14 votes

And While You Were Busy With Politics...

Stuff you should have been speaking out about an amassing to stop, like this, has been going on... and you have said and done... nothing!

Question: What is the political solution to this? Anyone??? And for the sake of argument, let's assume a miracle and Ron Paul does NOT have the Presidency and executive power he wouldn't use to stop this... then what???


If we don't give a damn to stop this, EVERYTHING else is irrelevant!!! Unless, no, well, do you think they would wait until the election is over??? I mean surely they would at least give us a chance to stop them in their tracks by allowing somebody like Ron Paul to be in a position of power... (Hold on to that dream!)

Let the insults fly...

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Can we really afford

to be silent about this stuff. Romney has the CEO of the former Blackwater, Cofer Black in his administration. Either way, we are screwed unless we come up with a non violent means of showing our determination to resist unlawful actions against ourselves. Politics does not solve that problem, people banding together to hold those responsible accountable does.

You cannot outsource your security or diligence in the fight to retain liberty. That is something each of us is responsible for. And no outside force can assume that responsibility for us.

The founders didn't wait for politics to fight the King. They formed the committees of safety, and took responsibility for themselves and each other. They notified them in the Declaration of Independence, and took non violent actions to hold them accountable, and the crown responded with violence.

If we do not take similar action to put those who oppress us on defense, we will not have ANY resources to speak of to do it when it counts.

It is not the time to capitulate, it is long past time, to make demands... And make it clear that we will not accept the status quo any longer.

Cyril's picture

This is a dangerous topic and

This is a dangerous topic and we need to be careful.

I certainly don't mean any self-censorship. Please read on.

This website and many thousands (or millions) others, craving for Liberty and Justice to come back, ARE watched on a daily basis.

Here's my take.

The last thing we want to do is to publicly voice and call for violent action announced with whatever notice.

We must abide to the laws as much as we can intimately afford, on an individual basis.

This DOES NOT mean we have to endorse or accept WRONG, IMMORAL laws : we MUST fight them by ALL possible and lawful means WE CAN.

Before they are passed or about to be passed, or even aftwards (e.g., SOPA, PIPA)

Now, on Alter or Abolish.

I believe it's overlooking something important that to see it as a two option thing only, either of :

1. Peaceful resistance, a la Ghandhi


2. Active and armed resistance or gov overthrowing

Plus, option 2 is pretty much becoming one of them.

History has taught us that in many occasions, intelligence and knowledge OVERCOME what violence is (supposedly, though oft-wrong) efficient for.

We ARE NOT in the camp of blood shed by ATTACK.


So, in either case, IMO, we are sure to lose if we focus on them exclusively. Because for option 1 we're already running out of time before complete enslavement, and in option 2, we now have strong evidence they CAN CRUSH any violent and spontaneous attack of that genre.


We cannot accept to become slaves of a corrupt system implementing, TODAY, measures contrary to the most basic individual liberties AT AN EVER ACCELERATING PACE.

We cannot risk, either, an open confrontation with, now, alas, MILITARY and GOVERNMENTAL militias.


I truly believe there is a third way for us, in parallel to the traditional lawful fighting thru votes, that EVERYBODY, including them, the Evil forces, is OVERLOOKING :


They DO NOT control the Internet. YET.

Not by any centralized and/or almighty means that I know of anyway. Sure, top level domain names and domains have centralized registrars where the evil can take down specific domains, but there's, STILL, a due process to follow.

Also, re: fighting back, I AM NOT talking about the Anonymous stuff. I seriously doubt there is any reasonable way to back this sort of tactic up.

Plus, I even suspect that it might AS WELL be a PSY-OP, just like KONY 2012 is. (Remember this so-called "Anonymous" thing openly "declared war" to the US government. How convenient would that be for them to treat you as a terrorist if you affiliate with Anonymous ! So, yeah, right : thanks, but no thanks, Anonymous.)

I am talking about spreading the truth even more INTENSIVELY than we've done so far.

Again, they may have some reach over domain names or hosts, but THEY DO NOT directly control the dissemination of CONTENT.

Hence, our information war can STILL be carried out by, technically, totally PEACEFUL means they will have tremendous difficulties TO STOP if our volume of shared information about what's going on is, say, if only multiplied by 5 or 10.

And that would be, already, a H-U-G-E impact on seeding the stakes of Liberty back in people's minds, as for an order of magnitude.

Youtube, Reddit, Facebook, your own domains, Google indexing, you name it.

Bottom line :

In addition to the regular political, elections schedules :

SPEAK OUT online, SPEAK OUT, SPEAK OUT, always more, always more broadly, and ask everybody who joins us to do the same.



**A LOT** ACROSS the country AND OVERSEAS.

See what people EVEN IN POLAND know and crave for, about Ron Paul !

Doing so, always end up on the focusing end pointer : Ron Paul and The Constitution, The Bill of Rights.

No one knows about the future, but with or without Ron Paul, it's about LIGHT.

Darkness had it's "finest", most disgusting, hour between 1913 and 1971. When nobody very visible, and loving Liberty, exactly knew what was going on. Folks like Ayn Rand had warned, though, if only in writings and in minor politics.

Then Ron Paul first lit the sparkle in 1971.

He didn't cease with revitalizing the fire of Liberty until today.

It is OUR time to relay, especially since 2008.

It cannot be undone :

This is OUR FINEST HOUR in this VERY continuation.

It is tremendously more difficult for complete darkness to prevail over light :

LIGHT disappears ONLY when the very last sparkle of itself does.

Remember we are in an information age they DID NOT invent or anticipate.




"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.


"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

We The People must use todays

We The People must use todays technology and build a parallel congress. After a few years Congress will be obsolete. We did it to the media.

That is my platform


The Founders said...

"Alter or Abolish".... If we can't alter it under current means... then what...

We Have the current means.

We Have the current means. Our nation is already set to be run by the people. We must update using todays technology.
In NY the state is divided into 'electoral districts' about 500 people strong. they then make up te congressional. legislature. mayor, etc etc districts.
If each electoral district was a platform like the DP tied into each representative the voting could be put back into the hands of the people. Congress would be made obsolete thru a parallel institution which would quickly replace it.
The problem is getting Americans to run their government as they are supposed to. Right now we can fix this with our pens If we don't act now .... right now... It will be very difficult to grab Liberty back from a global technological tyranny.
WE can stop this speeding train from flying off the cliff if 100 million or so Americans put their feet down.
By myself .. I'll just break my legs ...
wrote a song about it ... wanna hear it? goes like this...



Political action is the ONLY way to

stop this.


activism is the only way to stop this... Politics is you appealing to them on their terms. Activism is you making demands upon them, and enacting consequences if they do not.... You do not negotiate with tyranny, just like you do not negotiate with terrorists...

If negotiation and appeal to authority worked, we never would have had the Revolution and would still be under King George!

So, you're suggesting we grab our guns, band together

and start the Second American Revolution? We couldn't even help Ron Paul win a single state primary, how in the world do you expect us to garner enough support to overthrow the current U.S. government and set up a new one?

It's called non compliance...

You do know about Gandhi, right? They can't force you to participate. If you march into the street, they beat your ass and throw you in jail. Don't pay taxes, don't comply with unconstitutional acts, starve the beast and grind the system to a halt and replace it with something else.

The founders said "Alter or Abolish."

I don't have time for stuff like that.

If laws violate my faith or property rights, I will be non-compliant. But, over something like the income tax, it's just not worth it.


by implied consent, yet again...



If you do not assert your natural rights, you cede them for privileges, that can and will be taken away at a time of their choosing. That is not freedom, that is slavery. Your just rooting for one warden over the other one.


I've been an activist since 1972. Reminds me of one of my big victories.. even is mentioned in National Resources Defense Councils, "This Amazing Los Angeles Environment", I took on Chevron, DWP, SoCAL Ed, Hyperion, LAX, Princess Cruises and USN to the So CA Regional Water Quality Control Board.. I won.. $125K for Manhattan Beach in signs for storm drains.. they gave me.. So there I am standing on the beach in El Segundo, all kinds of non-profits there, news.. to collect my award (one of many) and out on the horizon, here comes the Supertanker... making it's debute into Santa Monica Bay. There's my sign.

As a long time activist, anymore I see it as being a useful idiot. If they have a program that your work (for free) they can use.. you get credit it, and if they can't use it, you don't.

It's VERY political, it is on their terms... even if you go to prison 136 times for protests bomb testing..

All we have is THEIR terms, and that's why Ron Paul inviting US to become THE establishment is the greatest opportunity of our lives to make it OUR terms.

I suggest you not blow if for some fantacy you have about beating TPTB at their own game. That's an illusion. WAKE UP!

When in History...

Has ANYONE in the establishment rebelled and altered the course of the establishment, permanently??? The last guy who did that got shot!

There is no "our terms" in politics. It's "Silver or Lead" just like in Mexico. Either the people assert their rights and take their power back, or they will be led by masters.

Buddy YOUR the one advocating beating the powers that be, at their own game by becoming them!!!

Is that how it works at the Bilderberg Group and Bohemian Grove... Do people just march right in, and take over, and change things in a 180 degree turn overnight??? NO! They decide who will be a member, and they control the agenda... If anybody is suffering from delusions and is in denial and needs to wake up, well, pot meet kettle...

Ralph Nader

Check out "Unreasonable Man".


Ralph Nader was NOT in the establishment...

How do you figure?



Because Ralph Nader didn't hold a government office you think he's not part of the establishment? He still worked with the government providing for the government ideas, sources, and means to yoke us into the establishment. Sure he sued, and sued, no one has sued the government more than Ralph Nader, but that does not mean he is not part of the establishment. Everytime someone uses the FOIA, we can THANK Ralph Nader, who likes to say, Everytime you put on your seat belt Thank Ralph Nader.

I worked on three of Nader campaigns, and today, I feel that what we accomplished, besides dozens of law suits in dozens of states, was we helped the establishment find all the loop holes and flaws in every state so that no Indy would ever be able to succeed. The problem with Nader is what he does backfires.

Ralph Nader gets used and we get abused.

Ralph Nader says to Occupy, "Occupy Congress", and he's talking about people standing at offices protesting corporatism.

Ron Paul tells us, Occupy congress, take their seats and end corporatism.

I LOVE Nader. I've learned allot working with him as an activist and on his campaigns (and what we went through in 04 was far more harsh that what the Neocons are putting Ron Paul delegates through). I LOVE Ron Paul, and I think Ron Paul is correct, that we need to become the government we want.

The GOP is a shell that MSM is inflating to make it look like it's bigger and badder than what it is.. this is a once in a life time opportunity to get in and make the government what we want it to be. Why blow it?

Because that is still autoritarian...

You have to allow for people to assemble and have their voice heard from their own free will!

If you think the solution is that the ends justify the means, then you are advocating absolute power, which can be easily corrupted, just look at Rand!

The answer is grassroots mobilization, and non compliance with unconstitutional acts. We celebrate the Oath Keepers, and yet WE refuse to even follow their example.

Washington DC will not save you, we have to save each other. Government is broke and is clamping down on it's people. You cannot expect that criminal organization is going to do an abrupt about face and work in the people's interest... That is just basic logic and common sense. The game is rigged. The only way to get your power back is by a show of force through non compliance and be in a position to make demands. If everything is on their terms, then you've already lost...

I don't agree

I've been grassroots for decades and all it ever got me was trouble.

We save each other by becomming the establishment we want. As long as we remain grassroots we keep tptb in power.

You go ahead and see how far non compliance is going to work for you.

Like Ralph Nader, I never married, never had kids, put my activism above my own personal wants and needs. Sure, I have my name in books and magazine articles, newspapers, awards, and you know what they all add up to.. nearly 4 decades of protests, rallys petitions, stand ins, sit ins, sign waves, hunger strikes, and laws have changed there are things we used to be able to do that we can no longer due from the patriot act... know what all that got me? NOTHING.

Or my good friend Ralph Nader... all our work wound up helping the establishment, not us. We never achieved any of our goals.

Did we stop nuclear power?
Did we decriminalize hemp?
Did we end Monsanto?
Did we stop bailouts?
Did we stop wars?
Did we clean the water, air, soil?
Did we free any person or animal?
Did we bring justice to anyone?

No, what we did was give the establishment a means to regulate, license, fine and FORCE people by law and threat of imprisonment to do what the establishment wants. It's one thing if you choose not to wear a seat belt, it's quite another if you make that choice and wind up with a fine of hundreds of dollars. That is not what Nader intended.. that is what we got.

Ron Paul is giving us a once in a lifetime opportunity to be the establishment we want to have. For the first time in MY life, I have been invited to occupy congress, not as a protester circling a building chanting, but as a congressperson.

If we can't step up and take the power away from tptb from the inside, it's not going to happen, because all that work Nader and activists like me accomplished, was helping the establishment find and fix the loopholes to enslave us as we are today.

I'm sorry.

The irony of your statement of your experience...

Is that your activism called on the government to enact solutions to your problems. And it failed for obvious reasons, because the government conspires with those individuals to turn a noble cause into a business. Once you do that, you have self interest in not solving the problem and eliminating it, instead that is put aside in order to manage the problem so as to justify the new bureaucracy and organization that the activism was rebelling against for not taking action in the first place.

THIS is what is happening now with the movement. And people like yourself are falling into the same trap at full speed. and demonizing anyone else who doesn't see the virtues of the practice of ideological "free fall..."

You failed to learn from the first time, and you are reinforcing that failure as an ideology upon others.... Flawed ideologies don't solve problems, people taking their power back does.

Actually, they weren't my problems

My activism began when as a military brat it upset me that our playgrounds were ruins from wars the military never cleaned up in countries that we occupied.

Seems to me it was bigger than my own problem.

I became a Nader Raider, and from those experiences took them local. Like I said, I have many awards, they have no value to me, as I didn't see it as a win, nor do I see what Nader has done as a win, and perhaps Ron Paul will lose too ultimately.

So what are Your wins, sonce you're better than Ralph Nader, Ron Paul and wee me?

I'm not demonizeng anyone.. I just don't see what your issue is as an activist or how you are winning? What, for example, is Occupy winning?

As far as idiology, joining the GOP and becomng the establishment we want to have is Ron Paul's, not mine. I'm learning quite a bit, and so far, it's beating the streets.

Some folks like the streets. Nothing wrong with that. Enjoy.

Well in that case...

I guess you are "free" to submit to authority... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcdCDisu1gU

You just don't get it

You are free to get your head bashed in, bones broken, gassed, shot imprisoned, held indefinately and forced to work in prison to pay for your medical needs.

Enjoy your freedom.

I'm sticking with Ron Paul's way.

You guys are the ones...

who will "get your head bashed in, bones broken, gassed, shot imprisoned, held indefinitely and forced to work in prison to pay for your medical needs." That is my entire point. You are appealing in vain, to authority, to change authority. You don't have to be violent to not comply. You just do... not... comply... But that is for leaders, not followers who look outside of themselves for permission to live free...

You can run

But you can't hide.

In every relationship there is sacrifice and gains.

There is give and take.

Our rEVOLution is unique because it is going inside the establishment, which in the GOP is gutted, having been preparing to go bankrupt and end for a NWO.

We have a better shot inside, than we have had within decades from the outside.

It's fine by me that you want to be outside. There's your freedom.

We are not appealing to the authority. Our purpose is to become the autority under the principles, advice, and support of Ron Paul, and all those who understand what we have at stake and agree with Ron Paul.

By keeping my committee seat

So that any future election, Ron Paul Republicans will be vetted/ credentialed.

Like the C4L Tate/Benton

Who sold RP endorsements for cash

I don't know anything about that

What do you know?