-33 votes

Mental Health & Guns-Which comes first?

Gun owners appear to approve death from gun violence over gun rights. The deaths are being used to ban guns and remove 2nd amendment rights.

Let me explain.

IF gun owners want gun rights, THEN gun owners must stand for appropriate, effective mental health care because otherwise mentally ill people will have guns and be committing murders. They do and are every day.

This logic IS an absolute.

From what I've seen, gun owners do not support effective mental health care. In fact, they will not even discuss the issue. They do not appear to care. This is illogical.

Now . . . all of that may be appearances created by cognitive infiltration of 2nd amendment activist groups.

Along the same line of logic we have this second amendment forum which does not appear to recognize that the first right of Americans is that congress call an Article V convention.

Which is it? Do any gun rights advocates understand this issue or are those in this forum pretenders that refuse logic?

If you accept this logic and support the concept that effective mental health care protects gun rights because it prevents murders or any reason for government to limit 2nd amendment rights, you must post and ask what mental health care providers can do to improve mental health care in order to demonstrate your sincerity.

Then, if such mental health care measures are shown to be reasonable, you must become an advocate for the best mental health care.

If you do not accept this logic then you cannot effectively defend 2nd amendment rights because you are not logical or accountable to your position in support of 2nd amendment rights.

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No screening-No checkup, pretending I say that by a group

is a conspiracy.

What resembalence of free speech that might exist, is confused and diminished by a false group acting covertly with a common agenda.

Can we stop doing all the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?



If you would have mental health

checking for gun owners, should you not have mental health checking for people who decide to go to war. Clearly more people die then?

In wars 100 000´s die if not millions.

Perhaps that mental health checking could be well let us see..

The constitution...

Another that chooses to misrepresent

and pretend that I advocate mental health checks before buying guns.

I do not.

I advocate that EFFECTIVE mental health care be made available.

That agenda of the false group is to falsely make it appear that I do advocate screening in order to cognitively foul the publics understanding of this vital aspect of protecting gun rights.

I do not.

Can we stop doing all the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?

Why are posters unable to recognize-no screening?

I do not advocate screening but all posters uniformly assume I do not matter what I write.

What is up with this?

No posters think that effective mental health care is a good idea to protect gun rights.

What is up with this? Where did this unreasonable uniformity come from? Notice, no accountability to the screening issue and effectiveness issue.

Can we stop doing all the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?

What the heck are you even asking?

Are you asking if we believe that effective mental healthcare should be available? The wording of your post is confusing, and that's why a lot of folks think you're suggesting screening.

Please clarify your post - I'm not going to lie, you have an odd writing style, which can throw people off.

Mental Health & Guns-Which comes first?

Simple question.

The complexity is found in addressing what is effective. I say its not, facts support me.

Which comes first?

If you have your gun and others are homicidal is that okay, or would you prefer they also have effective mental health available while you keep the gun?

Can we stop doing all the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?

If I understand you correctly...

...you seem to be asking which is more important to have, effective mental health care or gun rights. It appears that you're creating a false dilemma, as the two don't oppose each other in any way. One does not come at the expense of the other.

Mass Murders Are Used to Diminish Gun Rights

Those opposing gun rights use mass murders caused by mental problems as justification for diminishment of 2nd amendment rights.

A society that has granted gun rights will have to be prepared to kill one another IF effective mental health care is not developed when guns are used to commit mass murders by people with mental problems. Or guns will have to be removed from the society.

I cannot believe I had to explain that. Haven't you learned anything from Ron Paul?

Can we stop doing all the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?

Okay, I get it. I think.

You really need to be more clear - it honestly sounded like you were advocating screening.

I think the majority of gun owners are prepared to kill another person if said person is an immediate threat. The fact is, though, since we don't have effective mental health care, the best thing to do is to be armed at all times, because a crazy person very well might decide to go on a killing spree WITHOUT a gun, if guns are banned. You seem like a smart, if rather confusing, person, so I'm sure you know what a psycho with a knife or machete can do.

Does that answer your question, or were you asking something else entirely? No offense intended, but is English a second language for you?

But with that logic,

Shouldn't we give mental health screenings to all public teachers? I mean, they are around hundreds (and sometimes thousands) of students for 9 months a year. And hey, hormonal teenagers can really make one stressed. Also, everyone should have mental health screening who apply for their drivers license. Driving is after all very dangerous, and a lot of times deadly. Any wacko can do very bad things with a car, perhaps we should even consider "car restriction laws," where you lose your license and your car if you A) have ever been ordered to undergo a mental health evaluation, B) If you have ever had a law enforcement altercation (with or without charges brought against you,) your license and car shall be seized until you have proved your innocense (if no charges, you will get your property back when we have the time to give them back, ie 6 months to 10 years.) YOU SEE, THAT IS SOME SILLY LOGIC!
Of course those who are mentally ill should not possess a fire arm, but then again, they shouldn’t be driving either. How can you honestly say a mentally ill person should not have a gun, but they can drive a motor vehicle that is capable of being used as a deadly weapon? It’s a slippery slope, and once we fall down it as a nation, it is an extremely fast, but painful slide. The 20th century is proof of that!

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” – Dresden James

Use of "mental health screenings" exposes infiltration

It is a cognitive distortion. A label that presumes that mental health care is effective in any way.

It is not. Many lives are being lost but . . . that is not mentioned by those opposing the concept that we need effective mental health care.

Another cognitive distortion is applied, minimizing by presenting the assumption that I advocate ANY requisite at all for gun ownership.

I advocate none, and no controls over what type of weapons also. But I make that conditional on this society AT LEAST having and being able to apply effective mental health care.

That is it. Having the simple capacity to effectively care for the mental health of a human beings.

So far I can only say there is one real American here in this thread besides me and he's kinda funny, but he's got the point.

Can we stop doing all the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?


while I don't agree (because it would be abused) with you nor am I a good debater. How about why don't we give mental health screening to each and everyone that is joining the military to go overseas and kill innocent men, women and babies or maybe go so far as mental health screening for all of our Pres. and congress before they can run a second term.

All posters assume mental health care now is effective

and it is not.

If it was casualties and suicides in the middle east would not be equal amongst American forces there.

Our soldiers get the best right?

If not why?


Would that same care not be offered to the public ready to commit murder and suicide?

Can we stop doing all the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?


never assumed mental health care is effective. Just the opposite if you ask me. From the looks of the amount of people (including babies) that they are putting on mind altering drugs when normal diet or other things could make our minds healthy would work much better with none of the side effects that big pharma pills have.

In your last post you assumed I advocate screening

I do not advocate psychological screening to limit gun rights.

You've evaded answering the question and instead advocate natural diet rather than recognizing that this society needs effective mental health care IF it is going to retain its 2nd amendment rights.

Can we stop doing all the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?

A free market solution to

A free market solution to what you are suggesting is this : -

Gun shop owners can demand a psychiatric evaluation before selling to someone.

Doctors can do this for a certain sum of money.

They will not simply hand out clean sheets as they may suffer a damaged reputation if that gun owner does something untoward which may lead to him being blacklisted as untrustworthy by the rifle shop owners.

Even the most staunch gun rights activists should be aware that just handing out assault rifles to anyone with a bit of money is not entirely free of risk.

The reason I don't see this happening is because it does not benefit the gun shop owner in any monetary terms. Owning a gun becomes a little more expensive and a title more tedious leading to reduced sales.

Hope this answers your question to some degree. I won't get into the issue of govt. regulation or this post will disappear :-p

All posters opposing fail to recognize "effective"

And this exposes you, one way or the other.

Effective mental health care is generally not available, period.

Any society attempting to refer to itself as competent MUST have effective mental health care, period.

All posters avoid the issue, "Why don't we have effective mental health care?".

Can we stop doing all the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?

Why don't we have jetpacks?

Why don't we have jetpacks?

Why don't we have robots doing all our work?

Why can't I play polo on the moon?

Because the science is not developed enough and because the world is not perfect.

Americans are not developed enough to demand justice

when it comes to medical care. Here is a scan of a 1999 letter from the Ph.D director of the Santa Barbara County mental health department. This is basically a defacto approval of an alternative treatment for mental health care.


The above letter promises an answer in writing relating to the answer of the state department of mental health. After such was no available I used the freedom of information act on the supervisor of the hospital district. Ignored-a violation of federal law.


This graphic shows the relationship to the human unconscious mind to the conscious mind. Anger and aggression are of the unconscious but psychology has NO TREATMENT direct to the unconscious.


With effective mental health care people are going to have an option to deal with the internal demons, voices whatever in their heads. It will stop the mass murders.

Can we stop doing all the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?

We know the unconscious mind controls us

Fear and anger fuel mass murder.

Fear and anger are of the unconscious.

The church is afraid we won't believe if we work with the unconscious.

Science and medicine has ways of communicating with the unconscious mind.

I guess you would rather Americans give up their gun rights.

Can we stop doing all the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?

Oh. I was going to say

Oh. I was going to say "government".

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

the mentally unfit

Should also not be allowed to be greeters at walmart and cleaning crew at McDonald's. I am so sick of having to see them when I go shopping. I'll even go so far as to say there should be screenings at birth and any child who is mentally deficient or physically disabled should be aborted retroactively.

[Yes, this was sarcasm]

Socially adept, sophisticated people

can fake cognitive distortions and convert them to humor just to avoid being too different.

Thanks! Good post.

Can we stop doing all the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?

We already have gulags and they are profitable for the state

Mental health issues are being used to remove gun rights. The state violates laws and civil rights in order to deny effective mental health care as it serve the interests of church.

Psychologists are afraid to administer directly to the unconscious mind and the state would lose money if they did.

Can we stop doing all the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?

Gun Owners-Understand Cognitive Distortions-critical thinking

Understand cognitive distortions and critical thinking or LOSE your gun rights.

Cognitive distortions were discovered and named by psychologists to be used in the 1980's for cognitive therapy. I learned of them by 1994.

Here is a list of them. The therapist in therapy find the individual conducting thoughts with these assumptions, then apply therapy by making the patient aware of the distortion and its effect.


1. All or nothing thinking: Things are placed in black or white categories. If things are less than perfect self is viewed as failure.
2. Over generalization: Single event is viewed as continuous failure.
3. Mental filter: Details in life (positive or negative) are amplified in importance while opposite is rejected.
4. Minimizing: Perceiving one or opposite experiences (positive or negative) as absolute and maintaining singularity of belief to one or the other.
5. Mind reading: One absolutely concludes that others are reacting positively or negatively without investigating reality.
6. Fortune Telling: Based on previous 5 distortions, anticipation of negative or positive outcome of situations is established
7. Catastrophizing: Exaggerated importance of self's failures and others successes.
8. Emotional reasoning: One feels as though emotional state IS reality of situation.
9. "Should" statements: Self imposed rules about behavior creating guilt at self inability to adhere and anger at others in their inability to conform to self's rules.
10. Labeling: Instead of understanding errors over generalization is applied.
11. Personalization: Thinking that the actions or statements of others are a reaction to you.
12. Entitlement: Believing that you deserve things you have not earned.

All of the opposing posts here distort first by assuming I'm saying something I'm not, which is a variation of 10, 1, 3 and 4.

The infiltrations use of cognitive distortions exploits the fact that social acceptance of such distortions usually compels compliance with the falsely exhibited notion of generalizing as being something that is competent. It is not.

Such is useless for critical thinking and even trying to use them has the effect of cognitively interrupting any group effort to reason because the people of the group have not been informed of efforts to infiltrate and the infiltration is covert.

Critical thinking is required to retain rights and freedoms.

Can we stop doing all the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?

Wow! You are so full of

shyt that I can smell you all the way over here. Mental health screenings before you can own a firearm. Then you can just kiss the right to bear arms goodby. What about baking soda and vinegar. How about fireworks on the 4th.

You are a sniveling little pinko weasel and you are advocating the very thing that I've been screaming that is coming with your Obamacare atrocity. Why don't you go stick your head up Obama's asss where it came from.

I never said "Mental health screenings"

and that is what the cognitive infiltrators would want people to think I said.

The question is one of ideals, simple logic.

"Mental Health & Guns-Which comes first?"

People do not want to be mentally ill. IF effective mental health care was available THEN they would get treated. Effective mental health care IS NOT available so they don't even bother, they just start killing and compromising gun rights. Creating a reason for the infiltrators of the US government to take citizens guns.

By your evasion and distortion of the issue you advocate an end to 2nd amendment rights.

Can we stop doing all the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?

Or maybe

before you can buy a tank of gas. Or before you can buy an automobile. Or before you can have a baby.

What kind of mental health screening do you think the murderers who killed the Branch Davidians had? Or the sniper who murdered Randy Weavers unarmed wife while she held their infant child? How many of our presidents had to pass a mental health test before they started sending our kids to kill the "bad people".

Boy your post is rife with ignorance and liberal brainwashed thinking. I can't down vote you enough. You and your Nazi style mentality can GO.