-26 votes

PROOF: God (Vespasian) Himself Admits in the Scriptures to Having a "Human Father That Disciplined Him"

Since my other post got down voted and moved to "Off Topic", I'm making my case again. Now lets see who can rebut this. As you'll see by the time you finish reading this post, "God" himself has admitted over 2,000 years ago to having a "Human Father Who Disciplined Him":

Here's my original post that got swept away to "Off Topic". Is a Roman Conspiracy to Create Jesus Christ really "Off Topic"?

The Roman Conspiracy to Create Jesus Christ

Take your fingers out of your ears, and open thou eyes.

Hebrews 3:8 Warning Against Unbelief

"Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the desert"

Translation: Now that you see I am "God", do not harden your hearts (and minds) against me, like you "DID" during the rebellion. As in, I God and my Son Jesus Christ (Titus) conquered you all; you were once rebellious sinners, do not let that happen again.

"Did" is past tense people; it already happened.

Now onto another:

Hebrews 3:16

"Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt?"

Translation: Aren't all of those sinners who rebelled against us in this battle, the same sinners who were led out of Egypt by Moses?

Again: It already happened.

And here's more:

Hebrews 9:12

"He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption"

Translation: Titus did not enter the Kingdom of Heaven (the new Jerusalem they had just conquered) by giving the blood sacrifices of goats and calves like the rest of you; he entered by the shedding of his own blood in the battle; he led the way, therefor is entitled to eternal redemption.

Next:

Hebrews 13:17

"Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you

Translation: Obey your new leaders and submit to their authority; they must account for you at all times, if you fail to obey them and make their lives difficult, you will surely pay.

Next:

2 John: 7

"Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the anti-christ"

Translation: The Jews who fled before and during the battle that did not believe that Vespasian was God and his Son Titus was our Lord Jesus Christ, are still out there in the world. Those such persons are considered to be Anti-Christs; non believers; they are against Titus; do not believe he is the Christ Jesus; they are "anti-Titus", therefor to be considered "anti-Christs".

I can go on and on and on and Onnnnnnnn. Once you realize the ministry campaign of the Jesus the Flavian's created is in sequence and dependent upon the military campaign of Titus (study the times and locations of both); you will see what actually happened. They simply back dated the Scriptures 40 years so that Titus was the one who fulfilled all the prophecies the "character Jesus" spoke of.

They killed two birds with one stone: They wrote in the Scriptures that 40 years ago their "Jesus Christ" who walked the earth prophesying of this great day Heaven would be restored on earth, was not the actual messiah; but an impostor; the wannabe messiah. It is apparent that he was not the messiah Jesus, because he was slain and hanged on a Cross for all the world to see (although no one from that generation was actually there to see the event take place); that his father "God" he spoke of was not some eye in the sky; it was actually Vespasian; and the REAL messiah was now proven to the world to be Titus "Jesus Christ". Titus is the one who opened the gates to heaven (Jerusalem); Titus is the one who commanded the armies circle Jerusalem; Titus is the one who razed the Temple; Titus is the one who cast the Devil (the General who was the leader of the opposition; the HEAD of the non-believers; the MAIN Anti-Christ himself) into the pits of hell (the river burning with ashes from wood and rubble from the 47 days of war).

It was Titus who fulfilled all the prophecies this "fake messiah" spoke of 40 years earlier; it was Vespasian who took the throne as God, and his Son of man Titus aka Jesus Christ was the sword swinging warrior that made it all happen under his command.

If you study the Arch of Titus, you can see that the Scriptures are the literary version of the historic monument.

Titus fulfilled the prophecies the "fake Jesus" spoke of, therefor he MUST be the real Christ Jesus, not the one that supposedly hung on a cross 40 years earlier.

Lets go all the way back to Genesis 1:26 shall we?

"Then God said let us make man in our image, in our likeness and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the live-stock, over the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground"

Question: Who is "us" and "our"? Could that be Vespasian speaking? Telling his sons and others that we will make man in our image (Romans), and he will RULE over the earth?

Catholic = Universal

Now onto :27

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them"

Now onto :28

"God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground"

Pause: In verse 27, God created man ... In verse 28, he blessed them and said to them ...

So if God already created man; already blessed them instructed them to be fruitful and increase in numbers, then why in Genesis 2:5 under Adam and Eve, it says:

"there was no man to work the ground" and in 2:7 it goes on to say:

"the Lord God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and then man became a living being"

But I thought he had already created man?

Look, the Flavian's had to stop the militant-messianic Jewish movement of the day. Their God or "messiah" was David; the David that defeated Goliath. He was a warrior; a killer; he took the head off of David, and was coming to take the head off Caesar(s). The Flavian's had to 'high-jack' the Torah and the information in the Dead Sea Scrolls; the Old Testament, and twist it up; reword it and lead the text of the Old into the text of the New Testament. Nero did not like this movement of disobedient Jews to the Roman Empire and called upon Vespasian to quash it. He brought his son Titus and did just that.

The engravings on the Arch of Titus show him bringing back a copy of the Torah to the City of Rome along with the trumpets used to call the Jews to prayer; the golden lamp, etc. They used the wealth they had stolen to build the famous "Colosseum".

And again, the Million Dollar Question that everyone on this board continues to sidestep; continues to bury their heads in the sand and avoid it like the plague:

Can a REAL God have a Human Father?

Excerpt from the passage "God Disciplines His Son(s)"

NOW HERE'S THE PUNCHLINE PEOPLE!

Further down the passage in Hebrews 12:9 God (Vespasian) says:

"Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us, and we respect them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live! Our fathers disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, that we may share in his holiness"

Here Vespasian is stating "we have all had human fathers who disciplined us", but now that I am the true living God of Heaven (the new Jerusalem), I will discipline you for your good, so that you may share in my holiness.

Then in Hebrews 3:12 prior to that he even states:

"See to it brothers that none of you has a sinful unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God"

Do you see the Vanity?

The Million Dollar Question: Did or does a REAL God have a human father?

This is the beauty of this statement: I didn't say that; you didn't say that; Joe Atwill didn't say that; no other internet guru or biblical scholar said that; Fred Flintstone or Robert Price didn't say that.

Forget any other arguments from anyone else, and rebut the words of God Himself as written in Hebrews 12:9 above.

Who dares to rebut the words of "God" himself?

This is not Atwill's argument; it is MINE. I have never heard it brought up before (God Punishes His Sons), that God (Vespasian) admitted to having a Human Father Who Disciplined Him. If someone has brought it up before, please post it in the comment section below to correct me.

Again: Who on this board dares to question the Word Of God Himself when he states plainly and clearly in the Scriptures that he himself at one time had a Human Father That Disciplined Him?

Check Mate.

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Ohhh...

STFU

http://www.jbs.org/
Semper Fortis

Okay, this goes beyond...

...apparent silliness into outright dishonesty. All you're doing is sowing division with your arrogantly-worded posts, and now you're resorting to lying. You should be far above this, sir/madam. Do I take issue with you presenting the theory? No. I take issue with your very clear aim in the way you present this - to divide and antagonize entire chunks of the DP's membership, and to alienate Christians, and possibly Jews (as explained in my next-to-last paragraph of this post).

Regarding Hebrews 12:9, that is a human being writing as a human being to other human beings. Was the author inspired? Certainly. But he/she (we don't know who the author was, though there are several possibilities) was not writing as if they were God. To claim that God is saying that is absolutely lying. How do I know it's lying and not ignorance? Because it's fairly obvious that you're hardly an ignorant person. The difference, of course, is that ignorance is understandable, and dishonestly is shameful.

Regarding Genesis, I would assume that someone like you, who is apparently intelligent, would realize that this is a very common literary device. Genesis 1 = general story of creation. Then it "restarts" to go into more detail. This is a common objection that seems impressive but has literally no substance. Why, then, do you treat it as if it's some new revelation?

Regarding your remaining claim regarding Genesis, this is pretty clearly regarding the Trinity, that is, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Is it explicit? No, but the "us" makes it pretty clear, and if anything, serves as further evidence for Christianity.

Also, you're claiming that Rome wrote one of the books that is the foundation of the Jewish religion. Said religion has been around for far longer than Rome was. This is arguably the most blatant flaw in your entire argument, and is outrageously offensive towards those of the Jewish religion.

Please, The South, if you want to present your theories, please present it even-handedly, without insinuating that everyone else is a moron. These kinds of thing serve no purpose other than to sow division among liberty-lovers and disturb potential new members.

the south

if we use your logic, then God "recreated" in Genesis 5:1-2.

You've never heard of a writer repeating what happened?

also, one thing that has puzzled me is the land of Nod that Cain got sent to. Nothing prior to Genesis 4 on God creating any other humans than the 2, who then begat 2 more. who lived in Nod?

Jackson County Georgia

War is an instrument entirely inefficient toward redressing wrong; and multiplies, instead of indemnifying losses.
Thomas Jefferson

I'll humor you

Granted this isn't the right forum for this, as others have already commented. That being said, your claiming that Hebrews 12:9 are the words of God from himself. That doesn't appear to be accurate, looks like either Paul, or Peter or who knows wrote those words: http://www.gotquestions.org/author-Hebrews.html

Any ways, you won't get much debate on here for topics like this, I suggest a different website to debate people on this issue. Most of us simply don't care about things of this nature, myself included.

Oh dear, you guys again.

Oh dear, you guys again. You're on the wrong site, this is meant to be a libertarian conservative forum dedicated to Southern Baptist Ron Paul. This is where you should be:
http://www.atheistforums.com/

There you can say whatever you want about religion and everyone will just nod and agree.

There is no point coming here and preaching, that's not what this site is for. And yes, I'd say the same to an Evangelical Christian if he/she tried the same thing.

Support Rand, Amash & other liberty candidates? Check out: http://www.LibertyConservatives.com/

to be fair, this guy is

to be fair, this guy is clearly not an atheist.

He's citing the bible (OT) as historical fact!

Making a second reply just as an aside

I posted further down in a different reply chain but I'm doing a second post just to shut down further stupidity. Most of the verses are from Hebrews and I've responded to those already, however, there's this whole idea of Titus as Jesus that fails on a ton of levels, either through lack of historical knowledge or about the incredibly vast amount of prophecy one would have to fulfill to be the Messiah. There's one bit i specifically have to reply to, and I quote, "Titus fulfilled the prophecies the "fake Jesus" spoke of, therefor he MUST be the real Christ Jesus, not the one that supposedly hung on a cross 40 years earlier." Now let's just think about that for a moment shall we? Supposedly, by your words, Titus fulfilled all the prophecies concerning the messiah. All of them. All 300+ prophecies. Including the one about being crucified. Or his own about rising from the dead, or maybe the very specific lineage he had to have, or maybe being born in Bethlehem? No? Titus never did any of those things? Okay then, how about being able to give sight to the blind? How about being betrayed and being given over to be killed for thirty pieces of silver? Did Titus ever heal someone's vision or have that happen to him? Did he base himself in Galilee and bring teachings to people? Did he ride into Jerusalem on a colt? Was he forsaken by those under him? Was he beaten and bruised without retribution?
Mind you all these prophecies were written even before Alexander the Great came through and I've only brushed the surface, a number of prophecies specify things that had to have happened while crucified and still alive, being taunted, being given wine vinegar to drink while up there, the fact that he was crucified with nails as opposed to simply being tied up there as was the normal way of doing things. Some after he was dead and still hung up there. Custom of the time was to break the legs of the crucified to hasten their deaths, however they never broke his legs because he'd already died. The fact that blood and water came out when they pierced his side was prophecied. Mind you all the prophecies on the crucifixion were from a time where crucifixion hadn't even been invented yet. And after all this, you think that Titus fulfilled all the prophecies of the Messiah. That he somehow did all this and yet went on later to be Emperor despite the fact that he as Messiah had to die and be dead for at least three days. I know of absolutely no historical texts that suggest or even attempt to suggest such an absurd notion. If you have some, say Josephus or maybe some other well known historian, I'd love to know but until then I'd appreciate you to keep the baloney to a minimum and respect the rights of others to believe how they will. Stop bringing up such atrocious and blatantly false allegations to a site about freedom and liberty and leave the religion out of politics, please and thank you. I'm done with this topic. And I'm downvoting just so maybe this topic will vanish sooner.

Matthew 10:16

it's all a crock with many flaws

Checkmate touchdown homerun

This goes in the "yea hath

This goes in the "yea hath God said" file. (Genesis 3:1)

Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

John Adams

I agree Agnent86

Looks like "south" is headed "south" with hatred for the Living Word!

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

"The Million Dollar Question:

"The Million Dollar Question: Did or does a REAL God have a human father?"

Yes! Joseph.

Email me for my address, you can send a check.

Surely you are not serious!

Joseph was Jesus' earthly step father.
This is very, very clear in the Bible.
To deny this is to deny the virgin birth that is spoken of and how she was with child by the Holy Ghost.
Please tell us you are joshing!

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

Or it could just mean what it

Or it could just mean what it literally means in the bible.

Time to up your meds

This is nothing new. That is, a person who wants to make a name for himself by showing his lack of ability to read. Several ministries are based on such errors. A characteristic of this is that one must jump around the bible to prove his point. I suggest you up your medication and then learn the definition of context.

Be sure to clink on my link

Be sure to clink on my link and buy my DVD for one low payment of $10.
-TheSouth

Southern Agrarian

Did Titus...

...rise from the dead and appear to the many before the ascension?

There are all kinds of parallels between Christ and various 'types' of him in the Old Testament. This did not mean they were the Messiah. I'm sure you can do the same, going forward in time, finding parallels with others' lives. But there was only one Christ who was raised from the dead, and this wasn't Titus.

And I have no idea why you're saying Hebrews 12:9 is God speaking. This book was written by Paul or perhaps Apollos, and they aren't quoting God here.

I get a kick out some simple

I get a kick out some simple minded people who have a hate for others beliefs, who have not studied the bible, that come in with posts like this. Oh well atleast you are asking questions. Seek and you shall find. I just don't have the time to give answers right now.

Actually he is making false statements because he

apparently doesn't have reading comprehension skills. And he obviously has no desire for the truth otherwise he wouldn't be twisting what he has read so completely. He is not seeking and he will not regard your answers. "Cast not your pearls before swine."

I find this type of thing very fascinating..

Another Question:

Are you saying these verses are written as though God is saying them?
wouldn't it say "I deal with you as sons"?

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

The answer to your question is this

ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God!

Most people deny this truth and are therefore still subject unto damnation.

This is a very serious matter when we are talking about Almighty God who gave us His Word!

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

No.. i meant

are they are written in the first person from God..
but none of Paul's Letters ( just for an example) are written that way..
In other words.. it would seem he is taking the verse out of context

This is an excellent treatise;

with text used straight from the horse's mouth, not suppositions, that challenges conventional wisdom and forces truth seekers among us to call into question who or what actually STILL rules this world while at the same time illustrating for all who dare consider the enormously vast conspiracy under which most labor in ignorance.

It's been said that ignorance is not bliss; but is catastrophe delayed. One only has to bare witness to human suffering through the ages at the hands of our conspirators to realize just how true that is.

The onion has no core; ALL is illusion.

"The problem is not those in power, the problem is right between your ears." ~Larken Rose

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5FNDRgPOLs&list=FL4wdZ0dK3HG...

deacon's picture

the south

not sure how much to believe in todays
bibles,you see,there have been vast volumes removed
whole chapters and books
and names removed for whatever reason
in some bibles a name of lilith is mentioned
not a big mention,more of a passing
upon further research,it appears she was adams first wife
what was the purpose of the nycean creed? and who was it
who did this?
i sent you an email about this
deacon

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

How about the Earliest Complete Copy - Written in Greek?

Codex Sinaiticus, a manuscript of the Christian Bible written in the middle of the fourth century, contains the earliest complete copy of the Christian New Testament. The hand-written text is in Greek. The New Testament appears in the original vernacular language (koine) and the Old Testament in the version, known as the Septuagint, that was adopted by early Greek-speaking Christians. In the Codex, the text of both the Septuagint and the New Testament has been heavily annotated by a series of early correctors.

The significance of Codex Sinaiticus for the reconstruction of the Christian Bible's original text, the history of the Bible and the history of Western book-making is immense.

Home Page: http://www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/

Codex Sinaiticus is one of the most important books in the world. Handwritten well over 1600 years ago, the manuscript contains the Christian Bible in Greek, including the oldest complete copy of the New Testament. Its heavily corrected text is of outstanding importance for the history of the Bible and the manuscript – the oldest substantial book to survive Antiquity – is of supreme importance for the history of the book.

Now, would you like to see the text in it's most ancient; earliest version available to man?

Hebrews 12:

http://www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx?book=46&ch...

Can You Answer The Million Dollar Question?

"Did-Does-or-Can A Real God Have a Human Father?"

I know there are MANY self proclaimed "Biblical Scholars" on this site; surely one of them can explain and argue the Word Of God Himself, when he says:

Hebrews 12:9

"Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it ... "

"insert game show timer/music here"

PS: Just in case you want to give the argument "That above quote is out of a modern day Bible, so it's not valid"; here's the quote directly out of the oldest Greek version known to man:

"9 So, then, fathers of our flesh indeed have we had as chastisers, and we gave them reverence; shall we not much rather be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live?

10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us according to their pleasure, but he for our profit, that we may partake of his holiness."

Check Mate

Basic reading ability is needed

The speaker is not God, but an apostle of God. The apostle is using a metaphor (an example) of our earthly fathers and conveying a message that can be related to our heavenly Father. Just as Jesus used the metaphor of a hen gathering her chicks to describe how God wished to gather all Jerusalem but she refused. That does not make God a chicken. Basic reading ability is what you lack.

It Just Happened Again! These Mods are Sensoring Very

Important Information from the Masses.

I just proved Beyond the Shadow of a Doubt that:

God (Vespasian) Himself Admits in the Scriptures to having a Human Father that Disciplined Him.

I posted it in the Liberty Forum and in about 4.5 seconds it ended up in "Off Topic"?

Why does this Religious Thread get to stay in the Current Events Forum, but withing 4.5 seconds this unveiling of the Roman Conspiracy to Create Jesus Christ and proof that "God" himself admits to having a Human Father That Disciplined Him ends up in Off Topic ?????

http://www.dailypaul.com/130601/our-god-given-rights-where-i...

I'm moving my thread right now to "Current Events" and lets see what happens.

I guess and admission from "God" himself that he had a "Human Father That Disciplined Him", is not something the moderators of this site wish to be seen by the viewing public.

This is a comment I left from this thread posted here:

http://www.dailypaul.com/247514/im-starting-to-get-upset-at-...

They put all this rambling

They put all this rambling into off topic? Weird

And you feel that an admission from the supposed "GOD"

Himself, over 2,000 years ago that the entire Christian community has been praying to every since, had a Human Father That Disciplined Him is nothing more than a bunch of rambling?

You've got serious mental issues pal.

Disavow this claim and post with some black ink on white paper, or buzz off McFly.

I'd say this Revelation (no pun intended) is pretty damned significant and can change a lot of things in this world once the word gets out; not limited to the Roman Catholic Cult/Empire that's had a strong arm on the world for centuries.

When people find out their supposed "Jesus Christ" is none other than Titus Flavius and his Father "GOD" is non other than Vespasian Flavius, I believe it may have very serious repercussions

But of course, it's not near as important as all the unveiling and liberty minded posts you've made over the last 4 years and 1 week:

http://www.dailypaul.com/user/13869

What a waste of good oxygen.

Riiiight...

Funny Shit, And I thought we were through with the "Let's Attack Christianity and suppress their freedom to believe whatever by making it look like they're idiots for believing bullshit". And if you're actually wondering why this topic gets tossed to off-topic, maybe you should think more about the purpose of the site rather than how you can take things out of context. Let me put you back into context. You seem to be under the grand notion that God himself sat down with a quill and a papyrus and started writing all this shit down, when no one in Christianity who's worth listening to at all believes that. Hell even some of the crazy people don't even believe that. Hebrews was written by a person. A human. Someone who would have had a father.

Now before you go getting caught up in semantics, yes it's the word of God, no, he didn't write it first hand, he only... Well this will be complicated for some people but sometimes he'd dictate what to write, and other times he left it to the humans to write and he just inspired or moved them to write. Sometimes he just gave them a vision and they wrote afterwards what it was so they wouldn't forget. The book of Hebrews is not a book where God told them what to write nor was it meant to be read from his perspective. It was a letter, written from a human to humans about persecution, and a number of topics. It was never even conceived that God himself wrote it physically and so the idea that any verse involved can be used to prove God had a human father (other than Joseph who served as a father figure in Jesus' youth before he [Joseph] died later on and Jesus moved on to dealing more with his heavenly father) is laughable at best and inane ramblings at worst. I suggest you attempt to have realistic context next time you attempt to formulate an attack on Christianity this way. Just know I'll be here likely to shoot you down once you do. Best of luck.

Matthew 10:16

Right . God said that. Type

Right . God said that. Type fast, Darwinism is gonna get you