2 votes

Consequences of a Mid-East Withdraw

I have a nice question for everyone.

My father and I talk politics all the time, generally agreeing. He's not a Ron Paul supporter, but does like him and agrees with many if not most of his policy positions.

Here's my question: what would be the consequences of ending all our foreign "peace keeping" wars and not starting any new ones?

I realize there are different views on when/where we should go to war and under what circumstances, but I want to objectively discuss the direct results of a troop withdrawal. Would it result in Iran gaining nuclear power and becoming a global threat? Would terrorist organizations gain such power that they would be unrestrained and cause more trouble? Etc.

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Great Responses

Thank you all for your comments and ideas. I hope no one has taken my question to mean that I think we should be intervening in these countries. Certainly I understand the concept of national allies, and recognize their importance in our increasingly interconnected world, but like just about everyone here, I subscribe to a non-interventionist philosophy.

I think it's important when discussing the issues with yet-to-be liberty supporters that we focus on education. Sorry if that caused a negative vote on another of my comments, but I stand by my stance. I used to think we needed to invade Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, etc. because I was taught that if we didn't, we'd immediately be attacked. Sounds pretty stupid NOW, but when you're force fed this stuff you don't always know what else to think until someone comes along to teach you.

Peace, love, and liberty all!

www.standardexcellence.net - Bringing you Oklahoma, Texas and national news & opinion that matters for liberty.

What would happen if the U.S. withdrew all its forces globally?

Well, clearly Ahmadinejad would nuke Israel while stroking his bald cat and laughing mischievously, after growing a mustache and invading Poland, but before swimming his million-man army across the Indian and Atlantic Ocean to build a mosque in Hartford Connecticut. /sarc

Or....

Europe: Nothing much would change. The European nations, whether individually or through the EU, would increase their military spending slightly to maintain the balance of power with Russia.

E. Asia: Japan, S. Korea, and Taiwan (the three nations most dependent on American military support) would dramatically increase their military spending, and develop a balance of power amongst themselves and with China. There's a possibility that China reconquers Taiwan, if Taiwan proves unable or unwilling to pay the heavy price required to defend itself.

Middle East:

Option (A)
A new balance of power will emerge dominated by Turkey, Iran, and Egypt. The influence of Israel and Saudi Arabia will be much-reduced. The Arab-Israeli conflict will end, as the Israelis are forced to recognize the new limitations on their power. The "Arab Spring" may or may not continue, but the three major Muslim States would combine to suppress it if it did. Neither the vision of the Western "nation-builders" nor the vision of the radical Islamists would prevail. The future of the Middle East would belong to basically conservative elements. This would represent a return, after a forty year interval of Western intervention, to the path on which the M.E. was headed in the immediately post-colonial era.

Option (B)
The vacuum of power left in the wake of the American withdrawal will be filled by China and Russia, which will inherit the advantages and costs associated with the job of Middle Eastern policeman.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

I'm sure it's all been covered, but

terrorist groups would lose power. They are currently empowered by our fp. Iran may or may not get a nuke. There incentive would be less if they didn't feel threatened. Either way there is no evidence they would become a "global threat"... Just look at the last time they invaded anther country.

There is an outside chance that we could prevent the destruction of the dollar. There is an outside chance we could get the debt under control. Neither of these are possible with our current FP.

There is literally NO upside to our current FP... unless you are a war profiteer.

I am not sure I agree that the US military is keeping peace

anywhere. Putting the shoe on the other foot, I do not think that Middle Eastern 'peace keepers' would be welcomed much in my neighborhood.

I picture a red checkered scarfed long mustached Bedouin riding bare-backed camel with Kalashnikov and white caftan/sash ordering me to cover my head, quit driving, stay at home and cook and clean more. As offensive as that is to me, our way is equally offensive to them.

When Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul is President.

When Dr. Paul is President he will close down all the overseas bases, bring all the troops home, stop all foreign aid and not intervene in any nation's affairs unless they attack the United States.

There are 45 US bases surrounding Iran. They will all close down. Israel will be free of any interference from Washington so they will declare Jerusalem to be the capital of Israel thereby inflaming Muslim sentiments.

This will bring about the final stages of the Middle East War and the end will be the destruction of Jerusalem by a nuclear device. (Isaiah 28)

The war will be contained and not spread to the rest of the world because President Paul will use diplomatic initiatives to prevent it.

The Christian Zionists will be bought to repent of their devotion to the Jewish State as the scales fall from their eyes and their bloodlust against the Muslim world turns to forgiveness and peacemaking. The influence of AIPAC on US policy will end.

The American people will flock to support President Paul for his astute handling of the crisis and this will give him unlimited political capital to pursue his Plan to Restore America.

With the elimination of Israel from the world scene the prospects for world peace will never be better and the economic revival of the United States and the dismantling of the global central banking cabal will lead the world into a time of global restoration with an entirely new economic paradigm introduced by President Paul.

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

Samson Option, Israel's Political Insanity.

+1. David, you wrote [[ This will bring about the final stages of the Middle East War and the end will be the destruction of Jerusalem by a nuclear device. (Isaiah 28) ]]. I wonder who will bomb JeruSalem, - the arabs lack capability, Iran is lacking too. Pakistan has the bomb, but I think it will not get involved in this dangerous conflict /game - for two reasons. 1, heavy U$ influence /pressure. & 2, about two hundred thousand palestinians living in JeruSalem.

Please also consider the "Samson Option" of Israel. I googled it and found many articles, pasting 2 links below -

ISRAELI POLITICAL INSANITY. THE SAMSON OPTION: Israeli Letter-poem to Grass: If We Go, Everyone Goes - by Gil Ronen -
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=30460

The Samson Option Still Threatens the World, by Carol Moore,
http://www.carolmoore.net/nuclearwar/israelithreats.html

Yes, the Samson Option is certainly a possibility.

In one sense that might well be the second Holocaust since the population in Israel is six million. Six million has some kind of significance in the Kabbala. I believe it symbolises mankind. The six million sacrificed in the WWII Holocaust is then seen, I believe, by the Kabbalist as the single most important ontological event in world history rivalling that of the Crucifixion of the Lord Jesus Christ (perhaps even counterfeiting it) and fulfilling the prophecy of the suffering Servant of Isaiah 53. In other words the Jewish people become the corporate Messiah. The Zionists did collaborate with the Nazis in effecting the Holocaust in the belief that it would assist their plans to establish the Jewish State. As it happened they were correct.

It may well be that the leaders of Israel are planning something similar to ensure their own personal emergence from the destruction of Jerusalem and to catapult them into world wide importance.

One other possibility that has come to my mind from reading certain prophecies is that the United States will discover that Israel carried out 9/11. There will be a public demand that the US attack Israel and Israel may use their nuclear capability against the US. The US missile defence will repel the attack and the rest will follow. Since I have reason to believe that the war will not extend outside the Middle East I doubt that the US will suffer any major damage.

Finally, if Israel does attack Iran and use nuclear weapons then one of Iran's nuclear allies may decide to act defensively against Israel on their behalf.

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

Cannot Tell You How Uplifting I Find Your Posts

...and your optimism. It is perhaps at this point only one scenario to me...and very biblically based. I so wish I felt your confidence...however, in the meantime, I always click you name for an "upper." Thank you.

fonta

Did you read the second part of Final Victory is Certain?

I sent you a link I think but here it is anyway:

http://www.dailypaul.com/245856/final-victory-is-certain-par...

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

Yes, I Did

....and I bookmarked it as there are so many things in your posts that send me all over the internet as they spark my curiosity!

I am going to read it again before responding. I most definitely believe 100% in your "good will eventually overcome evil" conviction. Plus, although I am a bit unconventional in my personal theology, I believe (along with you?) that there was indeed a War in Heaven and the victory is already ours. It is just being played out in this time/space realm. "Final Victory is Certain"...I guess my question is more "when" than "if".

I am not so sure about the prophecy and numerology part; however, I am very teachable and feel certain I am wrong about many things.

Will read and respond. Thank you for your reply and, again, all of your sharing and posts.

fonta

Consequences of a Mid-East Withdraw?

Save US taxpayers a trillion a year.

Prevents any more completely needless deaths/injuries to US military members over there.

Prevents any more completely needless killing of people in their own country by our military members.

And anyone that thinks Iran is a global threat(with or without nukes) is probably too stupid to be reasoned with and probably just likes the thought of killing brown people in their own homes/country.

That Statement

Your statement about "anyone that thinks Iran is a global threat" and calling them stupid doesn't seem to be the best way to identify these people.

I was one of these people, and it's not because I was stupid. The only information I had been exposed to pointed to those countries being threats. And I don't know anyone who "just likes the thought of killing brown people," but I know a lot of people who fear for their lives if we do not go try to take out terrorist organizations.

Now, you and I both do not agree with that idea, of course! But I would suggest that calling them stupid will not accomplish the results we desire. Educating them will.

www.standardexcellence.net - Bringing you Oklahoma, Texas and national news & opinion that matters for liberty.

If you live in America and

If you live in America and your fear for your life of terrorism then I guarantee you're a moron(or you benefit in some way from the military industrial complex). There are a million everyday things more likely to kill you to be worried about. Sending our troops to go kill people in their own countries for no reason sure as heck doesn't help prevent terrorism.

Educate them? They don't want to be educated! They want to wallow in their ignorance while chanting USA USA USA. They get all the education they need from the tel-lies-vision.

I call them 'stupid' because I want to inflame them. I want them to show me why they think it's important to waste my tax dollars killing other people in their own countries for no reason. If these idiots want to war with Iran then they can head over there on their own dime and have at it, but that won't happen because most people that clamor for war are just armchair pussies that want someone else to do their dirty work for them.

I have studied Iran for years and I have yet to hear anyone make a reasonable argument as to why any American should fear them. Iran has not aggressively attacked another nation in hundreds of years while we've invaded and occupied 2 of Iran's largest neighbors in the last 10 years! I just don't get it.....

Agreement

I defer to my previous statement, and reiterate that I agree with you that "they" are wrong.

www.standardexcellence.net - Bringing you Oklahoma, Texas and national news & opinion that matters for liberty.

Any country

knows that nuclear weapons are a mutually assured destruction. Iran would never use a nuke for they know their country would never survive the retaliation. Possessing nuclear power is not about blowing the world up, it is a deterrent for other countries so they will not invade / blow up your country. Would we here in the good ol USA feel comfortable if we had no nukes, and china had plenty? Also, how can one say “We want the world to emulate the usa,” while at the same time condemning other countries for emulating our technology? If it is so bad for Iran to have nukes, isn’t it equally as bad for the usa to have them? Don’t be a hypocrite. If it is bad for Iran to have them, certainly one must agree that the usa having them too is bad. However, "consequences of ending all our foreign "peace keeping" wars" is a very Orwellian statement. Peace and War are two opposites. There is no peace in war. War is HELL. What will happen in the middle East? Well the people in the middle east will be responsible for their future. We defend our constitution, not some desert 6,000 miles away.

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” – Dresden James

Bugs in the machine's picture

Couldn't have responded

Couldn't have responded better myself!

By claiming there is no conspiracy, you prove to those who believe in the conspiracy that you are part of the conspiracy.

Part of the misconception...

is that everyone besides the Israelis in the Middle East are primitive beasts with no ability to reason. You would think they were over there communicating by grunts.

In reality, the people that I have met from the Middle East during my time in graduate school are all good people. They seem to be rather normal. They have families, like certain music, have senses of humor, and have hobbies. Too many times we over-associate the citizens of other nations with the actions of their governments. Does the U.S. federal government represent you?

IMHO, this is what would happen, if we were to pull out of the Middle East immediately.

In Afghanistan, earlier polls of the citizens suggest that a majority of them - if I remember correctly over 70% - want the government to reconcile with the Taliban. The U.S. has resisted. Upon withdrawal, I believe the Taliban may have an influence in the country again.

However, the motivation of the Taliban, I presume, to go against the U.S. probably had something to do with the fact that the U.S. and Russia had been using the country as a mutual war zone since the 1970's. Without occupation, I think the motivation to harm the U.S. would diminish in a short time as attention turned toward the recovery their war-mangled country.

As far as Iran goes, I don't think they want to go to war with the U.S. They have seen what happens to disliked governments when they don't possess nuclear weapons - Libya for example.

Here's Santorum admitting Iran's intentions IF they are building a weapon - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRW30b_51KY

There is one major consequence the U.S. will face when it withdraws from the Middle East. The fiat monetary system will have to be ended. One of the major reasons the U.S. is there in the first place is that those countries have quit accepting the dollar for oil. They do accept gold.

This is a fly in the ointment for the monetary system the U.S. currently has.