-40 votes

Justin Amash "joins Mitt Romney neo-con camp" ?

Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.), frequently called "the next Ron Paul" and the only libertarian in Congress, has attacked Libertarian Party presidential nominee Gary Johnson on his Facebook page for Johnson's support of subsidies for the movie industry. Amash linked to a Politifact story from mid-July on Johnson's support of film credits while governor of New Mexico. Then let loose...


Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

CoIntelPro: What you should know

CoIntelPro: What you should know



Pay attention this is what they want the infighting in the LIBERTY MOVEMENT!This is how the NEO CONS did it!!!Read between the lines!Are you catching on yet?This has been happening BEFORE TAMPA!!!!!!

I'm tired of fighting...

...with fellow libertarians. Johnson or Paul, is Rand a sell-out, is Amash a sell-out, etc, etc....Can we all just agree that right now we have bigger fish to fry than each other?

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

Liberty is that big fish

and unfortunately for some of them.. We just don't think they're on our side like you might believe.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

I'm tired of being a saint

...and watching y'all fight over Johnson or Paul and Rand being a sell out...

but I am up for a fish fry if anyone's cooking

It's Friday.

why spin this that he supports romney?

he said nothing of the sort.

Because he wants to have Gary's love child.

Anything and I mean ANYTHING that brings to light a little bit of Tickle-me-Gitmo's not so shinny record, is like a stake in legal's tiny little heart. :)

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.



"OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

Rand Paul 2016

Justin Amash wants funding

Justin Amash wants funding for the election cycle, nothing more. You could even say the same about Paul who stayed in the GOP for his tenure trying to reform it. This is much ado about nothing.

Southern Agrarian

For Amash to support the "eventual [GOP] nominee," yet...

go out of his way to attack Gary Johnson over a relatively minor misjudgment seems hypocritical to the supreme. Too bad, because I once believed Amash would succeed Ron Paul as head of the liberty movement.

Justin Amash would make a

Justin Amash would make a much better president the Gary Johnson would.

I Agree

...and have for some time. In August I wrote an article..."Justin Amash May Well Be the Next Ron Paul". I will not link it. It would be very unpopular on this blog at this time.

However, if anyone wants to click my name and go to the article, please do. I support Justin Amash.


amen to that

amen to that

"OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

Rand Paul 2016

I didn't know that Republicans opposed ...

tax credits, or that they considered tax credits "stealing other people's money". How come no one told Ron Paul during his 20-odd years in office; he introduced a number of bills that would have given tax credits to many people.

AFAIC, the money I pay in taxes is my own, not "other people's" -- if I can get some of it back in tax credits I will -- and if someone chooses to give it back to be in the form of tax credits, I won't call him names for doing so.

George Dance

Robbing Ron Paul

After reading the words on

After reading the words on the website: http://reason.com/blog/2012/08/12/justin-amash-goes-after-ga...

"As Governor of New Mexico, Gary Johnson supported film subsidies scam that has plagued so many states, including Michigan. It works like this: The state steals money from ordinary people and dishes it out to people in the film industry. The tax credits (subsidies) are “refundable,” which means companies receive checks even if they pay no taxes. It’s central planning and cronyism, plain and simple. I fought it in the Michigan Legislature. And I’ll fight it wherever I see it."

I fail to see that a person paying a tax is getting a credit. It appears that a company may be receiving a check even if it has not paid any taxes.

For more about Amash: http://amashforcongress.com/about . I am not in Michigan so I am not an Amash supporter other than I know he worked against NDAA.

Yes, I know that Justin Amash says

that, in New Mexico, film "companies receive checks even if they pay no taxes" (those are Amash's words you're quoting, *not* Reason's). On the other hand, Ernst and Young (which audited the program in 2009) found that the state government "earns $0.94 in additional tax revenue for each $1.00 that is paid out in incentives", and that "Local governments in New Mexico earn $0.56 for each dollar of state credits, resulting in combined state and local tax collections of $1.50 for each $1.00 of state credits."

IOW, all of the tax money being refunded to the film companies in question is coming from the tax revenue being generated by those film companies (either paid directly by them, or at one remove by those receiving income from them.)

One could certainly still argue, on Austrian grounds, that this type of social engineering distorts the market; that the films being produced either would have been made in New Mexico, or shouldn't, or whatever - and if Amash had limited his criticism to that, he'd have been on solid ground. Similarly, one could argue that New Mexico shouldn't have a state income tax at all - here Amash would be on shakier ground, but his criticism would still be reasonable to a libertarian.

Instead, he's accusing Johnson of a "scam", of "crony capitalism", and of "stealing other people's money" without a shred of evidence, and apparently without even researching the question beyond reading the word "refundable". His critique is better than I've read from any other Romney supporter, but factually it seems no different from any of the other anti-Johnson screeds I've been reading from other Romney supporters.

George Dance

Robbing Ron Paul


Tax credits can lead to a net profit for individuals and corporations. I wouldn't exactly view this as stealing on the part of the person who claims the tax credit, but it is certainly stealing on the part of those in the government who collect the resources in order to accomplish redistribution of wealth, or more clandestinely through the inflation of the monetary base.

I still trust that Dr. Paul is an honorable man, though he has decided to work within the fascist parameters of the constitutional government of the United States, and is therefore subject to these kinds of difficult decisions. A similar situation (though less incriminating I think) exists in regard to earmarks. He has simply made the best decision he thinks he can under a set of bad circumstances that are part of a bad system. And he has described the situation pretty much in these terms himself.

The situation for Gary Johnson was, I expect, similar. And Justin Amash will have to decide similar questions, and his decision will be subject to criticism no matter what he chooses, simply because it's a bad system.

One final comment: I would go further to suggest that those who claim tax credits and make a net profit from it, are paradoxically the ones who are really serving their country. They are the ones who are helping to bring this bad system to an end. If it is possible to maintain a low enough tax flow to put yourself in such a situation, then (short of creating an independent community by, say, taking over a county and restricting federal access) I would say that you're doing all of us a favor. Unfortunately, most of us are like George, and are simply happy if we can get back some of the resources which are taken from us.

Serving your government is almost never serving your country.

And to top it off...

"but it is certainly stealing on the part of those in the government who collect the resources in order to accomplish redistribution of wealth..."

And to line their own pockets for re-election? I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine. To me that is the worse part of the whole scheme: Steal from the people they are supposed to represent only to give the money to and represent someone else who will then fund their re-election.

It was kind of a rotten thing to say

I agree. In my own defense, I was also gonna write that I would pay for it, but left that out....
think back to what LL was doing in the middle of August- and WELL BEFORE the rnc...
anyone remember?

LL was all ready prego with Gairies love child in June, well before the rnc, and made it no secret that GJ was its choice over Paul and the other republican liberty candidates.
It strongly swayed other newbie lib sheep just joining here at the DP over to GJ and threw a heck of a lot of confusion in their minds.
They were here seeking RP and LL was directing them to GJ!!
This was about the time I came unglued over the deception known as "Paulfest" and LL's MASSIVE deception all these years here at the dp... LL is a cloaked obama socialist who hates the US Constitution.

"OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

Rand Paul 2016


I endorse your suicide.

"OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

Rand Paul 2016

That is not a very nice thing

That is not a very nice thing to say to someone.

This is terrible...

This is terrible...

Support Rand, Amash & other liberty candidates? Check out: http://www.LibertyConservatives.com/

GJ did some honorable

Things as governor, and he did some stupid things. This is one of them. I will probably support Gary if Dr. Paul isn't on the ticket, but I will not support policy ideas that fly in the face of true liberty, and will certainly not ridicule a man pointing out legitimate faults in Garys philosophy. Have you lost your way from liberty so soon?

So let me get this straight

You are arguing that Gary Johnson is a libertarian because he supports government subsidies and Justin Amash is a neocon because he is against central planning?

Also on Justin's Facebook, "I

Also on Justin's Facebook, "I have endorsed Ron Paul for President, and I will not be making any other endorsements for President."

What the hell are you talking

What the hell are you talking about?

Justin Amash doesn't support government subsidies (aka handouts, aka welfare) and that makes him a neo-con?!!?!?!


Freedom in our lifetime! - fiol.us

A lot of you need to go up to the chalk board

and write "There will never be another Ron Paul" 500 times.

If you're going to complain every time a politician falls short of the standard that Ron Paul set for a statesman, you might as well turn in your voter registration card, move deep into the Appalachias, and do some fishin'.

There are other people like him out there buddy..

I don't need to turn anything in.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

I'm so tired of seeing these posts..

By you and others actually dragging the movement down. Quit with the negative garbage.

For Amash to say that he will support the nominee

whoever it may be, is bull.. The reason that Ron Paul is so important is because his integrity is beyond reproach. He has NEVER given support to a blatant establishmentarian. We can't accept leaders that are not morally capable of carrying the banner of the liberty movement. The only way that we will ever get anything done is to hold our enthusiatic, and well funded, support for only the most knowledgeable and sound candidates. We cannot expect to see many that are worth our support because the power centralized in DC is enough to corrupt any human being that is not whole heartedly committed to the movement. Justin Amash has been proving himself as a representitive for liberty and I would hope that we wouldn't let him get away with throwing his support in for anyone that would comprimise American liberty.

Gary Johnson is better than Romney, but he leaves much to be desired in his understanding of Austrian economics and libertarian philosophy. We cannot just assume that he isn't an establishment hack because he throws Ron's name out and panders to the Paul support. Remember Bob Barr, the 2008 libertarian candidate, he endorsed Gingrich early in the primary!