on a National level) or have I missed something important?

The question on the Euro.

That was already answered by Grey. There is no competition (fair and equitable or free market) between honest money and fraud money, so to ask if one Fraud money (FED) is in Parallel with another Fraud money (Euro) misses the point.

A silver money (outlaw or black market money) in a town in France is not in parallel with a gold money in a town in Utah.

A very competitive question to ask, a vital question, is to ask why do people choose a fraud money if they have a choice?

If there is no reason for a victim of fraud to choose to be a victim of fraud then there has to be some other reason other than choice to explain the subjugation into victimization by a fraudulent money made fraudulent by criminals, with or without badges.

OK, I'm hearing double speak at time 34:55.

The key word was said to be "confidence", and that is misunderstood, obviously, and measurably. People use dollars not because they are confident in the power of the money: they are told to obey the order to pay this much tax in dollars and therefore it matters not what other things can be done with that fraudulent money, it may be worthless for any other purpose, the main cause for the use of the fraud money is the consequences of failing to pay taxes and taxes must be paid in that ONE MONEY.

Why is that not easy to see?

They are not stupid, they must know this, so why are we so stupid?

I'm hearing more of the "confidence" scheme, as in Con Man.

So a big corporation doesn't have to pay any taxes, but Grey already explained what would happen if Ford decided to use Gold and Silver as their choice of money, they would be punished, and how would they be punished?

The FED:
So you think you can just use any old money you want?

Ford:
Damn you caught me.

The FED:
When was the last time you were audited for tax liabilities?

Ve have vays of making you pay.

Who is that congressman or is it one of the well paid criminals?

I can't read it, it looks like Luetkemeyer.

OK, Grey begins to say that everyone is in debt. That is not supported by the information published in Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports. The Budget reports are lies so as to threaten the tax payers with claims of being broke, and therefore tax payers have to pay more taxes or else, and meanwhile the actual (second set of) books, these Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports report who is OWED all the money.

Grey started out well but I think he is missing some key information.

1.
The Connection between involuntary taxes and the supplier of the only money demanded (or else) as payment of those "liabilities".

2.
Two sets of books, and even two types of money, are used by the Legal Criminals.

A. Fraudulent money, and fraudulent budget reports, are for the public (victims)

B. Commodities: gold, silver, oil, and accurate accounting books: Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports are used by Legal Criminals (or anyone with surplus wealth and a desire to keep it secure)

Those are key points and this diversion to "confidence" is a confidence scheme just like a magician employing the skill known as sleight of hand, or the Emperor using Bread and Circuses, or Reality Television and Show Trials, agent provocateurs, public hangings, witch burnings, etc.

Now Ron Paul is entering into the subject of taxation, and reinforcing a point offered by Grey concerning the non-competition whereby a supposed competitor is taxed and the supposed "better" (legal) money is not taxed or the supposed "better" (legal) money is in fact subsidized; hence it is not a level playing field, and it is not due process, and it is nothing short of theft.

You can call it Collectivism, but by any other names the victims are still made weaker and the criminals are still made stronger by that transfer and it is not good for anyone but the criminals, and even that is only temporary, since the golden goose does get cooked eventually.

38:03

So who brings up the fatal flaw?

Ron Paul

Who else?

Ron Paul "The IRS"

Guess what?

What do you 3 think about the National Tax Man (I already blew the whistle in my imaginary response to Ron Paul's grueling interrogations)?

Mr. Lewis appears to advocate becoming that which we supposedly abhor, which is to say that we try to get away with fraud too, just don't get caught. That is a ratty thing to say. I smell an anti-rat.

As to Ebeling on the IRS there is a point that comes to mind concerning whose business is it to collect taxes from The People?

I'll give you a moment to hazard a guess.

It is a person's, an individuals person's, power to decide to , or not to, pay a membership fee to be a member of Texas, and if that becomes an involuntary payment then move to Arizona, if that becomes an involuntary payment then move to where ever else the Free People are moving within the Federated Sovereign States, and if there is no place where masters are not enslaving the slaves then guess what?

Despotism.

Paint it red with innocent blood and call it a rose, it still stinks.

Grey completely dodges the IRS question, and that is a confession. Perhaps he has "liabilities" not limited to IRS "liabilities" per se, he admits so much in his words, which are instructive as to the present state of voluntary taxation at the State and City levels as competitive as they may still be despite the force of deceit at the National Level, and despite the force of threats of violence at the National level, and despite such things as invasions by National Troops into States where church goers are "suicided" with Military Tanks and fire.

Luetkemeyer appears to be back working his confidence scheme. If people decide to pretend that the power of current law is not criminal then they have a lot of work to do covering up the facts - it seems to me.

Dr. Ebeling tows the Austrian (Menger) line claiming that the fact that people put money is banks is to earn interest, as if he suddenly became spokesperson for all of humanity. I'm not buying it. There is a carrot dangled in front of innocent children called by various labels, such as "independently wealthy" and "The American Dream" and that is roughly half true - in my opinion - it is based upon an enforced monopoly power regime.

More rat smell.

But this is all part of the web woven in deceit. Notice how the vital question lasted a few moments (costs) in a futile effort to get the accurate answer.

What about that IRS Dr. Paul?

Ask me Dr. Paul.

My hand is going up, waving, waving, waving, and the teacher calls on me.

Teacher Bear.

What about the IRS Joey?

Well Mrs. Bear, those guys are making us suffer, so if that is what you want, then pay more, by all means, but please leave me out of that arrangement.

Bitcoin is tabled.

These are all things concerning that fourth side of the fence intending to cover a square area, where there are very high sides on three sides of the fence, but the fourth side of the fence does not exist, and this is the Black Market.

Yes there is now more than ever many ways to invent, produce, and maintain competitive currencies that fill the demand for high quality and low cost mediums of exchange as never before in the history of human kind, but that is not the same subject as what can be done to combine our power of Liberty to avoid being incorporated into absolute despotism by a system of Legal Monopoly Debt Based Money where the victims are providing the means by which they suffer through hidden involuntary taxes called "quantitative easing" and involuntary direct "income" taxes from a National level.

So stop enforcing a fraudulent involuntary tax (The FED)

So stop enforcing a direct involuntary tax (The IRS)

And those tax collectors are not going to like it, so bring the Troops home, to save all those innocent victims foreign and to save all these innocent victims domestic.

Oh, Ron Paul is speaking again.

55:00

Vehicle for taxation (involuntary).

I stopped to field the question myself.

Question:

Parallel currencies, alone, will not address inequity.

That is exactly right Dr. Paul. Many people, and possibly most people care not to make money make money, they merely want to earn their living, and they have no use for money other than a means of maintaining equity, so the real problem isn't the relative ability of the ONE money to serve as money, the real issue is that the ONE Money is, as you very astutely report, that fraudulent ONE legal money is a vehicle for National taxation of every person without question and if you dare to question, well don't, just don't dare question.

Thank you Mr. Kelley.

No, I'm not done. I yield the balance of your time to me, and I get to say the whole truth.

It is not taxation if by that word the idea is to volunteer to join The Friends of Liberty and volunteer to combine our power of defense to avoid any resort to deceit, and be able to afford to avoid any resort to threats of violence, and avoid any resort to violence of any kind between one human being and another. I think your word choice here is disingenuous at best.

Tax?

Just Tax?

It is not a vehicle for taxation, that wording besmirches taxation, and throws mud on the concept of taxation. What you speak of is a vehicle for crime and the crime is fraud, and the crime is extortion, and those crimes, by that vehicle, are made legal and the cost is always paid for by those who are weaker at deception and those who are weaker at the ease in which violence is employed upon the innocent, so, so, so, consider please the concept of speaking the whole truth and not any lesser version.

Please.

It is a vehicle for involuntary taxation or theft made legal.

Back to the experts or the authorities:

Ebeling is transferring accountability off of actual people who commit crimes (legal or otherwise) onto "government" and "fiat currency".

The gun did it. He was dodging the question.

Dr. Paul cuts him off and brings him back to the goal post.

"Does it help inequity"

See Bear, see, the Ron Paul guy is almost always right on target, in a sea of deceit, it is incredible.

Ebeling offers the "let them eat cake" answer.

That is pathetic (as in pathology).

Dr. Paul put words in Ebeling's mouth that I didn't hear from Ebeling, but I'm no Ron Paul, so Dr. Paul may get things that go over my head.

Moving in the right direction, says Dr. Paul, is a good thing, and that is a case of me putting words in Dr. Paul's mouth, words I can quote in his own words. I use my one instead.

Congressman: "How do we save the children from the evil competitive currencies."

That is what I heard.

How do "we" save the choosers from bad choices!?

Choice A:

Work harder today than yesterday, harder tomorrow than today, to pay more to sociopaths and psychopaths who make their crimes of torture and serial killing more legal each day with our power with their false money.

Choice B:

Don't pay so much into that confidence scheme since it will cost everyone everything sooner than anyone can possibly imagine once that day arrives when it is then absolutely too late.

They dare not say State Sovereignty?

If they can't even say that how far away are they from something like sortition?

Oh, I spoke too soon, Mr. Lewis says "maybe a State government".

That is worth noting.

Ron Paul as President of a Federation of Sovereign States can be a reality, it is not impossible, and such a thing would be World Wide Prime Time NEWS, every day of that tour of duty.

I would not want to be on Ron Paul's naughty list.

Joe

Thank you, Josf and I might add (at the end)

for taking the time to do this for me. I read it this morning and wanted to make sure you didn't have anything else to add before replying. I want to relisten to the hearing again and read your reply with it. Really, I appreciate your time. You don't know how much.

We picked grapes this morning! I have never done that before. They are concord with seeds in them. Even got some vine rippened raisens along with them. I am getting ready to make Chicken & Dumplings. My grandmother's recipe...except she didn't have a recipe, I had to write it down and make her measure the four and salt etc. before she put it in the bowl so I would have a recipe. I really wish I had enjoyed more time with her, but I was busy.

adding at the end: I guess you can send the grief to my account for the survey calls! You will probably be getting the robo calls as well. We get them daily now as we have elections in MO next week. Love the way you handled the call. I made me laugh and yet there was so much truth offered in your reply to that strawman survey.