-56 votes

Tax the Rich, End the Fed

Can anyone explain to me why they think a few people HOLDING MILLION/BILLIONS/TRILLIONS of dollars in their Personal bank accounts will create jobs and stimulate the economy?

People having a savings is great but when such a small amount of people are holding most of the US's wealth that is not helping the economy. They have more money then they know what to do with and having MILLION/BILLIONS/TRILLIONS sitting in a bank account is not going to create jobs and they won't use it to make risky investments which is something we need in today's world.

No amount of Tax incentives will inspire them to spend enough. Even with a 50% tax they still don't spend enough. Why do we have to have a total collapse, when the few people with the means could give more and avoid a crash completely.

Government sponsored enterprises are still owned by the Private sector.

End the Fed, Tax the Rich




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The education they need? Is

The education they need? Is that a joke? Do you even understand the point of a college education? Let me enlighten you....the point of a college education is to give you an advantage in the job market. How can it achieve that goal if everyone is given an education? It cant...what you are arguing for is an extension of high school....not for higher education...if people were given a college education as a "right" they would treat it exactly like high school. As it is its only the more serious students make it through college...which is AS IT SHOULD BE. Not that it does any good...I read a statistic a couple months ago that over the last decade 70% of high school graduates went on to get a college degree...a good thing right? Wrong! That means that now almost everyone has a college degree...which also means that the wage available to those graduates only goes one direction...down. Did you know the average college graduate makes 35k a year? Its pathetic...I make more than that at manual labor. If thats what a college education right gets you...you can keep it.

=(

When did life give up on you?

Yes, college is all but pointless, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't have the option of being educated. Learning opens your mind to new things and new ideas. Or should everyone just sit in their little towns and never wish for more.

Being educated is the best gift anyone can get. If you don't believe that I'm sorry.

I have got to experience things most people will never experience, and because I believe its possible for more people to have this, I say to take from the Rich and give to the less fortunate.

"If you think we can't change the world, it just means you're not one of those that will"

Jacque Fresco

Psychology 101-

If a person has no incentive to improve their lot in life, they usually won't..... Call it "The Veal Axiom".

Yes

Yes, and the wealthy have taken that incentive. That's what we have now.

"If you think we can't change the world, it just means you're not one of those that will"

Jacque Fresco

I hadn't heard about that

I guess it's a good thing I learned English, writing, math, customer service, responsibility, a good work ethic, mechanics, toolmaking, electrical, hydraulics, guitar, arboriculture, before the wealthy took over, huh? I would've been screwed!

SOL

Great with all that you can open your own Drive through Sonic and fix car in the parking lot. Oh wait, how will you get the capital to Start that business? Hmmm... maybe take out a loan, or maybe you can just pick up some land a build it with your own two hands, but your still gonna need materials...... This is getting expensive, hope you have rich parents who can get you this stuff, otherwise... Your SOL...

=)

"If you think we can't change the world, it just means you're not one of those that will"

Jacque Fresco

Well, without telling my whole

life story, I was the oldest of four kids and my parents were not wealthy. Although their rules 'softened' as my brothers and sisters got older, I was given the choice of buying my own car, insurance, plates, gas, or I simply would not be driving. Same with guitars and amps, guns, motorcycles or anything else I wanted.-They didn't have any money for that stuff.
I started out like every other kid mowing lawns and raking leaves. I bailed hay. I worked for this Betty Davis looking hag who owned a dog kennel. She even had a creepy pet cemetary I'd bury animals in and set headstones.
THEN, I turned 16. I bought a 1965 Dodge Dart out of a hayfield, and paid to have the carburetor rebuilt and the brakes fixed. It was a death trap, but it was MY death trap. It gave me the freedom to get a real job. By real, I mean minimum wage at a grocery store bagging groceries. Good thing too, since another pre-condition of my living at home past age 18 was to be enrolled in college (also on my dime, of course). I went to a community college and on to Eastern Michigan University. I got a better job ($4.50/hr!)as a toolmaking trainee. I took all the trig and calculus classes in the summer months to satisfy my apprenticeship requirements. I still mowed yards for a few people and helped a guy with a landscaping business on Saturdays.

Look, forget it. I could go on but it's simple- nobody is being prevented from doing anything. It's up to them. I worked in industry for years for decent money because I went to the trouble to learn useable skills. I owned and operated a tree service from age 29 until I wrecked my back at age 37. Sweat equity, frugality, and not wrecking my credit made loans accessible. A major medical insurance policy saved me from years of paralysis. I'm 48 now, own a nice old farm house on 4 acres, repair vehicles and power equipment, and make a little loot playing guitar in a blues/rock band on Fridays and Saturdays.
There just never was anyone or anything there to change my Huggies for me. I had to make myself and create stability for myself. I used to resent my folks hard line on making me pay for everything, but I learned early to take care of myself and make good decisions. There was no shortage of hard times, but I wasn't going to let that sideline me or defeat me. I'm certainly not wealthy, but I don't hate rich people, although there is a disproportionate amount of snobby assholes who are rich. But I don't pity able bodied and minded poor people either. Most could pick up their game any time they're ready.

Noticed

This is something I noticed about people your age. You don't notice how different the world is for some one my age growing up (27). There were no lawns to mo, and the closest shopping center was 3 miles away and the walk there was a single highway that you could easily get hit by a car. Not to mention that when you were my age I'm sure the price of college and other things were affordable without taking a huge loan.

I'm glad your proud of your accomplishments but unlike you, I didn't work hard. I got lucky and now my household income is close to 200k a year and live in the heart of Manhattan NY. And you know what I've noticed in this time period, is that money gives me access to things I would have NEVER got if I didn't get lucky.

I discovered I'm actually really smart and if the right resources were presented to me when I was younger I would have been a value to the community.

Given the right opportunity and resources people will do amazing things. Your story should not be something to be praised, people shouldn't have to kill them selves to make their lives better, when the resources are available to make life better for all, not just a select rich few.

And stop blaming the government, with out the government to regulate things a business could put lead in food or sell cribs that could break and kill your new born baby.

"If you think we can't change the world, it just means you're not one of those that will"

Jacque Fresco

What do you mean a business COULD put lead (poison) in our food?

They have been for years, thanks to the government. Wake up! Thanks to the FDA, companies can legally poison us through the use of aspartame, MSG, GMO food, and a myriad of other toxic substances found in our food products. Do you really trust the government?

Any business that makes faulty consumer products goes out of business on their own or because they lost their company through lawsuits due to their faulty products. It's up to each of us to scrutinize what we intend to buy and we should not depend on the government for anything.

By the way it is "you're" or "you are", not "your" in the second paragraph and also in other comments of yours. Just advice, not trying to start anything.

I trust it more then a

I trust it more then a business that's soul purpose is to make money. Maybe your into conspiracies and you believe the government is out to get us.

I still think its funny how people here talk about government like its a person. Like its a single organism, the soul purpose is to harm us. Yet Libertarians use government as well.

So lets say a drug company put out a drug and one of the things in that drug turns out to be bad for you. Its taken off the shelf and renamed. Are we suppose to keep track of EVERY ingredient in our food, drugs, cloths, etc etc... The government shouldn't put a ban on led, or arsenic in products or are we to have to keep track of that?

Its not possible to live in today's society without a department that keeps track of things that could harm us. We don't make things our selves, make drugs are selves, etc etc. Maybe libertarians should move to an Amish farm.

If you get stumbled up by your and you're while reading, you have a bigger problem then knowing when (theirs) a grammatical era.

"If you think we can't change the world, it just means you're not one of those that will"

Jacque Fresco

Cyril's picture

You need to understand

You need to understand something my friend,

"End the Tax, own your Life"

should be your motto if you really aim terseness.

There is nothing wrong with being "rich".

True wealth has never been in money or property. True Wealth is in your heart: when you've earned what you have honestly. Without stealing or using someone to steal for your benefit. Nor doing harm to anyone.

My boss doesn't harm me: he gives me work, I get paid if I do it. Should I become lazy, who am I to decide you have to sustain me?

Should I be injured, those who love me will take care of me, because that's where a part of my sweat was invested in. By responsible Life.

You can't expect those you robbed to ever care about you. CAN YOU?

Hence:

Everything IS WRONG in having ANY group decide where someone else's fruits of sweat should go.

That's EXACTLY what the so called capitalists of 1913 decided to do, by going in bed with the State TO ENFORCE robbery.

Do your homework.

Look inside yourself.

Re-read Matthew 9:9-13.

Even if you re not a believer, you don't have to be one:

Jesus debunked it for you (us all) 2000+ years ago.

And it's accessible to anybody's average IQ and decent honesty.

But it's your heart that will see the true meaning and make the final decision for your brain.

Peace.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Who have you met

I have met many people who are wealthy, and you know how most of them got there wealth, it was not by sweat it was inherited. MOST of the professionals that I know whether they are hard working or not, went to the best school's or had attentive parents and as children didn't worry about losing there house, parents losing jobs, not being able to stay late after school to use a computer etc etc.

I'm sorry but I have little admiration to someone making 100k and up. I have admiration to a person working 3 jobs just to provide for his family.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule, there are people who have made it to the top on sweat alone. But that story is very far from today's reality. Upward mobility is almost dead and yes the wealthy are killing it.

Travel the world and you will notice that the wealthy in other countries do not want a middle class, they want rich and poor. And that what they want for the US.

"If you think we can't change the world, it just means you're not one of those that will"

Jacque Fresco

Cyril's picture

You seem to ask me several

You seem to ask me several questions, or attract my attention on several points, in your first sentences.

I'm gonna answer to them all in just one shot, with an outline of my philosophy as it relates to property. Putting aside everything else, like faith, or fears, or tastes, etc.

Here's my most important personal DISCOVERY about life and the stuff you EARNED:

if you manage to find your way to living without ENVY, life, I tell you from the bottom of my heart, is the sweetest DELIGHT that man can ever live.

I don't envy our past geniuses or extraordinary entrepreneurs who succeeded in business.

I don't envy the CORRUPT, crooks, thieves, murderers sociopaths who sell weapons to warmongers EITHER.

There are F R E E to lose their morality.

I don't even want Revenge.

I want justice.

The day that People will realize that our seek for justice begins with OURSELVES looking at justice as only A CLAIM that says you ought to get what you deserve / have sweated for, or you ought to be deprived of what you stole...

You will enjoy the same justice as I will.

It always starts by BETRAYING the language itself.

This is where we are, today.

Now, give me the money you earned last week, because I know better than you do how to spend it to restore justice.

How do you feel about that ?

See, I just became a despicable other specimen of those we're all angry with.

Don't become one of them.

Tax = Theft.

I asked you to read Matthew.

DO IT if you really care. It's just 20 lines.

Peace.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

I envy no one

I envy no one. I pity many. And you sound like you are smoking pot.

Oh and your bible doesn't like Rich people either.

I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

Matthew 19:23-24

So you don't have to look it up. ;)

"If you think we can't change the world, it just means you're not one of those that will"

Jacque Fresco

Cyril's picture

I'm doing you a last favor,

I'm doing you a last favor, because maybe it will open your heart, before your eyes.

See, you chose a passage that seemingly fit your point.

I still don't know if the one I gave you makes sense to you.

That was gift.

But it doesn't matter. I'm done after this.

The rich in your passage is definitely the one who owns a lot.

Granted.

But you missed the other part:

It is harder for the rich, because material property corrupts. Or moral authority, just as well.

What they owns doesn't make good or bad. Those are things. They are people. The good or evil is inside them, not outside.

And true, important to recall:

I have no moral authority over you.

I have one over myself, per Jesus and the Word.

I share here, as a gift.

This is why I carefully chose to use True Wealth earlier. It wasn't the same kind of richness.

It's all about the one we can have inside.

Not outside.

In truth,

Peace.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Ok Doc

I still think your stoned

"If you think we can't change the world, it just means you're not one of those that will"

Jacque Fresco

Cyril's picture

If you say so, then, I must be.

If you say so, then, I must be. But I'll be fine, thanks.

You take the care.

CJ

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

SirTruthgio

Stick around, read & learn!

"The only thing we die with is our own personal integrity!" LRH
Vail, CO
Freedom and Liberty for Eagle County, Colorado. www.flecc.org

Learn What?

Sorry, but "no one has the right to take away someones wealth", is not a valid excuse for letting a few people destroy the US by holding money from the Market place.

"If you think we can't change the world, it just means you're not one of those that will"

Jacque Fresco

That money being out of

That money being out of circulation actually increases the purchasing power of the currency.

Whats the point

Who cares about the purchasing power if only too few people are able to use that power and benefit.

"If you think we can't change the world, it just means you're not one of those that will"

Jacque Fresco

Taxing the rich more than the

Taxing the rich more than the poor = redistribution of wealth = socialism

"Believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear." - Benjamin Franklin

Socialism

Are you kidding me? Please do not speak about something you know nothing about.

If we had 80% middle class and 10% poor and 10% rich would your consider that Socialism? Redistribution of wealth does NOT = Socialism.

It means more opportunity for more people.

"If you think we can't change the world, it just means you're not one of those that will"

Jacque Fresco

I like to live in a country

I like to live in a country that's got a free market, where you can do what you want with your property. Check out Singapore's economy and then tell me free markets with low and equal taxes don't work.

"Believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear." - Benjamin Franklin

Firstly, Singapore doesn't

Firstly, Singapore doesn't have to spend nearly the amount we do on things like a common defense.

Singapore has an effective corporate tax rate of nearly twice the US's. Singapore personal effective tax rate is about 1-2% less than the effective US tax rate.

Singapore also has an incredibly huge regulatory state. The government controls research, education, currency, etc.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

Hey man, I am talking about

Hey man, I am talking about their market not their police state.we could tax as low as them if we cut wasteful spending.

"Believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear." - Benjamin Franklin

You missed the point

He was talking about you can't get their kind of progress with out as he stated "Singapore also has an incredibly huge regulatory state. The government controls research, education, currency, etc."

If the US did all that, yea sure we could do better, but that is not the success of free people, that high regulated and controlled, IE just like China.

"If you think we can't change the world, it just means you're not one of those that will"

Jacque Fresco

Serious

You want to compare the greatest nation on Earth to China?

So when did we start taking tips from Chinese government. I guess we should switch to communism to so we could accomplish all the things they are by not allowing their people to question their government.

Ha! Way to go!

You guys are sooooo smart

"If you think we can't change the world, it just means you're not one of those that will"

Jacque Fresco

Did you really just say that

Did you really just say that Singapore is in china? Wow. That's a first.

Here's the problem I have with redistribution of wealth. It's the Govt. taking MY hard earned money that I worked hard to earn to make a BETTER LIFE for MY FAMILY and giving it to people who are sitting on their a$$es and not doing anything to better their own lives. What it does is it doesn't give people incentive to better themselves.

What you do when you redistribute the wealth is instead of lifting the poor up and them making more money on their own, your keeping them in their present situation and bringing the rich down. Another problem is have with it, is when you do that, your hurting EVERYONE. Obviously you don't realize that if the rich are taking home less money, they can't take vacations, and when they don't take their vacations it affects those who work in the hotels and restaurants who depend on those people taking those vacations.

Personally I am a firm believer in the phrase, give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime.

Instead of GIVING a hand out, provide incentives for people to work hard to better themselves.

"Believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear." - Benjamin Franklin

Mistaken

You act like all your taxes are only going to the poor. It goes to all kinds of projects and businesses that are in the "Free Market". Government grants and loans.

Not sure where you grew up but I got VERY lucky and got out of my situation, and when I got out I saw how wealth inequality truly hindered my potential to get out of where I came from. Upward mobility that this country use to stand for is fading fast, and truthfully I don't think it was ever there for someone my age. I'm 27 and my house hold income is over 200k a year. There is no way I would have ever learned the things I have learned and done the things I have done and been the places I would have been if I hadn't got lucky.

This is not about taxes, this is really about the fact that the majority of people do not have access to the things they need to be successful. It's not that they are all lazy, most people just need the resources and a few people hoarding the money is stopping more people from being successful.

Here is some tax history to help you realize how redistribution has worked in the past and it would work now.

http://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-tax-rates?op=1

"If you think we can't change the world, it just means you're not one of those that will"

Jacque Fresco