-2 votes

Defining the 2-Prong Strategy

Many people feel like there are mandatory choices that have to be made, a choice of sides. This is not true.

There are two big strategies at play.

1. Infiltrate and change the Republican Party.

2. Beat it from the outside, humble it, weaken it.

These are NOT at odds with each other.

1. Just because you are in the Republican Party does NOT mean you have to vote Republican. That's a personal choice.

2. If Romney wins in 2012, it will vindicate the Neo-Cons and diminish the liberty movement. That's a fact, even with more and more power being attained, so it will set it back.

3. If Romney loses in 2012, it will be "self-examination" time. And that's where liberty people suddenly get to voice a better strategy.

4. Gary johnson takes 4:1 from Romney over Obama. If he even makes the difference in even one or two states, Romney is toast, regardless. Romney is probably toast anyway.

5. Yes, Obama is bad for another 4 years, but is that worse than Romney for 4, let alone 8? I doubt it. Obama will be a lame duck, won't be able to do much, his opposition is entrenched, spending will decrease, legislation will decrease. If Romney wins, then there is a neo-con "mandate", which means big government, big military, saber rattling, the opposite of what we want.

So, what's to be done? Do the Ron Paul strategy. Infiltrate, persuade, flip, whatever. Heck, try to pull off a Tampa miracle, why not? BUT, in the end, look at the real choices on the ballot. If it's Ron Paul, ABSOLUTELY. And Gary Johnson will do NOTHING but help grow Ron Paul by supporting his policies and acting as an attack dog. We saw this in the primaries. Johnson didn't attract support to him, he attracted it to Ron Paul, the elder spokesman.

But if Ron Paul isn't, look, you can vote for Obama, you can vote for Romney, you can waste you vote with a protest write in which won't see the light of day OR, you can vote AGAINST both of them in a way that helps the liberty movement, shuts down the Neo-cons once and for all and opens up 2016 for a liberty candidate with a no incumbent playing field. Could be Rand Paul, could be Gary Johnson, could be someone we don't even know yet. But we would have 2016. And guess what, there's still a good chance, if Gary gets into the debates, that he pulls the middle right out from under these clowns, imploding the 2-party system. Maybe that's a long shot, but I'll hang my had on that long shot before I believe that Republicrats will let Ron Paul be their nominee.

We have to damage the Republican Party from the outside by taking their votes so that they are pliable enough to accept the liberty movement inside their ranks as the pimary driver of the Party Platform.

If you say "why bother us with this NOW, Ron Paul isn't officially out of the race". Okay, fair enough, but obviously, Republicrats are going to do everything they can to make sure he is. So what are you going to do about it? Just accept it? Or take a "baseball bat" with you? Voting against the Republican Party as a Party member, "the base", is the ultimate baseball bat. If they think you will vote Republican, they own you. If they think you will jump ship, you own them. The Granger is already running around trying to convince everyone that Republicans are "oath bound" to vote for Romney. BS. Going to the convention without a back up plan is like sailing the Titanic through an ice field with not enough lifeboats. Good back up plans are plans, not reactions!

We are ALL on the same side and always have been. We are the same pool. You can't pee on my side of the pool or vice versa. We have to support the whole. This isn't about men. This is about the movement. If you are obsessed with Ron Paul winning at Tampa and can accept no other outcome, you've made it about the man, not the mvoement.

Voting for Gary johnson (if Ron isn't nominated) HELPS the Ron Paul strategy, big time. In every way.

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If Ron Paul Doesn't Get In:

It will be "Every Man For Himself".

If GJ would abdicate at the PROPER Moment and the LP would make RON PAUL the NEW LIBERTARIAN CANDIDATE for POTUS?

Now THAT is a plan!

Imagine...a "Dark Horse" LP Candidate: RON PAUL.

"Beyond the blackened skyline, beyond the smoky rain, dreams never turned to ashes up until.........
...Everything CHANGED !!

As I mentioned in another

As I mentioned in another post, I think Gary would have done so under different circumstances.

I don't think he would let down his supporters in that way, he's got a high degree of integrity. He MIGHT throw his support to Paul if Paul were to enter as an independent, but I don't think he would quit. And he might do this because while he'd like to win in 2012, he knows the odds are stacked against him, so he's simultaenously laying the ground for 2016 (yet another 2-prong strategy).

Since Ron has always insisted he won't run as a third party and it would be REALLY late to switch, the more honorable thing and practical thing to do would be for him to openly support Gary's bid.

But I don't expect that since he is more worried about his son's 2016 run than his own at this point, let alone Gary's. And I don't think he wants Gary building a base that could prevent Rand from winning in 2016.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

Sound planning

I couldn't agree more.

Okay, I'm bumping this. For

Okay, I'm bumping this.

For one thing, the GOP is patronizing the liberty movement at this point and it's annoying.

For another, polls show that Gary or Ron get between 5 and 13% in a 3-way run, so there's at LEAST a reasonable amount of support for a 3rd party effort.

Obviously Ron won't take part because he just isn't interested, though it would be nice if he said "Screw this, I'm going independent" like Lieberman successfully did.

Interestingly the last polls have shown that Democrats are increasingly intersted in 3rd party liberty candidates. Ron Paul pulls more from Democrats than Republicans and Johnson't last New Mexico poll puls 7 points from Obama, 6 from Romney. Earlier polls showed more pull from Romney, by as much as 3:1 or even 4:1.

And when the GOP is out there saying "don't give up on us!!!" what they really mean is "we're not going to change, but we want your support anyway". Same thing an abusive boyfriend says.

Yes, you can still do everything you can to take over the GOP but until that happens, for the love of God and Liberty, don't let them win.

Four more years of Obama with divide government beats the crap out of 8 years of Republican rule as we now well know - "Don't cut the military, because $900B just ISN'T enough!!!" It wasn't that long ago when the military has an enormous $300B budget.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"