57 votes

First post, but I feel that this needs to be said

I have to get something off my mind. I have said this on my facebook account, I have said it on a few youtube videos... I'm going to say it here, please read it in it entirely before commenting:

This talk about Gary Johnson all of a sudden HURTS RPs chances at the nomination. Frankly, I don't understand why Ron Paulers are jumping off the ship when we haven't hit the iceburg yet.

Now, hear me out... I don't know much about GJ just yet. The RNC hasn't happened yet, Ron has plurality in 5 states, there are delegates out there who are unbound. PLEASE for the LOVE OF ALL THINGS FREE... THINK, THINK, THINK before you go and post online anywhere about how RP hasn't got the chance and now you are for Gary Johnson!!! Do you not think that delegates out there can read that? We should be rallying even stronger behind Ron Paul now... we are in the home stretch. Where did all the momentum go?!

I'm not saying anything about voting for GJ if and when RP is passed as the Rep. nominee... but for now, why are you changing sides? Gary Johnson is not Ron Paul. It's not like they are exactly the same and have the same 30 year record.... so please, tell me why we are allowing our movement to be divided (thus conquered).

Don't bother with your "Gary Johnson is better than Romney" spill, either, because I know that... my arguement is that Ron Paul isn't dead yet, but your "I'm for GJ" stuff is making it look like he is!



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Thank You, TNchickenut

...because it did need to get said. RP supporters are everywhere....certainly not just on the DP. Your first post and what you said was needed...and appreciated...an upper to hear from someone new who feels like many of us do.

There is a very well organized LP strategy to snare RP supporters and they know that time is running out. They do not mind attempting to destroy a very rare legacy that will raise the bar for many in politics for years to come in order to reach their short term goal.

If they can somehow bump GJ up to 15% in a very short period of time, they get 90 million dollars for their 2016 candidate. Between now and Nov...Gary wins the Presidency? That is not even the goal nor is it possible. However, with strategists like Roger Stone who publicly admits that he enjoys "dirty politics" (it is a game to him), what is happening all over the net (like your immediate GJ blip on your facebook page right after posting here) has become the norm.

The GJ campaign strategy is so far from anything Ron Paul would ever stoop to that it is unbelievable. Thank you for post. I hate to think about any member of the Ron Paul family or any of our delegates coming to the DP. It used to be an amazing place.

fonta

You are dead right...

It's so frustrating, isn't it? We must do things the way we always have done things... on our own. Grassroots, shares, likes, tweets, links, pics and all the other things we have done since 2007.

You see it the way I see it... and don't get me started on Paulfest now promoting GJ hard!!

Here is a perfect example I got in just seconds

Seconds after leaving here to check my facebook, this is what pops up. I copied and pasted. Format was one of those ads on the right side of your fb page:

Gary Johnson

Keep the Ron Paul Revolution Alive. Support Gov. Gary Johnson
Like · Alex Neal likes this.

THAT is what I'm talking about. "Keep the Ron Paul Revolution Alive."?! Didn't know it was dead until you told me!

I don't know of anybody on

I don't know of anybody on this forum who has said that he will unequivocally vote for Gary Johnson. What many have said, including myself, is that if Paul does not get the nomination, as is very likely, then we will vote for Gary Johnson. Obviously everybody here will vote for Ron Paul if he gets the nomination. No harm is done to Paul's campaign by noting there will be an alternative to Obama and Romney in the general election.

Again, "many here" are not

Again, "many here" are not the same as "many on the internet". Daily Paulers are typically more devout. But I posted here to get the idea out that we should be pushing Paul harder now, and hopeful that my post will motivate others to convince their less devout friends to push Paul harder now.

And I wouldn't be this fired up about it, if I haven't heard (or really read) it over and over. "Ron Paul has already lost, I'm going for Gary Johnson." or people who were posting Ron Paul stuff for months/years are now putting up Gary Johnson videos and stuff.

There is harm done to the subconscience of the ones who are not nearly as convinced as us that Ron Paul is the best candidate. There is harm done to us as a movement and to Ron Paul as a candidate when there was a delegate out there that was thinking of going from Romney to Ron Paul and then sees us as a whole deflated... then they just go back to Romney. So to say there is no harm done is not the truth... most people are sheep and sheep are allowed to vote. Whoever they think is most popular will be who they vote for... then there are sheep who are sudo-sheep. They don't go so far as Obama or Romney, but they will vote for whoever is more popular in RP or GJ... and lately the internet sounds more and more like GJ. That is my point.

Totally agree with you

GJ is a contingency plan and nobody should have already decided they are voting for GJ because this Republican Nomination isn't over yet. I don't mind thinking about and debating GJ's role in the future, but RON PAUL IS THE PRESENT. We need to be in his corner at least til the very end of the Tampa Convention. Sometime after the convention, should RP not win, many of us will make our move based on what we think is the right thing to do. But that is sometime AFTER!! the convention.

Great Post

You and others are missing the point on Gary Johnson...

I have read a lot of the posts on hereabout Gary Johnson and even authored one myself and we are NOT advocating that anyone stop supporting Ron Paul in any way shape or form. Johnson is a third party candidate and all we want is for the liberty movement to show support for another liberty candidate so he can be a part of the presidential debates. Is it so wrong to want to have another voice for liberty out there? If Ron Paul does not get the nomination, would it be such a terrible thing to have Johnson polling high enough to be a part of the debates? If Paul was nominated, I would imagine that Johnson would willingly step aside from the debates even if he had the polling numbers to give a clear message of unity.

Let me make this clear: we should all be fighting for liberty. In that fight, Ron Paul is our first and best choice. But, that does not mean that we should ignore any other potential avenues for advancing liberty just because it isn't being represented by our ideal candidate.

I think you are missing my

I think you are missing my point in the post. I'm not saying it's Daily Paul doing it, or Daily Paulers... I'm saying out there on the internet (facebook, tweeter, youtube especially) there are people who say "I support Ron Paul, but I'm voting for Gary Johnson because Ron Paul has already lost." Or worse, I even got into a debate over one man who is 100% behind Romney after saying he was a Ron Paul supporter first (which blows my mind).

My point isn't "don't have a plan B", my point is that there are those out there splitting the movement in half. My point is we should all be flooding the internet with RP stuff even harder. RE-post the same stuff if you have to, but don't waste time posting Gary Johnson stuff now. Not now!!! Everyone is entitled to their own vote, but in my opinion, promoting even the idea of voting for someone else is negative.

It boils down to this, while serving in the military our Drill Sergeant would yell while we were sprinting, "Don't give up and slow down until you have crossed the finish line, privates!", and that is exactly what many (in referance to another comment - 99.99% of the people here are not the same as 99.99% of the internet Ron Paulers) have already done. Some have not only started to slow down and jog, but some have already showered and changed clothes!!

.

"Johnson is a third party candidate and all we want is for the liberty movement to show support for another liberty candidate so he can be a part of the presidential debates."

simply put.
NO
he gives america the false notion a third party can win and we know they cant. paul and others are proof of this.
GJ is on stage to distract from what would be the glaring two party system if they only have two of the same thing on the stage, it would be very obvious. GJ is only on the stage to make it less obvious. He has no support and no money, why else is he here???
He knows he cant win, so then why distract from Paul and mooch his talking points and try for his support and money???
GJ misleads and distorts, and is not smart enough to tackle the problems we have.
He is a fraud, WORSE then obama or romeny.
He was sent to mislead gullible libtards who do not understand economics or the constitution.
If youve fallen for GJ you have not been educated right by RP and RP has failed you somehow.
but dont say you were not ever told GJ is a fraudulent mislead to the liberty movement.

"OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

Rand Paul 2016

It's easy to understand

1st 99.99% of the people here will be voting for RP if he gets the nomination, period.

2nd Many long time libertarians in the RP movement have never seen this much activity around libertarian ideas from traditionally mainstream Rep + Dem voters, not to mention independents. Now that they have visibility from all these additional people most want to promote or introduce a 2nd option because they know RP people won't be happy with Obama or Romney. Aggravating somewhat but understandable and we guilty of the same.

3rd Some Gary people are not RP people and just want to convince people that Gary is as good as RP or grow the libertarian ranks.

My Opinion =
1. Libertarian ideas will continue to flourish in both Dem + Rep parties because of RP.

2. Gary is no Ron Paul. If Gary brought the troops home tomorrow he'd get my vote of RP wasn't an option. Since he doesn't want to do this everything else is moot.

Gary who?

Gary who?

Bump!

Thank You!This GJ stuff is just to try to divide the movement!Ron Paul is still in the game!

President Ron Paul!

I still do not get how people can back or even vote for a candidate that has NEVER served in our armed forces.Ron Paul is the only one that has!I want a Commander n Chief that knows what they are doing and that actually has fought in these wars.Where in the world is the common sense of the American people!?
I will never vote for someone that has no EXPERIENCE in this field!These candidates that have not fought in one war want to tell me and the American people that Ron Paul is wrong on his foreign policy!Do not think so!
President Ron Paul ONLY!!!!!!Here we come Tampa!

When war comes, Dr. Paul can say: “George Washington and I tried to warn you.”
http://non-intervention.com/1033/when-war-comes-dr-paul-can-...

I tried to pursuade GJ about a winning strategy 8 months ago

back in the end of December when GJ had called a press conference in New Mexico for an "important announcement" and the rumor was that he would switch parties and run Libertarian for President.

You gotta remember that this was during the time when Paul was ahead in the polls to win the Iowa Caucuses and the most vicious anti-Paul attacks were popping up all over the place.

I didn't want Gary Johnson to make such a move at that pivotal moment, creating a divide in the liberty movement right when we needed to be unified, and giving our detractors an example of what they were so sure all liberty candidates will eventually do; run a "spoiler campaign" and split the vote and "let the Dems win". The press had insinuated this about Paul for a while already, which was easy since Paul had run Libertarian in 1988; showing in retrospect that it was a very big mistake for Paul to have made.

Since I had met Governor Johnson three times before, once when I was running for State Legislature in 2010 (as a Republican), I thought that he might remember me, so I took it upon myself to contact him. I left 2 phone messages and sent a very specifically worded email asking him to consider running for US Senate instead, as a Republican to avoid the accusation of "divisiveness" or "sour grapes".

I even made up a Facebook fan page to "Draft Gary Johnson for US Senate" and got a few people to also write or call Governor Johnson with the same request. One of my state's Republican legislators liked my idea enough to send an email to Gary as well.

It was a no-brainer to me.

Gary could run in the open Senate race in his home state of NM where he is still highly regarded, take over a seat from the Democrats in a winnable election (swaying even the blindly partisan Republicans that we can "help the party" instead of harm it), go on to fight for our principles in the US Senate (where a few liberty Senators would determine most vote outcomes if the chamber is close to 50-50 party split next year) and be in a great position to run for President in 2016 with more support than Paul had this time.

That was a lot more possible than winning the Presidency as a third party candidate with a shoestring campaign budget and a divided liberty vote in most states where RP would be either written in or on the ballot under another third party (Constitution or American Independent).

I even added "at least wait until we see how much of the vote you win in New Hampshire next month to show what support you really have". I tried everything I could think of.

It was all to no avail.

Mr Johnson never responded to my requests, went out and shot himself in the foot politically and divided our movement in the short term this year. They merely put me on his email list of supporters, which is pretty frustrating, since even my statist congressman and Senators reply with at least a "thanks for giving your input" response from an actual person on their staff.

My point is that Gary Johnson had a chance to WIN a winnable race that would help him accomplish his ultimate goals in DC, but he didn't seem to even consider the possibility.

I do wish him well, but I wonder about his wisdom when he makes a decision with such bad timing and predictably bad consequences.

At least

At least you tried. You saw what I'm saying... there is a divide and any divide causes trouble. Sure, this might be a divide and conquered FOR NOW type scenerio but I'm getting older and so is Ron Paul. I want it now! (humor there)

Seriously, though, I feel like Ron Paul was slamming it early 2012 and now everyone's apathy is back and our shoulders are rolled forward, heads hanging down, and we all give a crap anymore. I want the rage, I want the energy, I want the moving videos posted on youtube....

Most of all, I want Ron Paul to get the nomination. I don't think everyone cares anymore, and that is troubling.

I'll tell you why (just one humble opinion)

There are 8 states that do not allow write-in votes at all. I live in one of them.

Right now the people I know personally that do not like Romney or Obama are trying to figure out which one of those two criminals is the LESSER of two evils. They're having a hard time, and rightfully so. Nobody wants another GW, so even if they're Democrats like I was and they have nothing but disdain for Obama like I do, they're still MORE afraid of Republicans.

I have convinced a lot of people in my circle of friends to support Ron Paul, even though he's running with the big "R", but the GOP has been ugly, ugly, ugly this entire election and it's scaring off the Dems that want to vote against Obama.

Unfortunately the media is very powerful and some that really would vote for Dr. Paul are convinced that he's already out and doesn't have a chance--and that if he did win, the GOP would change him.

In a non write-in state like mine, it's important to at least let people know there ARE other choices for President. My disgruntled Dem friends WILL vote for Ron Paul if he's on the ballot, but for now, I want them at least looking at liberty candidates.

I do a lot of freelance graphics for the RP campaign (almost 200 graphics so far), and I just made my first Gary Johnson one today. It was not the same and I felt nothing. BUT I want my fellow Arkansans to know they have choices and after Tampa we'll know what they are exactly.

I will never give up on Ron Paul. I won't throw a vote away on a write-in vote that wouldn't count in our state though, and neither would my friends.

The two most important days in your life are the day you are born...and the day you find out why. -Mark Twain

I understand

I understand that write-ins don't really work because of the 8 states that don't acknowledge them. And we all know how easy votes and chads get lost, miscounted, or don't arrive on time to be counted (magically)... but again, too early. Can't we wait for a couple more weeks before all that? We should be pushing Ron Paul harder than ever.

Divide and conquer is an old stratagy, because it works.

Many supporters of Liberty support Gary Johnson, because he will bring liberty to them (in their minds). All they have to do is vote.
The Dr Paul liberty supporters will ultimately succeed, because they will fight to bring about a government that believes in Dr Paul's message, knowing that it is a long term plan.
As an aside, I have always had a feeling that GJ is the "Allowed Voice of Descent"...you know...let the peasants think they have choice. Something doesn't sit quite right for some reason.

What happens when Ron Paul retires?

I believe in Ron Paul and his message, but not everyone believes in his stances 100%, even in the liberty movement. You want to talk about dividing the movement? Classifying yourself as a Ron Paul liberty movement vs. all other liberty movements, that is division. We are all aiming towards a common goal. Given how little liberty we have and the fact that our greatest representative in decades could be retired soon, we are not in a position to demonize others fighting for liberty simply because they are not 100% in line with Paul's stances. I know, I know, no compromise right? As much as I wish we could just flip a switch and have the country the way we want it, with 100 million people firmly in support of more government, no compromise will be tough. What do you think they will do when we say, "no compromise."? "Back at you." we will eventually get to the place of no compromise, but we should be fighting for liberty at this point. We should not be the Ron Paul liberty movement, or the Johnson liberty movement. We are the liberty movement period.

It is not Ron Paul "the man",

but Dr Paul's vision for a peaceful, productive USA that will bring liberty to your citizens.
To have the real freedoms your fore fathers envisioned, the US must be at peace, with not only the rest of the world, but also itself.
I,m not sure that GJ really understands this, or really wants to bring it about.

I agree with you...

I agree with you... especially the last statement. Seems almost pre-planed.

Benton killed our campaign

Benton killed our campaign long ago, period.

Iv said the same thing

I believe it has to do with the way things are going in this Economy. Today more than ever people are frightened by what they come to realize. people need to understand that we are all here for each other to WIN. Remember we donated Pizza to the OK Convention from all over the world... now that's Unity.

His name is Edward Snowden

What is Capitalism?
http://youtu.be/yNF09pUPypw

I AGREE

We must not abandon the idea of liberty or Dr. Paul. We fight till the bitter end. Better to die on our feet than live on our knees as slaves.

I think the Rand Paul endorsement of Romney was the

Coup de Gras for Ron Paul's campaign. And this came as Ron Paul essentially said he didn't have enough delegates to win the nomination.

In the face of these events, it took any wind left out of Ron Paul's campaign sail.

I don't think it is unreasonable to conclude that people would start thinking about what to do next, and I find no fault with people backing Gary Johnson. I have been a supporter of Ron Paul since his Libertarian Party presidential campaign, and would much prefer him to be the Republican nominee, but I am a realist and can see that the majority in this country would rather vote for wealth than earn it, those on welfare and big corporations alike.

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.

reedr3v's picture

that is a NONexcuse. Ron is not Rand, never has been

and many on this site NEVER embraced Rand except as a better Republican than most. He is a separate individual and I can never understand the many who seem to conflate the two.

Ron is as principled and courageous and steadfast as ever. We may or may not agree with him on every step of the campaign strategy. To me that is relatively trivial. I'm never likely to see a perfect campaign strategy in such a slippery, unprincipled field as politics. But RP has come closer than anyone else by many miles.

The OP is absolutely on target. Giving up at the home stretch is unacceptable for serious political activists for Liberty. Jumping to a lesser candidate before the stellar candidate is finished is frivolous emotionalism, not serious strategy in any way, IMO.

If for no other reason, making sure the world knows Ron Paul is the choice of so many is good enough reason for every bit of effort and donating and support to the culmination through Tampa. When else will we make such an impact?
By comparison GJ's impact will be cloudy and tepid, since his record and current positions have far less principled clarity.

..

ron paul gave his real supporters our marching orders and we heard them loud and clear. It is Unreasonable to do anything else then what he has directed us to do, with out actually directing us because he will never tell us what to do. but in so many words he did just that.
and the GJ name was NOT mentioned.
Ron Paul never told anyone to support GJ, so why do some of you?
Ron has said to get to Tampa and support his rally at the Sundome and give to his delegates to help get them there.
He has said the fight is not over and his campaign is challenging
several different GOP apparatuses.

So tell me. I cant wait.
What part of those things leads you to believe you should now support
a candidate that Paul has not endorsed and do so before his time is up?

To me that is the HEIGHT of unreason.

"OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

Rand Paul 2016

Are we lap dogs to be lead by a leash.

Given that Ron Paul supporters are inclined to be independent thinkers, many of us will follow our own orders.

If you were fortunate enough to have been selected and accepted the responsibility of being a delegate, then attend to your duty and do everything you can to advance the cause of freedom, and the unlikely selection of Ron Paul at the convention. If you can make the trip to Tampa to show your support then do so. Go because that is your choice, not because you were commanded; freedom, not obedience to orders is the whole basis of Ron Paul's campaign, after all.

As far as gaining control of the Republican apparatus, I believe that financial, economic, and political collapse will occur long before the small minority we are can accomplish that difficult, if not impossible, task. I for one would prefer to see our energies directed to convincing the countless number of gun toting government employees that it is in their own best interest to not follow orders from on high when violence against this corrupt government erupts. What brought down the USSR was not the good spirit of those in power; it was the refusal of the military to fire on the protesters in Moscow that ended that corrupt central government.

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.

In some ways I sense it's

sour grapes because many wanted RP to go third party (Libertarian) and he did not so na-na-na, I'll vote for GJ.

You don't know much about GJ because he hasn't nearly the résumé RP has regarding Constitutional issues nor has he been through the fire like RP has.

If Ron Paul wasn't around I would vote for Mr. NOBODY.

The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.
Ron Paul - The Revolution

Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms. Ron Paul

WHO beyond the age of ten thinks like that?

"and he did not so na-na-na, I'll vote for GJ."????

Who would we be "na-na-na"ing to? The lady who tells us which booth to be going into? Are you serious?

That consideration of revenge for Ron Paul not going third party and some "na-na-na"ing is part of your repertoire in dealing with things that perhaps don't go your way, says a lot more about your level of maturity than anything else.

Really, who over the age of ten, does that?

Not sour grapes

I won't vote for somone I completely oppose like Obama to make a point.

I won't vote Republican just because the candidate is Republican (again).

But I will vote for Gary Johnson because despite one really crappy interview where he looked dumb recently. he's the best man AFTER Ron Paul.