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New fossil skull from Africa reveals tangled roots at base of the human family tree

New fossil skull from Africa reveals tangled roots at base of the human family tree

By Brian Vastag, Wednesday, August 8, 10:39 AM

A two million-year-old flat-faced skull pulled from the sandstones of east Africa has shored up claims that at least three species of early humans once co-existed in an “evolutionary experiment” that saw an explosive increase in brain size paired with radically different faces, teeth, and jaws.

While the new partial skull and two newly found jawbones look radically different from modern humans, they match an enigmatic, nearly complete skull found 40 years ago that paleoanthropologists have long struggled to fit into the human family tree.

Together, the new finds and the puzzling skull describe a species of early humans clearly distinct from two others known from fossils from the same period, said Meave Leakey, the 70-year-old paleoanthropologist who led the team that discovered the fossils.

The “base of the human lineage was indeed diverse,” Leakey said from her longtime home at the Turkana Basin Institute in northern Kenya. Her colleagues made the finds near there.

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You say " If you were truly wise you would note that the creation account follows the same course as the evolutionary course"?

Evolution says that everything came from nothing!

The Bible, which is THE VERY WORD OF GOD, says that all things were created by the Word of God!
Now, how can you call that ignorant?
The ignorance the Bible speaks of is of those who profess their own wisdom ( which is foolishness ) and they deny the very Word of God!

As far as who are the chosen people of God...well, the Bible tells us who they are, they are those whom God has chosen and filled them with His Holy Spirit.
They are from every corner of the earth, from every tongue, tribe and nation.
They, are those who believe and follow Jesus Christ alone, as their very means of salvation. They set their hearts on things above and not on those things of the earth.

Those who oppose the truth of the Bible are those who are called "fools"

Put away all evil from you ( believing in anything but creation by the very Word of God is evil and against the very Word of God and is anti-Christ)


" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

You just made my point, thank

You just made my point, thank you. The Jews thought they were right too...

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" -Jebediah Springfield

Oh how you err!

The Jews denied Christ who was and is and never ceased to be God, and had Him crucified!
Not all the Jews, but most of them.

Jesus Christ Himself speaks of the foolishness of not only the Jews but all who deny the very Word of God!
This Scripture text below is from your post:

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made..."

This Scripture is God telling us that He created all things by His very Word and the creation speaks and testifies to that truth, but the fools willingly deny that and therefore they are without excuse and will be found GUILTY on that last day!

These are all those who follow evolution!

The Bible tells us who are His people!
His Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we are the sons of God.

Those who are NOT chosen of God, will NEVER accept the truth of the Bible but will fight against the truth. They are "willingly ignorant and without excuse"

You can criticize those of us who believe the Bible and the creation of all things by the very Word of God as the Bible tells us, it changes not the truth.


" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

I stand corrected!

And God could never have devised and used evolution as the means of creation, right? Yours is the only interpretation of the Bible account!

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" -Jebediah Springfield

You may have the last word here

I have only stated what God Himself tells us what is Truth and to share that Truth with the world.
The Bible tells us that God created man in His image.
The Bible also tells us that God created everything after its kind.

Evolution and Darwinism are a teaching from hell and deny the very existence and the truth of God and His Word and are abominable in His sight.
You can deny that too if you dare, but to your own peril I am sorry to say.

You may have the last word here with me on this but God will have the last word with all unbelievers on that last day!

What a fearful and terrible day that will be for them!

I have already stated in my post below why those who want to say that evolution is truth say what they say.

God has exaulted His Word above His very Name, and to deny the Creation account and to accept evolution is to say you thumb you nose at God and will be judged accordingly if not repented of.

They will all be judged and found guilty on that last day.

"In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth"
Genesis 1:1

"All the unbelieving will be cast into the lake of fire"
Revelation 21:8

My prayer is that by the grace of God, there will be some doubters, not knowing the things of God, who will by reading these kinds of posts, come to the truth of God's Word and become saved.


" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

I guess I can't really blame

I guess I can't really blame you, we've all had 2000 years of conditioning. I think that the "fear of God" makes us reluctant to question our belief system even though it is man's interpretation, not the Bible. Best wishes to you.

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" -Jebediah Springfield

Vote me down, but afraid to debate?

Oopsies! I must have said something that conflicted with someones preconceived ideas? Now I know how Copernicus must have felt when he tried to let people know the earth revolved around the sun. LOL

The Aquatic Mammal Theory

Evolutionists can be as closed minded as some of the creationists, its like a group think, where people defer to a higher authority and are afraid to question those who "know better". I personally have no conflict with creationism and those who see the progressive development in evolution. How God created man is way above my pay grade, however he did give me a scientific inquiring mind. Here is an excellent example of how evolutionists completely ignore facts, refuse to entertain an alternate theory and ostracize anyone who dares to disagree with the majorities savanna theory.
The evidence: controlled breathing (allows speech), only water birds and aquatic mammals can hold their breath under water. Bodies without fir & head hair, skin fat deposits, bipedal stance, sweating through the skin, swimming & diving abilities, a limited thirst instinct, inability to live very long without water. Add in the instinctive subconscious desire of humans to want to be near water. Looking at the facts, humans are an aquatic mammal.

I thought scientific theory

I thought scientific theory was that all life originated from the sea, unless you refer to a later stage life form. No matter, it still makes sense.

I do find it curious that Genesis 1:20 states, "And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life..."

Note how it states that God commanded the waters to bring forth life of itself? Again, a reference to a guided process!

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" -Jebediah Springfield

As does the big bang

Before it was proven different by Penzias and Wilson, the scientific community thought the universe had always existed. The thought it was instantaneously "created" was wholly rejected. Genesis says "God created the heavens and the earth", an occurrence distinct to time and place, so the big bang supports the description in Genesis. Rather than calling it the big bang, it should be referred to as, "the moment of creation".

Big Bang has one proof developed by Hubble

He made a big mistake.

He forgot that acceleration and gravity can both cause red shift.

Evidence that refutes Hubble's conclusion has been discovered when analyzing quasars that are next to large galactic masses.

Free includes debt-free!

I see where you're going and I like it

I would only state that the Big Bang was already titled as "The Beginning" like in the phrase "In the beginning". Other than that, agreed!

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" -Jebediah Springfield

Good to see...

...this has become a Creation/Evolution DEBATE!

It was a daring post on a political forum!

But, it did draw out the WHOLE concept of God being HIGHER than Caesar; and of course my original posts were SEVERELY DOWN-VOTED that only ALERTED the readers to the railroading/imprisonment of creation evangelist Kent Hovind who(like us) let's Americans KNOW they have enslaved/submitted themselves voluntarily to government in pagan idol worship through DECADES of re-education about the TRUE nature of Creator(and His attitudes about moral absolutes and FAKE religionists/hypocritical clergy; Matthew 23) AND these "laws" that serve the Federal Reserve System, not the punishment of evil-doers!

This debate has arisen on here several times since the DP started - and - once again, the over-arching point is a question of ORIGINS.

You can choose to believe whatever you want, and I DO NOT support a Christian theocracy; but I firmly believe that if you BELIEVE(by faith) that humans are descendents of monkeys over millions of years(which also came from a common ancestor like a banana or a pine cone); you have been severely DELUDED.

A theocracy, even a Muslim theocracy, is the government caving into CLEAR majority opinion; that humans believe they were CREATED by a Creator; they just twist the religion to justify the murder/war against humans who subscribe to another religion/god - which is clearly what this country is doing now!

America is clearly more Christian than anything else; our problem is the God of the Bible has been rendered a tyrant dictator by the Zionist-instructed clergy(we can cherry-pick the moral dictates of the Bible now, and DOUBT and QUESTION His Word; "ye hath God said?" and "ye shall not surely die" - which leads DIRECTLY to "ye shall be as gods") - and now - in order to perpetuate a never-ending state of war(for the purposes of population reduction/consolidation of natural resources), the subscribers/leaders of Talmudic Judaism(not a RACE of people) & non-biblical Christianity(fake Jesus) have aligned themselves as white Nazi's whose goal is simply world domination simply for (nothing more than) the LOVE of money(temporal/immediate pleasure) - and God is laughing at them(and He will JUDGE)!

Our original parent government(Great Britian) was likewise "Christian", and after the invention of the printing press; as people got their hands on personal copies of the Bible, they became bold enough to call their political leaders and their clergy HYPOCRITES while those two entities were married to each other! Simply put, they were persecuted and FLED here - started anew - and when the parent government began to re-fasten the chains (Patrick Henry), they resisted, fought back, and WON their independence!(because a RIGHTEOUS God aided their CAUSE)!

They did all of this because God is HIGHER than Caesar; that was their HEART attitude - NOT because evolution theory had not been thought of!

There is WISDOM in our founding - and WISDOM comes from the Creator; not from a one-cell thing in a puddle somewhere billions of years ago that said "I think I'll be two" and eventually EVOLVED into human eyesight!

Here is THE sole reason for teaching evolution

To believe the truth of creation spoken in the Bible, means that one must believe the Bible and that means there is accountability to Almighty God for each one of us!

Man in his sinful nature does not want to deal with that and so he comes up with this evolution NONSENSE!

However, the Bible says that the law of God is written in the very heart of man and therefore they are without excuse.

The FACT of there being a Divine Creator exists in the very creation itself. Just look around at how very orderly and complex everything in creation is, whether it be under a microscope, or through a telescope or simply through the naked eye, and then tell yourself that this all came from some "Big Bang"? Really now!

There is however a "Big Bang" in all of this, but it is not what began everything, but rather what will end everything, for it is written in 2 Peter Chapter 3:10

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a GREAT NOISE (emphasis added), and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."
There is your "Big Bang"

While you still have the breath of life in you, you can repent and call out to God for mercy and forgiveness of your sins, and pray that you may be washed in the blood of Christ before you perish.

That is the Good News of the Bible!

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~


God is a mere engineer? How droll.

Repent for using the curiosity that God gave us? Or the liberty given us to make mistakes. or the intelligence to realize that we make mistakes. Or the ability to ask for forgiveness in spite of mistakes.

That's the good news I recognized in the Bible born of personal experience.

How did God create all that for me? Dunno.

Why? Maybe God enjoys friends and takes pleasure in his creatures successes.

Free includes debt-free!


Who said that God was a mere engineer?
That is blasphemy!

God is omnipotent!
God is omnipresent!
God is omniscient!
God is Truth!
God is holy in all His works and righteous in all His ways!

Mistakes are mistakes! Sin is sin!

Sin is transgression of the law of God and we are ALL guilty!

Forgiveness of sin can ONLY be found through believing in Jesus Christ as Savior. To truly believe is the work of God Himself, and therefore there is a transformation of ones heart.
We must never make excuses for sin.
We must acknowledge them and repent of them.

Yes, the Good News is that Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners!
Who will believe?
How will they come to the truth?

"Faith commeth by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God."

May many believe on what God tells us in the Bible in that He alone created everything, and that on the last day He alone will destroy everything and create a new heaven and a new earth wherein no more sin will enter in.

Even so come Lord Jesus!

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

If I were you...

I would check out:


It's all about logic. chemicals just don't randomly form into complicated mathmatical groups. chemicals have no intelligence and can't figure out aerodynamics to make birds fly. these things did not just "invent" themselves. that is just plain stupid!

Label Jars, Not People!

Or maybe you value your intelligence too much.

Thous shall not make of me anything that is in the earth, under the earth of above the earth. I would include human intelligence as well as jealously, and power.

Although not permitted on public property, how many in the churches skip this Commandment? Forgotten along with Thou shall not kill.

Free includes debt-free!

another problem for evolution

...is the woodpecker. clever little bird figured out how to grow a cartillege-sponge-cushion IN IT'S HEAD, BEFORE EVOLVING INTO A WOODPECKER. yup those mysterious SUPER-SMART chemicals with NO BRAIN somehow realized that without it, the bird would get a concussion and brain damage using it's beak to drill holes in trees!

The giraffe is another problem for know-it-all's. without it's cushion, it's head would EXPLODE everytime it dipped down to drink!

your reply was to my reply which was a question on how an eyeball evolved...Funny, I don't remember bringing up church dogma.

this is about evolution being full of more holes than swiss chease!

Label Jars, Not People!

B.A., it is puzzling that you

B.A., it is puzzling that you seem to think that a woodpecker or a giraffe were created "as is" and have not changed one bit since life first appeared on Earth.

Are you seriously saying you believe this?


...change possible is the recombination of DNA already within a given creature. the DNA did not evolve. A species can't change into something else. But what you are saying is the above mentioned creatures underwent a drastic mutation and WERE SOMETHING ELSE before they became what they are now?

to believe that requires a greater leap of faith than to believe god designed them! If you can't see a remarkable design thats on you.

a pickup truck is less complicated than a bird or animal but I don't understand how you think a wheel can evolve into an f-150. These things were designed and somthing built them! or do you dispute that as well?

Label Jars, Not People!

More than any other person

More than any other person here, I ask you to read this: http://www.notjustatheory.com/

Why do you seek the living among the dead?

Life is from above not from below. No matter how men may strive to prove that life came from inanimate chemicals, no matter whether organic or inorganic, their efforts will always fail because life is a gift from another realm, from above.

The life we presently experience can best be described as a shadow of Life since the Source of Life while present in the earth realm to a degree is not yet present in fullness. This Source of Life sustains and supports all life on Earth but only for a limited period for each life form according to the predetermined instructions coded in the DNA of each species.

The highest life form on Earth is Man and he has the possibility of a direct connection with the Source of Life through his spirit. In most cases this possibility has not been realised. The Source of Life is the source of the light in man's mind which gives us the potential to reason and to understand who we are and why we exist here on Earth to some extent. In order to fully receive the knowledge of the Truth of our life, i.e. the plan and purpose of our existence here on Earth, we must receive a new dimension of life by reconnecting with the Source of Life i.e. from above. This enables us to learn of the Source of Life and to disconnect from the present shadow life. In other words the new access we have to Life brings death to our present shadow life.

Man is also part of the lower realm through his physical body and shares the destiny of all animal life inasmuch as he is mortal. His only possibility of realising his full potential is to reconnect with the Source of Life. This Source of Life actually entered the Earth realm 2,000 years ago as a human being whose advent had been carefully prepared for over a period of 3,895 years. His purpose was to demonstrate to mankind what our destiny is, the kind of race we are designed to become. He is the very first of that new creation who lived a perfect life to show us what a perfect human being is. In order to complete His mission to save humanity and to provide the means for each of us to finish our own personal journey He had to identify with Man through death which is the final end of all mortal men. He then overcame Death itself on our behalf and so reconnected us all to the Source of Life. Each one of us must now find our way to that point of reconnection that He has provided for us in order to finish our own personal journey back to our Father in heaven.

After He returned to the dimension of absolute sovereignty and power after His resurrection He sent His Spirit back to the Earth realm to maintain that connection that He had established. This means He is now here and is always available to anyone who desires to reconnect to the Source of Life. Many men and women have availed themselves of this opportunity over the past two thousand years as they have sensed His drawing power and realised that He was calling to them to return to Him. These have followed on to know Him in the fellowship of His suffering that He experienced on Earth and at the same time to experience the power of Life that enabled Him to overcome Death for all of us. His Name is the Lord Jesus Christ and to reconnect with Life we need only call on Him.

The time is now at hand when all those who have entered into Life and reached perfection in the past will be joined with those who are entering in and reaching perfection today and the Source of Life will be manifested in the Earth realm in an unprecedented overwhelming manifestation of power and glory in these "sons of God".

This is the time so long awaited by the whole creation. This is the time of the Restoration of All Things.

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

Not yet present in fullness.

What are we waiting for permission?

I cannot imagine that aiding and abetting Armeggedon is any different than eating the apple and becoming like gods judging good and evil.

Not bad enough that we lost Eden once, we want to do it again?

Free includes debt-free!

Not sure what you mean Paul.

Perhaps you have misunderstood what I am saying. In any event I am not sure what Armageddon has to do with what I have written or what I have said that suggests to you being disobedient to the will of God. Perhaps if you have a moment you could clarify what you mean. What you have said is somewhat cryptic.

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

Not sure what I meant.

I was thinking of this http://lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard298.html

Maybe I just slipped cog?

Free includes debt-free!

Yes, Marxism is a materialistic Messianism I believe.

That was my own conclusion in my early twenties when these questions were foremost in my thinking.

However I am now in my eighth decade of life and thirty five years in the Way so my focus and perspective have changed. Most of what we read and speak about in the world is the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. This is true whether the message is from the religious community or from the secular.

It is quite possible for me to say something that is the fruit of the Tree of Life and be understood as though I had spoken out of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. This has often happened to me and this is what has happened here. It is what I suspected but I wanted to clear it up and you have done so.

The mind of man is constantly being fed from the Tree of Life and converts it into the product of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil...Death. It is simply the nature of Reality for him to do so.

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 1:2 He was in the beginning with God. 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 1:4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 1:5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."

The mind of man is the darkness. Matthew 4:16..."the people who sit in darkness have seen a great light, and on those who sit in the region and shadow of death a light has dawned.”

Life, Light and Love are all words that describe the nature of God. Jesus makes Him known to us so that we do not ascribe to Him the dark nature of men. Men have not comprehended the Light of the plans of God for mankind and have communicated their misapprehensions through the means of religion leaving us with a distorted view of the One who created us.

If you read what I have written again bearing these things in mind perhaps the Light will shine on you too.

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

Rationality tells us there is

Rationality tells us there is no soul, no spirit and no mystical origin for humankind. We are living, thinking, creative, genetic, emotional, chemical, individual and oft-times irrational beings. We made meaning and purpose, because there would be none otherwise.

That sounds very existentialist.

I flirted with existentialism in my early twenties and even corresponded briefly with Jean Paul Sartre's mistress, Simone de Beauvoir, after reading her book of wartime reminiscences called The Mandarins.

However I couldn't shake the conviction that there was more to it, that even brilliant intellectuals like the French philosopher and his fellow existentialists had missed.

In fact the very existence of a need for meaning, acknowledged even by the existentialists in their assertion of its absence, suggests that there is indeed a purpose to be discovered. In much the same way as hunger indicates the existence of food and thirst points to the existence of water so any other innate need or desire indicates the existence of its object.

This desire for purpose results in the many objectives humanity has in the physical, soulical (mind, will emotions) and spiritual realms. There are those for whom their desire for purpose is satisfied in the physical or soulical realms while for some of us the desire for purpose can only be satisfied in the spiritual realm. There are many who practise religion for whom the soulical realm is sufficient to meet their need for meaning and over the centuries there have been many in the religious field whose desire for purpose has been satisfied in the merely physical sensual realm especially when religion was an all encompassing activity in society.

All of these different pursuits result in the composite tapestry of human life on Earth each strand of which is fulfilling some purpose of God at every point in time. The ultimate objective of our Creator is to have a personal relationship with each of us in the fullest meaning of the word personal which for most of us is at present in formation. What we term individuality is a very limited expression of this word and indeed will be discarded when the full personality that we have been designed to be comes into existence.

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

The interesting and beautiful

The interesting and beautiful thing about the human mind is the capacity to assign and interpret symbolism as a means to navigate and create meaning in this world (and possibly within our lifetime other "worlds"). The ever-present additional layer of meaning allows the individual to perform hugely complex tasks, often with a minimum of effort. I personally believe the roots of communication, economics, politics, philosophy, society and religion (all essentially high-level abstractions) are either survival or reproduction based. Our world is one created by humans, not spirits or gods, even though the echoes, influences and after-effects of people and ideas that came before us continue as a sort of survival memory.