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Has Porniah Been Used To Destroy Liberty In America? Is Pornography The Road to


Has Porniah Been Used To Destroy Liberty In America?
Has the Porn Industry set Liberty back with the help of the...

"WARNING This article contains information targeting married couples and mature teenagers. You should read it first and then decide if you want your children to read it. Be prepared to answer their questions................"

READ THE REST HERE: http://libertychatter.com/is-pornography-the-road-to-hell-ha...

Many comments have been made by people who have obviously[as is plainly evident] not read the article. It is not about "Banning" anyhting.. or makeing any "Laws" agianst anything... It is an apeal to reason.

Think about it. The sky is blue people! The sky is blue!

:-) lol

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I bet the knucklehead who wrote that has a huge porn stash.

That or he's melting down his ISP with it.

Anyone THAT against something, and so descriptive about how evil it is, is nearly 100% likely to be guilty of what he decries.


If one of your fellow adult citizens wants to watch other consenting fellow adult citizens having sex with one another, it's really NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. Why is this thread even HERE? THis ain't the daily Santorum or Romney. GTFO with this nonsense. We here are about liberty. If you can't accept that other people do not have the same moral compass you have then please take a ride to the moon with ol Newt Gingrich and start your wild theocracy colony there please. kthxbye.

Judith reisman did the most

Judith reisman did the most thorough study of porn. A congressional study. Everyone should know who she is and the real history of Kinsey. She found porn is harmful. Also found Sodomites have a mental problem. .

It's hard to believe that

It's hard to believe that we've gotten to the point of having mobs claiming that lust and porn - which means whores in greek, is healthy.

Back in the day, people knew they had vices, but they didn't pretend they were healthy. This is like the sodomites in the Bible that wanted to gang rape the angels of the Lord.

But you'll be glad to know, its not natural decadence. It's been social engineered that way to cause a quicker fall.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Despite your holier than thou attitude

I think you may have a point. A theory of mine is that the influence of cultural leftism in past decades has social engineered people's gender identities away from their natural inclinations, which leftist sociologists deny exist. Men have become more feminine and women more masculine overall (talking in generalities, obviously there are exceptions.) This is why 'pick up artistry' and things like that have been popular on the net recently. Many men are realizing that contrary to what the media tells us, women actually are still attracted to more masculine, dominant men. And dudes are trying to reconnect with that suppressed part of themselves. I've also seen stuff where women who've had trouble in the dating market are also trying to rediscover femininity to make themselves more attractive to men and foster healthier relationships than what they've been experiencing. It's obvious that gender relations have broken down when you look at the high divorce rates in recent decades as compared to times before the growth of big government & with it feminism funded via the state.

So I think the popularity of pornography could be a symptom of the fact that men & women are not connecting romantically and sexually in real life because the chemistry is off due to the social engineering away from traditional gender roles. Science is increasingly showing that gender characteristics are inherent rather than 'socially constructed' as feminists and left wing sociologists would have us believe. But if that's true it's not porno itself that's the problem, it's a symptom of the breakdown of relationships between men in women that has fostered it's increased popularity.

I think that social conservatism and social leftism/cultural Marxism are both repressive. They both demonize heterosexuality in different ways. Religious conservatives are anti-sex across the board, and then we're shocked when all these Catholic priests are revealed to be sickly perverted individuals. But what did you expect from a man who's sworn off romantic relations with women, the greatest pleasure life has to offer? Organized religion and well as statism both infantilize people's minds, hinder them from maturing, and then we wonder why we have all these adult babies running around. Trying to arrest everyone for everything and calling for more wars and bigger government. They're like little kids in school who enjoy tattling on people. These institutions and ideologies keep people away from introspection and realizing who they are and what they want out of life. And so you have a society of neurotic people which manifests itself in a variety of ways.

This will be used as another

This will be used as another excuse to monitor everyone's computer. What kind of new bureaucracy will have to be created to enforce this? How much will it cost? Who will we borrow the money from? Or are they planning to print up a fresh new batch...

The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. - Heinlein

Is Porn Liberty or Slavery?

Well if you had read the article.... haummm... you would now that it mentions nowhere about aking a new law or enforceing anyhting... or monitoring anyhting...

It talks about getting right with God. Whom we are accaountable to on the Day of judgment... you know being self governed...

Kinda wish people would read the article first before they start spouting....
Open your mind... Seek Truth... Look at all the facts...

Is Porn Liberty or Slavery?

We promote Self Government!

Do you have a conscience ?

“Those who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.” –William Penn

Thank you for responding though.

Now let the rotten fruit fly.


Cyril's picture

Liberty or Slavery ? You could ask the same question about food

You could ask the same question about food.

The answer, I suspect, would be the same :


You are free to enjoy food in always reasonable ways or to take the risk to get addicted to it so bad that it'd be in an unrecoverable way.

Either way, it's your choice, and whether you waste your life with it or not, it's nobody else's business as long as you don't try to force your behavior (complete abstinence for this or that, or unleashed over consumption) onto others.

(And that you don't tamper with other natural rights, infriging on other people's; e.g., talking about it or associating with other people, to preach for, or to oppose to, etc)

The essence of Liberty above Freedoms.


Meh. [removed]

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.


"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

What I meant by the reply is

What I meant by the reply is that enforcing any new law requires new money to be spent and a new bureaucracy to manage the spending. This new government function inevitably seeks to solidify its position and to grow into new areas of responsibility. I am not making a judgement on the right or wrong of porn, but simply questioning the cost of yet another new area for central government to grow into.


The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. - Heinlein

Nevermind all those FACTS

Nevermind all those FACTS cobaltz. The Dept of Homeland Religious Enforcement will take care of it all. Seriously, why can't Christians just act like Christ instead of burning all their bridges to the lost with their Pharisaical flamethrowers?? Just leave them alone! Be a light unto them....and that doesn't mean a Maglite upside their head if they choose not to follow in your footsteps. THAT is how Dr. Paul would handle this.


Porn and football.

Cyril's picture

Wrong. Soccer and cheese.


Soccer and cheese.

And wine.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.


"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Cyril's picture

I was pretty sure this thread wouldn't lead anywhere

I was pretty sure this thread wouldn't lead anywhere, though I tried to help, from the beginning.

Folks who really care : just so you know, it's quite a lot about opposing Religion or Faith against Pornography so far.

Yeah right. Either of these is so much worrisome compared to other issues, maybe worth considering, too. Or as far as HUMANE values and HUMANITY are concerned in the society, anyway. I thought it was the case, on topic. Seems like I was wrong.

So, well : you're WARNED now and ... Your Mileage MAY Vary !

"Have a nice one" if I dare say,



Oh well. I can't add anything here, after James, anyway.

James 3:7-9

"For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind, but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God."

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.


"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Can you show me a quote by Jesus where he mentions hell?

Hell was invented by people.

It isn't even in the Bible.

Neither is the rapture for that matter.

It's all "interpreted."

That's the problem.

Instead of teaching people WHY they should live rightly - showing them the good results that come from certain behaviors and the bad results that come from others - they lacked imagination in reality and so delved into the fantasy of "hell."

Hell is a concept for someone who cannot reason.

If you can reason - you don't even need to consider hell. You'll find enough cause to behave long before you ever fail to get there.

Cyril's picture


(To answer your question)

Matthew 10:27-29

"What I tell ​YOU​ in the darkness, say in the light; and what ​YOU​ hear whispered, preach from the housetops. And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Ge‧hen′na."

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.


"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Sounds like a typical day at the workplace.

Did Matthew work in sales?

Cyril's picture

LOL I take it as a rhetorical

LOL I take it as a rhetorical question. :)

Because, well, reportedly, our dear Matthew was the one being a tax collector among Jesus' apostles.

What does that tell you ? ;)

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.


"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Perhaps you should research Ge hen'na then.


Cyril's picture

You think I didn't ?

You think I didn't ?

Which one among the dozen distinct published interpretations you think is the one I embrace ? (if any)

Put differently :

Which one would you go for ?

(I ask genuinely out of curiosity.)

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.


"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

The ones that show Ge Hen'na is "the Valley of Hinnom"

That it is a physical place on Earth.

It is not "hell."

It was a garbage dump outside the city of Jerusalem where trash was burned. Because there was always garbage, the fire "never extinguished."

People who were thought to be sinners when they died, especially those who committed suicide, were dumped there to either rot or burn.

In Jesus' time, the ultimate punishment issue by the Sanhedrin was to dump your body there after you were stoned to death.

He wasn't warning you of eternal damnation, he was warning you of the ultimate Earthly punishment.

Christians didn't invent Hell though.

There were similar concepts LONG before even Judaism came along.

And this ties back to why Jesus' admonition was so pointed - people then believed as other pagans believed - that there was an "afterlife" but that you needed your body to get there. If your body rotted, or was burned, you could not be "resurrected" into the "afterlife."

The ancient Egyptians followed similar practices.

Reading the Bible out of the context of the period in which it was written leads to very bad assumptions and conclusions - kind of like reading the Constitution out of context of what the Founders and People believed at the time when they wrote it.

Cyril's picture

Interesting.I won't disclose


I won't disclose here my full interpretation of Gehenna, because that'd be lengthy, boring, and really off topic.


Quite a good point you make re: the parallel with interpretating the founders constitution.

Bouncing on that, since it is less subject to controversy (doesn't involve religious faith nor very specific beliefs, just shared common sense for positive values, and our general state of knowledge about where various texts come from) :

you must know of course this Washington quote, which says, roughly:

"Government is like fire; it is a dangerous servant and a fierceful master."

He said that in his time context, probably out of wisdom of the previous ages. Isn't it true that we can especially relate to it today, in 2012, in the light of what we know now better about what happened all throughout the 20th c. ?

Likewise, could that be that some recent, new interpretations of the bible would make us understand it (somehow) better after centuries of religious wars before the 20th c. ?

Something I like to ponder about. YMMV.

You might want to see my comment "Insights" in reply to Mr. Lundgren below for some background info on my introspective reflections in that topic range. If they don't make sense at all, you'll probably have better to do with your time and brain-CPU. ;) esp. as it is so very speculative, anyway. I suppose everybody can agree on that, at least.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.


"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

I'll check out your stuff below - thanks.

As for new interpretations helping us understand something better - no, I don't see either of these two issue like that.

What I see is that we get back to the original - that is what helps us understand.

If whatever our understanding is, if it doesn't include and is not based on the original meaning and context, then it isn't the correct one. We might as well just write something else and deal with that.

Now, that doesn't mean we can't get something positive out of an errant interpretation, but that doesn't mean what we get out of it, was what that original work was about or meant to deliver to us. To ascribe such a meaning to either document (or any) in such a fashion would be a gross error, and may in some cases, even a perversion of the original meaning and intent.

Current circumstances can certainly reinforce an idea long held, or can provide us with our own context to understand something older, but they don't really give us "new" meaning to something. They just make it relevant to us now.

Cyril's picture

One does exactly that

"What I see is that we get back to the original - that is what helps us understand."

One of the new interpretations of the Bible I alluded to, does exactly that, as a matter of fact. Thoroughly. Even, all of the forbidden occurrences of some words / nouns / phrasings that had been stripped out in most if not all other versions, in some way or another, are restored directly from the oldest / earliest ... Greek versions written after the apostles' accounts.

Thus, that's indeed one way to get "a new interpretation" : to get back to the source and leave the accumulated garbage out.

That interpretation isn't mainstream and is especially under sustained (thank God, mostly theological only) attack by all of the other mainstream churches (*).

Hence my attention.

Thanks for sharing.

(*) (all those you hear about on the MSM "news" more or less regularly; I'm not even talking about the TV evangelists and other "your-bank-account-based"-sects, of course)

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.


"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Cyril's picture

Well, I hope I can reason with you

Well, I hope I can reason with you.

I agree, from my point of view, Hell as "a location", seems like an artifact made a posteriori by and for the various churches' religious practices, when not downright superstitious.

In fact, you have different names for, say, rather, the concept of "Hell" as found in the bible, one of the most well known being "oblivion".

I'm no theologist, but in my personal faith, oblivion is ... well... what it means : what once existed which is no more. The absolute void, as opposed to what is hoped for after the Return of the Lord (for those who believe they can be saved if they have faith and love in Him, anyway).

Of course, if you're in a Christian church which forces upon you only one interpretation, or "better"/"worse" (you pick) yet, not even a believer, I'd say : it's not something on which you're going to reflect much, probably. Because, either : you have to take it for granted, or plain irrelevant. Or what did I miss ?

The 3rd option (maybe there are others?) which I chose, is to make for my own personal, intimate interpretation, which I won't share beyond what I wrote already. And which is something that you reflect about, in your own faith, pretty much for all the rest of your life. YMMV.

Now, if one insists on having me define Hell as a very bad place that the believer doesn't quite enjoy being at, and distinct from the "oblivion" ... I'd go for Hell being earth in the regions and times where it's inhabited by man with complete indifference for other human beings life. Not even hate : if you can hate, you can love.

Indifference is oblivion in one's heart.

E.g., you have "bits" of Hell in Washington D.C., right now as I'm typing this. You don't want to be there and witness what's happening over there. Many other locations, too, sure.

But again, it's just Hell on earth.

Now I probably don't make sense but for myself. Although, since you asked...

Anyway, you can sum up the rationale for my faith with Pascal's Wager. It had nothing to do with my education neither at home, or at school, and even less in the society. It was a conscious, very personal, intimate endeavor, in my case. And I think Jesus mentioned several times it ought to be that way for some (not all) of us, anyway (in parables).

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.


"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Yes, this is where the concept of hell came from, but that

doesn't mean it's anything more than a "device" that was invented to brow beat people into submission when you don't have a rational argument.

The use of it employs FEAR rather than reason.

That is the problem.

Cyril's picture

Out of my own belief system

"The use of it employs FEAR rather than reason.

That is the problem."

Well, yes, I agree, using fear about it, is completely out of, at the exact opposite of my own belief system. I cannot but only condemn that.

Pascal's Wager is not about fear ; it is about everything to gain vs. losing nothing.

False Religions very often use fear to impose themselves and their rituals.

Just like I cannot but condemn killing to steal someone else's property.

Or by contempt for another race or by hatred for another person's views.

What can I say more ?

I'm no churchman. Just a believer.

John's Revelation 22:17

And the spirit and the bride keep on saying: “Come!” And let anyone hearing say: “Come!” And let anyone thirsting come; let anyone that wishes take life’s water free.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.


"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Fantastic idea!

Let's support the idea of liberty by restricting it because morally you don't agree with it based off of your own religion.

How about we do a little tit for tat? You restrict something I like and I'll restrict something you like and we'll keep going until neither of us have anything left.

Sound good?

...Christians...sometimes you wonder if they actually believe in the Bible - you'll never get people to come your way by such forceful and hateful ways. You'll only end up pushing people away.

Your strawman won't work...

Its a funny thing... where in the article does it talk about banning anything? no where
Making a new Law about something? no where
Forceing anyone to do anything? no where

Does it apeal to your mind and reason? Yes

Your strawman won't work...


Thank you.


That was my point

This article merely advocates morality. It does not call for more rules, laws, or sanctions... merely it is a call to the faithful imo to do some serious thinking about the damage pornography causes. Basically, to reinforce truths about relationships.

Here is a hint. When David committed adultery with Bathsheba, that was the beginning of David's fall. Once sexual immorality got an inch, it took a mile within the royal court. Of course, the first born was taken by God so that it would not have to live the shameful life of being an illegitimate kid (ie God wanted to preserve the legitimacy of the Davidic line for the Messiah, Jesus). After that, you had the rape of Tabar, and then Absalom rebelled due to David's ineffectual dealings with the rape of his full blooded sister. (Amnon her half brother and oldest son of David raped her). We see from this how sexual immorality can spiral out of control. It eventually led to the death of Absalom.

Porno is Greek means evil. I wonder how it got that name?

May the LORD bless you and keep you
May the LORD make His face shed light upon you and be gracious unto you
May the LORD lift up His face unto you and give you peace
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