-7 votes

Losing delegates

In my state, we lost another delegate.

We won 6 delegate spots, but now we only have 4. One got mad at "politics" and just quit, the other made it very clear he was not going to vote for Mitt Romney under any circumstances (he was planning on abstaining), and our State coordinator, Monica Serrano, still supported him on our slates, who didn't really screen us delegates at all (she even picked me--what was SHE thinking?)

After the election, she suddenly decided that we all *MUST* vote for Mitt Romney, and pressured him to sign pledges do so. He resigned to avoid having to vote for Mitt Romney (Our state RP coordinator lead him to believe this to be true).

We have a problem of people passionately joining, getting the support of the people in this movement to take key positions, and then dropping out, and this is proving to be very harmful to our cause.

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Sellouts and shills abound!

Sellouts and shills abound!

Zach, here you go my friend

EMBARRASSED? Not at all. The only thing that is embarrassing is YOU and your ASSUMPTIONS towards me, my thoughts, conversations and my actions . I was not aware that you consider yourself to be so privileged. Zach you are nothing more than a grain of sand in the vast desert of the movement. Everything that comes from you is Half Truths, Assumptions, Lies and Contradictions. You speak out of both sides, this it is very disheartening. You may be under the assumption that you are someone in the movement here, in your own delusional way, in reality the majority of everyone looks at you as nothing more than a RP supporter that has caused distention, in fighting, drama and condemnation to the party. All you want to do is to accuse everyone of mistakes and play the blame game in order to gain attention.

Example from one of you post.

Submitted by Westfall on Mon, 06/18/2012 - 05:35. Permalink

You people are going about this all wrong. Delegates are motivated by their own political future. Voting from against the candidate they are bound for would make them political pariahs.

If you want to convert them, you are going to need to convince them that we are the future of the party, and if they vote for a war-mongering big spender, we will come after them on the local level with everything that we have. We will run liberty candidates against them, and if they win the primary, we will cross party and vote for the democrat. Why?

Because fuck Republicans that support war and big government, that's why. Let's get lists of all the delegates, and if they support Romney, let's end their political career.

Now is not the time for half-measures.

In your above statement you are proposing doing what you have accused and continue to accuse Monica of doing to you, please note I did not alter your post, but put it out in its entirety. I wonder if you can see and understand the difference between telling only half true’s on a public forum

for the world to see? You are hurting the future of the movement, do you not think that the GOP here not only reads but finds information from the things you post on-line? You Zack and your post are what makes the GOP laugh at us. Your naivety a couple of weeks ago that no knew who you where on-line speaks volumes about your character and more importantly hurts everyone in our moment that is trying to look forward to the future and plan accordingly all you seem to be interested in is looking backwards and blaming people.

As far as looking like an UTTER BOOB you have that position squarely locked down without anyone’s help as noted from the example above. I found that the email you sent was very informative, yet it is beside the point of what your true intention of the post was meant to be, again half truth’s that you post here. You are nothing more than a waste of time, especially mine, You have shown your immaturity in trying to make this personal it is time for you to grow up and see reality. I never had a problem with you personally, but now you have chosen to go down that road. Which is unfortunate. I am sure you will come back and attack and call names to try and have the last word, this will only reinforce my points in this post to your true character.

It is such a shame that someone who could be such a huge asset to the cause, has turned out to be such a Drama Queen and in your own words "Douchebag". I am sure you feel big and powerful as you spout all the BS regarding people from behind your computer. It is a well known fact that you “ Zach” is the one who talks behind every ones back. Trust me when I say everyone knows who said what about whom and who of us have made contribution to the movement and who has not. Also realize that you have probably offended every female that has had the misfortune of reading your post along with my personal observations and other things you have posted you have made it clear that you do not respect persons of the opposite sex.

This will be the end of my posting in regards to you and the bile you spread and to the levels you will take it. I don’t have the time to play your childish games from behind the computer, my time is far too valuable. I never intended to make anything personal but you have chosen to make it that. So go ahead, continue to show everyone what a fraud you are. Good luck, I look forward to seeing you at the convention.

So regarding our delegate

So regarding our delegate situation...

I was right and you were wrong?

That's all I needed to hear. Thanks so much :-)

This whole thread tripped me the F**K out ;S

But I hope GJ supporters smarten up and storm the brigades along with us liberty lovers at Tampa! Unify and bring Big Signs!

Oath of Freedom
for the True north, strong & free!

sharkhearted's picture

Why is this getting down-voted?

Must be romney-trolls and their psy-ops bulls---.

Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

I'm sorry

It's interesting to me because in CA, Romney won the primary, so his delegates are going to Tampa, but suddenly, Ron Paul Republicans are showing up to my central committee meetings, and while we don't have the majority, if we all show, we will have the majority if the others don't show, as they usually don't.

The other thing I noticed is we are all younger than the neocns seated, and I think this is very exciting, as they are looking to "retire", and we are looking ahead to the future.

We are the future.

This only works if we

This only works if we organize and get the Ron Paul republicans to keep showing up. There will be defeats where the neocons organize and flood the committee with numbers, but we must not let this discourage our members. We need to get people to commit to the long game, and put an end this joining, then fading away nonsense or it will cripple us.

Another thing is

We actually like each other, so we want to show up. There is an excitment. It's like I can't wait for my next meeting KNOWING, my true friends are going to be there.

Since we are from all over the county, It's like looking forward to doing Republicans things... much better than meet-uo. It's like Meet-up all grown up. ;))

Always know,

You can

And they have the right to unseat you for it.

Both you and Monica Serrano

must sign on to the Federal Ron Paul Delegates Lawsuit filed in the 9th Circuit in California. Please please please do yourselves and our country a favor and become plaintiffs today!
Dr. Gilbert, the attorney fighting for our lives, has recently led a stealth battalion of Vietnamese Ron Paul supporters into the DHS Fusion Centers and uploaded some spyware so that he can see what they're doing. He found files on the plans to imprison 10,000,000 Americans in Internment Camps and they seem to be up to no good.
Dr. Gilbert is conferring on what to do next with Governor Gary Johnson's Attorney and with Rep. Dan Gordon (R) from the Rhode Island State legislature. I think he arranged for GJ to be the featured speaker at Ron Paul's Rally in Tampa!
Stay tuned!

Oh, and if you join the lawsuit to unbind the delegates, then Monica won't be forced to vote for Crime Boss Romney. Once Dr. Gilbert finishes his ground-breaking YouTube video, we are going to show it at the RNC to every single Romney Delegate so they will finally know the TRUTH!

Doctor Gilbert "May Have" Done It!

On the good doctor's twitter account:
"USA_Patriot_Press ‏@USA_Free_Press

Just finished a good conference with Gov Gary Johson's Legal Team. Wide Discussions included many possibilities"

I have heard that Doctor Gilbert has "brokered" the abdication of Gary Johnson of his "presumed candidacy" and that he may step down and relinquish the Third Party POTUS Nomination to RON PAUL.

How many GJ Supporters will support this?
Time is of the essence..Contact L4RP and tell them you support this!

Thank You Doctor Gilbert!

"Beyond the blackened skyline, beyond the smoky rain, dreams never turned to ashes up until.........
...Everything CHANGED !!

This is nonsense, wishful thinking. It is not up to Johnson.

Yes, he can "rescind" his acceptance of the nomination. But this is largely symbolic.

Ballot access in some states has already been completed. Surrogate or "stand-in" candidates in some of these is not allowed. Thus, Johnson's Electors cannot be replaced with Paul's Electors. Even if the Electors themselves stay the same, their pledge must remain to vote for Johnson should they win the State.

Then there is the not so small problem that Johnson was nominated by official process of the LP. There is no provision that I am aware of to replace Johnson should he "step down." Especially since it would be voluntary, and not because of the death of the candidate (which I believe there is a provision for) the membership, or at least significant factions of it, may demand that the official process be adhered to.

Will the LP have to hold an emergency convention?

Can a second convention be legally recognized?

Will individual States give a damn and just put Johnson on the ballot anyway?

Will the LP have to sue in those States to replace all references to Johnson with references to Paul?

Even if every State played nice with the LP, which we already know they won't (and we already have our usual suspects) AND there were no in-fighting issues about "process" AND Dr. Paul ACCEPTED the nomination and AGREED to run a full campaign - AND he managed to get into the debates and raise enough money to buy ads and make his campaign stops, at best, most likely, you'd have a case where voters would have to vote for "Johnson Electors" with the understanding that this was really a vote for "Paul Electors" or as the more simple minded think "a vote for Johnson is really a vote for Paul."

That may work here and there for the base. It won't work and people will be confused to enough of an extent that it won't be possible for Paul to WIN the White House.

And then, technically, you'd have Johnson Electors (officially) who may "win" a State because the voters are of the understanding those Electors will cast a vote for Paul, and then having the Congress challenge those Electoral votes because they weren't cast as pledged. You may have States refusing to certify the LP Electors in some cases because of this, or refusing to certify their Electoral votes. You could have State Legislatures appointing a separate slate of their own choosing - which is guaranteed to be R or D based on who controls that chamber.

You'd guarantee there would be no Electoral Vote majority for President, which sends the election to the House, which is controlled by Republicans. Romney would then be President.

And all of this would be a hoopla and media circus mess, that would all be blamed on Ron Paul and the LP.

Most likely, it would be the death of the Electoral College and next thing we know - we're stuck with National Popular Vote Tyrannical Hell.

So, since getting into the debates is an impossibility, raising 500 million or more even less possible, and the legal chaos that would ensue, I'd say this idea of Johnson stepping down and Paul taking the LP slot on the ballot is a colossally stupid one –at best.

the death of the Electoral College

"Most likely, it would be the death of the Electoral College and next thing we know - we're stuck with National Popular Vote Tyrannical Hell".

YES! The Electoral College..A Popular Vote!
Did not Hillary Clinton suggest this years ago?
After the "Fraud Election" did not voters question the EC's validity.

L4RP is working to FREE the Delegates that are BOUND.
When Doctor Gilbert SUCCEEDS it will pave the way for a RP Libertarian Victory!
This is pure GENIUS!
Thank you Doctor Gilbert!
Libertarians JOIN the Lawsuit!

"Beyond the blackened skyline, beyond the smoky rain, dreams never turned to ashes up until.........
...Everything CHANGED !!

You are confusing Delegates with Electors.

They are not the same thing.

The last thing we need is to get rid of the EC. If that happens we will have nothing but Democrat presidents from here to eternity. If you think it's bad now, wait... destroying the EC is a recipe for communism.

Holy smokes!!! This is HUGE!!!

Danton, do you realize what this means?!
If the Governor is “abdicating”, Dr. Gilbert is probably negotiating right now to see to it that all of his delegates to the RNC go to Ron Paul!
Hells Yeah!
Doctors Gilbert/Paul are exactly the physicians we need to surgically heal this nation!
This ain't over by a long-shot!

What are you talking about?

"Johnson" has no delegates to the RNC. At least that's how your comment appears.

Please specify who you meant with the pronoun "his" in this sentence of yours:

If the Governor is "abdicating", Dr. Gilbert is probably negotiating right now to see to it that all of his delegates to the RNC go to Ron Paul!

Excellent question, samadamscw

So, if I am understanding you perfectly, you want clarification regarding my usage of the pronoun, his.
Don't worry, this pronoun commonly elicits confusion.
We say “her delegates” and “the delegates are hers,” but “his delegates” and “the delegates are his.”
So, samadamscw, you are asking why does “her” become “hers” while “his” doesn’t change?
The answer to your question looks back into the mist-shrouded past, through many many centuries into the history of English pronouns.
As you know, “her” can be an object pronoun, as in “Give the delegates to her.”
But “her” can also be used in a possessive sense, either with or without 's' at the end.
The possessive pronouns “her” and “hers” are used as different parts of speech.
The possessive “her” (as in “her delegates”) is an adjective. But “hers” (as in “that delegate is hers”) is what’s called an absolute pronoun.
Unlike “her,” the absolute pronoun “hers” doesn’t modify anything. Instead, “hers” stands for something: the thing or things belonging to her.
While it may seem unusual that the feminine forms of these words (“her”/“hers”) are different, this is not really the case. What’s odd here, as you’ll see, is that the masculine forms (“his”/“his”) are identical.
In Old English, which was spoken until about the 12th century, the possessive adjective “her” was written as hyre or hire.
The absolute form (“hers”), which the OED says is “used when no noun follows,” evolved later, in the 14th century. 
During the Middle English period (12th-16th centuries), “hers” was spelled hirs, hires, hyres, and even her’s, with an apostrophe to indicate possession.
The modern spelling “hers” showed up in the 16th century.
Why the final 's'?
Because “hers,” according to the Oxford English Dictionary, is “in form, a double possessive.” (A double possessive is a phrase that uses both “of” and an apostrophe plus s to show possession.)
The pronoun “hers” apparently came about, the OED says, “by association with the possessive case in such phrases as ‘a friend of Gilbert’s.’ ” 
But “hers” isn’t unusual in having a final s that makes it resemble a double possessive.
Several other absolute pronouns evolved in similar fashion and at times have also been spelled with apostrophes (“their’s,” “our’s,” “your’s”).
Since the possessive adjective “his” already ended in 's', attempts over the centuries to add another 's' didn’t stick.
This is why, the OED says, “the absolute his … remains identical in form with the simple or adjective possessive.” 
The same thing happened with the possessive pronoun “its,” which also ends in s.
“The more recent its, also ending in 's', has followed the example of his,” says the OED.
Thus we depend on the context of a sentence to determine whether the “his” or “its” we’re reading is an adjective or an absolute pronoun.
A “his” or an “its” that modifies a noun (as in “his delegates” or “its delegate”), is a possessive adjective.
Otherwise (as in “the delegate is his” or “the Convention is its”), you have an absolute pronoun.
Hopefully, that helps.

I Figured It Out

..I've been following one candidate's campaign trail like this:


I did not know that in addition to Mr.Stone (chief strategist/actually only strategist) *our only* second choice has a chief media handler (only media handler)...tada: Mr Chris Barron who to say the least has a very colorful past and present. (Was quoted as supporting soldiers peeing on Muslims among other things). Strange choice I thought.

Now I get it...all who will sign on to L4 and GJ...are being promised their own detention camp when the shtf. They can be together ...marry and smoke lotsa pot. Those are the two issues most critical to the survival of the country aren't they? Go Liberty!


And Figured MORE Out

...it may still be on the table and NOT a done deal; however,

(do click on the links)

...in that *special* detention camp, pagan rituals will possibly be allowed and maybe even encouraged as GJ found them "spiritual." Participants will also be protected from overly much "God Talk" as that constitutes "hate talk" and is found offensive by many. GJ, in providing biographical material has offered that he has not stepped foot in a church since his Lutheran confirmation and does *not* *has not* *will not* talk to God.

Too much info is sometimes not a good thing.


fonta, has anyone ever told

fonta, has anyone ever told you that you are a bit of an intellectual contortionist?
; )

Sadly...Not The *Intellectual* Part

...however, many years ago I was a competitive diver and gymnast...so the contortionist part has some validity.

You made my day with the *intellectual* part...except, sadly, you then winked and I didn't miss that ;(


I have reached out to make

I have reached out to make the delegate who resigned aware of the suit.

Once again a Fabricated story ONLY 1 DELEGATE LOST

I would advise you to state the true facts before you spout out lies and half truths regarding the situation here in Arkansas and with the former Cordinator. It is true that we had 6 Delegates which are Paul supporters. It is true that one dropped out, that is where westfall fabricates his whole story thereafter.
Yes 1 Delegate dropped out, the other Delegate that dropped out was not even one of our Delegates, nor was he an actual Delegate. He was an AT LARGE ALTERNATE DELEGATE. So once again westfall makes up stories in his vendetta against Monica. He does not even know the reason why the one dropped out as he states and the story for the other is all made up.
I would advise anyone who reads his post to be aware that what he states has no value as they are not based on actual facts. He fabricates the truth.
He has stated that he will lie to get what he wants if he has to. Westfall is nothing more than a narcissistic troll who thrives on attention. His whole agenda is to misrepresent and lie about Monica and anyone else who doesnt agree with him.

I'm curious, Todd. How did

I'm curious, Todd. How did it feel to check out what I said and then find out that it is completely true after you start off your post with, and I quote:

"I would advise you to state the true facts before you spout out lies and half truths regarding the situation here in Arkansas and with the former Cordinator < Sic >."

I can only imagine how embarrassing it must have been to write that, and then find out that it is all 100% true and also 100% verifiable. And also that taking 10 minutes to check into this before you go and accuse another delegate of intentionally lying to troll up trouble, would have saved you from looking like a complete and utter boob who doesn't know what he's talking about.

No hard feelings though. I know you aren't a bad guy, you've just bought into everything that Monica has told you, including that you *must* vote for Romney. Btw, back before her and I had our "disagreement" I had a discussion with her about the chosen delegates. As I recall, she did not like how you were dressed at the district meeting, or your "crazy ideas" (I don't know what she was specifically referring to), but she did like how she can count on you to do what you are told; to obey her without question--apparently you were the first delegate and only delegate to respond agreeing to sign pledges/email the state GOP reaffirming you would vote for Romney.

As to the issue between me and Monica, even after all that has happened, I invited her to meet with me and 3 other people in the liberty movement to try to put out the fires and move forward. Instead of just saying no or not responding, she copied several people from the national campaign in her hate-filled response. That woman is vindictive and tyrannical when anyone disagrees with her, and has had an explosive falling out with nearly everyone in our state. The reason you have never seen this side of her is because you have never disagreed with her or stood up against her "orders". Maybe someday she can develop a less confrontational/abrasive management style and be a valuable asset to the liberty movement. And if she is able to resolve her personal issues, get past her grudges and put aside all this "drama" then I would happily welcome her back and support her.

But she's a woman, so I wouldn't be counting on it.

I'm not narcissistic, I just


I'm not narcissistic, I just realize how awesome I am.

I sent you a private email explaining the situation in more detail with names. It's true that Monica has done a great deal of damage, but also this is more of an issue of delegates not following though and standing up to people--instead folding under the first bit of pressure.

I am deeply offended that you would go off and say things like this before you verify the situation regarding Lonnie. If you want you can ask our CD4 delegate, as she brought this to my attention.

I know you still support Monica, but the fact is she has done some things that were very imprudent and has cost us 1/3 of our delegates. And, also, she has said negative things about you as well, notably how you were dressed. Of course you don't know this, because some people are *really* good at being two-faced.

Zach, The fact is you twist

Zach, The fact is you twist stuff around and leave out details. The whole blame thing is stupid. You say Monica has caused damage, well look in the mirror. You have done quite a bit yourself. I am quite aware of all the facts, I just dont go about them and slide them to sound a certain way. I will support anyone who is accused on a false pretense. The whole picture of things is not what you want to portray it to be. I guess you like to thrive off of drama which is unfortunate. I know exactly what was said regarding me, I know who said it. So dont try tell me someone said something behind my back. I was aware of that already. I am amazed that you dont comprehend the big picture.

True facts cannot be twisted,

True facts cannot be twisted, they just are facts. You say you are aware of all the facts, but you weren't aware of our delegate situation when you accused me of making all of that up.

The fact is, we have lost 1/3 of our delegates. Any way you slice it, that's a failure of leadership. I know it is harsh, but when you step up to lead an entire state, you take on a lot of responsibility, and failing to screen delegates to make sure they will follow though is negligent. I could understand 1 delegate dropping out, that could have been a fluke, but 2? What if we miss passing a motion by 2 votes in Tampa?

Furthermore, are you aware that she has had other such conflicts with other people--a lot of other people. I'm just a bit more vocal about it. AND, I gave Monica every opportunity in the world to cool it with the Vote-for-Romney threats/demands and the bashing me to *everyone*

But I don't expect you to believe me. Ask someone else you respect in the movement--chances are they've also had a run in with Monica. Or just do the math 4/6 = 67% rate of elected delegates making it to Tampa

Such people do more harm than good

It's a very common problem for political parties. People come in, all fired up, eager to make a difference, absolutely cock-sure that they have the solutions. Their energy rapidly gets used up, they get angry and leave as quickly as they appeared, in a hussy fit, demoralising others in their wake. Sad to say such people do more harm than good. Patience and keep worming away, expecting little and being happy with a bit more, has got to be the name of this game. It's either that or violent revolution - and I'm not up for that, not just yet!!

This is VERY common in political parties.

I've seen it way too much.

People get all excited and fired up and want to do something, and then realize it is slow, long, hard work. They think politics is about snapping your fingers and pressing an Easy Button. This is the same delusion liberals have. They think the only reason things aren't different is simply because no one is "making" it happen. And that all that is needed to "make" something happen if people won't do it on their own volition is to pass a law that they have to.

There is this mass delusion out there that stuff happens just because you decide it is so.

Most people have no clue how hard it is to convince other people in a civilized manner, using reason, logic, and appeal to base needs, emotions, and ideals to get them to not only agree with you, but to take action.

It is because it is so hard that so many take the easy way out and lean on government to "solve all of our problems." Because they can't fathom NOT using force to accomplish their goals. The other option is just too dang hard and takes too long.

Dr. Paul on the other hand learned long ago, that you must change hearts and minds FIRST and then policy changes. If you don't do it that way, you've really changed nothing at all - only who's in charge. "The King is dead. Long live the King!"