-28 votes

Gary Johnson

Alot of hard work has been done by many RP supporters over the past year. If Dr Paul does not get the nomination in Tampa, then what next. The power of the liberty movement must go on. In Nov I don't really want to vote for Romney. Gary Johnson is a much better option. We need to throw our support behind Gary Johnson quickly so he can get to the 15% in the polls needed to be included in the debates. Let us celebrate the life work of RP in Tampa and then quickly turn & support Johnson.

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If Ron Paul doesn't get the GOP nomination

If Ron Paul doesn't get the GOP nomination, I too will be voting for Gary Johnson. I have been supporting Ron Paul since 2007, so spare me the "you're a troll" non-sense just because I have a different way of thinking than you.

Eight states do not allow write-in votes, in some other states a candidate must register as a write-in candidate in order for the vote to count. If Ron Paul is not on the ballot in any way (whether it's as a Republican, Third Party, Independent), I will vote for Gary Johnson.

Hopefully, Ron Paul will win the GOP nomination and we can stop all this stupid fighting amongst ourselves!

Disinformation: How it works.

"3). Dominate Discussions: Trolls often interject themselves into productive Web discussions in order to throw them off course and frustrate the people involved."

http://www.alt-market.com/articles/964-disinformation-how-it...

People....read up! Arguing with GJ supporters is a distraction.

Regardless of the implications...

I've always been compelled to tell the truth. The truth is not always a popular thing. That's the reason Ron Paul spent much of his life purposely secluded in the shadows of the political theater. He relentlessly told and continues to tell the truth.

The truth is that Ron Paul will not likely be the Republican nominee. That said - I hope Romney continues to shit in his own nest. That can do nothing but help the cause.

However, in the event Ron doesn't get nominated, I must face the reality of the situation and make the most logical choice to promote liberty with respect to the race for POTUS.

At present, Paul supporters seem to be divided into two major factions: 1. Those writing-in Ron Paul 2. Those voting for Gary Johnson.

I ask you to - at least - consider the practical implications of each decision.

If Paul supporter write-in in very large numbers, either Obama or Romney will get elected - no doubt. This certainty will in no way help me achieve liberty. What will the election of Romney or Obama do for the cause of liberty? Here's a list -

- War with Iran
- IRS survives
- Drug war continues for sure
- FED has no chance of being audited
- Military spending will likely increase
- The Federal Government will continue to increase spending and the debt ceiling
- Entitlement programs will expand
- The education system will continue to be dominated by government
- Small business will suffer at the hands of more regulation
- The currency may likely collapse leaving Americans standing in Soviet style bread lines
- Ad infinitum

On the other hand - if Paul supporters vote for Johnson in large numbers - Gary Johnson stands a chance of winning. What could this do for the cause of liberty?

- Prevent a war with Iran and save thousands of American lives
- Potentially end the IRS
- End the War on Drugs
- Audit the FED legislation will FOR SURE get signed if it makes it to the president's desk
- Military spending decrease by 43% submitted to Congress - more than Ron Paul has proposed to cut wrt the military
- The Congress will find itself having to override vetoes whenever bills promote excessive spending
- Entitlement programs will shrink
- Free market solutions to education will be able to compete with the government monopoly
- Regulation will likely decrease across the board
- All out economic collapse may be averted

For these reasons, I will choose to stand for the progress of the liberty agenda in November. I will vote for Gary Johnson.

You can do as you choose, but please be aware of the practical implications. One of the most universal teachings of the Austrian School of Economics is that human actions have consequences.

You will FAIL

GJ has not senators, congressmen, very few committees, no one to back him up.

Of 36K voters in Mendo he pulled 21 votes.

GJ will return to the GOP once he's done dividing the rEVOLution from the Ron Paul Republicans to those who wouldn't do what Ron Paul asked us ALL to do and seek an easy, cowardly out in the name of conscience.

What does that have to do...

with the price of tea in China?

Who cares if there are any Libertarian Congressman. If the People elect Gary Johnson, I would like to see the Congress sweat as they try to override the influx of vetoed spending bills coming from the President's desk. That sounds like a good way for all those Congressmen to get re-elected, huh?

Or GJ impeached

But I predict he won't get more than 3%.

I'll probably vote for GJ.

I'll probably vote for GJ. Voting for RP doesn't make much sense to me if he is not even running. Having said that, both are far superior choices to voting for Romney, which is akin to supporting the anti-Christ.

Gary who?

.

The Granger (below)

... by the way, after telling you what I hope to accomplish (in my post below), you never answered my question directly:

"Now tell me what you hope to accomplish by either voting for Obama/Romney (indistinguishable), stay home, write Ron Paul's name in or something else, other than vote and campaign for GJ.

[All this is predicated on the notion that Ron Paul will not be the nominee. I'm still hopeful that he could pull it off. The anyone-but-Obama candidate is fast losing his luster.]"

I mean, those who castigate me for supporting Gary Johnson have not offered me a credible alternative for November 2012. Someone suggested a write in. Well, I explained below what a futile exercise that would be.

Plano TX

Actually I was responding while you posted this.

Ideally, you would join the GOP and get back on track with the Ron Paul rEVOLution, join the Ron paul Republicans, work to get a central committee seat and join us in restoring America by putting Ron Paul issues and Ron Paul Republicans on the ballot, which is what the committees do.

Instead of running away to flash in the pan GJ (who will return to the GOP like Bob Barr), get with Ron Paul's plan.

That's not answering...

... my question. What you are talking about is a long-term strategy, one that I addressed below in terms of my experience as a delegate at our state convention.

"Now tell me what you hope to accomplish by either voting for Obama/Romney (indistinguishable), stay home, write Ron Paul's name in or something else, other than vote and campaign for GJ.

[All this is predicated on the notion that Ron Paul will not be the nominee. I'm still hopeful that he could pull it off. The anyone-but-Obama candidate is fast losing his luster.]"

As an aside, I'm not running away to GJ, although the narrow-mindedness (not you) of many Paul supporters in addressing this issue is giving me lots of food for thought. GJ is no flash in the pan. He has character and endurance. He conquered Mt Everest, a super-human achievement. He'll be around for many years to come, playing a role in national politics somehow or another. (My prediction is that Ron Paul will endorse Johnson. Not half as bad as his son's endorsement of the architect of ObamaCare, but a matter for another day.)

Plano TX

Ron Paul's Plan is a Long Term Strategy

I have a two year commitment, and if Ron paul is not on the ballot I'm voting for Romney because I will honor my loyalty to Party oath. Romney is NOT MY reason for voting for Romney. If my vote was based on Romney, I wouldn't vote, but MY VOTE is based on keeping my seat and going for the long haul. I'm engaged in a long term strategy. That's right. You are not, and why I call it a flash in the pan.

What I will accompish as a seated central committee memebr is getting Ron Paul's isses and Ron Paul canddiates on the ballot. Without me (and the 4 others who joined me, so we now outnumber the neocons) it won't happen. Now it will. So, I'll throw my vote to Romney because the seat I have is powerful affecting my community.

I don't agree with you on GJ, and I promise you, he will return to the GOP from wence he came just a few short months ago.

Ron Paul WILL NOT endorse GJ, he will remain with Rand and ALL of us who did what he asked. Ron Paul isn't going to back those who did not back him, but didn't join him and then backed GJ.

He's not a traitor. He wouldn't set us up and then abandon us a guy who couldn't cut it in the GOP as a candidate.

You say a lot of hard work

You say a lot of hard work has been done by many Ron Paul supporters over the last year, well what about yourself, in your first post on this site you mention you're a pro photographer who planned on going to Iowa to take photos so everyone would have better photos to look at. Did you do it? Where are the photos? Have you done anything like these other hard working Ron Paul supporters you speak about. Because your profile is blank for the next six months until today where now you want everyone to work hard being Gary Johnson supporters while you do what, disappear again for the next three months while everyone else does the hard work you ask from them. Why should I listen to you, just what the heck have you done this election to help the cause of liberty, since you're asking everyone else to work hard for something you want done?

Yes, Gary Johnson is a robot,

Yes, Gary Johnson is a robot, planted by the two party establishment to divide us.. Take off your tinfoil cap!

Edit - This was meant as a response to the comment directly below.

My inital...

... response was dismay, but I think you are being sarcastic.

"GJ propaganda" is no different from Bachman, Perry, Paul, Romney, Obama propaganda: points of view in favor of a particular political candidate. See my posts below. GJ is a credible alternative in November if Ron Paul is not the nominee, a big IF.

Plano TX

Wrong, Sleuth I AM NOT being sarcastic...

A vote for GJ is a vote for the Obamney machine.

Well, give us your...

... intellectual assessment of how you propose we approach November 2012, if Ron Paul is not on the ballot. Let's not keep the debate at the tin foil hat level.

This is what I hope to accomplish:

Obama got 30% of eligible votes (69 million) in 2008. McLame 26% (59 million). 101 million (44%) did not vote for the lesser-of-two evils.

Lame-stream media won't give you these stats - too embarrassing. They make money promoting the Prez election as a contest between two opposing parties, with supposedly the majority of the population participating in the "talent show." As a reward for promoting this farce, they pick up a billion dollars in ad revenues.

Vote (hold your nose if you have to) for Gary Johnson. If he gets more than 15% of the votes in 2012, it will be the beginning of the end of our plutocracy. Voting for the other two will just perpetuate the "one-party" state. There is one promise that Obama/Romney will definitely keep: National debt will be $20 trillion by 2015.

If Johnson gets less than 5%, the establishment will conclude that the Ron Paul revolution has been defused and there is no need to worry about the liberty platform any longer.

Now tell me what you hope to accomplish by either voting for Obama/Romney (indistinguishable), stay home, write Ron Paul's name in or something else, other than vote and campaign for GJ.

[All this is predicated on the notion that Ron Paul will not be the nominee. I'm still hopeful that he could pull it off. The anyone-but-Obama candidate is fast losing his luster.]

Plano TX

As A REPUBLICAN

IF Ron Paul is not on the ballot, my vote for Romney is so that I can keep my GOP Central Committee seat and remain in the GOP as a qualified, duly elected, and credentialed RON PAUL REPUBLICAN, FIGHTING WITH Other RON PAUL REPUBLICANS to defeat Obama and Romney.

Clinton has the Democratic Party Central Committee seats filled and her supporters that have turned Obama into a LIAR. That is what we will do to Romney, putting Ron Paul's issues and Ron Paul Republicans on the ballot.

You will cast your vote and no one will care but those like you who remain OUTSIDE the establishment BEGGING for a voice.

WE ARE THE FUTURE, you're marginalized and defeated.

Roseanne Barr got more votes than GJ, and she's not even the Green Party nominee. GJ got 21 votes, in my county of 36K registered voters, Barr got 273, Ron Paul took 746.

Hey, if you can sleep at

Hey, if you can sleep at night supporting a warmongering fascist like Romney, that's on your conscience.

I sleep well, Thank You

I sleep well knowing that Ron Paul has my back and Rand Paul and ALL the Ron Paul Republicans are standing with me, whether they are senators, or congressmen, or running for office, or seated central committee members, or National Delegates.

We have a mission and it's bigger than the white house.

WE ARE WINNING!

WE ARE THE FUTURE.

I have sweet dreams and don't let others nightmares bother me.

If all you got is GJ you ain't got much.

Err....um....Ron Paul does

Err....um....Ron Paul does not "have your back." Unlike you, he will NOT support a warmongering fascist like Romney. I may not support Johnson myself but voting for Romney is like voting for the anti-Christ. By all indications, Ron agrees with me not you on that fundamental point.

No thanks, Sleuth51, I don't feed Trolls

but Matt Larson explains why a vote for GJ is a wasted vote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbzRE_SvK3c&feature=player_em...

The reason it is...

.. so difficult to persuade people to vote for Ron Paul is because some of his supporter are such ideologues. When they have no rational debate to offer they resort to name calling.

I have a lot of respect for Matt Larson, but anyone who says writing Ron Paul's name in (not sure how I do it with my precinct's voting machines) would be a blow to the establishment and advance our cause, must provide some substantive arguments. For example, writing in Ron Paul's name (in the few places where this might be possible) would lead to these write ins being counted and then discussed in the national media. It would be hyped as a huge threat to the establishment. It would receive national attention and be the talking point for months to come.

On the other hand, Larson et al must negate the argument that a 15% showing for Johnson in November would shake up the politcal landscape and remain a point of discussion long after the election. After Ross Perot got 18% of the vote, Congress balanced the budget.

"No thanks Sleuth51, I don't feed Trolls," means "Sorry, I don't have the intellectual wherewithal to make a rational case for my position."

Plano TX

GJ propaganda is nothing more than controlled opposition...

designed to divide the liberty vote, (which benefits Obamney).
See Matt Larson's Aug. 7, 2012 YT vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbzRE_SvK3c&feature=player_em...

I don't know who Obamney is,

I don't know who Obamney is, so therefor I don't know who it benefits, do you mean Romney or Obama. Better yet, why don't you act your age instead of your shoe size and post the correct name in the first place so others can know who you're talking about instead of just passing over your comments since no one but yourself understands the nonsense.

Perhaps others will take us more seriously if they didn't see liberty supporters posting such childish car-rap. No offense.

Delusional!

If the point is to take back power, then we need to take it away from the people who have it.

What veterans of politics like Ron Paul understand, and some newbies have yet to learn, is that third parties act as a holding tank for patriots. They are a playpen, where we can play act that we are engaging in a political process that really doesn’t exist. Let’s take off the rose-colored glasses and admit that the power structure controlling the two major parties has enough power to keep any real third party competitors out of the debates and out of the press. Sure they will sometimes let people who pose no threat into the debates, they do that because they want to encourage us to go argue amongst ourselves in our own party. They don't like it when we try to crash theirs.

If we give ground now, we lose. If we keep marching into the GOP in greater and greater numbers, eventually we win. Why, because the Republican and Democratic Parties are the organizations that are used to coronate the winner (or the one designated to lose to the winner). There is still a vulnerability in their coronation process, and we all know what it is. That vulnerability is the reason why we are in this game. Gary Johnson people, don't you realize that you a trying to lead people away from the only avenue for success for the liberty movement!? Think about that if you don't understand why people here are upset with him trying to ride Ron's coattails and build his loser movement on our backs.

Maybe delusional...

... pertains to you. A vote for Johnson in November has little to do with a third party. It is a credible alternative to sitting on the sideline. It has everything to do with showing the strength of the anti-establishment vote, that is, the 101 million voters who rejected the lesser-of-two-evils in 2008 - the majority vote.

Besides, just because third parties were easily marginalized in the past, this might not be so in the future. The internet is eating away at lame-stream media's dominance. The playing field is being leveled. The power of the establishment is being eroded.

If you want to change the GOP from within, good luck. It might be the biggest act of delusion ever, but I sincerely hope you succeed. Again, past is no prelude, but those who wanted to change the GOP from withing eventually succeeded in getting Reagan elected to the White House. The Politburo closed ranks and as punishment we were rewarded with Bush-Dole-Bush-McCain-Romney.

The past predicts that success in changing the party is fleeting. The Religious Right has had some success in infiltrating the party and this played into the hands of the neo-cons. They could now rely on the Religious Right's support and promotion of their foreign wars.

My attempt at changing the party from within was to attend my county convention, got elected as an alternate and wasted three days of my life at the state convention. I've never had a more depressing experience, being totally outnumbered by the war-vangelicals who invoked God's name and support at every turn. I'm zealous for the cause, but my zeal can't match the thousands of war-vangelcials who rally behind their pastors' call to go and change the party from within. Their motivation is that they are doing God's work, and nothing more powerful than a religious conviction. Anyway, good luck, keep me abreast of your progress.

So, separate your love, devotion and loyalty to the Party and the need to change it from within, from the opportunity to vote for Gary Johnson and stick it to the establishment. A poor showing by Johnson will make your task to convince the establishment that they should embrace liberty and fiscal conservatism much more difficult.

You can vote for Johnson and continue your efforts to change the party from within. As pointed above a credible showing by Johnson in November would greatly enhance your chances of getting the establishment's attention.

Plano TX

It's not about "change from within"

It's about having more people than they do and overpowering them...you can't do that in the Libertarian party. There is no power to be gained with your strategy.

"So, separate your love, devotion and loyalty to the Party and the need to change it from within, from the opportunity to vote for Gary Johnson and stick it to the establishment. A poor showing by Johnson will make your task to convince the establishment that they should embrace liberty and fiscal conservatism much more difficult."

Dude, the establishment knows about the numbers that showed up for Dr. Paul's rallies...it doen't matter one way or the other how many of them vote third party come November. A strong showing for Johnson will change nothing! It doesn't matter, get it? We have to crash THEIR party.

And loyalty to the party? Who feels that? If I love liberty then I have to go take back power from those who abuse it. Joining the LP, even voting for Libertarian candiates, does nothing towards accomplishing that goal. Why are you so interested in getting us to waste our time and effort?

And that sums the

whole thing up. Thanks, americasos, for your intelligent reply.

Thank you

Nonna :)