13 votes

The Revolution will fail. (Prove me wrong.)

A famous observation about democracy from Alexander Tytler is that all democracies fail, in this order:

Nations always progress through the following sequence:

From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to selfishness;
From selfishness to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage.

(See Wikipedia: Alexander Fraser Tytler)

The only way we can jump from the second-to-last step into the fourth step is through total humility, selflessness, and faith. Can you do that? Can all of us in this movement do that?

I really don't know.

Prove me wrong.

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I'm going to get downvoted here, but...

I can't seem to get 'on board' with hardly any of the comments here.

First off are the defeatists. Of course in what they know, they are right but they really should do more research to learn of all the small 'brushfire' type actions being done by this or that group.

Then we have the 'sit back and wait' people who say faith and religion will solve it so we don't have to take personal responsibility. Sorry but that's what got us unto this mess.

The we have others who think that just because we have tracked previous civilizations through certain steps of a cycle, that this proves we are destined (without a chance to change it) to repeat history. While this may be a method of how some things in this world work, history has exactly zero to do with the present. There are too many factors which differ between then and now.

I'm sure there are other viewpoints I'm missing but suffice it to say that only a few commenters at max see what's really going on.

The people of the world are in the beginning steps of the greatest revolution ever to be conceived of. This one will be orders of magnitude more significant than all the others combined. This revolution is not about some political enlightenment or some spiritual kumbayah. It's not even about liberty or security or waking the people up to any of these.

This revolution is rapidly (albiet slowly to the casual observer) waking people up to the fact that they are now in possession of all the tools they need to do just about anything they want. Gone are all the limitations of past decades, centuries and millennium. No longer do people have to rely on someone else to do anything. If for no other reason than a person possesses desire to do so, that person may provide for a family, produce any good or service, start any movement, learn any concept, communicate any idea or coordinate any group. It is nothing more than the desire to do so that remains the sole requirement.

Sure, not every person knows all these options exist yet but every single day, the internet users are learning billions of specific examples and every single day many millions of people are jumping into this brave exciting virtual world. The ramifications are nothing short of awe inspiring.

As such, those ideas that have what it takes to make the changes we desperately need changed... those ideas are fast approaching the people that are needed to put them to work. It works in a similar way to the power of a network. As it grows, it's power rises by the square of the membership. Well, in this case I believe one must take the square of the membership and multiply that by the square of the information available also. Does this give us hope?

Well, not really. If we look at the doubling math problem of old, we see a really interesting relationship. If you're unaware, in this problem, a football stadium is sealed to hold water. At minute one, a drop of water is dumped into the stadium. Each minute afterward for the whole day, an amount double that of the previous one is dumped in. The given is that it fills the stadium at midnight. The question is how full was is 1, 2 and 3 minutes before midnight and 1 and 2 minutes after? We all know that the answers are 50%, 25%, 12.5%, 200% and 400%. Obviously, the moral is that at 11:55, no one sees a 3% full stadium as a problem.

In today's case, however, it would be more difficult to see the end approaching. At the times listed above, the new answers are 25%, 6.25%, 1.56%, 400% and 1600%. Who would even see 11:59:59 as a problem?

So, I believe (and my research has proven this out) that the efforts of vastly smaller groups than it took for the American Revolution will be the ones bringing the solutions to us at much faster rates than we can even conceive of right now.

The question is will we be ready? Will we open our minds to hearing things that just yesterday were science fiction or fairy tale? That's the main issue because as you can see above, the time scale got squished awfully tight, awfully quick.

Very Good post

It is difficult to go from Selfishness or Apathy to Spiritual faith.

I agree with the poster that says we may need to hit bottom before we change.

Personally, I like Iceland's revolution model over Hitler's bondage model.

Is Tytler right?

I don't consider Tytler's model to be self evident. It has several faults and does not necessarily represent the ONLY possible cycle of events. For example, Tytler treats "bondage" as if it is at the extreme worst of a cyclical gradient, but that's not how it really works. Most Americans will tell you today that America has not yet "fallen", yet they ALL are in various states of bonadage. High taxes. High regulation. Loss of certain freedoms. Etc.

Tytler's model, however, tends to suggest that during "abundance", there is no bondage. We are currently in a time of relative abundance, however, and are also bound more than we were a decade ago.

A simpler and more accurate model is probably this:

From cognitive and civic miserliness (which facilitates despotism) to proactive self rule.
From proactive self rule back into cognitive and civic miserliness.

And its simpler yet if we leave out the causes:

From despotism into self rule.
From self rule into despotism.

Tytler greatly overplays "faith" in my observation. Roughly 80% of Americans claim to have faith (of the Christian sort), yet we continue to sink into despotism. Yes, someone always wants to argue that these people don't have TRUE faith, yet there is no passage in the Bible that clearly and succinctly defines "Christian" or "Christianity".

But besides that, does Tytler (or anybody else) expect God to come down here and reform our government for us, if only we'll turn to the "true" version of faith? Or is it rather the expectation that people of "faith" will develop in themselves the high character necessary to free themselves from despotism?

If that's the case, that seems to be failing, too, for our churches, for whatever reason, put out only a very, very few people with this sort of character.

Don't get me wrong, whether it comes out of the churches or someplace else, without that sort of character, we are hopeless. But if anyone thinks that "faith" is the answer, I hope they have in mind some manner of "faith" that is distinct from that which we can already observe to be useless for such things.

These old adages just don't hold anymore

At least in such a broad sense.
We are in an age where knowledge and information travel in lightspeeds.
I don't want to dig up wether you agree with AJ or not on his Piers performance. I wish only to point out - Piers has an audience of 100 of thousands(maybe million - I dont know). Howard Stern has an audience of millions for sure. So between the original show and Stern's replay alone - you are talking millions and millions of people hearing something for the first time. Stern was actually complimentary to AJ - Stern fans tend to be sheeple to Stern - if Stern and Robin think he had some points - then his fans will think he had some points. The dominoes just fall faster today.

Personally - I don't think you need any of the three things you point out.
Humility - in the true biblical sense of the word - is NOT liberty - humility is being humble before God and not wanting those things that come with liberty(save perhaps the liberty to worship God). Humility is actually closer to socialism than liberty - after all - if you are a humble man you would give what you didn't need away to those that did - regardless of their earning it- which is pretty much what socialism is. Jesus never said to only share with those willing to work for it - he said to share with those who do not have. Humility is realizing that all you have is because of God and hence, not yours to keep anyways. I don't buy into that.

Selflessness - sounds about the same as prior argument - if you are selfless - you wouldn't want to have more than your neighbor anyways - so just pony up the extra. Liberty is selfishness - it is the idea that I can do what ever the hell I want as long as it doesn't impose upon your doing the same. Nothing can be MORE selfish.

Faith - faith in what - the socialist has faith in government. Does that faith count? Oh - you mean faith in God? But who's god? And who here claims to know the only God - the God of the bible - yet also claims to be humble? For I call that person out to be the hypocrate that they are.

No - we need not look to old ways as the path forward and the scripts of doom. While human nature may not change - our awareness of it does. The fact that back when Alexander wrote that - it was original, it was pure enlightenment thought - reserved only for those who would have been able to read(not so many)and be educated meant that the masses would not be aware of such theory. Today you just made thousands aware with this simple post. As such, thousands are now aware of the dangerous road and can CHOOSE which path to go down(and being selfish - I choose to skip the crappy parts).

Not without God gracing me with the ability!

as far as the nation goes, it starts with each individual believer. Then it extends to the local assembly of believers, and beyond.

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

I believe that Americans

I believe that Americans cannot come to terms with their true predicament without a total collapse. Man learns through suffering. There will come a time when things that don't matter are stripped away. That will be the awakening. The cycle was theorized in the 18th century, before mass media, the internet and more than 200 years of American history as background. We can do this.

an old RHCP song comes to

an old RHCP song comes to mind
http://youtu.be/GNDt5IFecpo
Look inside yourself and put not your faith in others.

Lasting Liberty

Do you want Liberty that lasts? ?????

http://www.LastingLiberty.org

Lasting Liberty

“Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for Liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free Constitution is pure Virtue, and if this cannot be inspired into our People in a greater Measure than they have it now, They may change their Rulers and the forms of Government, but they will not obtain a lasting Liberty. They will only exchange Tyrants and Tyrannies.”

~ John Adams
Letter to Zabdiel Adams (21 June 1776)

“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” ~ James Madison

“And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.” Psalms 119:45 (KJB)

---------------------------------------------------------------

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow
the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all
conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms
have prepared their own downfall by so doing."

- Adolph Hitler

http://www.GunIntel.com

Seek_Truth

Tytler? Really? Who give a rat's A**?

You are going to take a guy that believed in socialist monarchies and oligarchy as a "lawgiver"?. His work was based on democracies like Athens and Rome, and while there were a few similarities, far from us - they had defined classes, slaves, demigod rule, etc....

Please provide backup for the cycle, and I'll give it a chance.

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

True Liberty

You Sir are either ignorant or liying...

We have classes... we have slaves... and we have demigod rulers...

We are doomed... without true Liberty

Seek_Truth

And....

The back up?? The historical relationship??

Thought so....

That's OK. You probably believe the old "moral depravity" argument for the end of empires.

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

My Epiphany

As I waited 12/21/12 for a possible shift in consciousness this came to me. Although I have serious reservations with some of the info at this time the overall premise changed my outlook completely.

http://jahtruth.net/plan.htm

"Its easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."
Mark Twain

Could you change the background?

The background colour of blue is very hard to read. Just black on white is much better. Thanks.

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

The Revolution won't fail

but the government will fall - and that's when we win!

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

I do not agree. I am optimistic about our future.

This is what I tell myself:

1- I am awake thanks to Ron Paul.
2- If I can wake up, so can anyone else.
3- If Ron Paul can teach these principles so can I.
4- Accept that there will always be parasites trying to control others by using the rule of law to their benefit. The "other side" (anti-freedom ilk) will always be there because some people want to enjoy their freedom at the expense of the freedom of others and do not have a problem grouping up in ass kissing hierarchies like the Masons, Opus Dei, etc..

Time is on our side. I refuse to give up.

www.youtube.com/truefictions

I try to change people every day. Do You?

Do you realise he is a Socialist?

Seems obvious to me..

His "good intentions" would enslave most of us.

www.youtube.com/truefictions

I try to change people every day. Do You?

You know what is so ignorant in this world?

In Ron Paul's world there is no socialist, republican, democrat, etc. He would simply allow people to be free as long as they do not hurt anyone by their actions. This allows people to accumulate wealth or not, and eliminates credit which is the ultimate corruption because it is the mechanism that allows borrowing to live beyond your means. The movie Avatar touched on the concept, but imagine a world where the banksters could not create money out of thin air and hold the entire world slave to debt. What you call socialism would simply be an amazing amount of abundance to feed, clothe and shelter all as a base of society. Anyone that wanted to attain more things and belongings would be welcome to do so, just not at the expense of the rest of their fellow human beings. If you cannot comprehend this, please ask and I will further elaborate.

beephree

Go for it. You can do it.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/add/forum

www.youtube.com/truefictions

I try to change people every day. Do You?

jrd3820's picture

Thanks for this link

I really enjoyed that video. Sometimes I do not make it through to the end of every video I click on here, but I was interested from beginning to end here. Thanks again.

I agree 100% with the op...

We're armed....so what!

The Feds are too...along with UN troops. They have armed drones. They have advanced crowd dispersion technology...some of which hasn't even been used yet. They have the Patriot Act and other laws to monitor every little thing we do. By the time we organize... they'll throw us in a camp and label us terrorists. They control the media...and will make revolutionaries look like "right wing religious kooks"...in an attempt to marginalize the movement. The odds are stacked in their favor. The control grid is in place and can be sprung on us in no time. Look at us in airports...we line up like cattle...and we allow them to treat us like criminals. That was just an experiment...but it goes a long way to show the mentality of the average Joe. We will willing submit for the illusion of safety...and they know this. Just wait. The next red flag event is coming.

The only way we win is if a majority of US Citizens stand up and say "no". 10% won't do it this time. My guess is that less than 1% of all US Citizens are "awake"...the rest are zombies. Let's say another 5% wake up...still not enough. People are in denial. People think they are free.

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
- President John F. Kennedy

So give up then? Nope...

Sit at home and hope we get a better opportunity 5 years down the road? Naive...

They are not giving us many choices, so people will create new ones.

You got all of that right except one..

People are already organized, but you're not really thinking that we have to all come together in one gigantic fighting force, are you. Many groups have seen this coming for a long while. Just because you're not aware of them, doesn't mean they don't exist.

You didn't think we were going to come together at the local parks exercising battle formations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_warfare

There are groups like Oathkeepers and military ranks are teeming with them. Even in police ranks, we have them.

It wouldn't be easy and yes people would be demonized...but the alternative is no Liberty.. There is no life without Liberty.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Hah!

What do you think our troops are doing and have done in Iraq/Afgahnistan/Pakistan/etc? They are battle-tested in Guerrilla warfare...that is how the "terrorists" fight afterall. UN Troops and the Feds have the firepower...technology...law and media. Like I said...it will take a majority of Americans to stand up and say "no"...otherwise the Militias and Oathkeepers will be taken to the woodshed. Don't be naive.

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
- President John F. Kennedy

You don't be naive..

The Militia's are full of OathKeepers which are training others and so on and so on..

I prefer the idea of small PatriotCells and or small sniper cells.. 1000's of them.

Sit at home and the rest of us will stand on principles to their final conclusions if needed. So go back to watching TV, all is well.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Thats easy

we are armed.

But will we be for long?

If Obama and his supporters have their way, all the guns will be in the hands of centralized government with the citizenry defenseless.

You can't tell me that under 12,000 firearm homicides a year with under 400 of those being committed with a rifle is sufficient danger to justify taking away semi-automatic rifles. The real reason is and always has been fear by politicians and bureaucrats of an armed, angry citizenry.

How totally irrational it is to be afraid of guns; almost any other cause of the 2,400,000 deaths each year is a greater risk to you, except maybe being struck by a meteorite.

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.

Sooooo outnumbered

315,068,000 people in the USA [Dec 2012]

Subtract 26%. [26% polled said our economy is in good shape] Liberals eh?

Just the # of hunting licence bought in the Northern Midwestern states alone number larger than any standing army. How many do you think have a gun but don't hunt in just those states? Not counting the entire Western US or all those pick up trucks across the South with the gun holders in the rear window, right behind the dog! There's a quiet majority out there who are just waiting to see what happens. They aren't active politically, just want to be left alone on their property, in their homes, doing what they feel they are entitled to do. The only 'talking' they will do and only when pushed, will be through the long narrow metal bull horn of their 16 gauge.

Deekey

No.7's picture

I disagree with your signature

Liberty is given to us by God. He did create us with free will didn't He? He didn't stop Eve from eating of the Tree in the midst of the garden.

"Endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights... ... Among these are Life,Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

Liberty is taken by Governments and evil individuals.

I totally agree with the comment however. +1

The individual who refuses to defend his rights when called by his Government, deserves to be a slave, and must be punished as an enemy of his country and friend to her foe. - Andrew Jackson

Yeah and?

From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to selfishness;
From selfishness to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage.

Rinse and repeat. What cycle do you think we're on now?

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.