13 votes

Rumors of Romney paying no taxes appear on Fox News

very briefly.

Fox News are screwing things up as well lol.

https://twitter.com/Ian56789/status/231356589435666432/photo/1

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I think this is bogus

Anonymous Hacks IRS Database and publishes Romney Tax Returns

http://usahitman.com/ahidprtr/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_med...

"Its easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."
Mark Twain

On one hand, rule of law is

On one hand, rule of law is important. Just because one doesn't like taxes, one cannot forgive Romney for breaking the law. Otherwise, the law is meaningless.

Also, Ron Paul talks about how we need to return to the time of the founders, where we collected revenue through export taxes and fees. Thing is, we've mostly eliminated those taxes; if we taxed at the level of the founders we'd have about 600 billion from in revenue; if we taxed at the level they did in 1820, we'd have about 1.1 trillion.

The fact that we've shifted the burden as an income tax just means the revenue has to come from there.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

Jon Stewart on Reid accusation

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-august-1-2012/you--har...

When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.
~ John Muir

What does Ron Paul think

What does Ron Paul think about Mitt Romney being part of the half of Americans who don't pay income tax?

"We're half way there."
-Ron Paul

Can we stay focused on the real issues and not get caught up in Rachel Maddow's democratic talking points?

The REAL issue is to get Ron Paul elected

To do that Romney needs to be discredited.
It means making GOP delegates have second thoughts about nominating him.
I will use any information to do that.
To win political elections you have to sometimes play some political games.
That does not mean demeaning yourself, it does mean pointing out your opponents faults.
It does not mean calling your main opposition a "nice guy". Romney is anything BUT a nice guy.
There has been far too much sucking up to Romney, when right from the beginning he was the ONLY threat.
There has been far too much sucking up to the RNC.

The Ron Paul campaign has NOT run a political campaign.
Ron Paul has not done himself any favors in getting to a better position in Tampa.
The Ron Paul campaign has not run a practical campaign to appeal to ordinary middle class voters - like most of the Romney delegates in Tampa.
I know it will be very difficult to stop Romney in Tampa. But it is not an impossible task if we are practical and not idealistic.

All this talk about the future and talking minor Libertarian technicalities gets us nowhere.

Where the HELL do you think America will be by 2016?
After the European tsunami of economic woes hits.
When the DHS has the 450m hollow point bullets and the 35m rounds of .323 they have ordered.
When there are riots on the streets of major cities due to extreme economic hardship and massive unemployment - think 50% youth unemployment, 30% not 20% unemployment.
When the President enforces the E.O's for Martial Law and comms control.
When the talk is of the USD losing it's reserve status due to unsustainable debts.

P.S.
I am in favor of ending the IRS too.
The only way to make that happen is to get Ron Paul elected not Romney.

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."

Great.

However, the current laws state that we all have to pay every red cent of every ridiculous tax or else. If it's true that Willard didn't pay any taxes at all for a decade, that's a crime that would destroy his campaign, making it a LOT easier for us to nominate Paul. We should be celebrating this tax returns drama, it can only help our cause.

I don't play, I commission the league.

Two words: Charitable

Two words: Charitable contributions. Read my post below. Pandering over something like this never helps out cause. It will only discredit our cause. Liberty is about private profits, private losses, and being able to set out your profits as you see fit. Yapping about a private business man not paying any taxes fits no where in our message. I think Ron Paul would agree.

Actually, Willard's tax drama does somewhat fit in.

We're supposed to be against Washington corruption and hypocrisy, right? Well, the fact that Willard loved to propose tax hikes while governor of Massachusetts but now refuses to prove whether or not he actually pays the "fair share" he expects his constituents to pay typifies exactly the kind of arrogant career-politican attitude that we're trying to remove from power.

Regardless, the benefit of Willard's tax returns drama doesn't impact our message - it helps strategically instead pretty much no matter what. By dragging out this drama further, Willard looks weak and also appears to be hiding something. If he releases the full tax returns and it turns out that he's been committing all sorts of felonies, then he pretty much has to drop out. Either way, it makes Willard look extremely unelectable right before the convention.

I don't play, I commission the league.

Yes it is extremely

Yes it is extremely hypocritical. But this movement has never been about scoring cheap political points, and neither has Ron Paul. This movement has been about changing the attitude of our country and the course of our history. Bickering over Mitt Romney's tax returns accomplishes neither.

Yeah...

I don't know about you, but I'd like to see Paul get nominated. If it takes the Democrats scoring cheap political points to destroy Willard's campaign right in time for the convention, who am I to complain? Obama's basically campaigning for us and we don't even have to pay for it.

I don't play, I commission the league.

Let the political pundits

Let the political pundits worry about that then. We should stay focused on the source of all these things you decry: a corrupt government system. If you don't want people hiding money to avoid taxes, lower taxes and spending so they won't need to, then they will keep their money here and grow our economy. If you don't want businessmen making backroom deals with the FDIC, get rid of the FDIC. All of these issues would be resolved with sound money that could not be printed on a whim. You should read "The Task Confronting Libertarians" by the great Henry Hazlitt. He spells it out brilliantly: the money issue is the most important argument for us to win because it would make most of the problems created by government disappear.

While what you say is true,

While what you say is true, the tax returns are not a minor issue. This is about integrity and integrity is a must have for any presidential nominee.

You are basically advocating to focus our efforts on changing the system and changing attitudes. Demonstrating the corruption on the highest level can help kick start that sentiment.

I never understood why it is

I never understood why it is immoral to want to keep your own money you worked hard for. We still don't know whether or not he even paid taxes, there is no evidence at all except for Harry Reid shooting his mouth off, if everything Harry Reid said were true, Obamacare would be a good idea. Even if he didn't pay taxes, he could have done so legally, by donating a large amount of money to charity and getting write-offs. To quote Brian Wilson: "If Romney is a felon, why doesn't Obama's Justice Department stop running guns to Mexico and arrest him?"

If you want to stand for integrity, how about the integrity of innocent until proven guilty, what about a right to privacy? What about the hypocrisy of calling for someone to produce tax returns with no evidence of wrong doing while you would cry foul of anyone asking you to do the same thing?

Ron Paul didn't release his tax returns, what would you say if Harry Reid made these claims about the good doctor?

Also...

if Harry Reid accused Ron of not paying taxes, I'd want him to release his tax returns and expose Reid as a lying fool. Continuing to dodge the tax returns just makes Reid's sources look more and more credible.

I don't play, I commission the league.

He was asked if he would

He was asked if he would release his tax returns during a primary debate and he said he would not be doing so. I heard not one person on this website clamor for Ron Paul to release his tax returns. Therefore, per the golden rule, I see no reason to clamor for Mitt Romney to unless criminal charges are filed, then the courts will work.

Nothing but false dilemmas and red herrings from you.

Believe it or not, we don't have to choose between advocating for change and criticizing Willard. We can and will do both.

I don't play, I commission the league.

Real issues - End the FED and get rid of

the IRS - Half don’t pay? It needs to be all.

I’m with Ron Paul – End the FED and get rid of the IRS.

But after saying that, do the ones that hide money from the IRS receive a tax amnesty like the super rich Mittens may have?

Mitt is showing how out of touch he is with most hard working Americans who have to pay taxes when he says all he needs to show is his last year’s tax return to show what he is all about. Just like Obama with his BC controversy, Mitt not showing his returns makes him look like he has something to hide. Real issue or not -

Come on Mitt go ahead satisfy our interest and show the 20 years you supposedly showed McCain and after seeing the returns Macnasty decided no way and picked Palin instead.

I could disagree any more

I could disagree any more with the second half of your post. Peter Schiff hits it on the head: Mitt Romney helped the economy more by not paying taxes. He could have donated so much to charity that he was required to pay no taxes due to write offs. Not to mention, by having foreign bank accounts, there was less money to be given to big banks to finance our wars overseas and our welfare state at home. Also, Mitt out of touch? This man made his wealth in the private sector, unlike Obama and Harry Reid who have done nothing but be government freeloaders for their entire lives.

We all would be better off if we followed the golden rule: Treat others how you want to be treated, and quit lambasting Mitt Romney for his success and wealth. Let's focus on ourselves and quit worrying about this asinine topic. It is a waste of time. The bottom line is, why is this even an issue? It is because of our bloated Federal Government that spends more than it takes in, the middle class suffers from this. So by way of spending and inflation, the middle class disappears and now we all want to blame those who are successful because of our tough times and claim they are "out of touch". Sounds like Chris Matthews and Rachel Maddow to me.

How exactly did Willard help the economy again?

Was it through the companies he bought largely with government crony $$$ and then destroyed, laying off everyone in the process? Or was it through the few "private sector" jobs he "created" with taxpayer subsidies and federal loans? Or maybe it was all the punitive tax hikes he proposed while governor of Massachusetts?

I don't play, I commission the league.

I'll tell you one thing

The economies of the major media outlets are going to be flush from Tricky Mitts advertising.

If not us than who?

"Anyone who thinks

"Anyone who thinks restructuring a company is bad doesn't understand the market. If you don't restructure a failing company, and if some people don't lose their jobs, everyone will lose their job."

-Ron Paul

News flash, we all use government crony money. We don't have a choice. It's called legal tender laws.

What about wrecking a company

that had already been restructured, was making good profits and moving towards market leading status?

See KB toys

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."

Bain Capital was a private

Bain Capital was a private company. What a private business man does with his business is only subject to oversight by what consumers purchase from the company. I highly doubt Mitt Romney would have "wrecked" a profitable company unless it helped him make more money from that company. Shutting down profitable companies doesn't make sense just to do it. That argument holds about as much water in my mind as saying oil companies benefit from spills.

Bain also owned a competitor

They mismanaged KB Toys like they mismanaged a lot of other companies. They still took their fees.
Some companies they didn't mismanage.
You know what Management Consultants are like, or perhaps you don't.
I have had plenty of dealings with them.
They don't know their ass from their elbow most of them.
Spout a lot of jargon and management speak and get paid a fortune per day. My spiel and ability to lie with a straight face (e.g. dressing up and presenting basic common sense as genius revelation) was never good enough for that business :)

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."

If you dislike Bain, it is

If you dislike Bain, it is easy to Google the companies they own and not shop at those places. I still find no reason to focus energies on Romney's tax returns. Wanting to keep your own money from the hands of our nanny state just doesn't seem all that evil to me.

However...

every business owner doesn't get special taxpayer subsidies or get to cut backroom deals with the FDIC and state governors every time their business is declining. The free market is about businesses competing on their own merit, not suckling at the government teat and wasting taxpayer money.

I don't play, I commission the league.

But you can't blame someone

But you can't blame someone like that of using the system anymore than you can blame a bear for crapping in the woods. People are creatures of self survival and they are going to use the tools at their disposal. The way to stop this is a main point of our movement: Changing the system. Repealing FDIC, ending the Fed, sound money. Any one of these changes would make all this what it should already be: a non issue.

I can and will...

blame someone for using government cronyism and taxpayer money to get ahead. I find that morally reprehensible and against free-market and libertarian principles. Willard's subsidies and backroom deals are exactly the kind of government intervention that we cannot have in a true free market system.

Yes, we need to change the system - but that doesn't make it okay to game the system we have and make average Americans foot the bill.

I don't play, I commission the league.

It is a waste of time. You

It is a waste of time. You might as well get mad at wet streets for rain. Our focus is best on the reasons these things happen, not that they happen.

We can't focus on both?

Yes, there are plenty of reasons why a select few elite businessmen are allowed to pull the crap that Willard pulled at Bain, and those need to be addressed. But at the same time, the actual actions are still wrong and need to be exposed and criticized for the sake of maintaining a true free market system.

I don't play, I commission the league.