78 votes

DailyPaul under attack

My fellow DailyPaulers:

I believe we're under attack and "divide and conquer" is the strategy.
I think I can date it to it happening when Dr. Paul issued his message to his supporters, in addition to Rand endorsing Romney. Some here looked at it as if he was admitting defeat and that he would not have the needed delegates. Those that saw it this way started threads stating they would now be voting for Johnson, or (shudder) Romney.

Others here saw the message as "it's not over and we've done A LOT better than we ever expected". At no time during his message, did Dr. Paul actually admit defeat, or state that he would drop out of the race. So Dr. Paul ran for president "not expecting to do as well as he's done"? It'd be wise to read between the lines here folks. I think a lot of people here, sadly AND PREMATURELY, threw in the towel on someone that has never given up on us. Dr. Paul has not thrown in the towel yet. Ask yourself why? This is politics, and in the game of politics, you can't show your entire hand. Not to mention that Romney keeps stumbling in this race (a little over 6 weeks to go) as more pressure to reveal his tax records continue, and believe it or not, even MSM is informing the masses of the way his campaign, along with the GOP, have handled these caucuses with their fraud and coercion. All we need now is for MSM to start bringing up the fact that he profited from aborted fetuses and that he was responsible for Obamacare through Romneycare. He was actually booed for 15 seconds by the NAACP today for stating that he would repeal Obamacare. Oh well.....

The other infighting that has developed here has been attributed to the Lawyers For Ron Paul lawsuit. Some here think it's a bad idea and think it will kill their chances at voting their conscience. That's ASSUMING and wholeheartedly having faith in that the GOP will play fair and stand by their own rules. HA! Let the record show. While others here want the fraud brought to light in hopes of restraining the GOP from changing their own rules (as it has done in the past & continues to do) at the convention and in the future. This also has the added benefit of possibly converting Romney delegates into Paul delegates, once they've seen the travesties that have occurred by their chosen candidate. Also, Ron Paul has gone on record in the past stating that he would like to see legal action pursued if sufficient evidence came to light. Likewise, even though it has been brought to his attention many times, he has NOT denounced this lawsuit. WHY?

So aside from differences of opinions here, now that we are a legitimate threat to the status quo, we also have a large influx of trolls - which are easy to spot.

I have ONE simple request; I call for us to stand united WITH Dr. Paul.

If you fall into the one of the groups of Romney/Johnson because you gave up and you truly believe he can no longer win and is unelectable - that is your prerogative and your decision will be respected. However, at least have the decency and honor to not give up on him and his race UNTIL AFTER (in your opinion) he withdraws from the race. It's only six weeks! Is that too much to ask? My two cents and peace to you all.

RON PAUL 2012



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DailyPaul site a treath?

I just was redirected and told that the Daily Paul site is a treath with Malware. Anybody else had this message and was redirected
see:
http://www.stopbadware.org/firefox?hl=nl&url=http%3A%2F%2Fww...

"And remember, a half-truth is far more dangerous then a complete lie, because the complete lie is going to be discovered sooner or later - just a little intelligence is needed. But the half-truth is very dangerous, even intelligent people, very intellige

I got the same message....

I just ignored it.

Dagny
"I don't know if the world is full of smart men bluffing
or imbeciles who mean it."

Why Don't You Just Be Honest

This is just another "plug" for L4RP.

Yes we are under attack, by those who would downvote valid opinions.

The proof is right below my comment...those who have expressed any "critical-thinking" re the lawsuit are being downvoted right now at this very moment.

I support RP2012.
But don't piss on my leg and tell me it ain't raining.

"Beyond the blackened skyline, beyond the smoky rain, dreams never turned to ashes up until.........
...Everything CHANGED !!

No need for a plug danton - the deadline has already expired

Instead of your cheap attempts and turning this thread hostile as you have others, why don't you just go away troll? Don't like being called troll? Why don't you stop trying to cause trouble and friction wherever you post? You don't like people pissing on your leg? NEWSFLASH - neither do they! Your opinion for critical thinking goes for BOTH SIDES WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT. See that's the beauty of LIBERTY.

When I say we're "under attack", I'm talking about ourselves. We're fighting ourselves instead of the enemy. The unnecessary infighting here on topics that we have already agreed to disagree on. The differences of opinion are clear and both sides are standing their ground. Fine, let's move on.

The way I see it, BOTH SIDES have VALID points, but I personally believe that if this lawsuit - even if all it does is bring attention to the dirty tactics that the GOP has done in regards to the delegates, then it will have been well worth it. Cause frankly, here's what I believe will happen if no action is taken; THE GOP WILL CHANGE THEIR RULES AGAIN regardless of the fact that Dr. Paul has the 5 states AND regardless of the fact that the delegates are "supposed" to be unbound. Do you seriously think they're going to play fair and let Dr. Paul have a chance at being nominated at the convention? The GOP has not done anything to make me think otherwise. Thanks to this lawsuit, and the media coverage it has been given, A LOT more eyes will be watching. As for those that are worried that they may be blacklisted if they join the suit, well I can only laugh if they think that by not joining they won't be. Simply being Paul delegates this go round will certify that.

Everyone here has a right to their opinions, but when trolls such as yourself constantly attack members here with mockery and name-calling, it gets childish. You want your opinion respected? Respect others as well.What's funny is that you whine and cry about it when you get down-voted. Stop being butt-hurt about being down-voted (all it means is someone doesn't agree with you - OH MY!) AND Grow up!

If you you are going to reply in a childish manner trying to bait me, rest assured I'll grant you the last word.

Last Word? How Gracious of You

"I have ONE simple request; I call for us to stand united WITH Dr. Paul. "

Agreed....But since you also state:"Everyone here has a right to their opinions...."???? Everyone YOU deem to be "worthy"?
...Guess I'll keep on exercising my right to free speech...Just like John Adams did. Ever watch "1776" The Musical? Check it out sometime.

Your:"My way, or the Highway" Ultimatums are childish, yet you dare to accuse others of that which you are...so..why don't YOU grow up.
BTW:
The "whining and crying"?......give me your address and I'll send YOU a box of "kleenex"...that's tissues ICYDNK.

I must be over the target considering all the flak I'm getting.
Finally:
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me.
Good Luck with "YOUR LAWSUIT"...really...Always said that.
And should we meet in Tampa?..I'd probably buy ya a beer, cause this is renting more space in your head than in mine.

"Beyond the blackened skyline, beyond the smoky rain, dreams never turned to ashes up until.........
...Everything CHANGED !!

robot999's picture

Are you

a delegate or alternate going to Tampa? yes/no

"Government is the entertainment division of the military-industrial complex". - Frank Zappa

No, he's just the DailyPaul Potstirrer

Instead of being productive you know? There's a poster that goes by the username "Evil Warlord King Of Trolls", and I'm starting to believe he's one and the same.

The divide is an illusion

People against lawsuits in states where there are obvious convention delegate irregularities i.e. AZ, VT, IN, OK, LA, AK, Mo and MA are not with us and never were.

People that are turning on Paul for emailing he would not win the election aren't for Paul and never were. It was a political ploy.

People that attack Rand for endorsing Romney under a political ploy were never with us or not bright enough to be consequential.

robot999's picture

Exactly!

and you will know them by their "age".

"Government is the entertainment division of the military-industrial complex". - Frank Zappa

Amen...

I very much appreciate your two cents and I don't know if you could have represented my feelings any better. Thank you ecard.

De criminalize Liberty!

You do not present the argument correctly....

I respect your post, and I agree with it for the most part, but I don't think you've summed up the reasons some (at least me) don't agree with the lawsuit.

I can only speak for myself and several of the RP people I work with here in the Texas grassroots efforts. And this situation may be exclusive to Texas. If you're not familiar with what happened at the Texas State Convention, you would be well served to read this article: http://texasgopvote.com/knowledge-topics/2012-elections/ron-...

We don't feel the lawsuit is for everyone, especially those who are and have been active within the Texas GOP. Many people have worked very hard and consistently since 2008 and earlier within the party structure and we have seen this pay HUGE dividends in Texas...the 2012 state convention being the main one with the election of former Ron Paul lawyer, Steve Munisteri in 2010 (and 2012) as State Chairman being a strong second example.

To turn around and sue Steve Munisteri is backhanded after all he's done to provide a fair and open Republican Party here in Texas.

Now, if a person legitimately feels threaten or coerced like what happened in other states, they have every right to seek legal recourse. I just don't have confidence in the current case's arguments, nor do I feel inflating the number of plaintiffs is the way to go, even though it's the only current way.

I'd rather the injured parties all file their own specific lawsuits in the local jurisdictions where the violation occurred, and I also see the extreme importance of the time the original complaints were filed. If a person waits until now to sign on to this national lawsuit after never making a local complaint when and where the violation originally happened, I just think that's a hard case to make.

Not only is it a hard case to make since several plaintiffs waited so long to file a complaint and then filed it in the wrong jurisdiction, but for people like me who have actually convinced establishment Republicans to join forces with us to take back our party, the lawsuit actually hurts our efforts.

Many of us in Texas have worked within the party structure and with the Tea Party for several years and the lawsuit is not a good friend maker for the national delegates trying to convince other Santorum and Gingrich delegates to join forces to block Romney. I have witnessed this personally.

I am a grassroots organizer in Central Texas and I will be a the RNC in Tampa as a guest volunteer working directly for the Texas Campaign for Liberty.

Trust me...for Texas Delegates or any other delegates who were NOT affected by obvious foul play (which for the record I'm not denying happened in other States, and even in Texas), I'd steer clear of the lawsuit. For anyone that was personally affected or has direct knowledge or evidence, they should go as far as they need to go with fighting for their rights.

Lastly, straight from the head organizer of the Texas grassroots effort, "...the suit is not needed for anyone to vote for who they want. The suit is not even claiming otherwise, nor is it claiming a history of the national convention not allowing delegates to vote how they want--it's claiming they are already free to vote how they want, with history of doing so, and asking a court to agree and then put armed men on the floor of the convention to enforce that ruling.

The only thing that any delegate needs to consider beyond their own personal preference when casting their vote is the will of and their word to the voters that elected them. That is an important consideration. This lawsuit doesn't add anything to that, instead it adds guns to the convention floor (bad) and is using up resources that could be used to find more actual votes.

I know people want to believe there is a hidden Ron Paul majority, but that really does not appear to be the case. It is certainly not the case in Texas. There does appear to be a possibility of a coalition majority to stop Romney, but that means swaying Santorum and other voters in the delegations who will be turned off by this suit's activity, not attracted by it. I'm not the one to argue to avoid a suit because of political fallout, but that's not the core of the argument here either."

I would just request that people try to understand there are legitimate arguments on both sides of the lawsuit issue.

I will be at the RNC in Tampa working to get past the first ballot, so please do not think I'm not in this to win. Just look at some of my posts.

EDIT: I forgot to add one of the most important reasons to avoid the lawsuit unless you've been violated is that I just have this strong suspicion this is being organized by the powers-that-be to oust Ron Paul delegates that need to be "dealt" with in Tampa.

I'm a serial entrepreneur and liberty activist from Texas!

www.RevolutionCarBadges.com
www.NonNetwork.com

Taking you at your word that nothing dirty or foul

happened in Texas and all was fair, then I can only agree with you when you say that this lawsuit isn't for everyone. I'm humbled nonetheless to hear these things didn't happen everywhere.

But humor me and answer me this; Judging by the GOP's actions throughout the start of these elections, and assuming you know what's happened in several other states regarding foul play, do you honestly believe that more shenanigans won't be taking place between now and the 6 weeks until the convention, and at the convention itself? Let's for a moment pretend that there was never any lawsuit. And let's even go as far as saying that nothing else dirty happened in the coming 6 weeks. And let's say Dr. Paul has the 5 states needed, and let's also say that all the delegates are unbound. With me so far? Now at the convention, both Romney and the GOP do not want to be embarrassed and they don't want any surprises. So they go ahead and change the rules again (Doug Wead warned us about this). So now Dr. Paul regardless of the rules, is NOT allowed to be nominated. Now what? Do we riot? All was for naught so try again in 4 years barring most of those delegates won't be blacklisted simply for being Paul delegates? Remember, Dr. Paul wants us to be respectful, but at the same time not get pushed around.

Do you think this lawsuit, say it fails and binds the delegates (which according to the GOP rules it shouldn't), and thanks to the media giving this lawsuit coverage, even if ALL IT DOES is bring attention and sheds light on the corruption of what's been going on, don't you think it gives us somewhat of an insurance policy on the GOP not wanting the country to see it's true colors? And maybe thanks to all who are watching, they'll HAVE to play fair?

I never said...

I never said nothing dirty or foul happened in Texas. "(which for the record I'm not denying happened in other States, and even in Texas)"

Things happened at the precinct, county, and state senate district level. Nothing too crazy, but I heard some stories. Bottom line though was that we had a completely fair and open state convention, and we made some big changes in the rules for the future.

The powers that be WILL NEVER PLAY FAIR! The only chance we have in my opinion, is to actually change the hearts and minds of the other non-Paul delegates. That's the ONLY way. And I know that from the very people we need to convince, that this lawsuit comes across as, "well, we didn't get our way so we're going to sue". Before you get all crazy, I don't believe that is the intent or drive of the lawsuit, but that is how it is being perceived by the very people we need to convince to join us.

Please read this short book to understand why the powers that be will never play fair: http://www.scribd.com/doc/5987242/Schlafly-A-Choice-Not-an-E...

I'm a serial entrepreneur and liberty activist from Texas!

www.RevolutionCarBadges.com
www.NonNetwork.com

"Things happened at the

"Things happened at the precinct, county, and state senate district level. Nothing too crazy, but I heard some stories. Bottom line though was that we had a completely fair and open state convention, and we made some big changes in the rules for the future."

Well this is politics after all, and that's to be expected, just not at the level that it has escalated to in other states. I think your lucky that you experienced "a completely fair and open state convention", and it's something that SHOULD be expected and NOT considered "lucky".

Well it's a shame that that's how it's being perceived by some. Then I think we have our work cut out for us. Just as people have misunderstood Dr. Paul and his "crazy" policies. I think if the people we need to convince are showed the "evidence" of all the different shenanigans that went on, they'll come around. Remember, they are probably very oblivious to everything that went on and how far down the GOP stooped. I mean, what would they do if they were in our shoes, physically assaulted and robbed after putting so much time in? I just don't think that the right move was to "keep taking it" so to speak when they keep right on doing it to us at the convention where it all boils down. If Dr. Paul is DENIED his chance, then I for one, would like to see the GOP's corruption brought to light and have more people woken up to our "fair and honest elections".

I appreciate the link to the book, and if it has to do with presidents being chosen, I agree. But you left me curious as to your thoughts to my questions in my previous post to you?

My apologies...

I thought I did answer your questions.

I believe what you described will happen...that they will try to change the rules and/or disqualify delegations and/or just plain ignore our objections in an effort to maintain control of the convention (all the tactics are described in the book).

So what to do WHEN they change the rules?

Like I said, the ONLY chance we have is to convince the rest of the delegates to vote with us on rejecting the changed rules and having a fair and open convention. Ultimately, it's up to the delegates what rules they play by. It is in their interest to at least placate us to keep us voting red in November.

I'm a serial entrepreneur and liberty activist from Texas!

www.RevolutionCarBadges.com
www.NonNetwork.com

I see where you're going but,

"Like I said, the ONLY chance we have is to convince the rest of the delegates to vote with us on rejecting the changed rules and having a fair and open convention."

EXACTLY - "ONLY!" Now say that due to the coverage of this lawsuit there's now a spotlight on the convention that wasn't there before, isn't that a way of holding their feet to the fire to do the right thing so to speak?

"Ultimately, it's up to the delegates what rules they play by."

Again, what rules have they played by so far?

"It is in their interest to at least placate us to keep us voting red in November."

Common sense would dictate so, but look at who and what we're dealing with. We're dealing with neo-cons that have blindly refused to open their eyes. They've known all along that they can't win without us. Yet they've continued to disenfranchise us because to them, we simply don't matter.

I do agree with you though that the way is through Hearts & Minds. Although sometimes I do wonder about the minds we're dealing with - lol.

What are you

gonna say when the RNC disqualifies every delegate that was a plaintiff in the lawsuit, which they can and will do, and no court in the entire universe can stop them from doing?
No person litigating against the RNC may participate in the convention.
What are you gonna do then?
The court CANNOT make them seat these delegates who sued them.
Period. The RNC has every right to prevent them from being seated.

As I stated above - it WILL shed light on the corruption

So let me ask you this;

Do you disagree with every other individual/local lawsuit against the GOP as well? What would you do?

I would do what Ron Paul wants to be done with HIS campaign.

I don't care what some shady-looking lawyer wants to do, by rounding up our delegates getting them disqualified.

As for private lawsuits vs individuals that harmed others, I have no problem with that. I have no problem with challenges like the one Steve Dickson is doing in Oklahoma.

We need every single delegate there, voting for our motions at the convention. There is a HELLUVA lot more at stake than some "binding clause" in the presidential nomination vote.

If that were indeed the case

then don't you think Dr. Paul would have at the very least warned the delegates NOT to go that route. I mean considering what's at stake, we're talking some pretty big consequences here. Sorry, but I can't picture the lawsuit being the SOLE REASON for them being disqualified and Dr. Paul not specifically warning us against it.

The official campaign has been

warning people against it! Is that not enough? Do you really need a youtube of Dr. Paul clarifying it? The great majority of delegates have not joined. In one of the Lawyers for Ron Paul teleconferences, someone asked the question; why was his state leader warning against the lawsuit? Gilbert answered that Carl Bunce was just like Jesse Benton, and wanted Ron Paul to lose. Gilbert repeatedly trashed everyone in the campaign and said that Ron Paul "bless his heart" had the weakness of not surrounding himself with good people. If this is the man that you want to be president, surely you don't believe that about him. Listen to the conference call, the L4RP movement is a mutiny.

If you want to stand WITH Ron Paul, and his campaign, then steer clear of the "lawsuit" mutiny.

Frankly, yes I do need to hear it STRAIGHT FROM HIM.

I have my reservations about certain people that work for the campaign. If you don't agree that's fine, but that's MY point of view. I won't get into the discussion of the many instances where I feel the campaign dropped the ball. This is Dr. Paul's campaign, so even though I feel that it could have been handled a lot better, it's not my call, so I'll shut up & just support the man.

However, I WILL give you an example; Today's letter!

I don't believe for ONE SECOND that those are Dr. Paul's words. He simply DOES NOT speak like that. You can say I am in denial and no longer willing to accept reality, or hell call me Mr. conspiracy theorist, but if that letter came from the campaign, it was sent out by somebody that was bought out, because it sure as hell did not come from Dr. Paul's mouth. Either that, or as I have suspected, there was/are an infiltrator.

Someone else here, I forget who & where, also posted that he expects the Romney campaign to start offering Paul delegates payment of their school loans, debts, jobs, etc. Call us paranoid, but I agree.

Lastly, there was another poster here that mentioned that this email came through "Eventbrite", who are coordinating the ticket reservations for his rally in Tampa. I also find it very coincidental/convenient that there was a special tab for delegates only, and now a few days later, ONLY delegates get this email.

Sorry if I derailed somewhat, but the point I'm trying to make is that until I clearly, not vaguely, hear it directly from Dr. Paul, I'll judge what I think is in his/and this movement's best interest.

PS. Ron Paul is human and makes mistakes. I've said it before, the man's heart is so damn pure that he fails to see the bad in others. I think his blind trust in some of his campaign personnel has hindered his run for presidency. Maybe I'm wrong here, but I really hope that he gets wind of this email and finally starts cracking down on some of his workers. Only time will tell within the next few days.

My Guess,

if it is an inside infiltrator, he won't call them out publicly, but will probably issue some sort of cryptic response. I say cryptic because he is, IMO, 100% in stealth mode. His innocence in no way makes him blind. He has seen every trick in the book and is no kindly old fool. You sort of have to be paranoid in politics, I'm always second-guessing too. I reserve judgement on the email because it seems that many of the delegates, who should be on "the list" apparently didn't recieve said email.

Agreed that he's in stealth mode

and I suspect that the ONLY delegates that did receive it were the ones that reserved tickets through Eventbrite.

robot999's picture

Except for

one small detail. An injunction from the Judge could unbind the delegates (and I don't buy this line from the GOP that they are already unbound - BS!).

Unbinding the delegates could lead to a miracle upset by Ron Paul over Romney. (Likely no, possible yes)

Therefore, I will FIGHT until the end for what I came to do - see Ron Paul as POTUS.

I respect you opinion, and your decision, but I'm tired of so many people giving up before the game is over.

This is the r3VOLution, we're Fighters, we don't give up before the game is over...do we?

UPdate to your EDIT: If you think that TPTB don't already KNOW who the RP delegates are, then I'm going to have a hard time believing what you have to say. That sir, is quite naive to think that they don't know who our people are. This argument is not one of the "most important" as you state, IMO it is one of the weakest arguments out there.

"Government is the entertainment division of the military-industrial complex". - Frank Zappa

Uh...

The delegates do not face any legal ramifications for voting their conscience and history has shown delegates are free to vote their mind, agree with me or not, this is true.

Now, it is true, the real question is whether or not the delegation leaders, like Rick Perry in Texas's case, will poll their delegation and report the actual votes instead of the proportioned popular vote percentages or even if he will decide to throw all Texas's 155 votes to Romney (which would be a clear violation of the Rule 38, the Unit Rule regarding block voting). If any delegate objects however to the vote that is reported by the delegation leaders, the state delegation leader according to RNC rule #37b MUST poll the delegation and report the numbers accurately.

RNC Rule 37b:

(b) In the balloting, the vote of each state shall be announced by the chairman of such state’s delegation, or his or her designee; and in case the vote of any state shall be divided, the chairman shall announce the number of votes for each candidate, or for or against any proposition; but if exception is taken by any delegate from that state to the correctness of such announcement by the chairman of that delegation, the chairman of the convention shall direct the roll of members of such delegation to be called, and the result shall be recorded in accordance with the vote of the several delegates in such delegation.

The issue here though as I mentioned, is will Rick Perry (and other state delegation leaders) and/or the convention chairmen recognize our objections or just turn off the microphones and ignore us.

Also, I take great offense you to implying that I've given up! Who's giving up? I don't have to support a bad lawsuit to support RP.

If you think TPTB know everything you're too paranoid. Although, if they don't know you, you're not doing enough for Liberty. But I know first hand that several of our delegates do not want to be associated with us, because they are that stealth and involved within the party. There are no doubt stealth delegates, although I rejected the stealth idea from the beginning.

I'm a serial entrepreneur and liberty activist from Texas!

www.RevolutionCarBadges.com
www.NonNetwork.com

One thing though,

"history has shown delegates are free to vote their mind, agree with me or not, this is true."

That may be true, but we've never had a "Ron Paul" that has so closely threatened TPTB before. Why else has this been the most corrupt election ever?

You'll like....

You'll like this book!

http://www.scribd.com/doc/5987242/Schlafly-A-Choice-Not-an-E...

I'm a serial entrepreneur and liberty activist from Texas!

www.RevolutionCarBadges.com
www.NonNetwork.com