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July 4th 2013 Liberty Day Challenge

Two directions are possible from this moment on as proven by historical precedent. Either be subjected to suffering by Legalized Criminals and be forced to pay all debts collected in that evil enterprise or move in the direction of Liberty.

Make my day.

How about July 4th 2013?

If by that date the American people, as one, have invented, produced, and supplied a number of competitive legal monies, then those American people will take back their power to prosper, at will, for their own and for posterity.

Sign on in spirit or sign on in actual reality, either way the days will move in a direction and the Legal Criminals score their progress with or without your willful participation toward their goal of absolute despotism.

May God have mercy on our souls.

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Good Morning

I am replying elsewhere today, but wanted to drop this off here.

Proverb 12 http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/proverbs/12-audio.html

I Smiled

Yes, I smiled as I read today thinking your language was being spoken. The very first verse:

1 A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.

That false balance is speaking of a hanging scale balance with a bowl on each side by which a commodity would be weighed against static weights set in one bowl against the commodity in the 2nd bowl so as to give the weight of the commodity. (Kinda like the butcher putting his finger on the scale?)

Think of the Fed boom and bust cycle in relation to verse 1. It is an abomination to the Lord that criminals boom and bust the people.

I am working on the lengthy reply today. I worked some yesterday. I hope I will have it finished so as not to leave your reply unanswered for so long. I have been kind of sick so I haven't had much energy. Finally went to doc yesterday and am starting to feel better.

2013: hundred years under the Fed

Makes me sick

Persistence wins?

First Bank of the United States

Second Bank of the United States

Federal Reserve System (of legal fraud)

What happened to the Friends of Liberty?

Ran out of steam?

How about dates?

Can Wikipedia be trusted?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Bank_of_the_United_States

First Bank of the United States

1791 to 1811

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bank_of_the_United_States

Second Bank of the United States

1817 to 1836

Federal Reserve System of Legal Extortion (Limited Liability Fictitious Borrower claiming to be Lender of Last Resort)

1913 and still going in 2013

How low can we go?

How about pulling the plug before we find out how low we can go, and do so by any date you can get on your calender?

How about next Tuesday?

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."
Henry Ford

Joe

Not sure about events on national holidays.

Too many people want to do other things, especially family orientated.

I believe the most participation is not on a holiday, and even on that weekend.

I like finding a date in American history (preferably Revolution era) and go with that just to bring some fun into it.

But I really believe we should stay away from holidays.

spring - a day in May

summer is hot - but there are days there.

fall - 3rd week in September is a good time - Constitution day is on the 17th.

***

August 15th is a good date. The end of the gold standard. thats a good End the Fed connection.

Jeffersons birthday in April.

Yesterday is too late.

Tomorrow is too late, but better late than never.

Joe

It's not about late,

it's about choosing a date where the most people will attend and hopefully has the least competition.

Same page?

We two appear to be on different pages. I can try to explain the page I see in this Liberty Day Challenge for July 4th 2013 (or a more competitive day if one exists).

Between now, this moment, and the date on the most competitive date on the calender The People who meet the Challenge will do things in preparation for the upcoming date, so as to meet the Challenge on that date in the future.

The People will do things that End The FED, End the IRS, and End the Criminal Wars for Profit, by that most competitive date on the calender.

The concept of having The People place the most competitive date on the calender, to meet the challenged by that date, is such that The People start counting down the days left before the date arrives, and thereby realize the need to invent things to do, to reach the goal, and do things needed to reach the goal, and find the most competitive things that work best, to meet the challenge by that most competitive date on the calender.

Take back Liberty from those who stole it, and do so by a certain time and date, instead of waiting for the people who stole Liberty to offer it back to us.

Does that makes sense?

Joe

Student of Liberty

Friends of Liberty must seek and find the Authority within, because the Counterfeit Authorities without have taken over neighbors foreign and your neighbors domestic.

Government of the people, by the people, and for the people have to be governments that include some good people in the mix.

Friends of Liberty must learn and teach each other, by example.

For Example:
______________________________________
"We are going to the Wallbuiders event tonight so Scott can participate with his class in reciting the Preamble to the Constitution. I think I am going to print out a copy of Patrick Henry's comments against the constitution and see what the speaker has to say when I hand it to him.

Someone needs to be shouting from the roof top..."The King has no clothes!" Quit telling us how wonderful they are. Look at what we have here in these united States...Fascism. Perhaps that is because the Fabric of Liberty has been sold down the river as a contract with the "people" instead of with the "states" and a trilateral monarchy has been installed. If "christians" (some in name only) could only get wind of this that uprising spoken of by Henry Ford might just happen over night. But instead, we (some in name only) are kept in order as we (some in name only) are taught to pay homage to something that never should have been."
_________________________________________

When The Girl Scouts are setting the good example while Wall Street, The Military, The CIA, The IRS. The Federal Reserve, The President, Congress, and The UNJUST Department are making their theft, their fraud, their extortion, their kidnapping, their sexual assaults, their torture, their murdering, their serial killing, their mass murdering, and their destroying of life on Earth LEGAL, well, Houston: We may have a Problem.

If you look into history and find how difficult it was for the worst among us to take Liberty from us, such as Alexander Hamilton, who was shot by Aaron Burr in a duel, in our past, in our history in our homeland, in this country, looking back, and finding exactly how difficult it was for Despots and Criminals to take over, to exemplify all that can be made bad with government by the bad people, while good people, like Patrick Henry, Daniel Shays, The Abolitionists, the resistance, the resistance, the resistance, fight back, The Friends of Liberty, like Martin Luther in another country, the resistance, and like Martin Luther King in our country, resist, resist, resist, what?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther

"He strongly disputed the claim that freedom from God's punishment for sin could be purchased with money."

Get up.

Go to the bathroom.

Look in the mirror.

Question the falsehoods that have invaded and occupy your poor helpless brain. You will be judged for failure to resist tyranny.

That is s solid guarantee, and if it is NEWS to you, then get back up.

Go to the bathroom.

Look in the mirror.

Get to work. Sure it can be taxing, but who told you that you could get something for nothing?

Joe

Progress summation

Along this path on this invention, this form of currency, which is a text message posted on a virtual forum, not unlike a notice in the newspaper, and not unlike a series of pamphlets tacked onto a public access billboard, so far, the opening statement reports a condition of life on earth, at present, and general measure of potential change from that point of measuring here and now.

We will go, generally, deeper into the abyss where the false advertizement championed by Hamilton was to gain credit by gaining debt, which is exactly significant in that specific case.

Hey, you.

What.

Look at how good credit is, so here have this, it is wonderful, and very good for everyone, so take it, it is free, and don't listen to those naysayers, they are anti good credit, they are haters.

They are Anti-Federalists.

Hamilton stuck a false, but attractive, front on DEBT, and that false front was something The People already owned, which is CREDIT, or the capacity, the willful employment of productive capacity, to use scarce power given by God, and then make the powerful things that make life worth living abundant, and the false claim was to dangle a campaign promise of something for nothing, as if The People could earn Credit without actually applying individual invention, adaptation, psychological and physical labor, within the animated contest of competitive freedom.

Look ma no hands.

You can get this, and all you have to do is give me the keys to the National bank vault (it was a Federation not a Nation then).

People like Daniel Shays, or Patrick Henry, say, ahhhhhh, this is a familiar story, the liar is selling DEBT SLAVERY.

What to do, what to do, when The People have able representatives who stand in between the wannabe Masters and the Targeted Innocent Slaves?

Call them Anti-beings, call them the opposite of what they are, create a Man of Straw, and place that false front in front of the Truth.

Will the people buy such lies?

Talk about gambles.

Talk about betting the farms.

What if The People don't buy into False Credit which is in fact Debt Slavery.

Not to worry, there is one born every minute.

Get up.

Go to the bathroom.

Look in the mirror.

Then return and respond if you are a Friend of Liberty, or if not, hide, and kick out the weaker people who are hiding in those few remaining places, growing more and more scarce by the minute, where cowards can still hide, find a skirt, hide there, find anywhere to hide while you still can.

Joe

Evidence

There is only ONE path traveled by anyone, any one person, since time makes life a monopoly game, where your path is the one you take, not the one you don't take. But everyone does not have to follow the same path.

Bear you really do teach by your example of determination, so now I really have to be as determined to avoid speaking in riddles.

Our most recent discussion concerns parents and children and how that connection illustrates the power to pass on STUFF (power) from generation to generation.

Children have no experience so they are like sponges to water; where their capacity to fill up with water is high and where water is experiences, so they soak up experiences as parents tell stories to their children with words and deeds, as the children watch, listen, and learn, but not necessarily obey without question.

You may be looking for a specific thing that you need to know and my speeches that sound to you like riddles, and you letting me know that I am not providing the information you want to know, forces me (voluntarily) to work harder (taxing me voluntarily) to find a better way to communicate more effectively or more accurately.

Now we are back to a subject concerning Competitive Money Options.

Now I start out with this sentence:

There is only ONE path traveled by anyone, any one person, since time makes life a monopoly game, where your path is the one you take, not the one you don't take. But everyone does not have to follow the same path.

That is not intended to be a riddle, it intends to begin explaining how you or I, or anyone else, can know, without error, if there is Competitive Money Options or if the Options are all Counterfeit Options.

Making this personal may help, and so the idea is to first place in front of you the last two paths that you have in front of you and then you actually travel the path that you take and know the reasons why you choose that path, and then you can know one reason why one of many people choose that path and that helps explain all the people on this ONE path:

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Why did so many people "choose" the path that is denominated in U.S.A. Inc (LLC) Federal Reserve Legal Fraud Currency?

Why do so many people wake up and keep using the worst money that costs so much?

The answers are many but there is a common denominator, an answer that explains why so many people find their own reasons to keep using the worst money.

There is no competition. All the available LEGAL money is counterfeit, and fraudulent, with few exceptions (local currencies), your own currency (not necessarily "monetary" in a legal sense), and so people wake up knowing that PRESSURE is upon them, they must either die or pay taxes, and so they have to get some Dollars, or else, and the or else is to die trying.

If there were competition there would be evidence, hard evidence, right in front of you, leaving no room for doubt, you would have 1,000 choices each morning, and immediately you could discard all but 2 choices, and then you would proceed through the day earning and then gaining the "fruits of your labor" denominated in the best currency out of the 1,000 choices that you can pick from in the morning.

As soon as the one denomination you had been using becomes less competitive, during that day of earning the "fruits of your labor" denominated in that denomination that becomes worse that day, you know when waking up that you are not going to use that worse currency this new day, you will convert at the well known, and accurate exchange rate, and now, today, you earn the "fruits of your labor" denominated in the Competitive Money Option of today, not the non-competitive, non-money, non-option of yesterday.

That would be the evidence that proves the fact, in a personal way, so that you can now see why someone else may also be not choosing a Competitive Money from the available Options.

This ties in with the concept of a Competitive Legal Option too, in a very important way, a significant way, since our Political Power Choices are ONE, not two, and certainly not 50 States to choose from, because we have to use the same money.

So imagine working all day, or all week, or all year, trying desperately to earn the "fruits of your labor", you doing your special work, your husband doing his special work, your children just beginning to get the big picture by your example, where they too will begin to earn the "fruits of their labor" and you have had enough, things are not working out, you begin to look for a Competitive Option to the way things are, so you move from one State to another State, but you are still using the same Money.

Why?

Imagine, for a minute, that you are not you, and Jeff is not Jeff, instead you are imagining that you are Daniel Shays, and Jeff is another Revolutionary War veteran, you both earned the "fruits of your labor" by fighting violent battles against The Red Coats, and now, after you drove those bad guys off your Land, new bad guys in your State are taking what you earn, new bad guys in Massachusetts are stealing the "fruits of your labor" with fraudulent money, and so you have two choices in this imaginary exercise in practical political economy.

1.
An armed march on the State Armory to take the power to enforce the laws of your State away from the criminals and hire non-criminals to run the State instead of the State being run by criminals.

2.
Move to Vermont and let those criminals kill each other off if that is what they want to do with their power to earn the "fruits of their criminal labor".

You and Jeff move instead of doing what Daniel Shays did first. Daniel Shays chose the armed march on the Massachusetts Armory choice first, so as to regain control of his State government, he said: Give me Liberty or get the hell out of my way. He lost the military battle, and then moved to Vermont.

So in theory you can cut out the need to fight the military battle, when the Government is Truly a Competitive Money Option, and Truly a Competitive State Option, all you have to do, in reality, not theory, is to move to a State with non-criminals, no criminal military, and no criminal fraud money monopoly, just move, and let the violent criminals kill each other off in the criminal states, and let the criminal frauds cheat each other into their own self made poor house too, if that is their choice.

Back to reality.

You found out that the problems you intended to leave behind followed you in the form of a NATIONAL TAX DEBT denominated in a LEGAL MONEY FRAUD CURRENCY.

In the case of Daniel Shays, before the MONEY MONOPOLY FRAUDS took over the former Federal Government, making it a Nation State, Daniel Shays found sanctuary in Vermont.

Is that word an accurate word in this case?

You may be able to help clarify this particular focus of attention.

What does sanctuary mean?

Did I use the true meaning of the word (does the meaning of the word make sense in this context) or should I focus attention on a different word for what Daniel Shays found when he ran away from the enslavement forced upon him in Massachusetts, as he ran to Vermont and found sanctuary (or some other word the works better to describe what he found in Vermont when he ran from TAX DEBT slavery)?

Can I start using a Competitive Money Option this day?

Am I asking the same question if I ask: Can I stop providing the means by which I suffer this day?

Am I asking the same question if I ask: Can I stop allowing the "fruits of my labor" to flow, as power, from me to a very evil group of criminals who are hiding behind a False Front of National Law POWER, and a false front of National Money Monopoly Power, this day, so as to stop buying my own demise, and so that I can stop buying the demise of my own children, and so that I can stop buying the demise of any other innocent people anywhere as they will be crushed by those people collecting the "fruits of my labor" through the fraudulent legal money monopoly system?

BRIC is what?

I think it is another counterfeit money competitor.

If BRIC is "better" than The Dollar Hegemony then we will be paying into BRIC too, so that BRIC can steal better than The Dollar Hegemony.

Out with the old boss (master) and in with the new boss (master) as the one master sells the slaves to the other master, and some of us are worn out and pretty much used up by now, so we are sold at a discount.

A slave clearance sale.

Useless slaves are not worth the bullets it takes to shoot them.

Runaway slaves, on the other hand, are very dangerous to Legal Criminals, they cost a lot to crush, and some of them refuse to pay the bills that are charged to them for the costs of crushing them.

Joe

Permission

May I have permission as I develop a new OP to include these words:

According to Josf to beat them at their game we must:
1) End the Fed
2) Stop the IRS
3) Bring our troops home

Would you like me to add a link where you define those three things or leave that for you to do? Or not use your words or ID at all or change the way I am saying it? Your 3 points are integral to my OP thought.

Seeking your permission, bear

I have also a post below where I replied to your post above. My mind at work while cleaning house....before my mom shows up at the last minute! Looking forward to seeing them though.

NP OP

__________________________________________
May I have permission as I develop a new OP to include these words:

According to Josf to beat them at their game we must:
1) End the Fed
2) Stop the IRS
3) Bring our troops home
_________________________________________

Short answer: Yes

That happens to be the Ron Paul plan unless I have been incapable of receiving the message from Ron Paul accurately.

Part of the problem has to do with a fashionable desire for duplicity whereby people can speak a whole lot, say nothing, since their own words contradict their own words.

All that aside for the moment, you can publish whatever you think will help reach the goals you see worth reaching and if I see opportunity to make the messages more accurate I can (so far) defend my own viewpoint as well as I can.

Ron Paul and Joe Kelley see how Liberty can be defended by:

1. Produce a better money and that Ends the FED.
2. Keep the fruits of our labor and that Ends the IRS.
3. Keep our best and brightest from the Legal Criminals and that Brings the Troops Home.

I can see why you may not want to attribute that wording to Ron Paul, but you sure can attribute that wording to me, since I wrote those words.

Joe

Thank you

Thank you Joe Kelley, I have modified as and will probably say something like the following:
_________________________

We have seen Ron Paul speak on these issues and Joe Kelley has written these words for me. They exemplify how Liberty can be defended by:

1. Produc[ing] a better money and that Ends the FED.
2. Keep[ing] the fruits of our labor and that Ends the IRS.
3. Keep[ing] our best and brightest from the Legal Criminals and that Brings the Troops Home.
____________________________

It is a little scary to create another post as it may go over like a lead balloon after the last one created some energy. But I felt inspired earlier this week, so we will see if I continue to feel such enough to put a new one out there. Does it not frighten you to use your real name?

Fear or concern?

Fear can be defined as the reaction a deer may experience as a deer is caught in the headlights.

Concern is more like this:

"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth -- to know the worst and to provide for it."

I know that criminals, with or without badges, can find me whereever I may go, and my stand on Liberty was announced quite some time ago, publicly, when I ran for congress.

I ran on the "it ain't nice to torture and murder babies in Waco Texas" ticket, so stop feeding the Legal Criminals, please, campaign slogan.

The worst of the bad guys know where I live. The lesser of the bad guys are more on my side then theirs.

What do I have to fear, pain, they may torture my children in front of me?

Do you think that I didn't know this fact when I ran for congress?

Welcome to the battle, Bear, it is nice to see the girls showing how the men should act.

Who's going to be our next reinforcements: The Girl Scouts?

Which reminds me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Cm-uRQmfUU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcD8UVr90

Those women speak out, and they know the score too.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Joe

Question

Good question

I have very little to do with any modern group of people who employ the word socialism as their label because almost all modern versions of socialism and capitalism are of the involuntary association versions, or counterfeit versions.

This question:

Are you part of the ISO?

That question to me is like asking me if I support involuntary associations voluntarily.

The answer is no to all of them, every single involuntary association of any kind is crime and to support one is to "provide the means by which we suffer" and frankly I am past that state of stupefaction.

Even those people who profit the most from those involuntary associations are torturing and killing their own chance to make the most of their precious time alive.

In my opinion all human beings who willfully support involuntary associations (crime) are waking zombies to one degree or another as each resort to deceit upon the innocent, and each resort to threats of violence upon the innocent, and each resort to violence upon the innocent will injure their own capacity to nurture the power of moral conscience, they are killing their own power to know better, and that path will grow exponentially worse each lie, each threat, and each cut they inflict upon their innocent targets, as they kill their own self image, their own livelihood, and their own capacity to find happiness while they have that chance.

That is the long answer.

The short answer is NO.

Or HELL NO.

Joe

Another Question

If you are not a member of ISO do you support their ideology? Please do not get hung up on the word ideology. I don't know what other to use right now.

Unspeakable?

Can you quote anyone supporting any ideology?

If they support an involuntary association then they support deceit and from deceit there can only be an exponential growth of deceit, so that is what they support, and anything else they support will be consumed by criminals, eventually, since that is what happens on that path.

The producers, or the source of power, transfer power to the worst people imaginable and those worst people imaginable grow more powerful.

This is not good news for people who support involuntary associations because the best time to stop supporting involuntary associations is at the start when the producers are strongest and the worst people imaginable are weakest, as time goes by the producers, or the source of power, grow weaker while the worst people imaginable grow stronger.

The longer people remain caught in that closed loop the tighter the loop becomes and it strangles the producers of the power that is required for life.

Please consider quoting from someone who supports their ideology so as to offer a specific thing to judge under closer, and specific, perusal.

Note:

Voluntary, Liberated, Honest, Productive, People are tricked into joining Socialism or Capitalism (Thesis) and immediately there is an opposite (Anti-Thesis) created so as to divide people (and conquer them: synthesis), and those ideologies (Socialism or Capitalism or any label will do) start out voluntary, but as soon as the "enemy" is created the volunteers are told that there is only one way to defeat the evil enemy forces, and the only way to do so is to turn to your neighbor and force your neighbor to pay involuntary taxes, and thereby each subject in the Kingdom takes it upon his, or her, self to look under every rock, every hiding place, and find any Tax Evaders, and burn them at the stake.

So...

Everyone becomes their brother's keeper, and no one is safe from anyone, and the involuntary association (Legal Crime) is a closed loop, no way out, no place to run, and no place to hide.

T.E.?

When the Involuntary Socialists report exactly how evil the Involuntary Capitalists are, they are then telling the truth.

When the Involuntary Capitalists report exactly how evil the Involuntary Socialists are, they are then telling the truth.

When the Involuntary Socialists report how ambiguously evil the Voluntary Capitalists are, they are lying.

When the Involuntary Capitalists report how ambiguously evil the Voluntary Socialists are, they are lying.

Why do you think evil people insult other people so often?

Do they feel the need to see their own image in a better light by comparison with the false image they must rap around their targeted victims (Straw Man)?

What is transference and projection?

Do you see the down votes cast upon me? If they had a button to shock me with electricity, to cause me pain, and they could press that button all day long, without anyone knowing they were doing that to me, would they press that button?

Would they then feel so much better about themselves as I writhe in pain?

Joe

Involuntary Association

You know, as I think back, I read words your comments and instead of asking you exactly what those words mean, I began trying to put my own puzzle together to try to figure you out on my own for fear that you were a bad character or sorts. That was probably unfair of me, but not purposefully done in a to hurt you, but rather to protect myself. Now, I am going to come straight out and ask this:

"If they support an involuntary association then they support deceit and from deceit there can only be an exponential growth of deceit, so that is what they support, and anything else they support will be consumed by criminals, eventually, since that is what happens on that path."

Joe, I really don't even understand completely the whole voluntary/involunary argument.

I am a voluntary member of a church. Anything I do towards that effort is voluntary on my part. Other people will join my church after I have joined. Does that become an involuntary association? The church may democratically decide to do something that I might not want to do. I do not have to participate; however, it is best for the organization if I agree to disagree in an agreeable way and be supportive of an effort since we act as a body. I suppose that is socialism in the sense of family or military? I can un-volunteer to be a member anytime I want to alot easier than I can un-volunteer from alot of other things that seem to be forced on me. Like perhaps crazy neighbors that move in next to me. I have also been a volunteer member of a church were plans were already set in stone and then voted upon so as to make it appear that the church was in agreement, when in reality there was no other choice. I would say that would be involuntary when a democratic process is run rough shod over by those in leadership. I’d rather someone just say: “This is what we are doing and you have no choice” instead of pretending to tell me that I had a voice. I hate manipulation and why some people in leadership want to control and manipulate is beyond me.

Baptist churches are not protestant. They claim they did not come out of the Catholic church. They claim that there have always been independent assemblies of worship outside a state church. That is why so many of the markers like infant baptism, centralized non-local government and other sacraments are not found in the Baptist church. Each local Baptist church acts autonomously and only voluntarily supports organized efforts between or with other churches.

Jeff just started reading thru Psalms…1 a day so today he is on the 7th Psalm. What do you think of this verse: Psalm 7:11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day. That is a message that is rarely spoken: God being angry with the wicked. Everyone, including me wants to talk about love. But I suppose love is angry with wickedness because the innocent become the victims of the wicked.

Yesterday I felt so tired after reading your replies I had no energy to write plus I really didn’t know about it until I asked Jeff all I have heard is a bunch of commotion. Chick Fil A: Dan Cathy is the founder and owner, and has spoken out about marriage being between a man and a woman. I think Chick Fil A wanted to open a restaurant in Boston MA, but the Mayer would not allow it because of Cathy’s marriage position. So Huckabee rallied Christians to have a Chick Fil A day on Aug 1 and I guess a bunch of people patronized Chick Fil A that day. So sad that “Christians” will go fill our guts with chicken while we pay Caesar blood money and do nothing about that. People are easily manipulated. I am not so sure that this was not just another divisive ploy and I do not trust Huckabee. I told Jeff: Isn’t it Boston’s right not to have a restaurant that they don’t want. Jeff said it was the Mayor who had “certain” support. He said that that certain support preaches tolerance but is rabidly intolerant. It is all very confusing to me. Which is why I asked you.

I see all that as more barbed wire wrapped around war horse. Did you see the clip or the movie? I just want to know so I can know if you understand the imagery the way I do.

Willful understanding

_________________________________
Joe, I really don't even understand completely the whole voluntary/involunary argument.

I am a voluntary member of a church. Anything I do towards that effort is voluntary on my part. Other people will join my church after I have joined. Does that become an involuntary association?
__________________________________

I have been challenged daily, playing a game of chess on my own, and challenged by other people in person, in typed messaged, and phone calls, so this ground is covered over and over again, refining it, adapting, improving, and knowing better each time. You can pay too. You can ask the questions and answer the questions better, and settle for no less than the most accurate answers.

Before I offer my latest, best, answer, I am inclined to defend myself as to the claim that I have an argument to report to anyone. I do not argue, I see no point in it.

As to an involuntary association I can offer an angle of view written in English whereby another person, not me, but another person will target a victim and the goal of the criminal is to create an involuntary association by the commission of a crime upon the targeted victim.

That is the full meaning of an involuntary association as it will be defined by the criminal who initiates the actions that are designed to accomplish the involuntary association and by the victim who fails to employ the necessary power that would defend against the involuntary association were the victim capable of doing so somehow.

If a victim becomes a victim, by definition of that word, by definition of that condition of life, victimization, the victim is involuntarily associated with that condition of life made that way by the person who "volunteered" the victim into becoming a victim.

So my words in English fail to define exactly what is or is not an involuntary association up until the time where one is invented, produced, and maintained, and then an honest criminal can describe in English exactly how the criminal defined that involuntary association, and again in English, the victim can describe exactly how the victim was "volunteered" into "joining" the involuntary association.

Criminal:

I saw the dude, I decided to injure the dude, I then beat the dude up, and while I was at it I stole his power to purchase and his power to defend himself, on the spot, now you can call that anything you want, it matters not to me, I'm going to keep doing it, you next, and furthermore, you had better not question my association to the last victim, or you, or my next victim, or I'll take off a few fingers, not just your wallet.

Victim:

I saw the dude, he walked right up to me, and he beat upon me until I was unconscious, and when I woke up my wallet was gone, and he left a note saying that he would be back, and now I am apparently connected to this person against my will, I attest to that fact, in case you are harboring any doubt whatsoever as to that fact, and I was not asking for it.

Person A associates with Person B.

Person B prefers not to be associated with Person A in the way that person A insists upon associating with person B.

What is the nature of the association?

It is criminal.

Why is it criminal?

Because person B prefers not to be associated to Person A in the way that person A insists upon associating with person B.

Why does person B prefer not to be "volunteered" to be beat up and rendered powerless against being beat up by Person A?

I think you may be missing the point if you have to ask.

The victim is rendered powerless by the acts that cause involuntary associations, had the victim been powerful enough to defend against such things, there would be no involuntary association.

I'm confused?

There are people who prefer to be beat up, and rendered powerless, and I suppose you could call them "victims", but if they are honest, and they confess, they say something like: "Here, take this money, I'll pay you handsomely, if you will please beat me up."

Is that a voluntary association?

More confusion?

There are people who are fooled into believing that it is a good idea to choose the lesser of two evils so as to be beaten up by the lesser of two evils and so as to be rendered powerless by the lesser of two evils since the lie here is that the lesser of two evils is lesser evil.

Both evils beat up the fool and both evils render the fool powerless and that certainly can get confusing as the fool does everything a victims does, and the fool does everything a sadomasochist does, but the fool is so damn foolish that the fool claims that he or she has volunteered to spread democracy or save babies or get justice or some other lie on top of the other fools first lie he, or she, bought at that very high price. Before long, on that foolish path, that involuntary association, the fool is as evil as the two evils he willfully chooses, and there is no longer any fooling about it.

"The church may democratically decide to do something that I might not want to do. I do not have to participate; however, it is best for the organization if I agree to disagree in an agreeable way and be supportive of an effort since we act as a body. I suppose that is socialism in the sense of family or military?"

If you have any trouble at all with the ISO because the words "socialism" is falsely placed in front of a bunch of criminals so as to hide their crimes, then drop the word socialism all together. Leave that word behind, it is just a word, and the original meaning is as useless as someone claiming to be a Liberal.

If the situation you described at Church is accurate then there are ways to measure how accurate that situation is, in fact. If you can opt out, then it is a voluntary association. If you can't opt out, then it is not a voluntary association.

Why are you employing examples of a voluntary association if you are trying to understand what I mean by an involuntary association?

You can't fornicate your way back to virginity, you can't cut your head off to stop a headache, you can't solve the problem by making the problem worse, you can't exemplify an involuntary association, so as to understand how it works, if you exemplify a voluntary association.

If you want to discuss apples, it does not make much sense to get an orange and call it an apple, so as to discuss apples while we have oranges in view.

They are both round.

Then what?

They are both associations.

So...?

"I suppose that is socialism in the sense of family or military?"

If the counterfeit father beats the wife and rapes the kids, or burns them, cuts off their heads, and eats them, then are we talking about a family or a crime in progress?

Why confuse the two?

If George Washington takes over command of an all volunteer army and then starts paying the volunteers he doesn't like with worthless paper and the one's he does like he pays with land titles and gold, contracts, and favors, positions of authority and other dirty deals, then we are talking about a crime in progress not The Military, so why confuse the two?

Whose best interest is served when criminals enforcing involuntary associations are confused with non-criminals not enforcing involuntary associations?

1.
The criminals are hidden, and their badness that isn't hidden doesn't look so bad when good people are close by looking good, and making it easy for the bad to look less bad.

2.
The victims are hidden, and their victimization isn't that obvious as the criminals claim to be saving the victims from themselves.

3.
Good people who are pointing out the whole charade are stoned to death, figuratively, and sometimes literally, by the victims because the victims end up loving their chains.

Stockholm Syndrome?

How many reasons are reasonably understandable concerning why it is not a good idea to confuse the criminals with non-criminals unless you are a criminal?

Then it is OK, or in Alexander I. Solzhenitsyn's words, one can't exist without the other: there must be falsehood or there will be much less violence.

Please confuse the bad guys and the good guys, please. That is how I make my living, proceed, please.

I can claim further that once The Business Psycho is allowed to get rolling it goes faster and get's bigger at an alarmingly fast rate.

The nature of volume to surface area, a snow ball rolling down a mountain of snow, illustrates the process.

A violent crime picks up a few more lies, and then more violence, more violence, more lies, and the actual mass of the beast is measurable as human flesh.

Victims who fall over each other, kill each other, for a ticket to get in front of the snow ball are no longer victims, they get caught up too.

It is a big mountain of snow, start rolling.

"Like perhaps crazy neighbors that move in next to me."

Do you mean people who vote for Mitt or Obummer, that crazy?

How much crazier can it get when people send the power they need for defense to people who torture and mass murder with that money sent?

I can't imagine anything crazier.

Oh, one thing is crazier, sure, sending money to torturing mass murderers who are also set on ending the human species. So, those people moved in next door, they are causing torture and mass murder and they are causing the extinction of mankind as they provide the means by which we all suffer, and some die a lot sooner than others, that way.

That sure is crazy.

Now what?

"I hate manipulation and why some people in leadership want to control and manipulate is beyond me."

1.
Power flows from the victims to the criminals and then criminals are stronger, and more able to get more power, and victims are weaker, and less able to stop having their power stolen.

2.
Without manipulation the criminals would have only naked violence, out in the open, to get power from their victims.

That which is beyond you is upon you, fail to see it and there may be a perishable comfort in that condition.

Here is where I really don't get it, since a quick look at a National Tax form measures actual power flowing to very bad people from anyone who is ordered to pay without question. Look at the form, question it.

What happens?

Ron Paul could end the IRS, it is not beyond possibility, especially if enough people look at their Tax forms and they decide to question it, and whatever happens next, after that vital step, anything may happen in our own best interest.

Why not? Who can stop us if we get a Liberty snow ball rolling?

No more "providing the means by which we suffer" that way, by that much, right there in reality, in front of your face, right there, the actual numbers the real deal, the real thing, no Utopian Dreamscape, no fantasy, actual measures of actual power flowing, flowing, flowing, while the fools remain foolish, and then in time they become that which they once may have abhorred, they become Friends of Despotism, licking the chains that they so lovingly rap around other people.

1. Keep paying those National taxes and get exactly what you paid for - what you deserve.

2. Stop that nonsense (look ma, no more IRS!)

Here, here, it is for your own good, let me help you, the bad guys might break your legs, and you MUST pay your "fair share", we all do, we are all in this together, so let me help you, take these chains, love them, like me, isn't it wonderful, but what, what, WHAT, you refuse! Do you know what happens to those who refuse? Oh, but your legs are broken, isn't that sad, see, see, I warned you, now pay, when you get better, pay, and pay, like us, just like us, isn't that nice now.

All better.

All better now.

Pay, pay, and pay.

Isn't that so nice?

You don't want your legs broken do you?

No, no, no, you don't, so pay, yes, yes, pay, pay, isn't that nice, no more broken legs, so nice, ahhhhh, ahhhhh, isn't that so nice?

OH, look, another conspiracy theorist, a future terrorist, refusing to pay, and ohhhh, ohhhh, look, see, more broken legs, and now all is nice again, ahhhhh, so nice.

I'm tired of it. It is just so much drama. What is the point?

Look at the form, look at the National Tax form, stop paying.

How?

Ron Paul is riding a new age, a wave, a Liberty wave, and it is unmistakable, and it came from somewhere, waves happen more than once, find out how it happened, ride that wave.

Look at the form, look at the National Tax form, stop paying it.

How?

How many people does it take to defend Liberty?

"Each local Baptist church acts autonomously and only voluntarily supports organized efforts between or with other churches."

Legal Criminals hiding behind an enforced association to their "church" don't like any competitors since any competitors steal their victims from them, no matter what the competitor thinks, and no matter what the competitor says, and no matter what is written on the competitor's stationary.

Baptist who are not "volunteered" are competitors.

If Baptists start "volunteering" members involuntarily, despite any protest, then Baptists can still be competitors, but the market is no longer the same market.

1.
Voluntary membership competition (hey, our membership is better, you are welcome to join)

2.
Involuntary membership competition (hey, you are muscling in on our turf, so I'm "volunteering" you and your members to join us, we are not joining you)

"But I suppose love is angry with wickedness because the innocent become the victims of the wicked."

I have to guess here: maybe God has not made me born again because I will be working to fight the wicked in some way that is not the work of God's Children.

I can't believe things I don't believe, that would be counterfeiting, but I can guess.

"People are easily manipulated."

I do not use my work association as a medium of exchanging political (defense of liberty) information not because of some rule that says I should not, but because that connection is a work connection, specific to work, and I have no problem voicing my point of view if there are connections that way too, in parallel, which may happen, inevitably.

Did the food selling business try to gain currency in the food selling business by selling politics as an advertizement strategy?

Was that a poor investment?

"Isn’t it Boston’s right not to have a restaurant that they don’t want."

There is no such thing as Boston if your thinking intends to accurately identify any power that can be remotely associated with an idea such as a "right".

People have "rights" (within their power to defend them)

Boston is a legal fiction, is has no "rights" (powerful liars or dupes may say otherwise)

I prefer to think in terms of a power struggle.

People who had enough power did use that power to accomplish a specific goal that those people spent the power they had in reaching that goal.

Those people (not Boston) forced a seller of food, and politics, out of business?

Did they force out of business the seller of food or the seller of politics?

Who controlled Boston legal power?

You must know by now that the Legal Criminals are everywhere, and Boston is no different, so criminals will do what criminals do best, why would that be confusing?

If the law power was not criminal then there would be an accuser of someone having done some wrong to someone else, and there would be due process, and due process would be the same due process afforded to everyone, without exception, or the exceptions would prove how far from equitable law those exceptions are excepted.

How far are we when some people are rewarded very large amounts of power, reaching as close as humans can get to absolute power, for being frauds, extortionists, torturers, and mass murderers; meanwhile someone else, failing to pay the breathing tax, is kidnapped, raped, beaten, and held captive for years.

How far from equitable law can it get?

How many people are so eager to find out how bad it can get that they are looking under every rock for anyone who may not be paying their fair share as fast as they pay their fair share?

Talk about poor investments.

"I see all that as more barbed wire wrapped around war horse. Did you see the clip or the movie? I just want to know so I can know if you understand the imagery the way I do."

I can see the horse as being the process called Liberty, not a Country, and certainly not a Nation.

The animated contest of freedom, or Liberty, or voluntary association, all processes, can be seen as that horse, yes, I see that, and that process is dying of a thousand cuts, in that scene.

We are not dead yet.

We are not beating a dead horse either. Either I stand for something or I will fall for anything (Vicki Kelley).

Joe

Differences

You can always tell the difference between apples and oranges: Even golden delicious and red delicious; tangerines and oranges; nectarines & peaches; lemons & limes; bananas and plantains...that is why I ask you. My senses are dull in so many ways: half the time I forget there are criminals on the loose and I don’t think of the evil being done. As far as I can tell, that reality stays every present before your eyes. From a Christian perspective, it has always been reinforced not to cheat on taxes, but to be honest in all of one’s dealings. Was there ever a time when taxes were used for good? I remember hearing at one point in time they were only 2%. I tell Jeff all the time they are making us pay til July15. He doesn’t seem to have a problem. I tell him soon it will be September. How much is too much? He wouldn’t buy the fact that we are 100% taxed as brought up by one of my “ranters.” Honestly, I think if Jeff ever admits any of it it will be very dangerous for him to own up to. Perhaps that is what keeps people blind. The truth is too much. I can see how it would be worse for him than for me. He answers for our family. I always ask him why it was OK for the revolutionaries when breaking with England. No one can tell me. We have to go to a patriotic rally Saturday night presented by the Wall Builders. http://wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=100766 My 10 year old is supposed to help recite the Preamble to the Constitution along with his Christian School classmates. It concerns me that this may be a front to rally Christians around the GOP presumed nominee. I don’t know. I am suspicious of everything now days. I am concerned also because you are sounding more on edge as if you feel the need to do something and I do not want you to hear me condone that in any way.

Doing something

I work on defining the problem and refining the workable steps toward remedy, and that is why I like Ron Paul's solution so much because they arrive at the same solutions.

1. Ignore the FED and it goes away.
2. Ignore the IRS and it goes away.
3. Ignore the criminals ordering The Troops and the Troops lead themselves right on home.

How many people does it take to defend Liberty?

Answer;

Each one.

Joe

Seeing Something

I can see this as the title of a post:

How many people does it take to defend Liberty?

body:

Answer: Each One!

I work on defining the problem and refining the workable steps toward remedy, and that is why I like Ron Paul's solution so much because they arrive at the same solutions.

1. Ignore the FED and it goes away.
2. Ignore the IRS and it goes away.
3. Ignore the criminals ordering The Troops and the Troops lead themselves right on home.

How many people does it take to defend Liberty?

Answer:

Each one.

Stutter

What is the deal with the stutters? I didn't push save more than once. I notice it has been happening to you too.

Tell Me

Then why would you send me a link from them (ISO)? That is anathema to me. I wouldn't trust a thing they said and see it as subversion. I realize that enemy is in the white house, but I view ISO as a pack of jackals, or part of them. I am very upset about even watching the video. You may have sent the link before, I can’t remember now, but it is very upsetting now. You say this: “Welcome to the battle, Bear, it is nice to see the girls showing how the men should act.” And then you proceed to send me a link of 2 women speaking for ISO. I am deeply offended and am angry. What exactly are your intentions? I don't even know what a volutary socialist is and I fear it is an enemy.

Yes, I saw that this OP was now down voted, and it makes me mad. But I am also afraid of you. Tell me what is a voluntary socialist and why are you sending me involuntary socialist links. I looked at the ISO homepage it has a fist in the air. I am angry and scared. Our country and I am sorry I am calling it that is being ripped apart at the seams and the jackels are gathering and it is those ISO people that will be responsible for cleansing the population so everyone can be volunatarily part of nothing, but in reality there will be a criminal at the top much worse than what is at the top now.

Did you see War Horse? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-_s81WQxfY

I did. Our nation and dont get mad at that term. I am sick and tired right now of making sure every word that comes out is correct. Here, Here are These United States…that horse. And you are scaring me with the socialist stuff.

Angry Bear

"I am deeply offended and am angry."

Prejudice can get ugly, please consider picking up the bible and finding a relevant scripture.

If you ask me if I fear having my real name published I will link people who have their names published and they speak their mind.

You convict both women of being associated with an organization that makes you angry, so naturally you convict both women of being members of a pack of jackals.

I carefully chose one women from the right side of things, a person who leans toward capitalism, and one that leans toward socialism.

You convict both of being members of a pack of jackals - whatever that means.

The actual messages are factual, and the facts being reported by those jackals are examples of individuals doing the least taxing thing I can think of, which is to question authority.

The point was to point out how fear can be overcome if there is fear, and if there is a desire to remain anonymous because of fear, then do so, I don't see the point, and two women obviously don't see the point of remaining anonymous either.

When torturing and murdering is made legal, I suppose the torturing murderers are less of a concern than the women who report the facts about the torturing murderers, is that how this works?

"What exactly are your intentions? I don't even know what a volutary socialist is and I fear it is an enemy."

So, I suppose, you fear the unknown, and you fear those who you are told to fear, while my intentions, my actual words, advise against fear, since fear can be destructive, and fear can be immobilizing, and the causes of fear can be causes of concern instead, and concern can be used to work toward effective remedy.

If I ring a bell will you drool?

"Tell me what is a voluntary socialist and why are you sending me involuntary socialist links."

The report by an American Iranian Doctor Woman was informative, even if she is associated with very bad people, as we all are, in one way or another (The FED, the IRS, etc.), the intent was to look at the fearlessness, and if you can get past the messenger and listen to the message, and judge the message, then I'd appreciate a competitive angle of view concerning the accuracy of the message.

The report by the other woman is particularly instructive in how a person may handle close association with very evil people, and despite the risks, the person speaks the truth without a mask, without cover, without anonymity, and is therefore sticking her neck out very far.

Fear?

You brought up the subject. I answered.

"Our nation and dont get mad at that term."

You convict those 2 women of being jackals and now you order me to not get mad at you for using a word?

This is instructive, since my understanding of the message offered by Jesus is such that speaking the truth, as those women did, despite all the potential hazards, is what God demands of us.

Why cast stones at those women, and do you really think that I get mad at you for thinking in terms of One Nation Under God and all that baloney?

You will suffer as a result of your mistakes and that may be the only way for you to learn not to make mistakes, I don't know, but I am not mad. This is instructive, and you do teach.

You do not, normally, foam a the mouth when a bell is rung, and so far, perhaps only the norm of your behavior as can be seen by me, you write your own script.

Teachers don't read from scripts, since that will only teach a student how to read from scripts.

"Tell me [again] what is a voluntary socialist and why are you sending me involuntary socialist links."

Any voluntary family member is a voluntary socialist if English conveys accurate meaning.

Any voluntary member of the military is a voluntary socialist if English conveys accurate meaning.

Any person who buys an insurance policy is a voluntary socialist (unless failure to "buy" an insurance policy is against the "law")

Any person who buys stock on a company is a voluntary socialists if English means anything.

What is socialism?

According to whose official definition: what is socialism?

Joe

The 2 women I was speaking of

The 2 women I was speaking of were in the one ISO video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcD8UVr90

I am angry because you said: Welcome to the battle, Bear, it is nice to see the girls showing how the men should act.

And included that link above. You have not told me what an voluntary socialist is. Please Joe, tell me in your own words. I am not going to look in the dictionary.

The jackals come in when the Economic Hit Man does not get what he wants...I learned that from the Economic Hit Man video you sent me.

Did you watch the war horse link?

Socialism

Socialism is the scientific study of society and the application of that knowledge toward improving the function of society.

Voluntary socialism tends to improve the function of society so as to increase the quality of life equitably while reducing the cost of life as equitably.

Involuntary socialism tends to destroy society but manages to transfer power from the producers of power to those who use the study of society to transfer power from the producers of power to the people who gain the power of knowledge gained through the scientific study of society.

If all the potential innocent victims knew how society works as well as the Legal Criminals there would be no innocent volunteers joining the effort to enforce involuntary socialism on anyone, save for the sociopaths and the psychopaths but without innocent victims those sociopaths and those psychopaths would be at each others throats doing what they do best, cutting each others' throats, or stabbing each other in the back.

A person born into involuntary socialism (or involuntary capitalism) is innocent of blame concerning that which is forced upon them by deceit, threats of violence, and violence, up until the time they realize their part in the agonizing torture made legal, and up until the time they realize their part in the bloody murder, and if they continue to "volunteer" more victims into the meat grinder, then they can hardly be accounted accurately as being innocent.

Once they know, they can claim to not know, you know, just following orders, but at that point God will be their judge, not their own creative lies, and the lies of their fellow Friends of Legal Crime.

"The jackels come in when the Economic Hit Man does not get what he wants..."

The Women's club of mighty socialist speakers don't scare me, but you may know more than I about that group.

Joe