-95 votes

Top 3 reasons the liberty movement failed

1. Ron paul never defended himself. Throughout the campaign we have seen it , the fraud , the abuse. Never once did ron paul call anybody out on it. Never once did ron paul stand up for himself. Sorry to tell you this but politics is dirty business , if you dont defend yourself you are going to get walked all over. And thats what ron paul and the campaign allowed them to do , walk all over us.

What if ron paul had gone off during one of the fox interviews? Directly said on national television that there is active fraud going on? Some would falsely argue that it would be "blacked out". This is false because this is the wonderful thing about modern politics. The other side would take this clip and use it as ammunition against the republicans. If ron paul openly said he was being cheated out of the election , the left media would be playing that clip 24/7. This would have caused investigations from the outside , and it would have caused romney to be exposed for cheating.

2. Conspiracy theories.
This destoryed the credibility of the movement and its supporters completely. You may have your own opinions on this , but im not going to get into an argument about it. The average person on the street sees a ron paul supporter as a extremist who believes completely insane conspiracies about our government. The truther movement is the biggest culprit. Nobody is going to join a movement that thinks the government blew up the trade centers.

3. Letting the media get away with propaganda.
The campaign never adressed the fact that they were also being cheated out of the election by biased media coverage. Going forward (if this movement survives) this is priority number 1. You cannot , in 2012 , win an election without fair and equal media coverage. No amount of "grassroots" bullshit will ever change this fact. I suggest somebody make a high budget documentary on the media coverage of ron paul.

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That's what woke me up.

Failed? NOT!

It was realizing the lies of 9/11 that began my path of awakening. More people are awakening every day, this is something that cannot be stopped.

The OP is obviously just trying to stir trouble or maybe is just still brainwashed. Either way the Liberty movement is alive and thriving more than at any time in my life.

Funny...

...I wouldn't believe a movement that didn't believe that elements in the US government blew up the trade towers.

In reality, it is "political thinking" like yours that destroys movements. In politics, as in life, one must stand for truth come what may. There is no alternative (or better long-run political tactic). In the end, the truth will always win out if people will only have the courage to speak out and defend it to those who don't quite yet get it. It's the only way to ever truly win more than just an election. It's the only way we'll ever set this country right.

If you have any integrity left

you should leave us after listening to Ron Paul himself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v60TWZNVgtk

Yes, Ron Paul did equivocate and play politics with 9-11...

...how did that go for him?

The upload was July 2007.

Interviewer, "You do not support the theory that the September, 11, 2001 [events] were orchestrated by the government?"

Ron Paul, "Absolutely not!"

But the you tube headline is misleading and it was a terribly confusing interview. 'Ron Paul denies 9/11 conspiracy theories' He denied a specific claim.

If Dr. Paul had any proof that this was done by government officials who swear an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution then he would have been duty bound to report such oath breakers.

But somebody somewhere conspired in secret to destroy property valued at $4 billion (insured amount) and kill over 1000 people on September 11, 2001.

http://www.infowars.com/911-commission-members-doubt-officia...
"many of the 9/11 commission members themselves doubt the official story."

The Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08...
"Some staff members and commissioners of the Sept. 11 panel concluded that the Pentagon's initial story of how it reacted to the 2001 terrorist attacks may have been part of a deliberate effort to mislead the commission and the public"

"the commission reported a year later, audiotapes from NORAD's Northeast headquarters and other evidence showed clearly that the military never had any of the hijacked airliners in its sights and at one point chased a phantom aircraft"

There has been no physical evidence of Commercial Airliners recovered from the events of September 11, 2001. NORAD didn't track any planes either.

Since there were no airliners, there was nothing to hijack.

American Invasions and occupations of the new American Century were based on lies, deceptions and frauds so many died for nothing.

Free includes debt-free!

Anyone who knows Ron Paul...

...should know that he doesn't play politics.

The poster above correctly argued

people like you turned many normal people off.

There are ideological limitations

in the current Libertarian movement. If Ron Paul did not offer any perks to military servicemen and economy were not going down, Libertarian numbers would be the same as 15 years ago. If we are honest, we should see that RP ideas sell well because of bad economy, not because of strength of the ideas.

The limitation comes because RP did not venture beyond Rothbard on natural rights. His message "you got your natural rights from god or nature" ... "do what you want to do." Without realizing that REASON is a pre-requisite of individual liberty, our movement can only go as far as bad economy and despair bring folks in. Ayn Rand won the argument long ago.

New American Link

http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/14438-pol...

This is the link to the New American article. Take heart - we have changed the conversation!

Vickie

Exaggerated

The demise of the liberty movement is greatly exaggerated. We equating success with getting people elected. In that regard the deck is really stacked against us. However, in an article at the New American discuses how more Americans understand now that excessive power in the Federal Government is to be feared.

At the state level: Yesterday here is Maryland I sat in on a hearing on No-Knock bills at the State Judiciary Committee at the House of Delegates. At least two delegates who were listening were definitely getting the point that Citizens have lives endangered by the raids. One really took the Police representative to task for not answering his questions about a more common sense approach to serving search warrants.

Yes relying on elections to change things is spitting into the wind but that does not mean we have to lie down helpless.

Vickie

It failed?

That's strange I thought it was just getting started.
Its gonna take some time you know?

"Once you become knowledgeable, you have an obligation to do something about it."- Ron Paul

Good point

What I really agree with you on is that the conspiracy theories -- which Ron Paul himself NEVER bought into, of course -- have hurt the liberty movement big time.

911 cannot be overlooked.

To avoid this peculiar event in trying to figure out why we are here just lands you more cognitive dissonance. Whatever happened that day was not what the government told us in the Commission. This singe event was the catalyst for our losing most of our liberties. The fraud obviously began way before it. But to understand 911, whoever may have done it, and how governments use events like these to completely transform society is not nothing. It is practically everything.

It only failed (for you) if you have quit

This isn't a race. It doesn't have to succeed at a particular moment or it has failed. This is an on-going struggle that will last as long as humanity.

The number one reason the liberty movement has not had a bigger influence is because the vast majority of people do not understand it and are, infact, hostile to it.

There is no 'failing' on the part of Dr. Paul, or Truthers, or subversion by the press that is at the root of it. These are all symptoms of a deeper disease. If Ron Paul had won the Presidency by some fluke and the People were still antagonistic to liberty, then his Presidency would have 'failed' no matter what he tried to do.

It is curious that you would claim the "truthers" have made the liberty movement unattractive. Are they wrong? If they are wrong, then by all means denounce them. But if they are not wrong...if they raise important questions...then it will be far more important to embrace them than attack them. History, and the liberty movement, will depend on always speaking the truth.

The Media feeds people what they want to hear. As long as the media is funded by advertising, they will be forever trying to find an audience. Right now there is only a small audience for the liberty message. The media is more of a mirror than a megaphone.

that's not ron paul's style

he's like the gandhi of politics.
to me the liberty movement is the spreading of the libertarian message, and no one has done more, and continues to do so in that field than ron paul. people like woods, rockwell, johnson, the judge, etc
continue to educate and spread the message, so i disagree with "fail" this spreading the word is a long term goal.

i do consider this push for rand to be a fail on more levels than i care to list. this is phony baloney using the liberty movement to sell an untrustworthy man and the neocon lites who gather around him, but true libertarians, heck not even the college kids are going to fall for it.

this latest kyle davis tweet incident IMO separates the wheat from the chaff. the ones outraged, the critics (including rand) do not (for whatever reasons) to my mind get it. they are not libertarians who believe in peace and are against the war machine that has its grip tightly on US policy abroad.

1. it quit. 2. it listened to people like you.

3. It thought in terms of itself.

9-11 was a panda job.

I disagree

Thinking for itself and for its own benefit is the core of Libertarian message.

ONE PROBLEM

The Truth Movement Created The Ron Paul Revolution. Of course there were many other factors but the bottom line is 9/11 Truth was the back bone of the liberty movement.

.

Ron Paul didn't want it bad enough.

I am really starting to believe this past election cycle was a setup for Rand to run in 2016. Ron figured he could grow his grass roots following by at least 10% over 2008. Because of Ron, Rand has a fast track to the white house over all that will run against him. since he endorsed Romney at Tampa it will make it much easier to win in the primary race. After all he will have to knock Santorum out of the race.

I can think of no other reason for all the positive talk about Israel, he is softening up the neocons.

I can see it now Ron will introduce his son Rand at all the rallies, then all will be forgiven about Rand's endorsement of Romney.

Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed

depressing thought

and if that would come to pass it would destroy ron's legacy, not to mention the millions who would become disenchanted, leave the freedom movement, and lose all interest in the political system.

Four more years of Obama

might change your mind.

Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed

lesser of 2 evils

never appealed to me. 4 (or 8) years of romney i believe would have been equally bad.

"It's the system itself that must be changed"
-Ron Paul

The way I see it in 2016 election primary

you will have Rand and Santorum on the right. Then there will most likely be Hillary on the left. Santorum and Hillary are just puppets of the banking system, at least Rand wants to audit the FED.

If Rand could do just one thing during his first term, that being Audit the FED, he would have accomplished more than his dad in all the years in Congress.

Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed

audit the FED

wouldn't even part of the conversation without ron & he already achieved a partial audit. the legacy ron paul will leave behind will only grow as new generations get it. just look at the college crowds. i don't see rand ever getting anywhere remotely near to that level of inspiration, although he may be a successful politician.

only thing that would excite me in 2016 is ron paul & the judge as the LP ticket.

Overall all premises are wrong

The title being the main premise is false. You think that this was about winning an election, NOT. Electoral politics is a muggs game. The bully pulpit of the campaign was worth it though.

Defending himself would be counter productive. Defence is weak, he stood firm in his principles and on the truth, and let the opponents show themselves for lack of substance.

Blaming conspiracy theorists is a cop out. Dr Paul was clear on were he stood on those issues. The lame stream would find something to hang on him no matter what.

The media was going to do what was in their best interest and all you can do is tell the truth. There is no way to control them, and vehement defence would have a big downside.

He was not cheated out of winning. He was an extreme dark horse candidate.

We won the day in the battleground of ideas, morals, ethics, philosophy.

I think the title is supposed

I think the title is supposed to read "Top 3 reasons why the Ron Paul campaign failed"

Huh?

Failed...as in past tense? The liberty movement IS (present tense) alive and well...and growing!

I will concede that Paul did not get elected due to election fraud, a corrupt media, etc...but the liberty movement has survived in spite of the shenanigans.

Onward and upward, I say!

O.P.O.G.G. - Fighting the attempted devolution of the rEVOLution
Ron Paul 2012...and beyond
BAN ELECTRONIC VOTING!!

I think Ron Paul was as concerned

About growing the liberty movement as anything.

As evidenced by his constant pursuit of the youth vote and college crowd.

If you want to grow a movement that will last, that most certainly is the way to do it.

Ron Paul is just about gone now, slipping slowly into the background and well deserved retirement.

Yet we are still all here. I'd say he succeeded.

Rome wasn't built in a day. The best thing we can do is continue his work. Keep converting, keep sharing opinions, understand other perspectives and listen. The Republican establishment cannot beat our ground game. In the long run we will win if we persevere.

We are friends here for a while.

But what will the message be, 10 years from now or 20.

Dr. Paul's example provides the challenge. Liberty is popular, spread the good news.

Have you ever found it rewarding in itself, even without an institutionalized movement?

We meet at Michael's and tell the tales we have lived or imagined.

I can do anyone a favor and it doesn't cost anything. I can leave them free, unilaterally. I don't have to trust them or respect them. No strings attached.

I knew 2 of 12 guys that started a private Corporation just to rent a hangar a buy a couple of nice airplanes. Peaceful associations can prove profitable if you have 11 friends. For example.

Maybe we need a secret handshake,

Free includes debt-free!

I like to try and right what I think is wrong

I can do this by influencing general opinion by sharing mine. I try to follow RP/Zeitgeist/Counterculture/Libertarian ideals. (Counter culture is what I grew up surrounded by back in the 70s - Jello Biafra, Andy Warhol, Timothy Leary and all that stuff)

For instance, if I see too much left/right bashing in a thread, I might jump in and post something about the left/right paradigm.

Too much anti-conspiracy theory posting and I'll jump in and defend conspiracy theorists though I'm not really one myself.

Too much Bush bashing and I'll make a post about Obama, and vice versa. I don't want to see the DP descend into a herd mentality so I am always mixing it up.

Most of all, I try to encourage people to think! That is where I take my greatest satisfaction.

Secret handshake?

SafetyFreedom is an inherent right