-70 votes

Vote Barack Obama;your very survival might depend on it!

First, I want to say this... I am not a troll.

I voted for Paul as far back as 88. I've been with this forum since 2007. I was even an RP delegate in 2008. Some of you might know me as a Liberal. I do not consider myself a libertarian.I am a socialist. I like Dr. Paul but I also like Lyndon LaRouche, Webster Tarpley and Bernie Sanders. I was one of the first to join the tea party and then I left it when I saw it was being hijacked by the Republican Party now I consider myself part of the Occupy Movement.

Some of you might wonder why I was even a part of this movement being a liberal and all but there are a lot of ideas that liberals and Democrats found very attractive about being a part of this movement. For instance,ending the drug wars, foreign intervention and ending the Fed these are all changes that I and others like myself have been able to get behind and support. I have even campaigned for Dr. Paul within the Occupy movement, so please don't hate.

These last few years have been very tough for me as I'm sure have been very tough for some of you.I have seen my business go under lost my home and ended a marriage. Of course I realize that failure is just as much a part of capitalism as is success and I hold no one responsible except myself. What bothered me is to see the crooked bansters and the 1% get bailed out time and time again while I have dropped out of the middle class and into the underclass{I have spent many nights living in my car}. This is why I have supported Dr. Paul because I know he would've put an end to this type of crony capitalism.

Well I am also a realist and realize that Dr. Paul is not going to be elected so I figure "if you can't beat them ,then why not join them".Meaning, being a veteran I have enrolled in a socialist program sponsored by the federal government that will pay me to go back to school. It will pay for my school and pay me 1400 a month in my pocket. I never made this kind of scratch busting my hump in the Navy working on aircraft carriers and driving supply trucks to Iraq.But I figure if Mitt Romney and the Cokehead brothers can hide their money in offshore accounts then why shouldn't I be able to get a government handout. Even Dr. Paul collects his Social Security check. Okay, so I might be a socialist but I am certainly not a hypocrite and I believe if I am able to get help from the federal government then I also believe others that have found themselves in an unfortunate situation should be able to get help from the government also. This is why I am voting for Barack Obama, and now I am going to explain to you why YOU are going to vote for Barack Obama.

If mittens and wrong Paul were to be elected in 2012 all these programs would end. But that is not the first thing that the RNC are going to go after. Once the RNC gets back into power the first thing that they are going to go after is going to be YOU and I mean you being the Ron Paul movement. These fascist are capable of anything and they will be OUT FOR BLOOD. They are going to put all of you on terrorist watch lists and tax audits,they know who you are and they know where you live. You have burned your bridges in Tampa and don't think they are not capable of doing this, just ask the unfortunate veteran who recently wound up in the mental ward.

Do not take my advice lightly, this election is going to be very very close and the fascist are going to spend billions to get back into power. You cannot afford to throw away your vote on Gary Johnson.Your very own survival might depend on Barack Obama being elected.

Thanks and I love you all, Lance

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I think that is a sign. Note

I think that is a sign. Note that even Obama has called for a reduction in tax cuts to the middle class, a reduction in welfare, medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security. That is what the higher-ups want.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

I think that is a sign. Note

I think that is a sign. Note that even Obama has called for a reduction in tax cuts to the middle class, a reduction in welfare, medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security. That is what the higher-ups want.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

Here's what's going to happen though...

All of the places that effect the lower income class to the elderly will be the ones to get hit the hardest. Taxes won't be reduced.. We'll get a song and dance about so and so is blocking us.. yada yada..

That's what they're doing all over Europe, I believe. Programs are getting cut and that's about it.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

I think the difference is

I think the difference is that in Europe, for the most part, the middle-class deserves to get programs and services cut and have their taxes raised.

The Greece and the French, for example, have been underfunding their pension systems for years. In the US, SS has been overfunded; politiciasn just keep stealing from it. In Europe, they tax businesses and the rich fairly heavily. In Italy, for example, people simply don't work as much as they need to.

Part of it is because Europe has more of a Democracy..majority rules, and the majority (the average guy) punishes the money-makers. They have a lot less corporate welfare and a government that is at best, neutral with business. The burden has been placed on the top; now it needs to spread to the bottom.

In America, it has been the opposite for 30+ years. The bottom gets squeezed while the richest Americans enjoy all the benefits.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

I'm for zero tax really. You guys wanna pay, you're welcome to

but I sure don't buy that one group deserves to pay more because they can. I personally would like to see local and state governments ran by volunteers as well as local government services as well. That will never happen I'm sure lol.

At this point, I'm working myself into a position where I won't have to pay taxes other than sales tax on hat I buy. I think people are trapped by the system by their own making. I'm opting out.

I think more should live below their means where they can afford to be independent.

It's late here and I'm tired. I'll pick this up tomorrow maybe.

Later.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

When you have zero taxes, you

When you have zero taxes, you have zero government spending, and that is what I am not for.

No military, no defense? That alone is a nightmare.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

That's incorrect.

We don't need but a fraction of what we have for defense. No nation in the world would attack us if we were armed to the teeth as a people. And so you know.. There are things set in the Constitution for just such occasions.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

So what is that number, and

So what is that number, and how would you like to pay for it?

Let us not forget that at minimum, you would need about 300 billion to service the debt, 100 billion to service veterans, and 50 billion for paid-in unemployment.

If we were armed to the teeth as people? Gun ownership is already really high. And it doesn't matter how armed a million individuals are; they can't stop a nuclear bomb...

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

1/10th what we spend now and revamping instead of manufacturing

new nukes. Cutting our fighting force.

How many nukes do we need to defend against a nuclear attack.

Oh and how do we pay for it? Not by mandating it from the population. Like I said the Constitution tells you how.

Go read it and get back to me.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

I am looking at the 16th

I am looking at the 16th amendment that allows for an income tax.

1/10th of what we spend? You want to spend 80 billion on defense? That is it? Germany spends more than that. FRANCE spends more than that.

In 1796, the founders collected what today would be the equivalent of 600 billion dollars in taxes, of which around 200 billion went to the military.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

You should really look into what income is defined as

by the "Supreme Courts" and historically.

Oh btw.. This isn't keeping up with the Jones's..

Name countries that have less than us in nukes and spend less money than we do to defend themselves. Can you do that?

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

i hope you do

and i hope you make a separate topic for it.

"The two weakest arguments for any issue on the House floor are moral and constitutional"
Ron Paul

It was really late here and I didn't make the connection but it

is somewhat connected. If we do as he say.. pay in to SS by force and never take back, it becomes a tax upon us. That to me would go against my beliefs.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

ss has never been

anything but a tax, helvering v. davis.

i'd be interested in some of your ideas from your previous post and i thought it sounded like a solid topic on it's own.

"The two weakest arguments for any issue on the House floor are moral and constitutional"
Ron Paul

True, because the money we pay in, doesn't go directly to our

benefit, but to others as well.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

I hate taxes too

But i realize some taxation is necessary. The income tax is the completely wrong approach. End-user taxes would be a fairer way to do it. They are always clubbing us over the head with the "don't you like having roads" issue. Simply make the people that are using roads pay for them. Tax things on the consumption end, not the production end.

Why?

Government isn't a necessary evil it is necessarily evil.

Only in a fairy tale did Giles of Ham tame the Dragon of government and use it to advantage.

If the government wants to do something let them hold a Money Bomb or a Telethon and see who chips in.

Otherwise quit stealing the fruits of my labors! Government didn't make it why are they demanding a cut.

End user fees in a monopoly system (without competition) are always excessive.

Have you noticed that some promote government monopolies while reviling private monopolies which never survive in a competitive market.

Free includes debt-free!

Sorry, I'm out on that!

No cando!

Tom W.

yea Ron Paul gets a social

yea Ron Paul gets a social security check,,, but he also pays into to it more than he will ever get out. so by collecting the check he is getting back some of the money he is forced to pay by the thugs. now do you pay in to the federal handout system? I doubt it and if you did or do why don't you believe in not giving it to a government who tells you how to spend it instead of you choosing how to spend it. welfare seems to fall in to a couple of groups of people who are very lazy,unhealthy or stupid to know how to invest or save. what one are you?

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◥⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙◤..

perhaps I fall into the stupid category.

Not everyone succeeds in capitalism I didn't. I know I am not lazy and I do take care of myself. I have never collected anything from the government until now. I am trying to succeed that's why I'm going back to school to finish my nursing degree. Not all of us are as bright and successful as you might be. Right now I'm taking care of three kids that are not even mine. Their mother is on drugs and if it wasn't for me and my family these three children would be out on the streets. Perhaps I also measure success in other ways besides monetary gain. Our children do not get to choose whether they are libertarians are liberals or whatever.what happens to these children if our social programs are cut off from them. Well it is something to consider.

We only have your word for how productive you were in life.

Maybe you could do with less.. Maybe if the government did what we asked them to, you might not be failing in what you deem falsely as capitalism. You'd have more money but that would still mean you'd have to be responsible enough to live below your means, save money to put back and take care of yourself entirely. It might also mean people would have to band together as families and communities locally, acting upon free association to help one another out. That strengthens communities the way they should be strengthened.
It's not up to the whole nation to support your area or your kid if they choose not to.

I've met thousands of people in my lifetime and rarely did I find someone that was a real worker. People usually have fucked up perceptions of self.

In my last year of business, I bet I went through 10 people before I found someone that was willing to show up on time and give an honest days work.. Hell just getting them to come in on time was a feat.

I also part jobs out on a job to job basis as I need them when I don't have someone to work and I've had times where I'd run a newspaper where I'd get as many as 15 people calling in that would refuse the job, never show up after saying they would to where I'd have to do the job myself. Some of the jobs paid around 300 for about 10 hours of work.. No takers.

I even have issues with people that I want to buy stuff from just not returning calls to sell their product.

Could you imagine what toll this would take on the national economy if this were happening on a large enough scale? I know for sure I'm not the only one experiencing this because my business sells to other businesses. We talk.

I've come to the conclusion over time that people say they want to work and sell their stuff but they really don't. They want the easiest way to their dollar... if that means sitting home and collecting a check and making up excuses or justifications.. well that's a whole lot easier than the truth of actually grinding it out everyday.

That's why socialism is so appealing.. it's utopia except people don't understand or ignore the price of life handed to you on a platter.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Look you sound like a very successful guy.

And believe it or not I once ran a very successful business like you. I was and satellite business. I worked very hard at it. And met with great success until about 2007.

If you do not know the satellite business I can tell you that is actually a Ponzi scheme. As an owner you purchase the satellites and then put them up in a customers house for free and then you are reimbursed by the satellite company.

And then you are held responsible for those satellites for one or two years until your customers pay what the satellite company paid you to install them. This was very lucrative for me until about 2007. That year my customers stopped paying their satellite bills because because they were losing their jobs and had to pay their mortgages before they could pay for any luxuries.

This left me holding the bag for the satellite programs that were not being paid. I continued to get what was called chargebacks. All the money that I had made installing them was chargeback to my account and when I finally became aware that I had $30,000 in chargeback fees. That I could not pay for.

Now I'm not telling you the story because I want you to feel sorry for me in any way it was my fault that I was a lousy businessman and didn't realize what was happening it was a lesson I had to learn the hard way. I failed but it was not because I was lazy it was not because I didn't go out and work every day and try to make a success of myself it was because possibly I was too too stupid to realize something like this could actually happen. But in 2007 it did.

And in 2008 I had lost everything and had to start all over. Since then I have not been able to secure study work but I have managed to go out and find part-time work whenever I can.sometimes these things just happen no matter how hard you work or how hard you try.

Capitalism will fail for some people I hope I just hope that for your sake something like this never happens to you because it's a nightmare. But it can actually happen.

I'm not complaining as a matter fact it's been good for me to fail as I feel it will help me be successful in the future. My fear is not sure myself I just actually feel that jobs are becoming obsolete in a certain way and kids and others like me have just not been trained or smart enough to be entrepreneurs like you.

Does this mean that society owes me a living because I have failed. No but could society benefit from those of us who cannot find work to be retrained in this society and be given another opportunity to succeed through government training. Yes I do believe that.

I am actually afraid that one day more and more of us will wake up to the possibility that free market capitalism just will not provide all the jobs we need and that some form of government control has to become a reality.

And as a society does it benefit you to have more and more people around you not being able to work and find jobs. I'm not knocking anything that you do but there are actually a lot of people out there who just are not able to find job work.

Especially homeless vets like I have been. I'm not knocking anything you're telling me in and one day I hope to be a successful is you are that's why I'm trying to better myself by enrolling in this government program so I can retrain myself were good job.

Has free-market capitalism reached a point where there are are just not enough jobs for everyone to have possibly. That's why I feel the government should provide more public service jobs to rebuild our infrastructure. Any way just my humble opinion.

The Federal Reserve caused this mal-investment.

You worked hard but the game was rigged. It wasn't the free market that failed, and you didn't fail. But government has broken the prices structures of goods and services leaving you to pilot your business in the dark. Flying IFR using the governments "data" hides the mal-investment made.

http://pricedingold.com/us-wages/

My first job was flipping burgers at Minimum wage in 1971 and I earned $1.25 the equivalent of 1.3 grams of Gold.

To make an equivalent wage today would be $75/hour.

Looking at Silver that would have been 5 silver quarters with a melt value today of $29/hour.

In 1910 a weeks labor wage was 5 silver dollars. The equivalent melt value today of $123 in 1910, no taxes applied.

I ran a business for a decade. There was about 5,000 sqft in five computer shops in the County and we made a living. Then BAM there was 40,000 sqpft of BestBuys and Staples grown on cheap credit and IRS regulation changes in the accounting on sq footage. We lost in 2003, even though we ran a tight ship and had a good reputation with customers.

We tried to use our elastic fiat money as a basis for economic calculation. It is pointless to blame the Fed. I screwed up so I failed.

Economic calculations must consider that the FED has increased the money supply 9% per year, every year since 1914.

All three candidates need this system (The Fed) to capitalize their big government plans. Their plans come before workers or employers interests.

When I can vote against big government and it's support system, I will.

Currently that option is not available.

Free includes debt-free!

I'm not sure, someone like yourself that benefits from

government handouts and thinks society should fund parts of your life, will ever understand the wrongness of those thoughts nor understand that this is not a free market.

I mean we can point to history but people like you shrug it off because you really don't want the truth.

What you were in was a corporate ponzi scheme.. That's kind of like trying to make your living off of gambling when the house always wins. Some people do better at the odds than others.

Am I successful? Not really.. Relatively speaking, sure, but this economy that has been drained of life by Keynesian "philosophers", socialistic politicians and Crony Capitalism has stripped the Free from the free market.

Lets do this another way.. I could talk till I'm blue in the face and you'll either not get it or refuse to so I ask this.

Why do you think that I should have to pay for your education?

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Well I believe it would be an overall

benifit to society to have me retrained then to have me fall through the cracks . I mean perhaps I would become desparate and resort to violence in order to survive.And then you would end up paying me anyway when I would have to resort to crime.In order to survive.Not saying I would ever resort to crime but were you the one who had all his money stolen in a hotel room? Perhaps if those there had uneployment was more controlled by goverment programs that would have never happened.

sounds like

extortion to me.
i'd rather you turn to crime.
i know how you'll leave my house.

"The two weakest arguments for any issue on the House floor are moral and constitutional"
Ron Paul

and Im referring to

Paul S here.

So you think it's okay to use the government to force someone

who doesn't want to pay for your education to do so?

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Yes thats what goverment has always done

That is why George Washington violently put down the whiskey tax rebellion.

If you think that's okay, how do you think you're going to

build bridges here, in a place that looks upon those words as sickening and violent.

BTW.. Thomas Jefferson's "republican party" opposed it and it was overturned.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.