12 votes

Taxes: Ron Paul vs Gary Johnson

Ron Paul: Eliminate the IRS and replace it with NOTHING. Ron has said we could raise operating revenues from import taxes and/or very small sales tax.

Johnson: Replace the income tax with a 23% national sales tax.

23% every time I check out at at a store or make a purchase? So much for Liberty!

Another reason RON PAUL is still the best of the best!

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miket23's picture

I believe the 23% is

I believe the 23% is generated by determining what would be revenue neutral if all productivity taxes were eliminated (income, cap gains, dividends, corporate tax). And the idea is that because of the reduction in business costs, competition would drive down prices so that this added consumption tax wouldn't effect retail prices all that much (although 23% is awfully high).

Some of the conditions are (correct me if I'm wrong) - 1)it would allow for a monthly prebate up to the poverty level to make it somewhat progressive, 2)it would only be levied on final goods/services, 3) the 16th amendment would be repealed.

I think this is definitely better than any productivity-related taxes, but the rate is high and the more critical focus needs to be significant spending reductions.

Ron Paul was actually somewhat sympathetic to the idea because it would eliminate the income tax. Here's Paul talking about it on Meet the Press in '07 beginning around the 1:30 mark and specifically about the sales tax around the 2:30 mark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saDw03JXigA

Ron has actually warned that

Ron has actually warned that if we are not careful in our support of the fair tax we will end up with the fair tax and an income tax. Ron's position is to replace the income with the nothing, and instead rely on import taxes.

Ron Paul 2012 - It's Almost Here!

miket23's picture

Yes, I understand that. The

Yes, I understand that. The FairTax without a full repeal of the 16th amendment would be an unmitigated disaster. But if it were implemented such that all productivity taxes were eliminated, it would be better than what we have. His position is correct though. Taxes don't matter if spending and the role of federal govt isn't drastically reduced. That needs to be the focus.

the Theory is

The theory is that when you take out all of the hidden taxes in goods and services in the form of our current untenable tax system, the overall cost of goods and services will be significantly lower. Then when you replace our current tax system with The Fair Tax, it is pretty much a wash and you end up paying about the same in the end.

Everyone is entitled to the prebate regardless of income level...

It is a good idea if you really research it, but the 16th amendment must be repealed before enacting the Fairtax because you can't trust those thieves in Washington to stick with only one system.

I support it and Ron Paul said that he wasn't a co-sponsor but that he would probably support it.

Attention All Delegates! Break your "Binds" and vote for the Constitution in Tampa! Ron Paul 2012

I don't think you will find

I don't think you will find any small business owners who like this idea.

Ron Paul 2012 - It's Almost Here!

miket23's picture

Yes, everyone gets the

Yes, everyone gets the prebate; the prebate *amount* is at the poverty level so that anyone at or below effectively pays no taxes.

I've read a bit about it and would definitely welcome this as opposed to the income tax. Isn't there a provision in the fair tax proposal itself that the 16th amendment must be repealed? There's no way the fair tax makes any sense without a full repeal of the income tax.

Repeal is a provision

It is part of the legislation...no repeal of 16th amendment, no FairTax. But I think you would have to keep a close eye on the goons to not add some wonky language to screw us all.

Attention All Delegates! Break your "Binds" and vote for the Constitution in Tampa! Ron Paul 2012

Revenue neutral means the government confiscates the same amount

under the new system as with the old system.

Thanks, but no.

miket23's picture

I'm explaining it, not

I'm explaining it, not defending it. As I also said, tax policy doesn't make a lick of difference until we cut spending. Regardless, if implemented as revenue neutral, it's still better than government confiscating your income. Marginally better, but still better.

You can claim the libertarian

You can claim the libertarian philosophy all you want to garner the attention of liberty minded people.

The more you look into Johnson, the less palpable he becomes.

The Revolution Continues..


don't hold your breath for another ron paul to come along any time soon.
while we wait for that to happen can you update this thread with a comparison between gary, barry and romney's tax policy?

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Rand Paul 2016

Keep your eyes on this guy



November 6th 2012 I voted for Dr.Ron Paul
"We must remember, elections are short-term efforts. Revolutions are long-term projects." ~ Ron Paul

Go Back to the Drawing Board, Gary

...23% sales tax????? Well, that will sure kill retail and especially the smaller sellers.

As a small business operator...that would be the end of us. Period.



I'd have to agree. That would be the year I'd shut my business down. Jacking up checkout prices 23% across the board at once will kill it.

reedr3v's picture

I'm for separation of politicians and business,

in any way, shape, or form; they know nothing about it except how to wring money out of it until it's dead.