-18 votes

What would happen if we opened the borders and granted amnesty?

A. The economy would thrive and we would get a lot more revenue
B. social security and medical costs would go up
C. Many Illegal workers would become legal and make more money causing more Americans to be hired.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Mexico should open its own borders...

with Guatemala. Talk about hypocrisy. Mexico wants the US to open its borders, grant amnesty, yada yada, but absolutely refuses to do the same with their neighbor to the south, Guatemala.

Mexico has the same problem with Guatemala as the US does with Mexico. "Turk err jerbs!" and such.

Not to mention the cartel problem that isn't going away until the US realizes that drug abuse cannot be a crime.

Simple Facts and Plain Arguments
A common sense take on politics and current events.

www.simplefactsplainarguments.com

We could celebrate the NWO

And global government's rendering America to just another slave state where the very rich are above the laws that are established for the human population they believe is a cancer that needs to be eliminated from THEIR planet.

In that vein...

how about Mexico doing the same? So much opportunity there for the free market to thrive (I am being a tad sarcastic given the rampant corruption that exists at every level).

If you go to Mexico and are an illegal alien THEY THROW YOU IN JAIL.

We have immigration laws...why can't they be obeyed?

You seem to think that the illegals are entirely altruistic in there coming here. I live in Upstate South Carolina - the nightly news has a steady stream of stories regarding illegals being arrested in this area for drug traficking not for working without proper paper-work to feed their families.

The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.
Ron Paul - The Revolution

Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms. Ron Paul

This is exactly what I think!

This is exactly what I think! Why is everyone always bending over backwards to accomodate foriegners on our soil when we have no reciprical aggreements to give rights for our citizens in their countries? My young child was born in another country and has no citizenship or rights in that country; she can't buy land, get a job, start a business, or stay past a visit in that country ever. But their citizens, once in our country can do all of that and more. How is this good for our people and the world?

Just like you mentioned, if Mexico and other countries were opened up to freedom and rights of our citizens, think of all the jobs for us if we brought infrastructure, technology, know-how, and services to areas in which they were lacking. Think of all the jobs and growth for their people if new companies and opportunities flourished in their areas. It would be a win win situation. But noooo, everyone is always focused on how we've got to be the magnanamous ones, the better host...never the other way around.

Its either all propaganda to get us to flood our system with 3rd worlders used to authoritarian control and to get rid of the rugged individualist mentality we historically had or it is sheer stupidity to think we could survive and be better off with an invasion of 3rd worlders.

RP says that Rome declined because of overextension of empire and debasement of money... one component of Rome's decline was the settlement of tribes into Roman territories that diluted the Roman social fabric and system. If you get enough people from another culture on your turf...your turf essentially becomes theirs through cultural - as their majority culture becomes the norm. The culture of 3rd worlders is acceptance and apathy to authoritarian rule; utter corruption in every level of society, business, and transactions; disrespect of the individual, etc. We desperately need to cling onto our heritage of individualism and self-responsibility rather than succumb to the collectivist authoritarian acceptance of 3rd worlders. I have not seen any evidence that the transplants from the last 20 years have assimilated to our social creed; rather they have imported their political and social creed. Along with the bleeding hearts they have radically changed states and federal policies.

That's TRUE

I LOVE Mexico, but really don't like how their government is being imported here.

Is this a joke?

In case you didn't know it, we have something called a welfare state here in the United States. That welfare state is a magnet to every third world polecat who's sorry to get a job. Obviously, not all immigrants come here to mooch off our system, but, far too many do and until we clean up the entitlement mess (probably sometime after 2030 after we've gone bankrupt), then we can start talking about having a loose border policy for people who want to actually come here and work and not mooch.

Open Borders?

900 teachers just got laid off from the Los Angeles Unified School District . They are $650,000 over their annual budget.

The following English teacher helps to explain one area that looms large over California 's educational crisis.
This English teacher has phrased it the best I've seen yet.

This should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican or Independent.

From a California school teacher - - -

"As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:
I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a large southern California high school which is designated a Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower socioeconomic and income levels.

Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell Gardens , Huntington Park , etc.. where these students are protesting, are also Title 1 schools.

Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten.
(OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least moderately overweight.
About 75% or more DO have cell phones.
The school also provides day care centers for theunwed teenage pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids.
(OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything; my budget was
already substantial. I ended up buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in America.
(OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students here in the country less than 3 months who raised so much hell with the female teachers, calling them"Putas"(whores)and throwing things,that the teachers were in tears.

Free medical, free education, free food, day care, etc, etc, etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled not only to be in this country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?

To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.

Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs, more crime,lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding, new diseases etc.,etc, etc. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.

Americans, We need to wake up. The guest worker program will be a disaster because we won't have the guts to enforce it. Does anyone in their right mind really think they will voluntarily leave and return?

It does, however, have everything to do with culture: A third-world culture that does not value education, that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses to assimilate, and anAmerican culture that has become so weak and worried about"political correctness " that we don't have the will to do anything about it.

If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to everyone you know including your Congressmen and Senators.

CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?

Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage.

Consumers don't want expensive produce.

Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs.

But the bottom line is cheap labor The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth, a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as "cheap labor."

Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an "earned income credit" of up to $3,200 free.

He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.

He qualifies for food stamps..

He qualifies for free (no deductible), no co-pay) health care.

His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.

He requires bilingual teachers and books.

He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.

If they are or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for SSI. Once qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicare. All of this is at (our) taxpayer's expense.

He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance.

Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material.

He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.

Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying their bills AND his.

The American taxpayers also pay for increased crime, graffiti and trash clean-up.

Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT! Wake up people!

THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES FOR EITHER PARTY. 'AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON'T DO AS THEY SAY, WE SHOULD REPLACE THEM AT ONCE!'

THIS HAS GOT TO BE PASSED ALONG TO AS MANY AS POSSIBLE OR WE WILL ALL GO DOWN THE DRAIN BECAUSE A FEW DON'T CARE.

SRC

It's obvious that it was

It's obvious that it was written by an English teacher and not an economics teacher.

how about getting some courage to address the medical issue

first, not just hop onto the open border stance because santa clause is always the easy way out

"B. social security and medical costs would go up"

you mean like "explode"? taxes would go way up. and if you don't issue taxes but let the spending explode, dollar is going to lose value and decrease living standard for everybody. job is the last thing you would get in that environment. great idea if you're trying to bring down the system. not so great if you don't have a plan B after the system collapses. that's why LP is retarded

Dunno but I'll tell you the "breakfast burrito"

is an ABOMINATION.

There are just a few simple rules that govern a perfect breakfast:

1. Do not serve hot eggs on a cold plate.

2. If served buttered, toast is to be stacked butter-side to butter-side, dry-side to dry-side.

3. Eggs, like the English language, is a matter of subtlety so learn the difference between sunny side up, over easy, over medium and over firm.

4. Everybody does "home fries" different but all might agree they belong on a separate portion of the plate.

If you want a bunch of pre-prepared ingredients mashed together into a soggy and texturesless tortilla SO BE IT. BUT NOT ME MY FRIENDS.

Consumer choice being among our last freedoms, I will die fighting with my mouth full of ham and cheese omelette and when they shoot me full of holes let me bleed fresh roasted Honduran coffee. And having just smeared my last half-slice with strawberry jam, with my last breath I will say "my toast, my toast, a kindgom for my toast".

There is nothing strange about having a bar of soap in your right pocket, it's just what's happening.

Oh you forgot

the part where they will be able to vote and then the liberals will have them vote for them so they can take our guns. Please do America a favor and NEVER run for office.

Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our Liberty. -Thomas Jefferson

I agree with you, and I do

I agree with you, and I do plan to run for office. Never said I was in favor of amnesty just wanted to get everyone else's opinion.

"Believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear." - Benjamin Franklin

That's fine

just had to rant for a little bit you know. I believe we should make it easier for foreigners to get work visas, and if we are to stop the war on drugs then the Mexican cartels will lose a lot of their power and money. People want to come here for a better life as our ancestors did, however my ancestor on my father's side was an illegal, just found out he came over on the Mayflower lol (how cool is that). What office do you plan on running for?

Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our Liberty. -Thomas Jefferson

I agree with you on all of

I agree with you on all of these points, and ending the war on drugs could solve so many problems. I plan to run for state senate.

"Believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear." - Benjamin Franklin

That's cool

I was thinking of running for office either City Council or House of Delegates in Virginia.

Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our Liberty. -Thomas Jefferson

reedr3v's picture

If we are talking open borders and amnesty,

surely those should apply to U.S. citizens who prefer to emigrate with amnesty for any taxation after leaving the country. Then amnesty for any U.S. resident who prefers to not pay taxes that fund vicious, immoral government programs.

I so hope you're not being

I so hope you're not being sarcastic!

reedr3v's picture

I am entirely serious, simply applying principles

consistently.

Anyone who finds any argument

Anyone who finds any argument against open borders and no immigration laws, doesn't understand the liberty. And I would characterize one as anti-libertarian.

Anarchism not Libertarianism

Anarchy is a subset of libertarianism; an extreme libertarianism. Constitutional libertarianism is a different product. You confuse the two concepts. Libertarianism works with a system. A system, whether a cell, nation, or planet, has a protective surface or border. Anarchists don't believe in borders. Try winning a race or even surviving in a boat with a leaky hull.

Things like budgets that conservatives sometimes care about and urban sprawl that liberals fret about are beyond management with open borders allowing the flow of anyone who thinks they can do better than back home until a negative worldwide equilibrium in the standard of living is a attained here.

Unlike anarchists, constitutional libertarians note that the Constitution delegates our elected representatives with powers to establish and protect borders and immigration whether or not the sitting President chooses to observe those laws or establish unequal enforcement of those laws.

"protect borders and

"protect borders and immigration"
That's protectionism. Empowering the state to control. You confuse nationalism or even chauvinism with libertarianism.

Ron Paul doesn't understand liberty and is anti-libertarian?

He used to hold this typical libertarian view as regards borders and immigration, but moved away from it years ago to support securing the borders and advocate immigration laws and no amnesty - given the situations we find ourselves in with our current national security (as a result of our foreign policy, etc.), welfare programs/abuse, and various other matters.

If those are resolved, well and good, but otherwise I have to agree with him - and disagree with you as I feel he and I both have fairly libertarian views and a love & understanding of liberty.

If our failed policies were addressed properly, though - I'd have to agree with a love of free movement and immigration. End the drug war, end our antagonistic foreign policy, properly resolve our entitlement systems...and maybe a few other things...and watch the border problem in large part fix itself.

I think you are mistaken, if

I think you are mistaken, if it comes to Ron Paul position and/or don't listen him carefully.
When he speaks about this isuues he speaks as a candidate for the government position he aspire to hold. So he promises to work in existing "set up" and laws. But, very often he mentions that he would work to educate people why immigration laws and borders are not beneficial to any nation.
at core he is libertarian for open borders, but he cannot run on this platform, before most people become educated enough about it.

At one time, and in different circumstances, yes.

As it stands now with our current issues now, though, no. Paul is all for legal immigrants, but he realizes our economic and security standpoint causes problems requiring border security and disallowing free movement at this time. It's not merely a political/education issue not allowing him to run his desired platform.

From the campaign's website:

"A MATTER OF NATIONAL SECURITY

A nation without borders is no nation at all.

It just doesn’t make sense to fight terrorists abroad while leaving our front door unlocked...

...Ron Paul opposes both of these schemes and believes they will only make illegal immigration and the problems associated with it worse...

...While the federal government neglects its constitutional responsibility to protect our borders, it continues to push mandates on the states to provide free education and medical care to illegal immigrants at a time when the states are drowning in debt. This must not be tolerated any longer...

COMMON SENSE REFORMS

If elected President, Ron Paul will work to implement the following common sense reforms:

* Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

* No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

* Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

* End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.

* Protect Lawful Immigrants – As President, Ron Paul will encourage legal immigration by streamlining the entry process without rewarding lawbreakers.

As long as our borders remain wide open, the security and safety of the American people are at stake.

As President, Ron Paul will address immigration by fighting for effective solutions that protect our nation, uphold the rule of law, and respect every American citizen’s civil liberties."

Here's one of his responses in 2007 on Meet the Press:
"And during that campaign I got into trouble with Libertarians because I said there may well be a time when immigration is like an invasion and we have to treat it differently. My approach to immigration is somewhat different than the others. Mine is you deal with it economically. We’re in worse shape now because we subsidize immigration. We give food stamps, Social Security, free medical care, free education and amnesty. So you subsidize it, and you have a mess. Conditions have changed. And I think this means that we should look at immigration differently. It’s an economic issue more than anything. If our economy was in good health, I don’t think there’d be an immigration problem. We’d be looking for workers and we would be very generous. "

i'm right. you are wrong.

i'm right. you are wrong.

Congratulations?

I'm having a hard time seeing how, exactly, but it doesn't matter a great deal to me one way or the other. Paul's statements and my own opinion on the matter seem to disagree with you, but if being right means that much, I'll give you this one.

Here's a shiny gold star! Have a great day.

I said that his election

I said that his election statements are his political agenda in the existing system, but not his core beliefs. And you still insiting on presenting statements (Political agenda within existing systems, you know ?!?!).
If it was up to him entirely, he would advocate open borders, because borders prevent movement both ways. Don't you get it? They are there to capture YOU, inside. I know, because I lived in the country with closed borders. So, cherish open borders, because you may need them one day. Just listen to the guy carefully.
And immigrants don't take jobs. Fraudulent banking, monetary system and taxing take jobs.
The bankers rerouted your attention to borders and immigration as the solution of problems, far from the real nature and causes.
Peace.

I actually agree with most of what you're saying

...and think we're just talking around each other. If you'll re-review what I've posted so far, my point isn't that Paul and I disagree with the view - it's that we both disagree with it *at the moment* due to some issues we're dealing with...of our own devising, willful or not.

You are certainly correct about the other issues regarding banking, monetary policy, and taxes. And I myself make no claims one way or the other regarding immigrants here taking jobs as I need to look further into it to weigh my opinion - but our broken handling of foreign and entitlement policies are exacerbated by problems they themselves invite, causing myself and Paul to take our current view that the borders DO need to be secured and free movement regarding immigration to the US presently disallowed until we can resolve the security and entitlement situations appropriately (while not detracting from the fact that we have many other things to clean up as well).

So, I'm not arguing your core point - just the timely application of it. Be well, Mirek

Denise B's picture

A nation without

borders is no nation at all.

Nation is an artificial

Nation is an artificial notion.
First of all we are men and women.
Idea of nation was created by overlords to control and enslave.
I am from Europe and from the almost begginigg of my old country history enslavement of the people by the nobles was in existence.
Do you really care about the member of your nation who attempts to enslave you? Like Obamney?
I dont. I would gladly get rid of him (them).
But I do care about anyone who loves and understands freedom. This or the other "nationality".
That's what libertarianism is all about.
I also don't care about borders, beacause they are artificial creation of the state, and the state is nothing else, but attempt to enslave us by modern days overlords.