20 votes

Video: 'FREE Irwin Schiff!' Road Trip! Peter travels to see his Father, & meets r3VOLutionaries along the Way!

Free Irwin Schiff! Free Irwin Schiff! Free Irwin Schiff!

He will be the recipient of President Doctor Ronald Ernest Paul's very first act of pardon! Mark my words, y'all.

The 'other' father and son freedom duo:

'Free Irwin' Road Show

http://youtu.be/AvO907eV_Ic

Published on Jul 27, 2012 by SchiffReport

Peter travels to Terre Haute, Ind. to visit his dad, Irwin, interviewing people he meets along the way.

Visit www.FreeIrwin.com for more info and to get your "Free Irwin" t-shirt!

UPDATE 1: How does one know whether someone actually knows what they're talking about? When they can teach others, in the simplest of terms possible.

For those who may not be familiar with Irwin Schiff, Peter Schiff's father, please check out the following excellent econ primer:

How an Economy Grows, and Why It Doesn't

Courtesy of AZJoe: http://freedom-school.com...

You can also 'read' it on YouTube:

http://youtu.be/bFxvy9XyUtg



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how the government illegally imposes

... and unlawfully collects income taxes:

http://www.amazon.com/Federal-Mafia-Illegally-Unlawfully-Col...

Irwin Schiff is correct and amazon is brave for still having a link to this book still up. This book is banned material in all forums and this includes amazons selling of it. read the court order banning the book at www.paynoincometax.com . Schiff is under is prosecution (persecution is more like it) by the Feds because they of course want to keep us all slaves. And we are slaves no matter how you want to justify it. (paying a "fair share" is a socialist term) Serfs in feudal England were considered slaves and they got to take home more than we do now. The Federal Government operates outside the Law and the courts are clearly simply ignoring the facts. Go to his site and read the motions and decisions rendered so far and see for your self how the court behaves. There is of course one reviewer here who is clearly a Federal Agent. Do note that according to the Patriot Act, once you purchase this book, the government will know about it and you will be on thier hit list. So if you can get it through other means.
- The Truth can be Costly

THANK YOU, Mike and the Mods!

for embedding the YouTube vids!

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

Peter Schiff is great...

I watch all his stuff on YouTube, but last I checked this isn't the Daily Schiff.

We need to focus on Tampa.

good, you can focus on Tampa,

others can focus on Tampa, chew, type, start a thread, discuss a thread, and talk at the same time.

It just one thread, Mr. ControlFreak, nothing more.

Starting a thread doesn't make it Daily Schiff.

By same assertion, it's not Daily Johnson, but that hasn't stopped others, nor am I so insecure as to arrogantly tell other members what to, or what not to focus on; if you have learned anything here, take heed that individualists don't tell others what to do, especially when you have no rapport or have established a previous set of credibility with them. You'd think this would be obvious by now.

Last I checked, no one thinks merely discussing Schiff, made DP into DS.

Besides, Tampa is at tail end of August; I'm not a delegate, and cannot attend. So, just what do you think it is that I or others 'should do' to qualify your vision of "focus on Tampa?"

And if you're so certain that whatever your plans, or non-plans for Tampa should be promoted, let's hear it. Don't talk, do, or share. Because IF you actually have a plan worthy of note, I'm sincerely all ears. But your snide quip, doesn't get me to Tampa.

So, get a grip. Take a breath, and learn to put things into proper context, then we can discuss, if that's what you want to do. But you're sorely mistaken if you think this is how one would open up a dialog, if at all that was your goal to begin with, which I must assume wasn't since I can find no presence of tact.

More Vickers, please?

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

I agree...

and make an argument here too - http://www.dailypaul.com/246510#comment-2640521

Sarcasm sir...

just sarcasm.

I'm voting for Johnson.

Here's another comment I posted a few minutes ago - http://www.dailypaul.com/245788/while-ron-paul-supporters-su...

so after all that fogettable verbal exposition, you mean

you actually don't have any solid plans to "focus on Tampa?"

shocking.

lol.

If you're voting for Johnson, sarcasm or not, then you don't have to do much in Tampa, so what was your whole point again??

right. thought so.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

YOU made my point...

I was hoping for a reaction like yours so that it would be apparent to the contingent of Johnson-haters how silly it really is.

remember me talking about tact?

your replies are making my point, rather well, because it's actually kinda self-evident what you're doing.

Well, when you take ex-post facto credit for something you didn't intend, doesn't look good.

Nor, does coming off like an initiator for some cheeseball z-grade Machiavellian verbal interchange. Don't know what you're getting all excited about.

And yes, this is indeed getting too silly.

But hey, it's a Saturday and I've got some spare time to get my daily bemusement quota fulfilled: no loss to me.

Plus it keeps my thread higher up on the roster. LOLOLOL

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

I like the article...

I voted it up.

Did you notice Schiff says to vote for Gary Johnson about 38-39 minutes in?

and you think that changes my vote for Ron Paul, because...

LOL!

Um, you're still not getting this whole 'I can respect person X's opinions and works, but still not vote for him'-thingy, eh?

You know, one can like Ayn Rand's The FountainHead and/or Atlas Shrugged, but not like her, or even detest her, for the moronic comments she made on Phil Donohue: labeling ALL Arabs and Palestinians as "almost primitive savages... racists"

Why do people so routinely conflate 'liking'/'respecting'/'like his/her work x' to mean a complete 'I'll follow you to the ends of the earth'-endorsement??

Have you not been paying attention to WHY those of us who do respect Dr. Paul, do?

Seriously, if you had learned anything during your short stay here, one would hope it would be that; IF you actually truly understood WHY we respect Dr. Paul in the manner that we do, you'd clearly see how silly your implied allusion, of you pointing that out about what Peter said, is, in context of this discussion.

You honestly think it's 'natural' or predictable that a vast segment of population will simply wake up one morning and go 'gee, let me go crazy for a 75year old septuagenarian who constantly talks about the Federal Reserve, foreign policy, Austrian economics' in an Mtv era, for no good, deep, personal reasons?

really?

All this tells me is that your "Ron Paul is my preferred candidate..." is more than likely, simply a political decision, not one borne out of a principled disposition, no?

Try again.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

You don't even know me...

and the time that a person has been a member on the Daily Paul is not necessarily a valid indicator of the amount of time that person has supported the Liberty Movement.

You jump to conclusions too quickly.

Please refer to the TWO following replies:

Pt. by Pt. reply

You know what, I actually...

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

You're being...

disrespectful now.

Here is a video I made months ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZWCRrJUo34

I'd say I understand what's at stake here.

You know what, I actually...

watched some of your videos awhile back, independent of your link above, today.

I agree: I'd say you clearly DO "understand what's at stake here."

I really liked some your commentaries, back then. And, had no idea you're the same person I saw on YouTube, until now. So thank you for providing me a more complete context of where you maybe coming from.

Which is why I personally find this kinda disappointing that this is the manner in which you chose to engage, particularly your very first reply on this thread. Because unfortunately, whether it was intended or not, you came across as someone who keeps trying to 'convert' DP members without communicating that you 'get' why they support RP in the first place; because frankly brother, that's not coming through.

I clearly do believe you mean well, so I have no reason to further entertain this particular topic.

I wish you luck in your endeavors in trying to garner as much Johnson voters as you can. But, if you actually are serious about 'converting' them to your cause, as I've stated above, you're gonna have to communicate that you understand why it is that you truly believe someone who supports RP should, now support GJ.

As for me personally, Gary Johnson's public statements on foreign intervention and keeping GitMo open, made supporting Gary's candidacy in any shape or form, DOA, and still is.

With that said, adieu Brother, for the time being. This will be my last reply on this topic.

If you track back to some of my past, rather long winded and verbose commentaries, you'd clearly see that I'd have no problem prolonging our exchanges, in perpetuity, but have no need to.

Also, I don't want to keep raining on your parade. So, this WILL be my final remark on this topic, with you.

So sincerely, I wish you well. But, if you are truly, really serious, I hope at the least you'd consider some points I've raised, particularly here: http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2642090 as you'll no doubt continually come across them from other R3VOLutionaries.

Good luck, and best wishes.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

My whole point is...

that talk of other liberty minded people besides Ron Paul should NOT be censored.

I'm tired of the same sentiment being expressed in Johnson posts.

I was making an example. I think you are overreacting because you misunderstood my purpose.

The whole idea of censorship on a liberty forum is silly.

so basically you overreacted to my thread thinking others

overreacted to you, on another post that I've never read... only to reply to me replying to your overreaction, to now back to telling me I'm overreacting?

clearly D, you ARE overreacting. LOLOLOL

I did not misunderstand your purpose, as you failed to qualify or clearly establish your purpose in the first place, when you assumed as IF I should've been aware of the troubles you've been having on other threads with others, with your on-going qualms as an originator of numerous detested pro-Gary Johnson threads, on a site called "Daily PAUL."

Seriously, you're honestly befuddled as to why, so many would have problem with the nature of your posts?

No, seriously? The whole "Daily PAUL" thing... kinda didn't stick, eh?

Though, now having actually perused some of your posts, I must say my friend, if your goal was, or is to actually convert or at the least posit a possibility for current soon-to-be writing in "Ron Paul" r3VOL to vote for GJ, you're not doing it very well, nor are you deploying much tact.

Seriously, ever ask yourself if that actually was your goal?

Because if you're truly serious about converting some to vote for GJ, you'd have to make a far better case than disparagingly being dismissive of DP members' choice to still write in Dr. Paul, regardless of what happens.

Assuming you actually respect DP members' intelligence enough, you'd have to know that, that basically tells you that most R3VOL feel writing-in "Ron Paul" to be a far better, more personally principled, and consistent choice for them, than to vote for Gary Johnson.

If so, do you honestly believe simply telling them that they're making a mistake, would actually garner support for Gary? Since you're new here, as one would do when attempting to 'convert' anyone, should you not actually figure out what it is that they so deeply respect about Dr. Paul, that they'd rather write in Dr. Paul's name, than your favored candidate, whom to you should be an obvious 2nd choice to us, but is obviously not??

When you're ready to address those issues, perhaps you'll have better luck. But honestly dude, being 'new' here does matter, particularly when the type of comments one makes, are precisely seen as disrespectful to DP members here, and to Dr. Paul, whether that is your intention, or inadvertent.

Unless you 'get' that, that is how it MAY be seen, whether you like it or not; whether that's true or not, you're not gonna make any headway, if you're continually seen that way, no?

With that said, surprise: I'd rather write-in Dr. Paul, than Gary, because frankly oBUSHma and WRONGney are no different, and by any real measure, if anything, especially if one were to look at this whole political charade even from the minarchist big-L Libertarian Party consequentialist point of view, Gary has far less chance than Dr. Paul, ever will.

Besides, to most of us, writing in Dr. Paul's name is a far bigger and more effective political statement than it would be to vote for a "libertarian" who actually IS for "humanitarian" military use, not to mention, keeping GitMo open.

So what's your "focus on Tampa" plan? Seriously.

Are you from Florida?

Are you organizing for PaulFest for... Gary??

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

As far as speaking of Johnson...

on the site I agree with Michael Nystrom - http://www.dailypaul.com/246545#comment-2640606

Why does discussion...

turn off 'open-minded' people?

don't know, why does actual response

get repetitive non sequiturs and not turn on 'open-minded' people?

seriously, what ARE your proposed "focus on Tampa" plans?

I just had a deja vu; did you and I not go back and forth on this couple of weeks ago?

Weren't you the one who said the same basic thing, and I asked you for your specific Tampa plans or 'convert' sheeple plans, and you said you'll have something soon... but didn't?

so all this was rhetorical verbal flourish, again? lol.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

You have me confused with someone else...

Your just being slanderous now without backing it up with fact.

Where's that tact you spoke of earlier?

Please refer to the TWO following replies:

Pt. by Pt. reply

You know what, I actually...

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

Ron Paul is my preferred candidate...

But he's likely not going to be on the ballot.

Here are the election results from 2008 as posted on wiki -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_elec...

Ron Paul is not even listed. The real numbers of the liberty movement will never be known in the 2012 election if people write him in. It will be swept under the rug like it never even happened - as it appears in the records from '08.

How can any fighter of liberty be satisfied with that? Ron Paul respects Gary Johnson. Why did he seek out Johnson in 2008 and request his endorsement?

I remember early on in the election cycle when folks were happy to see Johnson in the Republican race. Now they say they will NEVER vote for Johnson just as eagerly as they would of Obama.

Why? Because someone posted about him on a site they happen to like? People have bought into anti-Johnson propaganda just like the neo-cons have bought the propaganda about Paul.

so...

where's the 'Gary Johnson Movement?'

Ever wonder why there isn't one?

Should I be so concerned about what others and sheeple may or may not notice based upon their 'discovery', in terms of the efficacy of what percentage of RP write-ins that counted, or not?

We already know that all polling data are AP's own arbitrary numbers anyway.

That's not what I was referring to, when I said making a "bigger political statement." We're already taking over what counts: actual local seats. Also, just look at the MSM's non-coverage of the whole delegate process: except for upper management in MSM, most of their lackeys/'reporters' are utterly clueless of the process, or how significant what we were doing, was.

But even more importantly, we're actually succeeding in an arena with a measurable metric. We're driving any and all national topic of political discourse of note: the war, foreign policy in context of economic policy, the debt, the FED, etc.

Also, once you go Paul, this:

"How can any fighter of liberty be satisfied with that?" - is just not enough.

"Ron Paul respects Gary Johnson. Why did he seek out Johnson in 2008 and request his endorsement?" - that's irrelevant to me in deciding to support RP or GJ.

What you're invoking is an action only Dr. Paul has an answer for; nobody speaks for Dr. Paul, but himself. So you'd have to ask him that, if you're truly curious. I have no way of verifying one way or another, other than to speculate.

What I can clearly state about my own personal political process?

I vote based on the candidate's voting record, his fealty to his oath, and the range of variance in the candidate's publicly stated principles and positions vs. actual actions taken on its behalf.

By that criteria, for me, Dr. Paul passes with flying colors, Gary simply does not: did you miss the part about how I, along with others won't vote for a candidate who's for 'humanitarian' foreign intervention, not to mention, keeping Git'Mo open?

Kinda big thing with us R3VOLutionaries, since we're talking being principled and all.

Besides, economically speaking at current FED trajectory, it's mathematically impossible to avert a global currency collapse with $1.5 quadrillion (BIS's rather moderate conservative estimate in 2010) in worldwide derivatives exposures that the FED has made us liable to.

With Dr. Paul, he would've at least been able to guide the sinking ship before it completely bottomed out in the toxic ocean safely back to drydock, then getting a complete structural overhaul, before setting sail again.

GJ is not even in the same ballpark, in comparison to Dr. Paul's level of economic understanding.

So, unless Gary can demonstrate that he can be at least 80% Ron Paul, it ain't happening, for many of us. You can claim or indirectly imply that we're 'making a mistake' all you want, but intellectually, and morally speaking, GJ is simply not convincing most of us, despite the fact that many of us feel that he's probably a nice guy, and well-meaning.

Hell, as far as I'm personally concerned, even Rand is at 20% or (much) less in the "ron paul-ness" meter, after the recent events, regardless of whether it was a smart short-term political play, or not.

and really D,

Why? Because someone posted about him on a site they happen to like? People have bought into anti-Johnson propaganda just like the neo-cons have bought the propaganda about Paul.

you gotta stop referring to other posts that I haven't read, nor care; you cannot expect me to respond to your own personal sentiments and reactions to what others have posted, and expect me to rebut/counter or agree with you, expecting you applying your deductions that you've settled on based on your previous exchanges and personal sentiments based on those posts.

If all THAT, is your core primary concern, I need not be talking to you. Because all of that, are issues of no relevance to me, as to what the range of discussions here 'seem to be' allowed, or not. I simply could care less.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

Point by Point...

I've already discussed the 'Movement' question.

2. Impact of Paul supporters on local and state GOP apparatuses -

You act like I'm some MSM junkie. I don't even have cable. I read books and topics that I am interested about on the internet. I rarely read any of the garbage. Your attempts to talk down to me are based on your assumption that because my account may be new on the site that for some reason I am a complete moron that has remained uninformed this entire election cycle. Truth be told, I was involved in the local meetup group where I live and the Youth for Ron Paul chapter at the university where I am a graduate student.

To focus only on one path to victory is a very narrow approach. There is no reason why people can't use our 'precious' time we have now to multitask - to do our best to pursue any path to the GOP nomination for Paul AND to do our best to not have the debates be a jovial forum for Mitt and Obama to discuss how much they agree on everything.

If Ron Paul gets the nomination, Johnson can kiss my rear. Ron Paul is the reason why I ever got involved in the first place. But I also know this 'Movement' can't end with Ron Paul either. Gary

Johnson is MUCH more liberty minded than either Romney or Obama. If you want to make a logical argument to write-in Paul, you would have to argue that GJ is worse on liberty than Romney or Obama. Incrementalism got us into this mess, and Johnson is a damn 'Ace in the Hole' for liberty compared to RObamney.

Your approach defeats your goals with respect to the race for POTUS in the event Ron Paul doesn't get nominated. Romney wins... Obama wins... Then, liberty surely must wait until 2016... Maybe longer if Romney pulls off a 'November Miracle.'

Truth be told - as far as the POTUS race is concerned - Johnson is the liberty movement's best shot.

As far as your concerns with Johnson's foreign policy, I would concern myself with the bigger picture - which GJ has said that he would NEVER take military action without declaration by Congress (same argument Paul gives). Johnson says he wants to immediately pull the troops from Afghanistan, and he understands that Iran is not a threat to the US.

If either Romney or Obama get into office, McCain will be gleefully singing bomb-bomb-bomb-Iran as he watches the first missiles land on television Iraq war style within the term of the next presidency. Johnson on the other hand WON'T.

But I guess EVEN if a Johnson presidency could save a few thousand military lives by avoiding a war with Iran, writing in Ron Paul is still the liberty minded thing to do.

pt. by pt.

1. I never assumed as if you were an MSM junkie
2. I wouldn't talk this much in length and reply repeatedly, if I thought you were "a complete moron," especially to another person on DailyPaul

3. you mistake in assuming just because someone strongly supports RP, it's the sole political decision or path one is employing; we were only discussing why for some here voting for GJ is a no go, not whether the liberty movement stops w/cessation of RP2012 campaign. To all here, that's already not a secret, so frankly I assumed we're speaking with that understanding in mind. Everyone multitasks here, just because you get caught up discussing one particular topic with someone here, does not mean that person is solely focused on one thing, and one thing only.

4. true:

Gary Johnson is MUCH more liberty minded than either Romney or Obama.

5. Yes:

If you want to make a logical argument to write-in Paul, you would have to argue that GJ is worse on liberty than Romney or Obama.

since we're now discussing 'reale-politik' political tact: I DO believe that Gary Johnson would NOT be "worse ON liberty."

However, Gary will be FAR WORSE FOR the liberty movement, for the time being, than to have either two statist murderous jokers pretty much solidify the idea to even the most gullible sheeple populace that there's only one party: the statist party who are destroying the Republic and the world.

OMG! OMG! How can anyone claim that, one may inquire?

Well, for one thing, the division GJ's supporters have caused before Tampa has even wrapped up, is the same poor political strategy akin to Rand's endorsement timing.

In case you haven't noticed, that is also the reason why many GJ supporters are getting slammed here: your timing sucks, like Rand, Benton, Olson, Tate, and Hunter; ALL of which also lead many DP members to believe that current GJ supporters on DP fundamentally never 'got' why it is that we support RP in the first place.

6. I agree, again:

Incrementalism got us into this mess,

and GJ IS the epitome of "incrementalism" from the liberty movement perspective, compared to RP, he's not even one one-thousandth of the man.

7. This:

Johnson is a damn 'Ace in the Hole' for liberty compared to RObamney.

is your opinion that many don't share with you here, for just few of the reasons I cited above.

Because if GJ was an obvious "Ace in the Hole" especially prior to Tampa has wrapped up, you wouldn't be getting such strong opposition or have such hard time 'converting.' Now I understand that tactically, it's great to have GJ supporters continue to do their thing to 'seamlessly' transition, should the longshot chance of RP becoming nominated falls through.

But if you're truly for GJ now, you should be doing everything on his behalf anyway regardless of whether you can convince a sizable chunk of current RP supporters or not. So, none of what we in the R3VOLution 'don't' do, on GJ2012 campaign's behalf should matter, either way.

Because frankly, all GJ supporters are doing, when it comes to dealing w/R3VOLution, are simply pissing us off, for all the wrong reasons, unnecessarily by trying to shove him down our throats. Even IF that's not your intent, it's obvious that many are taking it that way, and the inevitable effect is you're all simply seen as driving a wedge within the Liberty Movement.

So, if conversion was GJ supporters' aim, they need to be cognizant of that.

8. No:

Your approach defeats your goals with respect to the race for POTUS in the event Ron Paul doesn't get nominated

not really.

Because:

Romney wins... Obama wins... Then, liberty surely must wait until 2016... Maybe longer if Romney pulls off a 'November Miracle.'

that's gonna happen anyway.

Gary Johnson would ONLY be a political statement, as far as many of us are concerned.

If GJ has hard time inspiring activists from the same pool that he seeks to dip into where RP r3VOLution play, now, just how much success do you think he'll have beyond Tampa, heading into November, let alone convincing the general sheeple voting populace?

To many here, our logic is, IF we're gonna make a political statement, for all Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul has done/is doing/will continue to do, for all he's inspired, for all we've done on his and our behalf, we're not just about to throw it all away on GJ, simply to make a political statement.

And notice, unfortunately for the GJ supporters, to many of us in the R3VOLution, the very notion of 'supporting GJ,' whether you like it or not, the reality is, it IS simply seen that way: to support GJ would equal THROWING OUR SUPPORT AWAY from Dr. Paul, on a 'nobody.'

Because to many in the r3VOLution, regardless of what you and other GJ supporters believe, if you thought sheeple deluded 'Ron Paul had zero chance,' to us, Gary Johnson TRULY has ZERO chance, precisely because he has trouble firing up any of us.

So it's only natural to make that final political statement with Dr. Paul, when the election reality will be either of the two political parties and their NWO Wall St. Military Industrial Complex puppet whores oBUSHma or WRONGney, aka oBomBney, anyway.

See, people only like the third alternative, when that person is truly an alternative. But because RP is still in play, unfortunately for you and other GJ supporters, Gary is just not that alternative choice.

Similarly, you'd have to truly 'get' the psychology behind WHY anyone would support RP and become a Republican, even after knowing that he's also a member of the same GOP that produced a murderous tyrant and warcrimnal like GWB, just a few years ago, not to mention, their previous murderous history, prior to the Bush Crime Family, but NOT join the libertarian party to support an individual candidate, beyond the corrupt party politics.

So the question is, why do you think that people can 'forgive' GWB's GOP for RP, but NOT Bob Barr/Wayne Allen Root's Libertarian Party for GJ.

The answer is simple: our support for RP far outweigh the crimes of GOP.

Barr & Root's ilk, is a far sour note to small-"l" libertarians, precisely because they were meant to be an alternative, but obviously proven to be false; when the supposed third party nominates a former CIA warmongering statist, ya kinda lose your 'alternative' credibility.

That's just how they're seen. And no amount of pro-GJ meme is gonna change that, at least for the time being. Didn't say that was fair, but unfortunately, that is precisely how anyone related to Libertarian Party is viewed. And since GJ don't inspire the level of fervor that RP can, not enough for liberty activists to overlook their ongoing disdain for Libertarian Party's past mistakes, well... there you have it.

THAT, in a nutshell is WHY Gary is not gaining any traction with us.

And, unfortunately, GJ is seen as a worse act of incrementalism, than would be for simply letting the two party monsters and their POTUS candidates, simply destroy the Republic.

If you're serious about 'converting' you have to be aware, for those whom you're having the hardest time 'getting through,' more than likely, what I cited above, is PRECISELY the reason why they can't fathom ever voting for Gary, whether you believe that's fair or not.

PS. You want to talk incrementalism, again?

As far as your concerns with Johnson's foreign policy, I would concern myself with the bigger picture - which GJ has said that he would NEVER take military action without declaration by Congress (same argument Paul gives). Johnson says he wants to immediately pull the troops from Afghanistan, and he understands that Iran is not a threat to the US.

that's the same arguments some anti-war liberals made about Clinton.

So you see, how your argument that voting for GJ, after he made his foreign policy views known (believe me, I ABHOR Jamie Weinstein at TheDC who hates the Doc. But, when an idiot neocon AIPAC drone/whore can clearly see and discern the obvious difference between RP's foreign policy and GJ's nebulous one, you know we're in the TwilightZone), to those of us who were so inspired to know that someone so utterly indefatigably principally consistent like Dr. Paul could even exist in the world, who stood firm NO MATTER WHAT, is a no go, when Gary's never even been in DC and is already weak on foreign policy.

There can be no such thing as the "Bigger Picture" for a person who is essentially demonstrating to us that he's a compromiser on issues of massive concerns to us, before he's even worked in the hell hole that is the District of Criminals. Gary, in not so many ways, is communicating to his potential supporters that we are not exactly sure if he WOULDN'T be influenced by DC. We KNOW Dr. Paul, even after 24years down there, came back home FREE of ANY of DC's disgusting, evil, scheisse stains on him.

Our Gray Champ is Teflon, baby!

With Gary, we're not so sure, precisely because he's ALREADY sending signals that he's pliable to the wishes of the lunatic neoCon Likudnik/AIPAC faction.

Also, you're omitting GJ's biggest foreign policy faux pas, as far as the r3VOLution is concerned: keeping Git'Mo open.

That alone, makes his candidacy dead in the water for me, and many others.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

Because Gary Johnson...

hasn't ran for President THREE times. He didn't even get into politics until a couple of weeks before his first run for governor, and that wasn't until 1995.

Ron Paul has been at it since the 1970's.

That's why there isn't a 'Gary Johnson Movement' just like there is NOT going to be a 'John Smith Movement' for the next liberty candidate that we probably haven't even heard of yet.

Your arguments are weak.

Please refer to the TWO following replies:

Pt. by Pt. reply

You know what, I actually...

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

michcrow's picture

In case Peter Schiff reads this

The introduction to the video is simply OUTSTANDING!!

Two shorten the road.

I agree!!!

.o)

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul