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I will NEVER vote for Obama or Romney

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They both suck, but Obama swallows

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RON PAUL 2012

UP UP UP all the way UP

voting the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil. Please do not forget this.

One man's evil is another man's heaven

A lot of folks say marijuana is evil.

Evil is for religion, not politics, though the NWO want politics to be religion.

Some say politics is evil. So if you are oppsed to evil, why be involved politically?

This concept is the only way we're going to fix this.

It's just baffling how every eight years Americans get exciting thinking we're going back in the right direction just because the other party is in office. I'm done being an enabler to this downward spiral.

I second it!

Will never vote for Obamney.

WRITING IN RON PAUL BECAUSE - I'LL REMEMBER IN NOVEMBER.

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul

A while back there was a post with a list of things...

that Romney and Obama were on the same page, such as:

1) Both supported NDAA...

what are the rest, so that we can use them when people say "Well Romney would be better than Obama, wouldn't he?"

'Cause there's a monster on the loose

vote for who you feel best represents YOU...

I will never vote for Romney or Obama because I feel they do not represent me as an American. If you feel that lies, murder, fraud, and hatred of personal liberty best represents you as individual then Romney or Obama would be a great choice for you.

Frankly I feel sorry for anyone who has such low self esteem that they would feel the need to lower their vote for Romney or Obama (especially Romney though).

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Please explain to me how

Please explain to me how Johnson is Pro Liberty when he refuses to protect the rights of an unborn child? HTF is that Freedom? Johnson is a fraud you idiots.

There is no Left or Right -- there is only freedom or tyranny. Everything else is an illusion, an obfuscation to keep you confused and silent as the world burns around you." - Philip Brennan

"Invest only in things that you can stand in front of and pr

You confuse his position...

Gary Johnson is AGAINST abortion after the fetus becomes viable. If the baby can live independently of the mother, abortion should be forbidden because killing the viable baby after it's born would be murder. So, killing it while it is still in the womb would be the same act.

This is the same argument Ron Paul makes for his position - except Ron Paul extrapolates life back to conception rather than viability.

Both are valid arguments in my opinion, and Johnson's argument gives way for transition to a more moral (less abortion seeking) society.

Simple. Property rights.

Simple. Property rights.

Google Rothbard and abortion and do some reading.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

lmao... a human being is not

lmao... a human being is not property. My children are not my property. They are my responcibility but not my property. Some of you people are funny.

Okay, you seriously have some

Okay, you seriously have some reading to do.

In libertarian theory, a woman's body is her own property and the fetus is an invader.

Not saying it is the most enlightened POV, only that it is consistent libertarian thought.

If you come onto my property and won't leave, I can kick you off or even kill you.

That's property rights.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

The fetus could be considered

The fetus could be considered an invader, if a woman was raped. In my view, if a woman chooses to have unprotected sex then actions=consequences=responsiblity and accountability. No?

Although that is valid from

Although that is valid from the personal responsibility argument, when you're arguing property rights, it doesn't matter.

If you invite someone into your home and later tell them they must leave, they must leave. If they refuse, yo have the right to use all of the force necessary to make them leave.

Not saying it's the right theory or wrong one, especially for everyone, only that this is the libertarian theory on the matter, which is to say Gary Johnson is more of the libertarian and Ron Paul the more religious conservative.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

It all comes down to definition.

IF you define a fetilized egg - as simply a mass of tissue until SOMETHING happens - some stage or something (birth, viability, the second trimester, whatever) then the libertarian view is that only the rights of the woman matter. She should not be forced by any law to use her body as she does not desire and to support an inhuman mass.

It is ONLY if you define the mass as human that its right take on superior standing (LIFE) to the convenience of the mother.

I am in YOUR camp myself - I think that life begins at conception. Therefore any abortion is murder.

But I understand how some people disagree.

Regrets...

No matter when you choose to define the moment a fetus is "human", at the moment of conception there is life, and if you left it well enough alone, a human emerges from this mass of cells. For me, now, (almost 58 and mother of 2)I know that I don't know, and feel it best to defer on the side of life...no one dies if I'm wrong this way, possibly inconvenienced, yes. I say this from experience. As a young woman, I had an abortion and in retrospect, it is the only true, deep regret of my life. And now it haunts me knowing I could have handled the situation differently, and saved the life of my child.

I don't wish that kind of regret on anyone...

If my need to be RIGHT is greater than my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle

I was adopted.

The female I was born to was underage - and her family put great pressure on her to have an abortion (it was legal for underage pregnancies even before Roe v Wade.)

She refused and was even kicked out of the house and forced to live with an aunt until I was born.

She didn't raise me, though she did try to find me later when she was older, married and had other children. She always told the other children that they had a brother out there and that someday they would find him (it was a sealed adoption). She is my hero to this day.

You chocked me up as I read this as...

you, Sir, are a living example of what I SHOULD have done. I truly wish I had had your mother's strength and steadfastness.

If my need to be RIGHT is greater than my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle

deleted

deleted

If my need to be RIGHT is greater than my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle

deleted????

I don't understand.

The Libertybelle: If you want to know more I would be happy to communicate privately.

You will forgive me I hope, for not wanting to make all information part of the public record.

It was my birthmother of course who had strength and courage. I cannot take credit. I found her when I was 19 years old by doing some detective work.

It was a very happy reunion.

I didn't want to hurt you...

It was hard to express here that I see you as the son I lost...that's what hurt, especially when I remembered your loss...I just couldn't say it and hurt you too, so I deleted the post..but now I have said it anyway.

My soul is blowing in the wind...

But, who knows, maybe some will read this and change their mind and do what your Mother did...if so it would be worth every moment of pain.

If my need to be RIGHT is greater than my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle

While I have no doubt that you feel pain in losing a child you

never raised or held as a baby - it is much different than losing one at twenty years.

I will tell you one further detail. You might have heard of a sleep medication that causes one to "sleep drive"? People have been known to get up in the middle of the night, and make phone calls or walk around the block, in a trance state and have no idea what they are doing. Or that they have done anything at all, in the morning.

My son was taking that medication (For legal reasons I cannot identify it - but it was in the news recently regarding a Kennedy family member), when on a cold March day, he got up and still in his pajamas (no ID or even slippers on) he drove his mothers car some ten miles before he missed a curve, hit a tree and was killed instantly.

We lived in Wisconsin and there was still snow on the ground. People are not known to get up for pleasure drives without coats and in their barefeet at 1:00 am here in early March in Wisconsin.

He had no alchohol or other drugs in his system. The police came to the door and informed my exwife that her car had been involved in an accident. She was shocked as both she and her husband were in bed. It was then as an afterthought that they checked my son's room.

One moment a living vibrant 20 year old son with a wonderful future ahead - and in an instant we are planning a funeral.

I am not your son of course. And while I appreciate your pain, you should also appreciate mine. And that we had NO decision in the matter at all.

This is why I am so bitter. No warning. No decision making. No rationale. Just one minute I had the son that people dream of having. And the next moment he is just dead

And we never even had a chance to say good-bye.

True, no comparison...

I have two sons and can only imagine the pain and did not want to force you to touch that place. But I did and I apologize.

I am deeply moved,and touched that you shared that with me.

If my need to be RIGHT is greater than my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle

The only way to change the morality of society...

is to lead by example.

No amount of government force can replace a population that adopts standing up for what they believe in on a regular basis in their own lives.

I was moved by the story too.

Yes...you cannot legislate morality.

We evolve as a species one individual at a time. My consolation is that I have learned and grown in the coarse of my life. Mistakes are blessings for this reason.It is why I share such a deeply personal story. And I have told this story before. I never guessed I would receive such an incredible response as jetguy provided.

I keep telling my story in the hope that if I can change but one mind, I will have helped to save a life. It does not negate my culpability nor my loss, only mitigate it.

If my need to be RIGHT is greater than my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle

I think that is one of the

I think that is one of the dangers of an abortion and one of the reasons why it is a deeply personal decision.

No one is PRO-abortion. But what is the alternative? More laws, jail time? More government?

I am pro-life in theory, but I don't know how we can end abortion in a way that doesn't cause a civil war.

This is what happened with slavery and the country paid a massive price.

So education is important, to get to the point where women don't get pregnant by accident very often and when they do, the idea of abortion doesn't pop into their mind.

In the meantime, I don't think locking up 17 year old girls makes much sense.

BTW, I have a friend that, at 40, only wanted to have one baby. Her first would have had down's, so they aborted and tried again. Yes, one baby never got to live, but a second DID and is a perfectly healthy wonderful kid. So while it was a tough decision, it was the right decision for them.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

WOW...Your post saddens me

WOW...You post saddens me deeply with it's hubris and short sightedness. I was once this way, but I have grown (or so I hope.)Some of the finest, kindest and most wonderful human beings I know have Downs...who are we to decide who lives and dies? Do you realize they and might have terminated the life of a person who would have shown them the true meaning of LOVE?

This power of life or death should not be in our hands for we cannot see all ends.

That is what I have learned.

If my need to be RIGHT is greater than my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle

stupid ignorant post....

stupid ignorant post....

So why did you write it?

So why did you write it?

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"