-56 votes

Tax the Rich, End the Fed

Can anyone explain to me why they think a few people HOLDING MILLION/BILLIONS/TRILLIONS of dollars in their Personal bank accounts will create jobs and stimulate the economy?

People having a savings is great but when such a small amount of people are holding most of the US's wealth that is not helping the economy. They have more money then they know what to do with and having MILLION/BILLIONS/TRILLIONS sitting in a bank account is not going to create jobs and they won't use it to make risky investments which is something we need in today's world.

No amount of Tax incentives will inspire them to spend enough. Even with a 50% tax they still don't spend enough. Why do we have to have a total collapse, when the few people with the means could give more and avoid a crash completely.

Government sponsored enterprises are still owned by the Private sector.

End the Fed, Tax the Rich




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There is no such thing as Rich when you fathom the money of the

FED. They are a private institute. I dont understand why they should be audited.
Private institutes should be paying taxes like everyone else.
So after the AUDIT...tax them for the 99years they have been evading taxes. Then confiscate all assets. Jail all the bums in a missile silos(so there will be less chance of a hi jinks rescue). Lock and throw away the key. The more they poop the sooner they will be buried in their own poo. bye bye.

The problem with the Fed

The problem with the Fed isn't that it's private, or that it doesn't pay taxes (in fact, I'm pretty sure they give the vast majority of their profits to the Treasury. People don't get rich off the profits of the Fed, but the actions it takes that enrich special interests). The problem is that it is a central bank with monopoly power over the money supply

You can't punish people for

You can't punish people for doing what they did under new laws.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

As Ron Paul points out, only

As Ron Paul points out, only gold and silver are legal tender. And for 99 years, they have been breaking that law. ;)

"If you think we can't change the world, it just means you're not one of those that will"

Jacque Fresco

ConstitutionHugger's picture

If they got their money illegally

they should be put in prison and their money confiscated. No taxes. If the fed ends, scratch that, when the fed ends, their FR notes will be worthless anyway.

I'll say the same thing to

I'll say the same thing to you that I have said to many people here.

Who's going to confiscate this money, and who gets the money that was confiscated?

Sound like government, sound like redistribution of wealth.

"If you think we can't change the world, it just means you're not one of those that will"

Jacque Fresco

SteveO24's picture

Force

Can you achieve your goal without the use of force against citizens?

What goal?

What goal?

"If you think we can't change the world, it just means you're not one of those that will"

Jacque Fresco

SteveO24's picture

ending the Fed

taxing the rich.

You're fighting a philosophical battle; casualty rates are high

I'm afraid you're fighting a philosophical battle here; in such cases, casualty rates are appallingly high.

I like to tinker with libertarianism as much as anyone here, but to get down to action on specific solutions? Nada.

It's one of the reasons I will never join the LP. it's a perpetual debating club with no ability to get beyond its own arguments and engage in genuine policymaking and power-sharing.

But don't entirely lose hope. Day by day, the real crimes of the supra-wealthy elites will become so blatant, so hard-core, that even the sophists of the LP will wake up and realise there is only one way to deal with it:

Fight to gain control of the government they loathe so much, and use it as a weapon against the plunderers and thieves.

And, if they are as principled as they claim, they will reduce its powers and set their own powers aside.

"Cowards & idiots can come along for the ride but they gotta sit in the back seat!"

Someone is gonna get a lot of

Someone is gonna get a lot of dislikes for this, and your a 4+ year member at the Daily Paul...

Sacrilege!!! lol

Most here have lost objectivity.

"If you think we can't change the world, it just means you're not one of those that will"

Jacque Fresco

Cyril's picture

Liberty principles explained in 7 minutes

"And, if they are as principled as they claim, they will reduce its powers and set their own powers aside."

Help yourself :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psV6pOsW9YY

But here's the thing : while being very few and very simple, those principles are SO POWERFUL that they can speak positively to anyone, from their youngest age up until their oldest.

The more sophistication and planning and politics in so-called "principles" for human societies, the more likely corruption will slip in, observably.

Oh, and same goes for when one attempts to put men in cold, inhumane spreadsheets' formulas, miserably failing just alike.

For Liberty.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

ConstitutionHugger's picture

FR notes should be destroyed

most of them are just electronic and don't really exist. We need a new debt free money. (check out the documentary "The Secret of Oz" on youtube if you don't know what I mean.)
But, to answer your question, my understanding is that when money is confiscated it sits in a locker in a police station as evidence. I doubt these billionaires have physical cash. It's digits in a bank account. There will be only a paper trail for legal proceedings not loads of cash.
The money might be used to pay debts or just goes to the state. Not quite sure. We still need government to catch bad guys. The states still need income for taking care of necessities for the taxpayers (in theory, right?). Sorry, but I really don't see how taking stolen money from crooks is a bad thing. If we ever get to the point of rooting out the most evil of bad guys, we'll hopefully have flushed out the corruption at lower levels too.

We do not need an income tax,

We do not need an income tax, we need a tiered comsumption type tax where fresh foods have the least tax on them(something like 1-2% max) and luxury items like large boats have huge taxes on them.
This still taxes the rich(or at least those who spend alot) while avoiding penalty on the poor.

To climb the mountain, you must believe you can.

Cyril's picture

Dude, just move to France

Dude, just move to France !

The perfect match for you, here's what's in the news :

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/08/business/global/frances-le...

"[...]For Mrs. Segalen, the proposal is the latest red flag in a country that has long labored under the image of being a difficult place to do business. France has a 33 percent corporate tax rate — the euro zone’s second-highest, after Malta’s 35 percent. That contrasts with the 12.5 percent rate in Ireland, which has deliberately kept a lid on corporate taxes as a lure to businesses.

“It is a ridiculous proposal, but it’s great for us,” said Jean Dekerchove, the manager of Immobilièr Le Lion, a high-end real estate agency based in Brussels. Calls to his office have picked up in recent months, he said, as wealthy French citizens look to invest or simply move across the border amid worries about the latest tax.

“It’s a huge loss for France because people and businesses come to Belgium and bring their wealth with them,” Mr. Dekerchove said. “But we’re thrilled because they create jobs, they buy houses and spend money — and it’s our economy that profits.”[...]"

In more details, here's what's being implemented :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francois_Hollande#Policies

The guy said several times, it's on records : "I don't like the rich."

Demagogue, maybe ? Or complete retarded hypocrite for sure ?

Anyway. Just look him up, you'll love him.

Best of luck and fun to you.

Cheers,

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Another option:

Bind the hands of government to the constitution (again) and they wouldn't need to tax anyone.

In other words, how come the (federal) government didn't tax anyone for over 150 years and still managed to survive? Because: They where held to the restraints of the constitution.

Why do people here think that

Why do people here think that only government can do bad things? And that if you bound the hands of government, everything will be fine cause bad people dont exist in the free Market.

Its about balance people. Government can not be as restricted as you want but we def needs to reevaluate how far regulations have gone.

Why is this so hard for people to understand. Balance does not mean small government.

"If you think we can't change the world, it just means you're not one of those that will"

Jacque Fresco

No one thinks private actors

No one thinks private actors are incapable of wrongdoing. The difference is that only the government can legally use force against you. Which is why libertarians (except anarcho-capitalists) support a government that protects property rights, enforces contracts, and punishes criminals. That's a balanced society

scawarren's picture

I don't want to be rude to

I don't want to be rude to you but if you're a Ron Paul supporter you're a very ignorant one. Have you read anything from Dr. Paul, Tom Woods, The Judge, etc. The older guys like Hayek or Rothbard? If you havn't please do and if you have then please reread it!

Individualism-
To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting.
e.e. cummings

No I have not... and anyone

No I have not... and anyone here who has, lost there ability to look at things objectively...

Collectivism at its best, right here in the Daily Paul

"If you think we can't change the world, it just means you're not one of those that will"

Jacque Fresco

I don't see how someone who

I don't see how someone who ascribes to the 'Free market=chaos' mentality of the OWS has any place to point out 'collectivism' in other groups. Let alone the fact that you're mixing 'minds thinking alike' as 'minds depending on each others approval'.

Its easy to ascribe to a

Its easy to ascribe to a mentality and not be a part of that group. I believe in a heavy amount of Deregulation, does that mean I'm a tea partier?

Most people you will encounter you will be able to put in a group. I am not one of those people

"Great minds think a like. WRONG! Great minds think for themselves"

"If you think we can't change the world, it just means you're not one of those that will"

Jacque Fresco

You took what I said and

You took what I said and twisted it I see. I'm saying the similarities in 'thinking' are a common thread. Any one who actually has an understanding of the economy for example, and isn't tied to a 'title' than any actual knowledge(like Paul Krugman) would arrive at the same idea that the Federal Reserve is bad for said economy. The fact that that is a 'common' trait is simply all I meant by great minds think alike, I didn't say "Great minds are the same".

the problem with simply taxing the rich is that they will...

outsource to other countries taking away jobs (and tax revenue) from americans; that is part of the problem anyway. Another problem is the ultra-regulation on certain industries whether the reason is sound or not --but combining these two elements creates rich mavericks who scammer to work around them. They who feel cheated will cheat or find loopholes.

There has to be an balanced incentive to do business and work for a business no matter what class you may fall under.

The people elected into our government should always be working towards a solution in best interests of the people but instead just want to feud and divide us more.

Stop the nonsense

They can not out source any more jobs then they already do. No amount of deregulation or tax incentives will bring those jobs back or create new ones here.

America can not compete with a 3rd world and its Militant Police state economy.

Only way to compete with a 3rd world country is to become a 3rd world country. That means police state, having the same rights as a country like China. Do you want to give up the rights we have here so we can compete?

Stop the nonsense

"If you think we can't change the world, it just means you're not one of those that will"

Jacque Fresco

You're not making any sense....

...but I'm gisting that you're actually in agreement with me but fired up and just wanna be pissed. Drink much?

I've warmed to soaking the rich after they put us into a wringer

I've warmed to soaking the rich after they put us into a wringer. Anyone who thinks the current trends in doing business is anything in the way of free markets or capitalist is either blind or clinically insane.

So your idea of taxing the rich, especially a 2% annual wealth tax on all standing, nonproductive investments, makes more and more sense as this financial crisis drags along.

I had a long discussion on this matter only the other day. The way of doing business changed in 2000. Until then, there was investment in workers, in personnel. Businesses took care of their people with pay, perks, fancy trips, and so on.

In 2000, the dot com recession bit hard and businesses laid off. And guess what? They never hired those people back. The recovery was based on efficiency, and it never changed. Even in 2006 businesses were cutting costs wherever they could to satisfy increasingly demanding stockholders.

The 2008 crisis hit. Houses were stolen from millions of people who invested in them. Banks taking houses that had tens or even hundreds of thousands paid into them. The midddle class lost a combined 40% of all assets.

But the wealthy increased their assets dramatically. Anyone involved in banking in 2009 and 2010 saw their fortunes skyrocket from the gutters to the stratosphere.

Are we to say this is all kind and fair and legal? No. Its bad business, laws were broken, and nobody in positions of authority cares. And we're collectively broke as sin.

The wealthy owe the entire consumer estate a chance to rebuild our lives. They must get their wealth to work in real productive enterprises that puts value back on the workers who make it possible.

Its not equalizing, nor is it communism. Henry Ford invented the idea in 1915, all by himself, without coercion or decree, by raising his workers' wages from the standard $1 a day to $5 a day. His reason? "I want to share the profits with the people who make it happen."

In so doing, other businessmen were compelled to do the same. Henry Ford invented the modern middle class.

But today's CEOs are the anti-Fords. Corporate boards feel compelled to cut workers and wages in order to pay CEOs tens of millions. They have put all stock value on a single person. It is reckless and irrational, and in my opinion, crazy to pin the fortunes of an entire conglomeration on one man making tens of millions a year.

Until a new Henry Ford comes along and uses his immense powers to persuade change at the top, the plunder of the middle class will continue.

The only other alternative is brute force: a wealth tax to force stagnant money into productive enterprises.

"Cowards & idiots can come along for the ride but they gotta sit in the back seat!"

No one here understands that

No one here understands that banks are publicly traded and some people were betting on the housing bubble to fail, and instead of trying to avoid this, they bet against it and made a fortune as you said.

Yet the people here don't realize this because they think that the wealth that the top 5% was made fairly, when in actually, many of them bet against the Housing bubble knowing full well it will fail.

This is what Wall Street does, that's there job, to fuck over as many people as they can and get rich doing it.

"Its not equalizing, nor is it communism. Henry Ford invented the idea in 1915, all by himself, without coercion or decree, by raising his workers' wages from the standard $1 a day to $5 a day. His reason? "I want to share the profits with the people who make it happen."

In so doing, other businessmen were compelled to do the same. Henry Ford invented the modern middle class."
EXACTLY

As many down votes as this post get's I know there are people reading here who agree with me. The vocal ones are the ones so far down the rabbit hole they cant even see which side is up any more. They have lost objectivity for a single minded Philosophy.

"If you think we can't change the world, it just means you're not one of those that will"

Jacque Fresco

I agree with you. Most people

I agree with you. Most people here are "free market" zealots willing to bring America to third world standard of living in the name of philosophy that is as utopian as communism. Free market never existed and what we have right now is centrally planned economy... not by government but corporate oligarchy.

It is joke to believe that Bill Gates, Sam Wilton honestly earned their billions... millions underpaid people worked for Microsoft or Wallmart "success" and they are sometimes one pay check from living on streets and Bill and Sam grandkids will not to have work for even an hour to be billionaires. All employees of single Wallmart combined will not make in their whole life time as much as Sam Wilton family is "earning" in a single year...

It is physically impossible to earn millions of dollars by working hard even if being as smart as Bill or Sam... to make such money you have to use others people hard work and pay for it very little.

American middle class was killed by globalization... new form of colonialism that exploit disparity in cost of living in the world to maximize short term profits by outsourcing most of good paying jobs to Asia. Even if US Government would cut tax to zero it would be still more profitable for most corporations
to use labor in Asia then to pay minimum wage in USA... the only way to stop outsorcing US jobs is use of extremelly high tariff for every product made abroad and shipped for sale to USA. Yes that is protectionism... but tariffs and borders existed for thousands of years and international trade flourished... crony capitalism can exist because there are no tariffs but borders and immigration laws keep sheeple in their birthplaces... the only freedom was granted to corporations to transfer capital and fruits of "slave" labour.

I am for ending the FED, ending wars, reducing or eliminating income taxes but all those things will not change much if nothing will be produced here because it is 10 times cheaper to produce it in China or Bangladesh...

Sure we can wait till disparity of cost of living will equlize but this means that many millions of Americans for many years would have to live in slums similar to those of Mumbay or Rio De Janeiro and work as hard as those in Jakarta in 16 hours shift for 10 dollars a day. Do you want this kind of "free market"? Well, I lived in communist system and I would preffer go back to it then living in such "free market for rich" hell.

The only way to achieve what most "free market" zealots here advocating (with attitude all or nothing) would be possible by establishing in USA dictatorship.... putting all Obama and millions of other "liberals" in concentration camps....and execute every person who support all social advancements 20 century offered... no free education, no 8 hours workday, no minimum wage, no free libraries, no SS, no Medicare... Good luck in trying that without oppresive government force! If you think this task is possible with just education and electing Ron Paul for president you have to be very naive. Even in countries that overthtrow communism getting rid of most of those things would bring communism back.

Cyril's picture

Another clue

Another clue :

http://www.dailypaul.com/250482/how-the-minimum-wage-creates...

'HTH

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius